So far, 133k kills have been reported to my leaderboard. Data starts in August 2013, so a bit after NW's release. And obviously I only get a fraction of the total PVP data; all ground matches, C&H and many non-5v5 arena matches cannot even be reported and only a fraction of the population is reporting matches. I don't know by how much one has to multiply the 133k to get close to the true number, but it doesn't feel as if 3M for NW means that NW has a massively bigger PVP scene than STO.
Hilbert, lets say your leaderboard has caught half of the kills in the last 8 months since you started it. We can do the math there and see that Neverwinter averages 375,000 kills per month where sto would be at 33,000 per month. Isn't that a huge difference? I suck at math anyway but still.
The thing I do know is, that when I play NW, I can get into a PvP match in under 5 minutes at any level, from a little nooblet up to a lvl 60. But I don't want to play NW, I want to play STO because I love Star Trek.
Really though, I don't give a poo about the stats, what I'm on about is that we should urge Cryptic to bring over all the stuff from NW PvP to STO PvP. Gear Score based matchmaking, open world PvP zone with persistent territory control etc. etc.
One thing that would be great would be a redesign of Ker'rat. It needs to be much much larger in general than it is. And they need to fix some of the major bugs in there.
Hilbert, lets say your leaderboard has caught half of the kills in the last 8 months since you started it. We can do the math there and see that Neverwinter averages 375,000 kills per month where sto would be at 33,000 per month. Isn't that a huge difference? I suck at math anyway but still.
Half? I think that is way too low.
All ground pvp is missing from my data. All C&H is missing. Kerrat is missing. All space arena matches with less than 10 players, which sadly is a significant part of FvK matches these days, and of course all private matches that some more PVE-centric fleets are doing to avoid the public queues are missing.
And after subtracting all these (while ground may be comparatively small, C&H and kerrat will have high kill counts), one has to account for the fact that my board only captures matches which have a reporting player in them. Currently my data shows an average of ~30 reported matches per day. Surely there is much more than just one space arena pop per hour, considering that the average reported match is ~11 minutes long and the waiting times for FvF usually are not that bad (at VA).
It's really hard to guess, but I could easily imagine that the total kill count is 10x or more than what shows up on my board.
EDIT: The total sum of match durations that got recorded amounts to roughly 22% of the past 8 months. Considering that C&H runs in parallel and FvF during busy hours has multiple matches at the same time, I think it is a sound assumption that on average there is always a PVP match going (well, during night hours there won't be matches, but during prime time there will be multiple ones, so on average there is always pvp). This would give us a kill multiplier of at least 5, most likely more.
So far, 133k kills have been reported to my leaderboard. Data starts in August 2013, so a bit after NW's release. And obviously I only get a fraction of the total PVP data; all ground matches, C&H and many non-5v5 arena matches cannot even be reported and only a fraction of the population is reporting matches. I don't know by how much one has to multiply the 133k to get close to the true number, but it doesn't feel as if 3M for NW means that NW has a massively bigger PVP scene than STO.
And how much of that is 'airship' PvP? Let's face it, ground PvP in STO is beyond dead; a very few even bother with ground PvP; and perhaps NW PvP as it stands could indeed help the ground PvP portion of STO. The PvP most people really want to have working well is ship vs ship PvP, and unfortunately, there's nothing NW has that can be ported over to fix that atm.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
it's funny you guys pick the "half" thing to go on discussing and how it's wrong, and ignore the entire rest of my post or the whole freaking point to my post. i respect you guys and especially Hilbert but c'mon folks.
Maybe it's pointless to compare kill counts, but after all they are both Cryptic games and NW is getting all the goods. When will STO be up to speed with the rest of the MMO world? Or will it ever?
Last night I played World of Tanks for a couple hours of PvP fun, logged into STO to do my Dyson daily and logged off.
Open World PVP? Not interested.
Gearscore? I don't want PVP where gear is of significant importance. They should decrease the impact of gear, not base matchmaking on it.
But it's pointless to debate such things, because they won't happen anyway, at least not in a way that benefits PVP. And to illustrate that point, let's quote Cryptic.
There is the infamous "Upcoming PVP additions" post by Snix that gave us the "Snix day" tradition:
I wanted to give out some information on what's on the way for PvP in the near term.
[...]
4) Specific tournament queues that open for a fixed window of time (likely something short to start with; a weekend) that will track your individual performance and display the results with rewards given out for top honors.
