Everything is basically underrated in the fleet project. The only way to really get fleet credits are marks in my opinion.
yep, and marks are the easiest to get.. you can get them by standing around in a certain area and not do anything but chat in fleet chat.
after you hit t5 you should also be able to do a project that triples the earned amount of fc per all projects.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
1. The poor pay for them. Seriously, even a 2:1 would make people a lot more willing to do so.
2. The amount of dil needed for stuff in the game continues to rise, while the amount of dil you can refine a day remains the same.
3. Donating FMs or Expertise doesn't really 'cost' you anything in a way, Dil does. Seriously, nobody minds donating Expertise (especially if they have millions of it), or FMs (since they are only ever used for the fleet) because there's no real hurt for the person donating it. Giving dil though means giving something that took time or money, and is needed for many other things.
1, Agreed.
2. The value of dil is directly linked to the maximum amount you can refine per character, per day. 8k is just a number. Some people would suggest raising the refine cap, but think about what that would do. Something that gives you 1440 dilithium is giving you 18% of your daily cap. If the cap was raised, for example, 25% to 10,000, that 1440 dilithium would only give you 14.4% of your daily cap. You would have to work harder to cap. But it doesn't end there. The dilithium exchange rate would normalize based on the number of people able to cap characters per day. In other words, the price of zen would skyrocket. It's far easier(and less harmful to the economy) to dial down the costs of dilithium directly, rather than injecting more dilithium into the economy.
3. Agreed. In addition, once you have bought everything you need from fleet holdings, fleet credits become worthless. At that point you're basically buying doffs to supply fleet projects or selling them on the exchange. Some more options for using fleet credits to make some cash would be nice.
Some people argue it should stay that way because dil is easy to grind.
But dil is used in more way than just fleet projects. It can be used to buy end game items from various store, ships (granted they are not so good), and most importantly perhaps, turned into zen.
On the other hand, fleet marks can be used for fleet projects and.... that's all.
Then, FM are so easy to have, while dil is a lot harder.
There is a reason why everyone fill the FM and expertise first, and then the dil take ages, when a fleet project pop.
I hate giving my dil, I do it for the fleet, because I like them. But honestly, everytime I fill this progress bar, I can count the zen I'm loosing. And the reward is just another slap in the face.
The fact that you can make it has no bearing on whether or not someone is willing to do it. It is possible to make tons of Dilithium in this game in a very short time. It is up to the player to decide to do it or not.
If someone wants to login and sit on their bridge making grand speeches for 2 hours a day and then log out, they are not going to make any Dilthium, but that does not mean that Dilithium is not in the game.
Now Cosmic be fair it's not like you to not take the whole, after all I did say what I would recommend for them to do. Plus if they sat on their bridge for two hours well they would have no right to complain about getting no dil.
Can you blame them for not doing it? Look at the posts on STFs, they are along the lines of x should be kept out, how to filter y from STFs, what's you're worst and so on and so forth. Hardly encouraging reading for those new to STFs. Now those people I talked about are actually showing consideration for other players by not wanting to balls up the run.
I used to have trouble making dil until I read your advice many moons ago, and I can easily get above my cap when I am in the mood, and that is without doing a single STF. No one can argue with you on the ways to make dil.
I also agree on giving a certain amount to the fleet, helping the fleet is also helping you. Even if fleet members gave 5% of the daily refine it would make things go faster, especially in the larger fleets. The trouble is the ratio is too low. Fleet marks can't be used for anything but fleet projects and are easy to get yet have a much higher ratio. Dil has too many calls on it, even a small increase in the dil:credit ratio could help.
I think the biggest issue are Reputation Projects. Those require more Dil than Fleet Gear and often (especially the weapons) aren't as good as fleet gear.
I think they need to dial back the dil requirement for projects to be more comparable to fleet items and then increase the amount of fleet marks you can get from donating dil to fleet projects. Or they allow for unrefined dil to be donated to fleet projects. But, in order to keep progression reasonable they double the amount for unrefined. If it takes 300k dil for the upgrade it would take that or 600k unrefined.
