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So I made level 50
annemarie30
Member Posts: 2,698 Arc User
I was flying BoPs until I got to general, and I chose a vo'quv.
now I am faced with the choices of tier 5. I like the looks of the K'tinga retrofit, and I am toying with a Neg'var in fact I have the field narrowed to 4,
the Karfi, which may be redundant considering I have a Vo'quv,
The Neg'var,
The K'tinga
and a B'rel retrofit, for the "submarine" ability.
so matching the Karfi to the Vo'quv, is there a reason to switch?
is there an appreciable difference between the K'Tinga vs the Neg'var? (aside from turn rate)
and can the B'rel actually do decent DPS as a torpedo boat?
now I am faced with the choices of tier 5. I like the looks of the K'tinga retrofit, and I am toying with a Neg'var in fact I have the field narrowed to 4,
the Karfi, which may be redundant considering I have a Vo'quv,
The Neg'var,
The K'tinga
and a B'rel retrofit, for the "submarine" ability.
so matching the Karfi to the Vo'quv, is there a reason to switch?
is there an appreciable difference between the K'Tinga vs the Neg'var? (aside from turn rate)
and can the B'rel actually do decent DPS as a torpedo boat?
We Want Vic Fontaine
Post edited by annemarie30 on
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Voquv and Karfi are as different as they come, one is a science/eng boat depending on variant, the other tac boat. The only common aspect is they can both carry pets. Brel is a torp boat. Others are eng boats. Karfi for highest dps. Ktinga/Neg'var for tanking.
With the B'rel, you can do decent DPS. I can steal aggro on the Tactical Cube in ISE. I've gotten #3 on Crystalline Catastrophe a couple times in my B'rel, and I just started doing that one. Oh, and I slot a Science BOFF in the Commander seat & still manage to do okay with the DPS.
It used to be better, but they've hit kinetic damage a lot. The game is not made for Torpedo Boats, though you can still make it work pretty well. And with Transphasics, most of the setup is "free" - just run the Breen missions until you have what you want.
If you like BoPs, then the B'rel is almost a must-have, but you have to like that kind of game. It's not the Negh'var game, and it's not the Scimitar game for sure.
I don't set out to do DPS in my B'rel because a lot of DPS = a lot of stuff coming back at me. It just kind of happens, though.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
That said, the B'rel can be a very fun PVE boat. You'll have issues with torps getting shot down if you use destructibles against certain enemies, but that is easy enough to deal with. I used to use a torp build for PvP as well, but the game has mostly passed that by.
If you mean about 5k roughly, yes, it can indeed. If you mean like 10k or more? Maybe, I haven't reached that point myself (not really focused on high DPS on my B'rel, mostly spike damage), but possibly.
My B'rel usually parses between 6-7.5k depending on how I do. But a B'rel torp boat (I'm using transphasics, so results may vary if using other types) is a true case of squeezing the figurative stone to get water.
You REALLY have to look at every source of damage you can. Thankfully, Klingons do have one big advantage Feds don't: Easy access to Nausicaan BOFFs. Seriously, 2 or 3 of those really help out. Though of course, any tac BOFFs you have should obviously be Romulan tacs for the crit boost.
Anyways, here's a few things:
1. Tac or sci captains only. I'm not saying you can't make it work with an eng, but you are already pushing a boulder up a hill, why add more work? (I say this as someone who's main character is a Fed engineer as well)
2. Find a kinetic damage type you want, and stick to that one ONLY. Transphasic is kind of the 'classic' build, but you can make it work with other types. Just keep in mind that if you don't use transphasic weapons, you will need to remember about shields a lot more.
3. You leveled with BoPs as you mentioned in your OP, so if you found something that works while you leveled, keep with it in the B'rel, just knowing that you can do a lot while under cloak.
4. Remember flanking. That's soon to be out. while I call BS on them not allowing mines or mine-laying weapons (See: Breen Cluster Torp) to flank, that is coming out soon. So even your normal weapons are gonna do a LOT more damage to NPCs when that hits. (So achieving a lot more DPS will be quite likely as such)
5. Science it up. There's no shame in carrying some Jam and Scramble sensors on your ship, along with maybe some other stuff. Seriously, WAY more than anything else has stuff like a well-timed placate or confuse seriously saved me. Plus pretty much any other sciency stuff you wanna use.
6. Klingons have toys, feel free to use em. Sure in PvP some things the KDF has are considered 'cheese' or 'OP' like AAs, Graviton Pulse, etc, but in PvE, who cares after all. NPCs won't ever complain, so there's no restrictions on using whatever you want all while under the enjoyable safety of cloak.