More is on the way, but the above is in development (or already in testing) and should be out soon.
And more than a year later, StormShade replied to the suggestion of promoting STO via e-sports events:
I'd certainly love to do something along these lines at some point!
I think that STO's PvP is really strong, and would love to do some sort of an official tournament, or other type of contest to help promote it. It's something I'm hoping we can get into a lot more one day soon.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Now compare this to what actually happened and draw your own conclusions about how likely it is that we will see positive changes to PVP and not just blunt attempts at killing off the remaining organised pvp scene like they are doing with the pug queue (that will have no matchmaking of any sort).
I am going to embrace what cryptic is trying to do, because yes, I have waited 4 years for it, and I am grateful for ANY resource that actually put towards PvP and actually follow through on this time.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
If that is what Cryptic thinks makes for good pvp NW must really suck as well.
Gear score sucks because it is completely meaningless. I have played other games with gear score type systems... and or PvP stats on Gear, with tier systems. They amount to the same thing.
Often in the higher ranks/tiers or when matches feature a high "gear" score round. The game play blows. Because just earning a bunch of gear doesn't make YOU any better at PvP.
I have had high gear / gear score team mates in all of the games I have played that are atrocious. So balancing games based on the fact that those guys have managed to grind some gear is just stupid.
Seeing as his data is coming up... Mancoms systems shows a road to a FAR superior form of match making. One based on actual player data. There is no reason Cryptic couldn't implement a system like his on the back end for there PvP ques.
In fact it is also the solution to there PvE que issues. A system that tracked players effect on Qued PvE maps could also be used to adjust difficulty levels and build equal level teams for pve maps as well. This would allow them to remove highly annoying to player things like Mission debrief timers and missions that work on a Set timer. They stopped making STF style kill it and be done missions awhile back because people where completing them faster then they liked. With a proper Que matching system they could use it to match teams in PvE and PvP... and slide difficulty levels in PvE. This would mean the new pug que would be 100x better... and the PvE ques would have the notion of Power Creep be reduced to a min. Imagine never being able to complete an infected in under 7min... the better you got the more likely you would spawn with a team of = players and be facing 2-3 tac cubes instead of one ect.
In all to implement... it would take a proper programer a few weeks at most... it would add very little overhead... as storing 10-20 database entries for each toon in the game is not a major thing. At the end of each map pve or pvp a simple clean up process would run and add your cores from that map to your running average. Server load would be minimal.
Open World PVP? Not interested.
Gearscore? I don't want PVP where gear is of significant importance. They should decrease the impact of gear, not base matchmaking on it.
But it's pointless to debate such things, because they won't happen anyway, at least not in a way that benefits PVP. And to illustrate that point, let's quote Cryptic.
There is the infamous "Upcoming PVP additions" post by Snix that gave us the "Snix day" tradition:
And more than a year later, StormShade replied to the suggestion of promoting STO via e-sports events:
Now compare this to what actually happened and draw your own conclusions about how likely it is that we will see positive changes to PVP and not just blunt attempts at killing off the remaining organised pvp scene like they are doing with the pug queue (that will have no matchmaking of any sort).
This whole notion that Cryptic tried to shush away opvp folks before entering a brave new world of pvp has been one of the most consistent conspiracy theories i've seen on these forums.
Maybe it turned into a self fulfilling prophecy, maybe it was intentional, maybe it wasn't. In any case: Mission accomplished!
I would love some open world, expecting it to be around the corner when i joined and saw the sector space markings in the PvP zone, and then again when they introduced starbases.
But the pattern of one step into the right direction immediately followed by 10 into the opposite has brought about a new player base, and new expectations. Its been a small but vocal minority who saw the potential of e-sport like pvp in STO, and pretended that it was part of the design. Let's all be serious, it never was and never will be.
I think this is actually the final bone thrown to PvP.
Consider: All content produced is aimed at moving the story FORWARDS. When a new episode arrives, that is our "present", what comes next will be the "future", and all previous content is just people living in the past. This stuff is never really changed.
With the war apparently set to END in Season 9, all motivation for PvP conflict in the "present" ceases to exist. The unfactioning of the queues is essentially a reflection of this: PvP that no longer has a conflict.
But since the war is over, that means there will never be a reason for a conflict. And that means no further advancement of the PvP story. It's over. This is the last gasp. They will finally leave us alone now.
I think this is actually the final bone thrown to PvP.
