While many players use Phasers in PvP, the PvE player with access to log parses generally avoids them.
As others have pointed out, all energy weapons are the same, and it's the proc (or additional process) triggered where the value is seen.
Against PvE targets, the phaser proc of hitting a random subsystem is practically worthless for too many reason listed here. Against another player, they're not bad.
The biggest 'let-down' are the elite fleet phasers. A complete waste of time when compared to the OMG-MUST-HAVE of elite disrupters.
For PvE players it's all about damage that's visible. Strip shields fast, eliminate the target. Where that differs against a PvP player, is that the player has a range of countermeasures and skills to thwart your dps-only efforts. Completely different ballgame meaning phasers have value.
Keep in mind every player thinks they're 'not bad' until they see someone with the same essential build but a different energy type doing 2-3x their damage.
Personally I want phasers, but as I'm a PvE players most days Romulan Plamsa and Phased Polarons are my go-to for all fed-aligned toons. Disrupters for the KDF.
I see A LOT of players using phasers in pve. At least, everytime i queue into a fleet alert, or something else, there is always someone using phasers. Hell, even in STFS.
Can please stop talking about the proc?? who cares?? the phasers deals DAMAGE, same as the other weapons. I think people cant understand this. I dont use phasers for the proc, in fact, when i use other weapons, i barely pay attention to the proc.
You can boost phasers with consoles and have a lot of damage output from em. Like any other weapon. I think u guys are just stucked in the procs and you will never get out of that. If you tell me, that phasers are like tetryon, that are useless against hull, i will understand, but it is not the case. My dyson science destroyers phasers can get rid of the target's shield in seconds. I dont see the problem there.
But it is the same story as always, people ONLY wants the best of the best. If this weapon is the one that deals less damage than any other one, then that weapon is useless and nobody should use it. Thats the way people think. Lol. The problem is, that is not even true lol. I like phasers, i own in pve with em and since its probably that i will never play pvp, im good with em. And i really enjoy my phaser build (its not really a "build", since thats the problem with phasers, that we dont have a set or something else, but its something).
People just need to relax and enjoy the game, seriously...
Case in point, I've read multiple posters suggest Phasers get an inherent accuracy bonus. And yet, one of the most consistent discussions about phaser damage potential has to do with PVE performance. Accuracy is less of an issue in PVE. Only recently have the devs coded ships to actually use speed boosts which create the need for more accuracy. Currently a lot of PVErs are dumping accuracy for CritH and CritD. Also there's a ton of accuracy boosts from other sources outside of the weapon itself. So on the face of it, adding an ACC boost to just phasers seems like a great idea, but in practice (in PVE at least) it's right back to the same old problem. That phasers are giving a boost that isn't all that helpful overall.
Accuracy overflows into crit
It is useful against targets with high defense and no defense
My Sci toon runs Phasers on his Vesta because in his opinion the ship was build to run Phasers. Well more specifically, Phaser Auxiliary DHC's that allows him to run at 125/100 aux power and do decent DPS while doing excellent Sci stuff.
My Tac on the other hand runs Antiproton because Captain Critalot have outfitted his crew and ship to get a lot of crits (17.5% currently) which makes Antiproton the best choice for him.
My Engineer runs Polaron because he flies an Avenger Aux2Bat beam boat and finds that Polaron combined with a Plasmonic Leech console helps a lot to keep weapons power up since he spams FAW and DEM all the time.
Non of these guys ran any parses or tests before hand to pick a weapon type. They all had a goal in mind and chose their weapon types to match their goal. All of them are very happy with their choices because it works for them. They couldn't give a rats TRIBBLE if proc a works better than proc b because the only proc they care about is the one useful to themselves.
Lemme do some kitchen maths on procs real quick. Theoretical of course.
Base chance 2.5% on 1000 shots fired means 25/1000 shots will proc on average. Granted, it can be a lot more or a lot less but for the sake of argument lets work the theoretical %.
So is it really worth building around a 25/1000 shots proc? For some people it might be but not for me.
And yes, there are Sci consoles that increases Plasma burn. If it's that good I don't see why I'd have to change weapons for it. It works with all energy types.
So really, build your ship in a way that makes YOU happy and let the min/max folks worry about the insignificant numbers.
Most of us already realize that Phasers will get a set bonus. With some new reputation that isn't in the game currently. And then things will change.
Until then most of the ideas for boosting phasers are either not mechanically possible, not something the devs are likely to do, or are essentially not going to help phasers at all anyways.