You can get 8k dil in 15-45 mins without entering into any Elite queues...
.
Can you explain how to do THAT, please?? i can do about 10k dilithium in about 1-1,5 hours. But thats all.
And people keep forgetting the problem is not to gather dilithium, that is one of the most easiest things to do in STO. The real valuable is the low limited REFINED ammount you have and the high costs of everything in the game talking about dilithium. If im going to throw away all my refined cap of dil every day, at least give me something in return, for the same value. Or at least, not the same value but close enough. And because if i throw away all my dil , i am not saving anything for personal use. I cant trade it for zen. I cant invest it on reputation projects. I cant buy fleet equipment. I mean, we dont need to be really smart to realize the ratio should be really higher.
2. The value of dil is directly linked to the maximum amount you can refine per character, per day. 8k is just a number. Some people would suggest raising the refine cap, but think about what that would do. Something that gives you 1440 dilithium is giving you 18% of your daily cap. If the cap was raised, for example, 25% to 10,000, that 1440 dilithium would only give you 14.4% of your daily cap. You would have to work harder to cap. But it doesn't end there. The dilithium exchange rate would normalize based on the number of people able to cap characters per day. In other words, the price of zen would skyrocket. It's far easier(and less harmful to the economy) to dial down the costs of dilithium directly, rather than injecting more dilithium into the economy.
3. Agreed. In addition, once you have bought everything you need from fleet holdings, fleet credits become worthless. At that point you're basically buying doffs to supply fleet projects or selling them on the exchange. Some more options for using fleet credits to make some cash would be nice.
I understand what you mean about number two. Yes, increasing the refine cap would really alter the dil-zen economy. But even so, the amount of dil needed for stuff has gone up over all. A year ago we had only two reps: Omega and Romulan, along with the fleet starbase and eventual embassy.
Now we have 4 reps, going on 5, a starbase, the embassy, a dil mine, and a spire, and probably a new fleet holding eventually.
I agree that raising the cap would be a bad idea though.
There's a fourth part of the problem I forgot in my previous post:
People seem to have this idea of looking at only what they can do, not what everyone can do. What I mean by this is that a person sees a requirement for a fleet project, and only add to what they can fill a significant portion or all of in one shot.
So people will see an FM requirement, and dump all that they have freely, same for expertise. But a person will look at a DOFF requirement, say a hundred or more and think to themselves 'well I don't have enough DOFFs, ECs, or FCs to fill that, so I won't'. So they don't do anything about that area that still needs to get filled.
The problem that arises is a case of 'all or nothing' donations that becomes habitual. People donate FMs and Expertise without care, but only a few will grind out or buy the dil necessary to fill a project most or all of the way up, same for DOFFs.
The fleet system is supposed to be a group effort, but like I mentioned, people tend to consider only what they can do instead of what everyone can do. Which is why you can sometimes hear of decent sized fleets with a few members with millions of FC because they are the ones donating so much dil and whatnot.
Now I am just basing this off of my own fleet, and almost two years of experience as such. I could of course be completely wrong about a majority of the playerbase, but it's just what I've noticed.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
It really does. The goal of this kind of content is to slow the players down. Obviously players want things to go faster. But that's not at all what the development team or designers want. They want to slow things down. It's the same reason behind the refinement cap. It's a time gate. Time gates are there on purpose.
The fleet system is supposed to be a group effort, but like I mentioned, people tend to consider only what they can do instead of what everyone can do. Which is why you can sometimes hear of decent sized fleets with a few members with millions of FC because they are the ones donating so much dil and whatnot.
Now I am just basing this off of my own fleet, and almost two years of experience as such. I could of course be completely wrong about a majority of the playerbase, but it's just what I've noticed.
I think this is fairly common.
Seems to me that, in all the fleets I've been in and now with the one i run, there are two sorts of players.
Let's call them easy donators and hard donators.
Easy donators will happily donate anything that doesn't make things harder for them.