Consider: All content produced is aimed at moving the story FORWARDS. When a new episode arrives, that is our "present", what comes next will be the "future", and all previous content is just people living in the past. This stuff is never really changed.
With the war apparently set to END in Season 9, all motivation for PvP conflict in the "present" ceases to exist. The unfactioning of the queues is essentially a reflection of this: PvP that no longer has a conflict.
But since the war is over, that means there will never be a reason for a conflict. And that means no further advancement of the PvP story. It's over. This is the last gasp. They will finally leave us alone now.
I am sure they have another "bone" to give us/or keep giving us.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
All PvP will become Cross Factions PvP, while ppl think this is good for the short term in reality this is the death kneel to both PvP and the Klingon Faction for the long term, any future potential pvp player that thinks they gonna make new klingon toon gonna say ''what's the point? i'm not gonna fight any faction thats unique since every1's mixed up, i rather play a Federation toon or make a Romulan instead since they have better cloaks, boff's than the Klingon side''
For me when Season 9 comes out... i'm done with PvP queue's, since this signals how lazy Cryptic's is with PvP to begin with, there's a reason why other mmo games is far successful with pvp and it's not making a Cross Faction mess, they Reward their players with all different types of currencies and gears and they added more Maps, Dynamics, Modes, Zones, etc... U don't see in SWTOR where a Jedi teams with a Sith to kill other Jedi, or a Horde teams with a Alliance to kill other Horde players, since the fact is, it does not fit the Lore.
I know alot of ppl over the years quited PvP in STO or quited STO all together because Cryptic does nothing to made PvP better, if u believe this Cross Faction mess is an update to PvP then u kidding urself since this is not an update at all, instead it's the same cr@p we have have for years, with the only change where every1 is thrown in together like a chex mix.
Cryptic needs to understand that cross faction is not the answer, but Rewarding the players in single matches like Fleet Marks, Currencies, Rep System, etc. just make it like it's PvE queue's.
Talking about PvE queue's there a reason why certain maps are being played more than others, because they got far better rewards.
Think of it as battle simulations, test drive for the alliance in their combat against the undine/voth etc...
Too bad we're at war, Undine or the Voth NPC's are not really threats... other players are, and there's nothing good about fighting a side that has nothing unique in any way.
Even if the War Arc is over, there would still be a Klingon-Federation Cold War... We did not see the Soviet Union or the United States fighting together to kill each other in that era did we?...
I feel like im getting a new car every other day but i can only drive it in my driveway, Over and over and over. Stop throwing all these new ships at us to buy or win in lockboxes and give us a place to drive our old ones. We need a universe thats a Big open sandbox. Not the way it is now.
It's fantasy game, can't use real world examples hahaha. :cool:
I can take examples from other MMO's such as WoW, ESO and SWTOR which does not involves Friendly players to team up with a Enemy players which they're at war with to kill other friendly players and the enemy killing their own ppl as well, all of which is the does not fit the Lore...
I can take examples from other MMO's such as WoW, ESO and SWTOR which does not involves Friendly players to team up with a Enemy players which they're at war with to kill other friendly players and the enemy killing their own ppl as well, all of which is the does not fit the Lore...
That's why we need more open pvp maps (like Ker'rat), for the in-game rp battles
Queued events are simulations, and can be anything. Think of them as Mirror Universe vs Prime Universe if it makes you feel better. [hey Cryptic, change the name]
Honestly, if I was designing from scratch, the queued events would be completely out-of-game, they would let you choose a predefined ship from a menu of choices and good luck to you. They would be quick-to-play twitcher matches and that's all.
If that is what Cryptic thinks makes for good pvp NW must really suck as well.
Gear score sucks because it is completely meaningless. I have played other games with gear score type systems... and or PvP stats on Gear, with tier systems. They amount to the same thing.
Often in the higher ranks/tiers or when matches feature a high "gear" score round. The game play blows. Because just earning a bunch of gear doesn't make YOU any better at PvP.
I have had high gear / gear score team mates in all of the games I have played that are atrocious. So balancing games based on the fact that those guys have managed to grind some gear is just stupid.
Seeing as his data is coming up... Mancoms systems shows a road to a FAR superior form of match making. One based on actual player data. There is no reason Cryptic couldn't implement a system like his on the back end for there PvP ques.