7. Try not to worry about not dying. Seriously, you are a BoP, trying to fuss over dying really isn't worth it. I mean, you shouldn't give up on everything in regards to that (like carrying a couple basic heals like TSS and HE), just more that trying to keep yourself alive is a largely futile gesture (also why I don't recommend trying to use an eng with it)
8. Aux and Eng. Since you are under cloak, no need to worry about pesky shields or weapon power, so pump up the aux and dump anything left over into engines. Aux boosts a lot of sci stuff along with your stealth (though it doesn't really matter around NPCs), and engines help you move.
Hmm, about all I got right now. Hope it helped.
B'rel... with the coming changes to flanking, it may be worth a good look. Cloak and torp is a fun, silly build, but the dps is not there (compared to cannons). It can do *enough* dps, and you can load enough sci to drain shields to supplement the torps, but in the end, torps can't keep up with cannons, period. Its all relative. Lots of people enjoy cloaked torp builds, give it a try, torpedos are cheap.... SUGGESTION: set up an all torp build with your current BOP. Sure, you can't battle cloak, but you can get a feel for it... before spending on the ship...
The battle cruisers you picked are both tanks and very similar to each other.
Ok so now you have asked about a dps carrier, an "escort" of sorts, and 2 tanks. What do you WANT the ship to DO? The bort' cruiser family is what I would pick to get that universal officer; so you can have some build options... I can't get behind the neg & ktinga as they have too much engineer seating.
Since the beginning of the year, I've been trying my hardest to learn how to make a BOP work, specifically a torp/ mine B'Rel. It's a totally different play style, and takes time to figure out.
Half of my B'Rel weapons are mines, so I tend to get real close, shoot everything in a 1-2 second window that I can, and then zip out of range as fast as possible praying that the cloak re-engages before I am fired upon and that the hull will hold when I do take hits. It's way different than my previous tactic of absorbing all incoming fire with timely heals and buffs to manage the damage.
Can a B'Rel do decent DPS in PvE? Yes. As Mimey said, 10K DPS is the max I've been able to dish out with a torp/ mine (Quantum stuff) build in crystal since there are no shields to contend with. In a STF like infected, 8k DPS is the best I've been able to achieve so far, averaged closer to 6k DPS. That does not include the next wrinkle in the game like flanking that is coming soon.
For example, I was running a Mogh before switching to the B'Rel, and I was getting 20K DPS in ISE with it.
That doesn't mean that while in Infected space elite that collecting the swarm of spheres that come from the gateway in a tight ball with a grav well and unloading a bunch of stuff won't pop the lot of them in a glorious explosion, it certainly can if you get some lucky crits.
If DPS is your thing, then the B'Rel may not quite cut it compared to the other ships you are looking at, at least in PvE. I'd go with a Neggie myself for DPS, but that's what I am confortable with.
As for PvP, the B'Rel can be a nasty little surprise with subnuc, sensor scans, etc., you can bring some crazy debuffs into the mix. It is still extremely fragile, so you have to be careful when and how you use it.
I hope that helps you out.
Alright, kind of a parallel, I guess.
The B'rel is IMO a great Sci ship. I enjoy the T'varo better as Tac, but that's not a KDF option
...
On to the Vor'cha. KDF Battle Cruisers used to be cooler when Cruisers weren't so Tac-y. Now, it's more of a trick to set them up in that sweet spot.
If you want forward firing, why not DBB it now that FAW is the one true way of Trek? Plus, grab one of them new EWOs with the Penetration after BO... so your Tac setup could be TT1, BFAW2 & a BO1. That wouldn't be horrific.
Of course, you'll need A2B in there because uber.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
well, I flew my boyfriend's T'varo and it took like FOREVER to complete the foundry mission battleship 1 on 1. ditto with the few PVE missions I did. if the DPS is similar, then I will shelve the idea of getting it. it was fun, but too hard to kill anything.
I like the tanky type of play, though I am ok at escort fun. like I said I really liked the Vo'quv but missed the second TT. I think I can probably get past that by eventually getting an A2B build but that presents issues with the grav well and hanger reload times. he has a karfi I'll have to fly it tl see if I like it. he said it's squishy, and wants to get a Ne'var.
Well, I would say that I want my cake and eat it too. I have a carrier and I like it. I have the captain level BOP (not afraid of sepnding zen to get a better one. I'm thinking maybe
getting the crusier to fit that role.. still undecided.
You can DOff TT down to global (giving you the same up-time as two copies) by setting two purple Conn Officers with cooldown + Buff (if you have lots of EC) or two blue and one green (if you have active roster space, but not as much EC) to being active.