So, they'll drop FMs as they get them, commodites as they drop for them, XP if they have lots and so on.
What they'll almost never donate is dilithium.
Hard donators will donate things that they could use themselves. Usually because they see the advantage of whatever is being built and think a little more long term.
Hard donators will put themselves behind somewhat in order to get further ahead in the future.
So, while dilithium may be relatively easy for a single toon to acquire, getting them to donate it is like pulling hens teeth.
However, given how much dilithium is required for anything above tier 2 in a fleet, I'm not sure extra FC is the best way forward.
Whats wanted is a personal incentive to give up that dilithium.
So, what I'd propose is that for every full 10k dilithium donated, the doner gets 10 lobi.
I've spent about a million fc so far and could easily spend a million more if I had them to spare.
If I could get them by donating 100,000 dil I would do it today.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
10 lobi is a bit much to ask actually, since a lockbox is 4+ lobi at 16,000 - 17,000 dil (depending on exchange rate) and a better return than lockboxes wouldn't be done by Cryptic as it would lose money.
10 lobi is a bit much to ask actually, since a lockbox is 4+ lobi at 16,000 - 17,000 dil (depending on exchange rate) and a better return than lockboxes wouldn't be done by Cryptic as it would lose money.
Your principle remains valid.
You're absolutely right.
I posted the above, wandered off to make some breakfast and get some coffee, and figured I'd put a superfluous 0 in there.
10k dilithium for 1 lobi, would be a much better idea.
Because this should not be a replacement major source for lobi, rather a small personal incentive to donate dilithium.
Trouble is, 8 million dil to get a lobi ship seems ridiculous, 60151 zen at current rates.
Mind you, people are prepared to spend that anyway for the same result, so...
Yeah, lobi ships are pretty pricey and when you convert the currencies back to time, pretty time consuming too.
I figure, for small fleets especially, if there was a small added incentive to donate dil, then we'd see a lot of much happier small fleets.
As long as the incentive is small enough to not unbalance things, yet big enough to feel worth it, I think this (or something like it) would be a good thing.
I picked lobi, but it could be zen or any thing else that players value.
Point is, the 1-1 ration of donated dil to FC is not a sufficient incentive to get those easy donators to give fleets dilithium.
This hurts smaller fleets more than bigger fleets, And as Admiral of a very small fleet, anything that convinces my casual fleeties to give the fleet a little more of what they've earned with their limited time is a very good thing.
The problem is you can't reward this meaningfully from a player perspective because Cryptic want people to buy dil with real money, and if you reward Fleet contributions with Zen that wont happen as much.
Same with Lobi, it would impact lockboxes so that is out...
Only reward that wouldn't impact real money would be EC, and anyone in a position to put in thousands of dil probably wouldn't care about bonus EC.
I hate to say it, but it really should be left the way it is. Not for the reasons the Cryptic Apologists Command Force have said, but because it would devalue our dil on the zen exchange.
If the fleet credits exchanged was more in line in with what that dil is worth compared to what it can buy everywhere else in the game then everyone would be filling those projects. But because the mark pay out is so poor relative to the value of that dil, the best way to fill those holdings is for the fleet masters to buy staggering amounts of zen to convert to dil to fill those projects themselves. That gives dil on the exchange value which in turn reduces the amount of dil you give up per zen when saving towards things on the C Store. It's good for Cryptic because it makes them money. It's good for us because it keeps the servers afloat and makes our dil valuable when saving for C Store purchases. and it's good for fleet leaders because it's impossible to advance their fleet otherwise. You just have to find a fleet with leaders that have big pockets.
The problem is not the 1:1 credit ratio. The problem is with the spire/mine/embassy provisions. They added them to create the credit sink with the embassy. 2 holding later and there just isnt enough credits to buy the gear you provisioned.
For example. Lets look at the T3 Dilithium mine upgrade. You will have the 15% fm and commodities discounts. You will have a 1 million fc deficit.