In fact it is also the solution to there PvE que issues. A system that tracked players effect on Qued PvE maps could also be used to adjust difficulty levels and build equal level teams for pve maps as well. This would allow them to remove highly annoying to player things like Mission debrief timers and missions that work on a Set timer. They stopped making STF style kill it and be done missions awhile back because people where completing them faster then they liked. With a proper Que matching system they could use it to match teams in PvE and PvP... and slide difficulty levels in PvE. This would mean the new pug que would be 100x better... and the PvE ques would have the notion of Power Creep be reduced to a min. Imagine never being able to complete an infected in under 7min... the better you got the more likely you would spawn with a team of = players and be facing 2-3 tac cubes instead of one ect.
In all to implement... it would take a proper programer a few weeks at most... it would add very little overhead... as storing 10-20 database entries for each toon in the game is not a major thing. At the end of each map pve or pvp a simple clean up process would run and add your cores from that map to your running average. Server load would be minimal.
If anything, Hiilbert's sytem works TOO well. Maybe he can enlighten us on the average match lengths he's recorded, but in my experience the well balanced matches according to his system lasted far far too long. Maybe some people enjoy that type of match but I don't. Flying in a circle for an hour plus waiting for sub nuke cool down timers is not my idea of fun. I got burnt out on those matches pretty quick and started avoiding TD matches too once his program started being used more often. And I'm not placing blame. Hilbert's got a good thing going.
I think its due to Cryptic being half TRIBBLE and letting all the TRIBBLE get outta control with shields and heals.
I'm not 100% against it or the idea but I can't always randomly commit to an intense hour plus arena match. Or even a 30 minute match for that matter. Some of us do have lives.
I don't claim to be an MMO expert or game design expert but I much prefer the WoT matchmaking system with the different tiers and matches being put together with equal numbers of the different tier tanks on each side. Seems to make for a more interesting match.
And you may disagree but I still think NW has a better developed PvP system in place compared to STO.
If anything, Hilbert's sytem works TOO well. Maybe he can enlighten us on the average match lengths he's recorded, but in my experience the well balanced matches according to his system lasted far far too long.
I cannot tell which of the recorded matches have been set up using my algorithm, so unfortunantely I cannot provide any numbers.
But it is true that these matches tend to last very long. Let me quote myself from a while back:
Actually, I think I understand his desire. He wants to log in, queue up, get a queue pop a couple of seconds later and then play a short match that he wins (or at least doesn't lose decisively).
I'm not even sure that he would like truly balanced matches because in the current environment balanced matches tend to last quite long (at least if it's not only escorts in the match).
In other words: This game has obstacles to short, balanced matches that go far beyond problems with the queue system.
presupposing pvp has to be for rp reasons... pointless.
Correct me here if I'm wrong, doffingcomrade, but what he's saying is that when they make gear/traits/ships/whatever, the whole faction-vs-faction bit is now out the window. Same for gear or equipment or powers which are faction locked for story reasons. You can see the first shades of this in the new Undine content with the Disruptor/Phaser gear from the Undine rep system. It's possible that in time Fleet gear might become cross-faction as well (though likely not without a "gotcha" or three attached to it). Looking back, this has probably been on the board since Taskforce Omega was formed.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
If anything, Hiilbert's sytem works TOO well. Maybe he can enlighten us on the average match lengths he's recorded, but in my experience the well balanced matches according to his system lasted far far too long. Maybe some people enjoy that type of match but I don't. Flying in a circle for an hour plus waiting for sub nuke cool down timers is not my idea of fun. I got burnt out on those matches pretty quick and started avoiding TD matches too once his program started being used more often. And I'm not placing blame. Hilbert's got a good thing going.
I can tell you from experience with other games that people ultimately don't want evenly-matched games, particularly those where they depend on other people. It creates a rather intensive situation in which someone else can TRIBBLE things up for you. Nobody really enjoys that. Sure, an evenly matched round sounds good on paper: Everyone wants a fair shake, right?
But in practice, a truly evenly matched anything is a gruelling stalemate that persists until someone makes a stupid mistake that costs their side the game. Then they get yelled at by their teammates, and in the end, everyone is exhausted.
Back not all that long ago, our group did things a bit differently: One player, generally believed to be the best, would be appointed team captain. He would pick his team, out of the participating players, generally those he felt were the best or the ones he liked most. The remainder would form the Other Team.
