Wow, Phasers DO suck

gofasternow

Recently, I've been slapping on Phasers to most of my new Federation ships for that canon-y feel to them, but I've always noted that they really don't do much. I usually don't question them compared to DHC because cannons.

Just today, on my way to rehit "Boldly They Rode" to get my Assault Cruiser more Dominion Polarons after letting the poor ship sit there for so long, I decide to go hit a Borg Incursion on the way there and I was shocked at how fast that thing tore through Borg ships. Phasers took me awhile, my Polaron/Dominion Polaron mix just absolutely melted the competition. I couldn't pull this off with my Fleet Gal-X which I loaded with Mk XI Retrofit Phasers.

Are ALL Phasers like this? If they are, they REALLY need to give these poor things a boost like badly.

snoggymack22

gofasternow wrote: »

Are ALL Phasers like this?

Nope. It seems it's just yours that are doing that poorly. Not sure why though. Some data/numbers would be needed.

If they are, they REALLY need to give these poor things a boost like badly.

Can't really tell yet though since there's no data. Just adjectives. Next time rock some parses and see what the difference is. It'll help us determine where your phasers are going wrong.

gieger

I have found phasers to be lackluster in pve. Almost anything else is superior to them. Well, unless you have access to the best consoles, then I supose pve phasers woule be good enough.

In pvp, they rock.

dova25

Some of PVP players use phaser weapons and do rampage with them so no phaser proc is a very good and useful proc as it is now at least for PVP.

True for PVE is not so useful , because NPC don't have a lot of shields between your weapons and their hull

( For OP try some free AP beam array's +obelisk warp core+360 beam weapon from episode if you play more PVE maybe you will like them too)

antoniosalieri

All the weapons do the exact same base dmg.

The only difference is the proc. The proc is always 2.5% chance... so really the difference in PvE between any of them is almost nil. In PvP sure some procs are better then others... the phaser proc though is not a terrible proc in PvP.

Likely its your choice of MODs and support gear. If you are running the exact same weapon types with same mods and number/type of dmg consoles. The difference in damage on pretty much any weapon type in PvE over a long enough period is going to even out to with in 1-2% give or take.

gofasternow

Huh... that's interesting.

I'll hafta do some work later tonight (Gotta go to work now >_>) and I'll see if, yeah, it's just the odd PVE thing.

edgecrysger

Phasers are not bad.

They are not as boosted as other weapons, and the proc is not good enough, but they work. I have 2 phaser + quantum builds on my fed toons, and in pve i really hurt badly. So, yes, phasers are good.

Now, the problem begin when you need more than consoles to boost the damage of the phasers. U cant. And the proc makes em to be slighty more useless than other weapons, but the difference is not that high. Its obviously that you must be doing something wrong.

And yes, phasers are fine for pve (well i dont play pvp since ages ago until its fixed, but i can tell that for pve they work.).

thecosmic1

Also, if you are using the Jem Equipment set it give an 8% bonus to Polaron damage, IIRC. That might be what you are seeing compared to Phasers.

tyranthraxisii

yea my phasers melt the competition. I don't have a database, and haven't fed the numbers into anything to figure out my actual dps, but I know a lot of the time(after my avenger decloaks) my phasers are making yellow 2000+ numbers stream above the target very quickly. You need Phaser Tac consoles for one(the fleet ones are great), and I have a FAW boat but you can make any damage type work in this game. The proc is not frequent enough to count on, but it can be nice too. Having now weapons firing at you, or watching shields disappear is nice. I know we all saw a little of this in the mirror incursion.

lucho80

With phasers, you disable x random subsystem every so often, and I think Borg aren't really affected by it. On the other had, a polaron proc will make a NPC squishier when it procs by draining 25 or more power from all subsystems.

edgecrysger

lucho80 wrote: »

With phasers, you disable x random subsystem every so often, and I think Borg aren't really affected by it. On the other had, a polaron proc will make a NPC squishier when it procs by draining 25 or more power from all subsystems.

We are talking about using canon weapons on canon ships, so a federation cruiser should use phasers.. lol. A Federation ship using polarons.. erm.. meh. And at least in my case i use weapons that i like it, not weapons that are better or worst.