Maybe the B'rel isn't for you.
Torpedo types can make a lot of difference, though, especially the Breen Cluster & the Gravimetric Torpedo from the Dyson Rep. I pretty much shred the Tau Dewa patrols on Elite.
The T'varo is even nastier in a shooting fight than the B'rel, though, especially with the set bonus & the extra destabilized plasma torpedo console. I would say that with the wrong Torpedos, a simple fight can go really sideways, however.
I'll have to check out the Battleship thing just to see how it goes with my B'rel, even though I run a Science B'rel.
The Mirror Negh'var is worth the price on the Exchange, whatever it is.
EDIT:
On Battleships & Torpedo Boats... just took on a Voth Bulwark Battleship in Voth space with my T'varo (solo, because nobody was around that area). Is the Dyson area set to Easy difficulty? It took me maybe 4 or 5 passes (all along the flanks, even though that is somewhat pointless), and I popped the Bulwark (plus the Voth repair ship that came in after).
It helped that everything crit on my initial Breen Cluster (which is why Romulans & T'varo are so much nastier at the Tac game), plus I was landing crits on my standard & RR Transphasic. The RR Transphasic also has the +CritD mod, along with Acc & the special rapid reload mod... which makes it a decent weapon for high Crit Romulans.
I'll have to see the Foundry thing, though. (EDIT: Didn't see that particular mission. All sorts of loot missions with Battleships, and I can annihilate the other loot missions in the Foundry... I wanted something that shot back!)
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I understand your reasoning. But in regards to the B'rel, at least keep in mind still that flanking is coming out with the season release. So at least remember that is something that no Romulan Warbird will get. That 25% damage boost is actually quite a big one at that as long as you are shooting an enemy in the rear shield arc.
I've found it's actually BETTER to have more than one ship end game set up to do different things. Hell on my main toon I have 4 ships for whatever job it is.
Regent for FAW A2B spamming
Odyssey star cruiser for Star Fleet Battles Triezo started up.
Avenger for pure cannon firing
Made a sci vesta for torp and mine laying.
Hell for my engineer klingon(drow, yes I made a drow, just because I could) I had him in BoP, and then because I had bought the Mogh for another charcter, I now have 3 end game ships for him. B'Rel refit for torp spamming, Mogh for straight up fighting, and I also have a mirror Vo'Quv for a carrier.
Tl:Dr, have atleast 2 ships for end game IMHO.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I don't run DPS parsers, but I was at just under 6.8K last night for the sole ISE run that I did, according to someone else's DPS parser thing. We got the bonus. The Tac Cube & the Gate targeted me a couple times, but I didn't die.
My T'varo does a lot more spike damage due to Rom OP Crits, the Destabilized Plasma console, and whatnot.
If they nerf the Gravimetric Rifts on the Dyson torpedo, then my DPS will be hit for sure... but single-target? It's all Transphasic, for the most part.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Just finished the first new epsidoe, Where Angels Fear to Tread, with my KDF Sci in the B'rel.
I accidentally had the Episode thing on Elite because I had been doing Tau Dewa Patrol on Elite prior to the S9 change. Ooops
I even managed to kill myself on the Elite Tactical Drones (Ground enemies, not Space) a couple times, not realizing I was on Elite difficulty.
As for Space in my B'rel, I popped the regular Cubes with no problem... especially since I now know to look at the tiny little arrow in the target indicator to figure out what side I am facing (Down is up the kilt, right?). Are cubes that weak on ISE? I didn't think they were, but I also didn't get to line up flanking shots before now.
I didn't think it was Elite at all. I didn't even put on my Transphasic Torpedo launcher with the (Borg) mod... just stacked up the Cubes & mowed them down.
And, of course, as a Sci captain, I got a rare Engineering kit Mk XI (Threat) (Will) from one of the Elite Tac Drones. :rolleyes:
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Personally I love the Kar'fi with a sci captain. Just remember that just because you can use the skuls/frigates, you don't have to. You can run whatever pets you prefer other than the BOP pets restricted to the vo'quv. The other thing to consider when comparing the kar'fi to the vo'quv is that you can turn much better and get more forward weapon slots. The past two days running the undine assault mission in my kar'fi I've been clearing a lane solo in the same time a group of 3 players is clearing another lane. Set it up as a beam boat with a torp fore and aft, pop a grav well and torp spread and things go boom quite fast. If using the frigates the tricobalt torps they launch just make the booms that much bigger, but even using scorpions or some other fighter with torps will get the job done.
Once you fly BoP you cant stop.
Try out the Fleet Hoh'Sus. It is amazing!!
Don't belong to a fleet.