This team was destined to lose. The outcome was pretty much preordained. Everyone was ultimately pretty okay with this, since it took a LOT of pressure off. The players on the side which was certain to win didn't have to worry about making minor errors, because nothing they really did was going to cost them the game. Little mistakes were just things to laugh about, not things to get riled over. Meanwhile, the losing side wasn't under any particular pressure to win: Their goal was simply to put forth a valiant last stand, maybe set a record for how long they could last, and maybe personally impress the team choosers enough to get picked for the winning side. They still had goals to fight for, even though they were doomed.
And ultimately, everyone preferred it that way. Matches were quick, deaths were glorious, the one kill you managed to pull off against all odds meant something, and at the end, you were ready to go again. The teams weren't balanced. They weren't supposed to be balanced. It was going to be a curbstomp, and you knew what you were getting into. It's like knowingly going up against a premade: If manage to take a few out with you, or manage not to die, you've had a good run.
Correct me here if I'm wrong, doffingcomrade, but what he's saying is that when they make gear/traits/ships/whatever, the whole faction-vs-faction bit is now out the window. Same for gear or equipment or powers which are faction locked for story reasons. You can see the first shades of this in the new Undine content with the Disruptor/Phaser gear from the Undine rep system. It's possible that in time Fleet gear might become cross-faction as well (though likely not without a "gotcha" or three attached to it). Looking back, this has probably been on the board since Taskforce Omega was formed.
No, what I mean is that any major content added perpetuates the "story" in some way. New content looks forwards, not back. PvP was originally there to carry out the Fed vs. KDF war. That's why we had two sides to begin with. So long as we had a war, the possibility existed for things like Battlegrounds and Warzones akin to more Kerrats to be added.
Now the war is over. That tells us that PvP will never be more than a sideshow. It no longer has any meaning within the scope of the game's continuing story. That which remains persists as a monument to the past, a thing for newbies to tour through in their themepark run, but ultimately over. We aren't going to see any more Fed/KDF War. The Fed/KDF War is now a chapter forever closed.
Comments
Hilbert, lets say your leaderboard has caught half of the kills in the last 8 months since you started it. We can do the math there and see that Neverwinter averages 375,000 kills per month where sto would be at 33,000 per month. Isn't that a huge difference? I suck at math anyway but still.
The thing I do know is, that when I play NW, I can get into a PvP match in under 5 minutes at any level, from a little nooblet up to a lvl 60. But I don't want to play NW, I want to play STO because I love Star Trek.
Really though, I don't give a poo about the stats, what I'm on about is that we should urge Cryptic to bring over all the stuff from NW PvP to STO PvP. Gear Score based matchmaking, open world PvP zone with persistent territory control etc. etc.
One thing that would be great would be a redesign of Ker'rat. It needs to be much much larger in general than it is. And they need to fix some of the major bugs in there.
All ground pvp is missing from my data. All C&H is missing. Kerrat is missing. All space arena matches with less than 10 players, which sadly is a significant part of FvK matches these days, and of course all private matches that some more PVE-centric fleets are doing to avoid the public queues are missing.
And after subtracting all these (while ground may be comparatively small, C&H and kerrat will have high kill counts), one has to account for the fact that my board only captures matches which have a reporting player in them. Currently my data shows an average of ~30 reported matches per day. Surely there is much more than just one space arena pop per hour, considering that the average reported match is ~11 minutes long and the waiting times for FvF usually are not that bad (at VA).
It's really hard to guess, but I could easily imagine that the total kill count is 10x or more than what shows up on my board.
EDIT: The total sum of match durations that got recorded amounts to roughly 22% of the past 8 months. Considering that C&H runs in parallel and FvF during busy hours has multiple matches at the same time, I think it is a sound assumption that on average there is always a PVP match going (well, during night hours there won't be matches, but during prime time there will be multiple ones, so on average there is always pvp). This would give us a kill multiplier of at least 5, most likely more.
And how much of that is 'airship' PvP? Let's face it, ground PvP in STO is beyond dead; a very few even bother with ground PvP; and perhaps NW PvP as it stands could indeed help the ground PvP portion of STO. The PvP most people really want to have working well is ship vs ship PvP, and unfortunately, there's nothing NW has that can be ported over to fix that atm.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And probably way less than half the kils from queues
Maybe it's pointless to compare kill counts, but after all they are both Cryptic games and NW is getting all the goods. When will STO be up to speed with the rest of the MMO world? Or will it ever?
Last night I played World of Tanks for a couple hours of PvP fun, logged into STO to do my Dyson daily and logged off.