That is not including the Fleet Upgrade: Dilithium Store Discount III, Contract Specialty Tailor and Rich Dilithium Mining Daily Mission projects that come after the upgrade that all have a deficit as well.
You literally have to go into and t3 upgrade section with 1.5 mil credits in reserve just to cover the short fall of the costs of provisions.
The provisions costs weren't as bad with the embassy because people had millions of credits from the starbase.
The 1:1 dil to credit ratio is fine. What might encourage people to donate the dilithium is being able to buy the item they unlock at the end and have something to show for their troubles.
Dilithium is used everywhere in game, especially heavily in fleet projects.
Cryptic/PWE want all da cash.
Therefore dilithium is 1:1 in fleet projects.
Yeah we know that, but the point is Cryptic has to strike a balance - people don't mind being milked if they're enjoying the value of what they get in return, and in most areas the balance isn't too bad in STO. But in this area, it's a bit off - and when the balance is off, annoyance sets in. Cryptic don't want to make a game that's annoying - otherwise there's nobody to milk.
And people would also have more fleet credit, so they could buy more fleet items that also cost dilithium, so Cryptic still benefits. I have a few characters in a large fleet with fully upgraded holdings. There are many things I would like to buy from fleet stores, but I can't afford them because the only thing I have a chance to contribute is dilithium. Fleet marks are maxxed the moment a new project pops up, and everything else soon after. The only thing left to contribute is dilithium, which I do every day. Several thousand a day. But with the 1:1 ratio, I just don't have enough fleet credit to get even a quarter of what I would like to from the fleet shops.
All increasing the ratio of dilithium does is increase the amount of fleet credits coming in. That can already be changed by adjusting the amount of provisions that a project requires. The only reason why people are upset about the dilithium is that you can only refine 8000 a day making the 2 mil dil requirement hard to swallow.
Giving 10 credits per dil instead of one does not make 2 mil dil any easier. All it does is give a person more credits.
If your aurgument was that the project was too expensive and the amount of dilithium needs to be reduced that would be different but fleet credits rewards was the issue of this thread.
Right now all upgrade projects have a deficit and guess where that comes from. The credits earned for gaining xp.
Want to buy consumables or the star base extras then you need more credits. To put credits in the system all they have to do it decrease the provisions.
the 1-1 ratio is a joke. i'd have to be playing this game for like a year or two before i'd even consider throwing away dili like that. its basicly something for nothing. no one ever wants to do it but at the end of the day some one has too and it sucks.
the 1-1 ratio is a joke. i'd have to be playing this game for like a year or two before i'd even consider throwing away dili like that. its basicly something for nothing. no one ever wants to do it but at the end of the day some one has too and it sucks.
I do see your point.
A character, earlier in its career, has a million urgent uses for dilithium, none of which are contributing to fleet bases.
Especially nowadays, with T5 access pretty much universally available, theres little to no incentive to donate to your own fleet.
Personally speaking, I can see how the 1-1 ratio arises, as imo there's enough fleet credit ingame as it is.
Therefore, I'd suggest some form of additional, personal incentive exclusively linked to dilithium contributions.
Whether its a small amount of lobi, zen or some other form of reward i don't mind.
Point is, the incentive for donating dilithium needs to be given more of a balance with keeping dilithium for ones own use.
you know, you guys argument is kind of inaccurate..
when my fleet was leveling up, not now tho since we hit t5 everything, dill was the 1st one to be filled.. next to XP..
it was the DOFFS that nobody wanted to fill up.. they are expensive and they give you very little FC..
after hitting t5, the projects are just for FC and not for fleet xp.. so now only the marks and xp gets filled up and everything else gets left..
they really need to come up with a way to earn FC better once you hit t5.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
It really does. The goal of this kind of content is to slow the players down. Obviously players want things to go faster. But that's not at all what the development team or designers want. They want to slow things down. It's the same reason behind the refinement cap. It's a time gate. Time gates are there on purpose.
That's perfectly fine if this game and all of us, if we are going to be around for the next few decades to a century.