Case in point, I've read multiple posters suggest Phasers get an inherent accuracy bonus. And yet, one of the most consistent discussions about phaser damage potential has to do with PVE performance. Accuracy is less of an issue in PVE. Only recently have the devs coded ships to actually use speed boosts which create the need for more accuracy. Currently a lot of PVErs are dumping accuracy for CritH and CritD. Also there's a ton of accuracy boosts from other sources outside of the weapon itself. So on the face of it, adding an ACC boost to just phasers seems like a great idea, but in practice (in PVE at least) it's right back to the same old problem. That phasers are giving a boost that isn't all that helpful overall.
Another suggestion I've seen is shield bypass. That's something the devs aren't likely to do since they've given that capability to protonic energy. Also that's not really in flavor with phasers. In the shows they don't bypass shields.
So I don't know. I think if we just wait a bit, we'll get a rep set that boosts phaser damage. And then it'll be back to really just picking whichever color you think is prettiest.
Accuracy is too a boon though in PvE because excess ACC gets converted into crit. It would be useful in PvE and PvP alike, just in a different nich from disruptors/plasma/antiproton.
OMG this thread cracks me up. This same lame story about judging weapons on there proc. If you can't melt threw mobs with Phaser then your build is TRIBBLE period. To many so called experts on these boards. I do fine with my build in everything this game throws at me. PHASERS DON'T SUCK YOUR BUILD DOES.
After flying one in the first contact day rommie mission, I'm so glad that I never made the scimitard pack purchase. Honestly as it sits right now, there is no draw whatsoever for me to put any time into the Romulan "faction".
What a bummer as I soooooo looked forward to it pre LoR
OMG this thread cracks me up. This same lame story about judging weapons on there proc. If you can't melt threw mobs with Phaser then your build is TRIBBLE period. To many so called experts on these boards. I do fine with my build in everything this game throws at me. PHASERS DON'T SUCK YOUR BUILD DOES.
Very Nice Build !!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Most of us already realize that Phasers will get a set bonus. With some new reputation that isn't in the game currently. And then things will change.
Until then most of the ideas for boosting phasers are either not mechanically possible, not something the devs are likely to do, or are essentially not going to help phasers at all anyways.
Case in point, I've read multiple posters suggest Phasers get an inherent accuracy bonus. And yet, one of the most consistent discussions about phaser damage potential has to do with PVE performance. Accuracy is less of an issue in PVE. Only recently have the devs coded ships to actually use speed boosts which create the need for more accuracy. Currently a lot of PVErs are dumping accuracy for CritH and CritD. Also there's a ton of accuracy boosts from other sources outside of the weapon itself. So on the face of it, adding an ACC boost to just phasers seems like a great idea, but in practice (in PVE at least) it's right back to the same old problem. That phasers are giving a boost that isn't all that helpful overall.
Another suggestion I've seen is shield bypass. That's something the devs aren't likely to do since they've given that capability to protonic energy. Also that's not really in flavor with phasers. In the shows they don't bypass shields, but it would be a straight damage bonus as opposed to an occasional chance-based event.
So I don't know. I think if we just wait a bit, we'll get a rep set that boosts phaser damage. And then it'll be back to really just picking whichever color you think is prettiest.
Unfortunately, until Cryptic actually delivers a phaser damage boosting set, the above is just wishful thinking. And how long can we wait? Until Season9? 10? 11? 100???? It's been 4+ years, and we're still waiting. Heck, Cryptic even showed that they were willing to create two tetryon sets before even considering one phaser-based set. How's that for phaser-denial?
Regarding what proc bonus is practical vs. what isn't: phasers were never anti-subsystem in Star Trek canon -- it was an energy type that was considered more advanced that classic disruptors, but the script writers never explained why. Phasers are supposed to be an energy and particle beam hybrid, so it would not be unreasonable for Cryptic to include a small kinetic damage component to all phasers, perhaps +2.5% to match it up with standard proc trigger rates, but as a straight damage bonus instead of a chance-based proc event.
OMG this thread cracks me up. This same lame story about judging weapons on there proc. If you can't melt threw mobs with Phaser then your build is TRIBBLE period. To many so called experts on these boards. I do fine with my build in everything this game throws at me. PHASERS DON'T SUCK YOUR BUILD DOES.
Except the point isn't "I win with plasma/dis/anti, I lose with phasers". It's "The content is easy enough that I win regardless, but phasers are still lackluster compared to plasma/dis/anti". This goes back to the hive mind issue I outlined in another post. The whole "I can clear conduit with phasers equipped, therefore phasers = competitive" mindset. A lot of the PvE content might be brain dead enough that you could run a rainbow turrets front and back build and still "win", that doesn't mean such a layout is not inferior to an alternative any way you slice it.