Gearscore? I don't want PVP where gear is of significant importance. They should decrease the impact of gear, not base matchmaking on it.
But it's pointless to debate such things, because they won't happen anyway, at least not in a way that benefits PVP. And to illustrate that point, let's quote Cryptic.
There is the infamous "Upcoming PVP additions" post by Snix that gave us the "Snix day" tradition: And more than a year later, StormShade replied to the suggestion of promoting STO via e-sports events: Now compare this to what actually happened and draw your own conclusions about how likely it is that we will see positive changes to PVP and not just blunt attempts at killing off the remaining organised pvp scene like they are doing with the pug queue (that will have no matchmaking of any sort).
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
If that is what Cryptic thinks makes for good pvp NW must really suck as well.
Gear score sucks because it is completely meaningless. I have played other games with gear score type systems... and or PvP stats on Gear, with tier systems. They amount to the same thing.
Often in the higher ranks/tiers or when matches feature a high "gear" score round. The game play blows. Because just earning a bunch of gear doesn't make YOU any better at PvP.
I have had high gear / gear score team mates in all of the games I have played that are atrocious. So balancing games based on the fact that those guys have managed to grind some gear is just stupid.
Seeing as his data is coming up... Mancoms systems shows a road to a FAR superior form of match making. One based on actual player data. There is no reason Cryptic couldn't implement a system like his on the back end for there PvP ques.
In fact it is also the solution to there PvE que issues. A system that tracked players effect on Qued PvE maps could also be used to adjust difficulty levels and build equal level teams for pve maps as well. This would allow them to remove highly annoying to player things like Mission debrief timers and missions that work on a Set timer. They stopped making STF style kill it and be done missions awhile back because people where completing them faster then they liked. With a proper Que matching system they could use it to match teams in PvE and PvP... and slide difficulty levels in PvE. This would mean the new pug que would be 100x better... and the PvE ques would have the notion of Power Creep be reduced to a min. Imagine never being able to complete an infected in under 7min... the better you got the more likely you would spawn with a team of = players and be facing 2-3 tac cubes instead of one ect.
In all to implement... it would take a proper programer a few weeks at most... it would add very little overhead... as storing 10-20 database entries for each toon in the game is not a major thing. At the end of each map pve or pvp a simple clean up process would run and add your cores from that map to your running average. Server load would be minimal.
This whole notion that Cryptic tried to shush away opvp folks before entering a brave new world of pvp has been one of the most consistent conspiracy theories i've seen on these forums.
Maybe it turned into a self fulfilling prophecy, maybe it was intentional, maybe it wasn't. In any case: Mission accomplished!
I would love some open world, expecting it to be around the corner when i joined and saw the sector space markings in the PvP zone, and then again when they introduced starbases.
But the pattern of one step into the right direction immediately followed by 10 into the opposite has brought about a new player base, and new expectations. Its been a small but vocal minority who saw the potential of e-sport like pvp in STO, and pretended that it was part of the design. Let's all be serious, it never was and never will be.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Consider: All content produced is aimed at moving the story FORWARDS. When a new episode arrives, that is our "present", what comes next will be the "future", and all previous content is just people living in the past. This stuff is never really changed.
With the war apparently set to END in Season 9, all motivation for PvP conflict in the "present" ceases to exist. The unfactioning of the queues is essentially a reflection of this: PvP that no longer has a conflict.
But since the war is over, that means there will never be a reason for a conflict. And that means no further advancement of the PvP story. It's over. This is the last gasp. They will finally leave us alone now.
I am sure they have another "bone" to give us/or keep giving us.
For me when Season 9 comes out... i'm done with PvP queue's, since this signals how lazy Cryptic's is with PvP to begin with, there's a reason why other mmo games is far successful with pvp and it's not making a Cross Faction mess, they Reward their players with all different types of currencies and gears and they added more Maps, Dynamics, Modes, Zones, etc... U don't see in SWTOR where a Jedi teams with a Sith to kill other Jedi, or a Horde teams with a Alliance to kill other Horde players, since the fact is, it does not fit the Lore.
I know alot of ppl over the years quited PvP in STO or quited STO all together because Cryptic does nothing to made PvP better, if u believe this Cross Faction mess is an update to PvP then u kidding urself since this is not an update at all, instead it's the same cr@p we have have for years, with the only change where every1 is thrown in together like a chex mix.