It would help the game if something were done. Fleet marks, DOFFS, and all of the other things needed to fill fleet projects are the easiest to get. They give more FC for all of them than Dilithium. The one thing that takes longer to stock up on, and is limited in how many you can get each day, is the one thing that gives the least reward for donating.
Everyone does things because of the rewards, not just to do it. If they did give a decent amount of FC for the Dilithium, the donations will come more freely. I would like to see them match the same amount of FC that the fleet marks give. 50:1
Tim.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
Comments
yep, and marks are the easiest to get.. you can get them by standing around in a certain area and not do anything but chat in fleet chat.
after you hit t5 you should also be able to do a project that triples the earned amount of fc per all projects.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
1, Agreed.
2. The value of dil is directly linked to the maximum amount you can refine per character, per day. 8k is just a number. Some people would suggest raising the refine cap, but think about what that would do. Something that gives you 1440 dilithium is giving you 18% of your daily cap. If the cap was raised, for example, 25% to 10,000, that 1440 dilithium would only give you 14.4% of your daily cap. You would have to work harder to cap. But it doesn't end there. The dilithium exchange rate would normalize based on the number of people able to cap characters per day. In other words, the price of zen would skyrocket. It's far easier(and less harmful to the economy) to dial down the costs of dilithium directly, rather than injecting more dilithium into the economy.
3. Agreed. In addition, once you have bought everything you need from fleet holdings, fleet credits become worthless. At that point you're basically buying doffs to supply fleet projects or selling them on the exchange. Some more options for using fleet credits to make some cash would be nice.
But dil is used in more way than just fleet projects. It can be used to buy end game items from various store, ships (granted they are not so good), and most importantly perhaps, turned into zen.
On the other hand, fleet marks can be used for fleet projects and.... that's all.
Then, FM are so easy to have, while dil is a lot harder.
There is a reason why everyone fill the FM and expertise first, and then the dil take ages, when a fleet project pop.
I hate giving my dil, I do it for the fleet, because I like them. But honestly, everytime I fill this progress bar, I can count the zen I'm loosing. And the reward is just another slap in the face.
Now Cosmic be fair it's not like you to not take the whole, after all I did say what I would recommend for them to do. Plus if they sat on their bridge for two hours well they would have no right to complain about getting no dil.
Can you blame them for not doing it? Look at the posts on STFs, they are along the lines of x should be kept out, how to filter y from STFs, what's you're worst and so on and so forth. Hardly encouraging reading for those new to STFs. Now those people I talked about are actually showing consideration for other players by not wanting to balls up the run.
I used to have trouble making dil until I read your advice many moons ago, and I can easily get above my cap when I am in the mood, and that is without doing a single STF. No one can argue with you on the ways to make dil.
I also agree on giving a certain amount to the fleet, helping the fleet is also helping you. Even if fleet members gave 5% of the daily refine it would make things go faster, especially in the larger fleets. The trouble is the ratio is too low. Fleet marks can't be used for anything but fleet projects and are easy to get yet have a much higher ratio. Dil has too many calls on it, even a small increase in the dil:credit ratio could help.
I think they need to dial back the dil requirement for projects to be more comparable to fleet items and then increase the amount of fleet marks you can get from donating dil to fleet projects. Or they allow for unrefined dil to be donated to fleet projects. But, in order to keep progression reasonable they double the amount for unrefined. If it takes 300k dil for the upgrade it would take that or 600k unrefined.
Well, this makes sense.. lol.
Can you explain how to do THAT, please?? i can do about 10k dilithium in about 1-1,5 hours. But thats all.
And people keep forgetting the problem is not to gather dilithium, that is one of the most easiest things to do in STO. The real valuable is the low limited REFINED ammount you have and the high costs of everything in the game talking about dilithium. If im going to throw away all my refined cap of dil every day, at least give me something in return, for the same value. Or at least, not the same value but close enough. And because if i throw away all my dil , i am not saving anything for personal use. I cant trade it for zen. I cant invest it on reputation projects. I cant buy fleet equipment. I mean, we dont need to be really smart to realize the ratio should be really higher.