Easy PvE content is a separate issue that while frustrating, can't be a rationalization to keep sub par ships or beams sub par. And I fully well know that a screwball player with excellent beams can't beat a skilled player with sub par beams. But that doesn't mean you leave the latter as inferior. Hell I can kill a scrub in a Scim in my Galaxy class. That doesn't mean the two are balanced or that the game would not be benefited from the two receiving balance adjustments.
Except the point isn't "I win with plasma/dis/anti, I lose with phasers". It's "The content is easy enough that I win regardless, but phasers are still lackluster compared to plasma/dis/anti". This goes back to the hive mind issue I outlined in another post. The whole "I can clear conduit with phasers equipped, therefore phasers = competitive" mindset. A lot of the PvE content might be brain dead enough that you could run a rainbow turrets front and back build and still "win", that doesn't mean such a layout is not inferior to an alternative any way you slice it.
Easy PvE content is a separate issue that while frustrating, can't be a rationalization to keep sub par ships or beams sub par. And I fully well know that a screwball player with excellent beams can't beat a skilled player with sub par beams. But that doesn't mean you leave the latter as inferior. Hell I can kill a scrub in a Scim in my Galaxy class. That doesn't mean the two are balanced or probably aren't in need of some adjustment.
Pretty much.
Compare the phaser subsystem disable proc to the elachi shield bypass and half-resist proc:
-Phasers procs disable a subsystem for 1-5 seconds depending on the target's subsystem repair level (and mine's at least +85). Proc effect is limited to once every 5 seconds.
-Elachi Disruptors procs completely ignore shields and half of the target's resist when they trigger. Their effect does not fiddle with subsystems -- they're meant to kill even hardened player targets. Proc Effect used to be capped at 5 seconds, but now this cap has been removed.
Which would you take into space PVP with all other equipment being equal?
If I was going to give Phasers a buff, I'd get rid of a proc and give them a small accuracy buff. there is a precident for that kind of thing with AP weapons
Unfortunately, until Cryptic actually delivers a phaser damage boosting set, the above is just wishful thinking. And how long can we wait? Until Season9? 10? 11? 100???? It's been 4+ years, and we're still waiting. Heck, Cryptic even showed that they were willing to create two tetryon sets before even considering one phaser-based set. How's that for phaser-denial?
Maybe season 9.
Regarding what proc bonus is practical vs. what isn't: phasers were never anti-subsystem in Star Trek canon -- it was an energy type that was considered more advanced that classic disruptors, but the script writers never explained why. Phasers are supposed to be an energy and particle beam hybrid, so it would not be unreasonable for Cryptic to include a small kinetic damage component to all phasers, perhaps +2.5% to match it up with standard proc trigger rates, but as a straight damage bonus instead of a chance-based proc event.
That's a creative idea. I hope my post didn't suggest I thought anti-subsystem was something canon. I just was trying to point out that shield bypass is something they assigned to protonic energy and it didn't quite feel right on phasers in my opinion. Your idea sounds interesting.
Comments
I see A LOT of players using phasers in pve. At least, everytime i queue into a fleet alert, or something else, there is always someone using phasers. Hell, even in STFS.
Can please stop talking about the proc?? who cares?? the phasers deals DAMAGE, same as the other weapons. I think people cant understand this. I dont use phasers for the proc, in fact, when i use other weapons, i barely pay attention to the proc.
You can boost phasers with consoles and have a lot of damage output from em. Like any other weapon. I think u guys are just stucked in the procs and you will never get out of that. If you tell me, that phasers are like tetryon, that are useless against hull, i will understand, but it is not the case. My dyson science destroyers phasers can get rid of the target's shield in seconds. I dont see the problem there.
But it is the same story as always, people ONLY wants the best of the best. If this weapon is the one that deals less damage than any other one, then that weapon is useless and nobody should use it. Thats the way people think. Lol. The problem is, that is not even true lol. I like phasers, i own in pve with em and since its probably that i will never play pvp, im good with em. And i really enjoy my phaser build (its not really a "build", since thats the problem with phasers, that we dont have a set or something else, but its something).
People just need to relax and enjoy the game, seriously...
It is useful against targets with high defense and no defense
My Sci toon runs Phasers on his Vesta because in his opinion the ship was build to run Phasers. Well more specifically, Phaser Auxiliary DHC's that allows him to run at 125/100 aux power and do decent DPS while doing excellent Sci stuff.