I like polaron beams, but i like phasers more on my starfleet ships. Because they fit better. Now, if i want just "BETTER" weapons, i will go just for an AP build, plasma or disruptor build. But never polaron. Unless you already have the jemhadar set and u want to use it. But if not.. why polarons?? lol.

tyranthraxisii

My Fed Sci loves his polaron beams on his drain carrier *shrugs* If I make a character I want to RP(hasn't happened yet, need to find the right people), then I would go canon, but honestly the weapon type should depend on 1 of 2 things. 1, Does the weapon proc fit your build, 2, do you have the money/resources for a full set of those. My main has Phasers atm because she was flying a Gal-X a few years ago, and again when it revamped, and after realizing it was still terrible, I switched back to my Avenger, and now blow stuff up. when I have the money/resources I may change to a different dmg type(most likely anitproton) but like I said earlier, Phasers are blowing stuff up, just need a good boff layout/consoles to compliment your build.

angrytarg

The problem with phasers is that their proc has been almost nullified by every NPC that's not supposed to be mook cannon-fodder thanks to the power creep. What I mean is that every elite difficulty NPC will sport such ridiculous amounts of shield/hull/regeneration that a disabled subsystem will either be online in an instant or the effect is barely noticeable.

Phasers are fine but the gamedesign sucks.

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xigbarg

Would they be broken if they had a bonus in bleed through?

foxfire2000

Oh i don't know, i quite like phasers and don't really have any real issues kicking butt with them, overload beam 2 and once the shield is down a nice PHoT right onto the hull will usually see most things done, and i have a heavy phaser cannon on the front to add that extra cherry on top.

I like them.

sabremeister1

I wouldn't put it past the Borg to have shields with phaser resistance, given the number of times the Federation's kicked their TRIBBLE.

As others have pointed out, there is nothing inherently poor about phasers compared to other energy types, but it is worth noting that phasers do not have an equipment set that synergises with their damage type. Disruptors are boosted by the Silent Enemy set (Elachi weapons), tetryon by the Tholian/Hirogen weapons sets, polaron by the Jem'Hadar set, plasma by the Romulan Singularity set, and I think antiproton gets a boost from the Obelisk set, but nothing for phasers (which is something of an oversight I feel, because the proc can be fairly useful)

snoggymack22

sabremeister1 wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past the Borg to have shields with phaser resistance, given the number of times the Federation's kicked their TRIBBLE.

As others have pointed out, there is nothing inherently poor about phasers compared to other energy types, but it is worth noting that phasers do not have an equipment set that synergises with their damage type. Disruptors are boosted by the Silent Enemy set (Elachi weapons), tetryon by the Tholian/Hirogen weapons sets, polaron by the Jem'Hadar set, plasma by the Romulan Singularity set, and I think antiproton gets a boost from the Obelisk set, but nothing for phasers (which is something of an oversight I feel, because the proc can be fairly useful)

Well they may be getting something soon with the Undine rep.

solidshatner

I agree that the retrofit phasers are pretty lack-luster. I picked them off my old Constitution Class to make a beam boat for my Fleet Gal X as I didnt have any others at the time. Other phasers are better, but I wish there were space sets that gave better weapon type bonuses outside the main three out there right now (IE - the AP 360 set, the Jem set for Polaron and the Nakura Tet set - is there a 4th for plasma on the Rom rep? Not sure).

With those sets out there, its hard for me to get a good build going using anything else. I find the drop in DPS just . . . too noticable IMO. I also think its why so many peeps use AP as the results and effects are easier to see.

sonnikku

Phasers suck TRIBBLE. But it doesn't stop the playerbase from passing them off as amazing. Right off the bat in PvE they're terrible. Their proc is irrelevant and even if it did proc most of the targets you'll be fighting with just shrug it off like nothing. Once you have things like set bonuses/360 degree antiproton beams and experimental beam arrays however the disparity between phasers and everything else becomes even wider. Some insist phasers are amazing in pvp; I think not. They were a weapon known for accuracy; like a scalpel selectively crippling or disabling a subsystem depending on need. This is far better represented by Science ships than beams. Phasers in STO are so random and clumsy that they're a real TRIBBLE shoot in what system they will will take down if any.

"Disable their subsystem!"

"Erm... what subsystem, Captain?"

"I don't know, surprise me"

^ how I think a conversation on the bridge goes when using modern day phasers. :P

But I will give phasers one thing. When you roll the dice and get lucky with disabling a targets shields, they're amazing. Amazing right up to the point in which the target figures out they can counter it instantly with a wide range of batteries/emergency power cooldowns and Team cooldowns. :P

sunfrancks

They should have a similar, but more powerful shield bypass proc like proton. Might be worth considering then, other than going canon for fun..

solidshatner

sonnikku wrote: »

Phasers suck TRIBBLE. But it doesn't stop the playerbase from passing them off as amazing. Right off the bat in PvE they're terrible. Their proc is irrelevant and even if it did proc most of the targets you'll be fighting with just shrug it off like nothing. Once you have things like set bonuses/360 degree antiproton beams and experimental beam arrays however the disparity between phasers and everything else becomes even wider. Some insist phasers are amazing in pvp; I think not. They were a weapon known for accuracy; like a scalpel selectively crippling or disabling a subsystem depending on need. This is far better represented by Science ships than beams. Phasers in STO are so random and clumsy that they're a real TRIBBLE shoot in what system they will will take down if any.