I understand what you mean about number two. Yes, increasing the refine cap would really alter the dil-zen economy. But even so, the amount of dil needed for stuff has gone up over all. A year ago we had only two reps: Omega and Romulan, along with the fleet starbase and eventual embassy.
Now we have 4 reps, going on 5, a starbase, the embassy, a dil mine, and a spire, and probably a new fleet holding eventually.
I agree that raising the cap would be a bad idea though.
There's a fourth part of the problem I forgot in my previous post:
People seem to have this idea of looking at only what they can do, not what everyone can do. What I mean by this is that a person sees a requirement for a fleet project, and only add to what they can fill a significant portion or all of in one shot.
So people will see an FM requirement, and dump all that they have freely, same for expertise. But a person will look at a DOFF requirement, say a hundred or more and think to themselves 'well I don't have enough DOFFs, ECs, or FCs to fill that, so I won't'. So they don't do anything about that area that still needs to get filled.
The problem that arises is a case of 'all or nothing' donations that becomes habitual. People donate FMs and Expertise without care, but only a few will grind out or buy the dil necessary to fill a project most or all of the way up, same for DOFFs.
The fleet system is supposed to be a group effort, but like I mentioned, people tend to consider only what they can do instead of what everyone can do. Which is why you can sometimes hear of decent sized fleets with a few members with millions of FC because they are the ones donating so much dil and whatnot.
Now I am just basing this off of my own fleet, and almost two years of experience as such. I could of course be completely wrong about a majority of the playerbase, but it's just what I've noticed.
It really does. The goal of this kind of content is to slow the players down. Obviously players want things to go faster. But that's not at all what the development team or designers want. They want to slow things down. It's the same reason behind the refinement cap. It's a time gate. Time gates are there on purpose.
I think this is fairly common.
Seems to me that, in all the fleets I've been in and now with the one i run, there are two sorts of players.
Let's call them easy donators and hard donators.
Easy donators will happily donate anything that doesn't make things harder for them.
So, they'll drop FMs as they get them, commodites as they drop for them, XP if they have lots and so on.
What they'll almost never donate is dilithium.
Hard donators will donate things that they could use themselves. Usually because they see the advantage of whatever is being built and think a little more long term.
Hard donators will put themselves behind somewhat in order to get further ahead in the future.
So, while dilithium may be relatively easy for a single toon to acquire, getting them to donate it is like pulling hens teeth.
However, given how much dilithium is required for anything above tier 2 in a fleet, I'm not sure extra FC is the best way forward.
Whats wanted is a personal incentive to give up that dilithium.
So, what I'd propose is that for every full 10k dilithium donated, the doner gets 10 lobi.
Simple.
If I could get them by donating 100,000 dil I would do it today.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Your principle remains valid.
You're absolutely right.
I posted the above, wandered off to make some breakfast and get some coffee, and figured I'd put a superfluous 0 in there.
10k dilithium for 1 lobi, would be a much better idea.
Because this should not be a replacement major source for lobi, rather a small personal incentive to donate dilithium.
Mind you, people are prepared to spend that anyway for the same result, so...
Yeah, lobi ships are pretty pricey and when you convert the currencies back to time, pretty time consuming too.
I figure, for small fleets especially, if there was a small added incentive to donate dil, then we'd see a lot of much happier small fleets.
As long as the incentive is small enough to not unbalance things, yet big enough to feel worth it, I think this (or something like it) would be a good thing.
I picked lobi, but it could be zen or any thing else that players value.
Point is, the 1-1 ration of donated dil to FC is not a sufficient incentive to get those easy donators to give fleets dilithium.
This hurts smaller fleets more than bigger fleets, And as Admiral of a very small fleet, anything that convinces my casual fleeties to give the fleet a little more of what they've earned with their limited time is a very good thing.
I am willing to guess its running the Dyson Sphere Battlezone Ground combat... along with tagging each of the dinos in all 3 zones in 1 run?