My Tac on the other hand runs Antiproton because Captain Critalot have outfitted his crew and ship to get a lot of crits (17.5% currently) which makes Antiproton the best choice for him.
My Engineer runs Polaron because he flies an Avenger Aux2Bat beam boat and finds that Polaron combined with a Plasmonic Leech console helps a lot to keep weapons power up since he spams FAW and DEM all the time.
Non of these guys ran any parses or tests before hand to pick a weapon type. They all had a goal in mind and chose their weapon types to match their goal. All of them are very happy with their choices because it works for them. They couldn't give a rats TRIBBLE if proc a works better than proc b because the only proc they care about is the one useful to themselves.
Lemme do some kitchen maths on procs real quick. Theoretical of course.
Base chance 2.5% on 1000 shots fired means 25/1000 shots will proc on average. Granted, it can be a lot more or a lot less but for the sake of argument lets work the theoretical %.
So is it really worth building around a 25/1000 shots proc? For some people it might be but not for me.
And yes, there are Sci consoles that increases Plasma burn. If it's that good I don't see why I'd have to change weapons for it. It works with all energy types.
So really, build your ship in a way that makes YOU happy and let the min/max folks worry about the insignificant numbers.
Accuracy is too a boon though in PvE because excess ACC gets converted into crit. It would be useful in PvE and PvP alike, just in a different nich from disruptors/plasma/antiproton.
Oh god. I totally forgot about that. Serves me right for taking too many breaks from this game and forgetting some of the quirks of Cryptic math.
Thanks for the reminder.
And hey, more acc for all then!
And ACC is thrown into CTRD :eek:
I'm not a math person I just put on gear and if it works I take out the enemy fast enough I keep the build ....
But now my question to you people, is it true that using Romulan Plasma Weapons do far more damage than all others ?
Because if this is the case I understand why these scimitars are so strong... in STF
Greets
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
What a bummer as I soooooo looked forward to it pre LoR
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
Very Nice Build !!!
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Unfortunately, until Cryptic actually delivers a phaser damage boosting set, the above is just wishful thinking. And how long can we wait? Until Season9? 10? 11? 100???? It's been 4+ years, and we're still waiting. Heck, Cryptic even showed that they were willing to create two tetryon sets before even considering one phaser-based set. How's that for phaser-denial?
Regarding what proc bonus is practical vs. what isn't: phasers were never anti-subsystem in Star Trek canon -- it was an energy type that was considered more advanced that classic disruptors, but the script writers never explained why. Phasers are supposed to be an energy and particle beam hybrid, so it would not be unreasonable for Cryptic to include a small kinetic damage component to all phasers, perhaps +2.5% to match it up with standard proc trigger rates, but as a straight damage bonus instead of a chance-based proc event.
Except the point isn't "I win with plasma/dis/anti, I lose with phasers". It's "The content is easy enough that I win regardless, but phasers are still lackluster compared to plasma/dis/anti". This goes back to the hive mind issue I outlined in another post. The whole "I can clear conduit with phasers equipped, therefore phasers = competitive" mindset. A lot of the PvE content might be brain dead enough that you could run a rainbow turrets front and back build and still "win", that doesn't mean such a layout is not inferior to an alternative any way you slice it.
Easy PvE content is a separate issue that while frustrating, can't be a rationalization to keep sub par ships or beams sub par. And I fully well know that a screwball player with excellent beams can't beat a skilled player with sub par beams. But that doesn't mean you leave the latter as inferior. Hell I can kill a scrub in a Scim in my Galaxy class. That doesn't mean the two are balanced or that the game would not be benefited from the two receiving balance adjustments.
Pretty much.
Compare the phaser subsystem disable proc to the elachi shield bypass and half-resist proc:
-Phasers procs disable a subsystem for 1-5 seconds depending on the target's subsystem repair level (and mine's at least +85). Proc effect is limited to once every 5 seconds.
-Elachi Disruptors procs completely ignore shields and half of the target's resist when they trigger. Their effect does not fiddle with subsystems -- they're meant to kill even hardened player targets. Proc Effect used to be capped at 5 seconds, but now this cap has been removed.
Which would you take into space PVP with all other equipment being equal?
Maybe season 9.
That's a creative idea. I hope my post didn't suggest I thought anti-subsystem was something canon. I just was trying to point out that shield bypass is something they assigned to protonic energy and it didn't quite feel right on phasers in my opinion. Your idea sounds interesting.