"Disable their subsystem!"

"Erm... what subsystem, Captain?"

"I don't know, surprise me"

^ how I think a conversation on the bridge goes when using modern day phasers. :P

But I will give phasers one thing. When you roll the dice and get lucky with disabling a targets shields, they're amazing. Amazing right up to the point in which the target figures out they can counter it instantly with a wide range of batteries/emergency power cooldowns and Team cooldowns. :P

ROTFLMAO - THIS. A million times THIS. I was trying to be polite earlier.

snoggymack22

solidshatner wrote: »

I agree that the retrofit phasers are pretty lack-luster.

Of course they are. The ones from the TOS Constitution don't go past Mk X in base damage. Nobody here is really recommending people use THOSE phasers as the basis for Phaser damage. They're fun and all, but they're just that, for fun.

is there a 4th for plasma on the Rom rep? Not sure).

Yes.

ursusmorologus

antoniosalieri wrote: »

All the weapons do the exact same base dmg.

The only difference is the proc. The proc is always 2.5% chance... so really the difference in PvE between any of them is almost nil.

Thats not the whole case, though. Plasma damage can be further buffed with embassy sci consoles, has nothing to do with the proc. AP can be buffed with crit chance, no proc involved. Then when you look at the actual proc, you have disruptors and polarons making targets take greater damage (by weakening resists, in different ways). Phasers can make the target take greater damage if the proc disables shields, so basically 2.5% chance divided by 4. Only thing worse is Tetryon.

sonnikku wrote: »

Phasers suck TRIBBLE.

Pretty much.

There's really only one good reason to use them, and thats if you have ship-based phaser gear that you cant get rid of for some reason (lance, or quads, or PDS, etc).

They really need a passive buff to [acc] or [crth] or something

edgecrysger

sonnikku wrote: »

Phasers suck TRIBBLE. But it doesn't stop the playerbase from passing them off as amazing. Right off the bat in PvE they're terrible.

Well, then, in pve, i really own with my phaser - quantum boat. Something really weird is going on.. lol. :P

I mean, they are maybe worst than any other weapons.. but seriously?? if they were so terrible, nobody will use em cuz they wont be able to kill anything with em..

And i tell you again. I kick TRIBBLE in pve with my phasers. No matter if my enemy is romulan, breen or borg.

ursusmorologus

edgecrysger wrote: »

Well, then, in pve, i really own with my phaser - quantum boat. Something really weird is going on.. lol. :P

I mean, they are maybe worst than any other weapons.. but seriously?? if they were so terrible, nobody will use em cuz they wont be able to kill anything with em..

And i tell you again. I kick TRIBBLE in pve with my phasers. No matter if my enemy is romulan, breen or borg.

The kumari in your sig? Wing cannons?

ddesjardins

While many players use Phasers in PvP, the PvE player with access to log parses generally avoids them.

As others have pointed out, all energy weapons are the same, and it's the proc (or additional process) triggered where the value is seen.

Against PvE targets, the phaser proc of hitting a random subsystem is practically worthless for too many reason listed here. Against another player, they're not bad.

The biggest 'let-down' are the elite fleet phasers. A complete waste of time when compared to the OMG-MUST-HAVE of elite disrupters.

For PvE players it's all about damage that's visible. Strip shields fast, eliminate the target. Where that differs against a PvP player, is that the player has a range of countermeasures and skills to thwart your dps-only efforts. Completely different ballgame meaning phasers have value.

Keep in mind every player thinks they're 'not bad' until they see someone with the same essential build but a different energy type doing 2-3x their damage.

Personally I want phasers, but as I'm a PvE players most days Romulan Plamsa and Phased Polarons are my go-to for all fed-aligned toons. Disrupters for the KDF.

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a3001

gofasternow wrote: »

I couldn't pull this off with my Fleet Gal-X which I loaded with Mk XI Retrofit Phasers.

well there's your problem!

hypl

What kind of proc should phasers have then?

- Chance to deal additional phaser damage
- Chance to produce an additional beam or cannon shot that targets a nearby random enemy that is in range
- Chance to produce a proximity blast on a target that damages adjacent enemies
- Chance to fire an overloaded volley that deals slightly increased damage
- Chance to randomly shut down a target for X seconds

I'm trying to think back and remember if phasers had demonstrated unique uses, such as proximity blasts.

tyranthraxisii

- Chance to produce an additional beam or cannon shot that targets a nearby random enemy that is in range

I would think this or the proximity blast is ok too, but I was thinking the other day that every time the Enterprise went against more then 1 enemy, they would shoot beams at more than 1, and I can't think they had permaFAW. I think it would be interesting for 2.5% chance to fire an additional phaser beam at a random target, at no power drain, and not on cooldown with other phasers.