+ doffing
+ cat food
+ (if you have access to a fleet mine or a mining claim) mining
Same with Lobi, it would impact lockboxes so that is out...
Only reward that wouldn't impact real money would be EC, and anyone in a position to put in thousands of dil probably wouldn't care about bonus EC.
If the fleet credits exchanged was more in line in with what that dil is worth compared to what it can buy everywhere else in the game then everyone would be filling those projects. But because the mark pay out is so poor relative to the value of that dil, the best way to fill those holdings is for the fleet masters to buy staggering amounts of zen to convert to dil to fill those projects themselves. That gives dil on the exchange value which in turn reduces the amount of dil you give up per zen when saving towards things on the C Store. It's good for Cryptic because it makes them money. It's good for us because it keeps the servers afloat and makes our dil valuable when saving for C Store purchases. and it's good for fleet leaders because it's impossible to advance their fleet otherwise. You just have to find a fleet with leaders that have big pockets.
For example. Lets look at the T3 Dilithium mine upgrade. You will have the 15% fm and commodities discounts. You will have a 1 million fc deficit.
That is not including the Fleet Upgrade: Dilithium Store Discount III, Contract Specialty Tailor and Rich Dilithium Mining Daily Mission projects that come after the upgrade that all have a deficit as well.
You literally have to go into and t3 upgrade section with 1.5 mil credits in reserve just to cover the short fall of the costs of provisions.
The provisions costs weren't as bad with the embassy because people had millions of credits from the starbase.
The 1:1 dil to credit ratio is fine. What might encourage people to donate the dilithium is being able to buy the item they unlock at the end and have something to show for their troubles.
Yeah we know that, but the point is Cryptic has to strike a balance - people don't mind being milked if they're enjoying the value of what they get in return, and in most areas the balance isn't too bad in STO. But in this area, it's a bit off - and when the balance is off, annoyance sets in. Cryptic don't want to make a game that's annoying - otherwise there's nobody to milk.
People would put MORE dill in as its worth it now?
Therefore making it more of a sink and makes cryptic happy?
At least i would anyway.
All increasing the ratio of dilithium does is increase the amount of fleet credits coming in. That can already be changed by adjusting the amount of provisions that a project requires. The only reason why people are upset about the dilithium is that you can only refine 8000 a day making the 2 mil dil requirement hard to swallow.
Giving 10 credits per dil instead of one does not make 2 mil dil any easier. All it does is give a person more credits.
If your aurgument was that the project was too expensive and the amount of dilithium needs to be reduced that would be different but fleet credits rewards was the issue of this thread.
Right now all upgrade projects have a deficit and guess where that comes from. The credits earned for gaining xp.
Want to buy consumables or the star base extras then you need more credits. To put credits in the system all they have to do it decrease the provisions.
I do see your point.
A character, earlier in its career, has a million urgent uses for dilithium, none of which are contributing to fleet bases.
Especially nowadays, with T5 access pretty much universally available, theres little to no incentive to donate to your own fleet.
Personally speaking, I can see how the 1-1 ratio arises, as imo there's enough fleet credit ingame as it is.
Therefore, I'd suggest some form of additional, personal incentive exclusively linked to dilithium contributions.
Whether its a small amount of lobi, zen or some other form of reward i don't mind.
Point is, the incentive for donating dilithium needs to be given more of a balance with keeping dilithium for ones own use.
when my fleet was leveling up, not now tho since we hit t5 everything, dill was the 1st one to be filled.. next to XP..
it was the DOFFS that nobody wanted to fill up.. they are expensive and they give you very little FC..
after hitting t5, the projects are just for FC and not for fleet xp.. so now only the marks and xp gets filled up and everything else gets left..
they really need to come up with a way to earn FC better once you hit t5.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
That's perfectly fine if this game and all of us, if we are going to be around for the next few decades to a century.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Everyone does things because of the rewards, not just to do it. If they did give a decent amount of FC for the Dilithium, the donations will come more freely. I would like to see them match the same amount of FC that the fleet marks give. 50:1
Tim.