Cryptic needs to understand that cross faction is not the answer, but Rewarding the players in single matches like Fleet Marks, Currencies, Rep System, etc. just make it like it's PvE queue's.
Talking about PvE queue's there a reason why certain maps are being played more than others, because they got far better rewards.
Too bad we're at war, Undine or the Voth NPC's are not really threats... other players are, and there's nothing good about fighting a side that has nothing unique in any way.
Even if the War Arc is over, there would still be a Klingon-Federation Cold War... We did not see the Soviet Union or the United States fighting together to kill each other in that era did we?...
I can take examples from other MMO's such as WoW, ESO and SWTOR which does not involves Friendly players to team up with a Enemy players which they're at war with to kill other friendly players and the enemy killing their own ppl as well, all of which is the does not fit the Lore...
That's why we need more open pvp maps (like Ker'rat), for the in-game rp battles
Queued events are simulations, and can be anything. Think of them as Mirror Universe vs Prime Universe if it makes you feel better. [hey Cryptic, change the name]
Honestly, if I was designing from scratch, the queued events would be completely out-of-game, they would let you choose a predefined ship from a menu of choices and good luck to you. They would be quick-to-play twitcher matches and that's all.
If anything, Hiilbert's sytem works TOO well. Maybe he can enlighten us on the average match lengths he's recorded, but in my experience the well balanced matches according to his system lasted far far too long. Maybe some people enjoy that type of match but I don't. Flying in a circle for an hour plus waiting for sub nuke cool down timers is not my idea of fun. I got burnt out on those matches pretty quick and started avoiding TD matches too once his program started being used more often. And I'm not placing blame. Hilbert's got a good thing going.
I think its due to Cryptic being half TRIBBLE and letting all the TRIBBLE get outta control with shields and heals.
I'm not 100% against it or the idea but I can't always randomly commit to an intense hour plus arena match. Or even a 30 minute match for that matter. Some of us do have lives.
I don't claim to be an MMO expert or game design expert but I much prefer the WoT matchmaking system with the different tiers and matches being put together with equal numbers of the different tier tanks on each side. Seems to make for a more interesting match.
And you may disagree but I still think NW has a better developed PvP system in place compared to STO.
But it is true that these matches tend to last very long. Let me quote myself from a while back:
Correct me here if I'm wrong, doffingcomrade, but what he's saying is that when they make gear/traits/ships/whatever, the whole faction-vs-faction bit is now out the window. Same for gear or equipment or powers which are faction locked for story reasons. You can see the first shades of this in the new Undine content with the Disruptor/Phaser gear from the Undine rep system. It's possible that in time Fleet gear might become cross-faction as well (though likely not without a "gotcha" or three attached to it). Looking back, this has probably been on the board since Taskforce Omega was formed.
But in practice, a truly evenly matched anything is a gruelling stalemate that persists until someone makes a stupid mistake that costs their side the game. Then they get yelled at by their teammates, and in the end, everyone is exhausted.
Back not all that long ago, our group did things a bit differently: One player, generally believed to be the best, would be appointed team captain. He would pick his team, out of the participating players, generally those he felt were the best or the ones he liked most. The remainder would form the Other Team.
This team was destined to lose. The outcome was pretty much preordained. Everyone was ultimately pretty okay with this, since it took a LOT of pressure off. The players on the side which was certain to win didn't have to worry about making minor errors, because nothing they really did was going to cost them the game. Little mistakes were just things to laugh about, not things to get riled over. Meanwhile, the losing side wasn't under any particular pressure to win: Their goal was simply to put forth a valiant last stand, maybe set a record for how long they could last, and maybe personally impress the team choosers enough to get picked for the winning side. They still had goals to fight for, even though they were doomed.
And ultimately, everyone preferred it that way. Matches were quick, deaths were glorious, the one kill you managed to pull off against all odds meant something, and at the end, you were ready to go again. The teams weren't balanced. They weren't supposed to be balanced. It was going to be a curbstomp, and you knew what you were getting into. It's like knowingly going up against a premade: If manage to take a few out with you, or manage not to die, you've had a good run.
No, what I mean is that any major content added perpetuates the "story" in some way. New content looks forwards, not back. PvP was originally there to carry out the Fed vs. KDF war. That's why we had two sides to begin with. So long as we had a war, the possibility existed for things like Battlegrounds and Warzones akin to more Kerrats to be added.
Now the war is over. That tells us that PvP will never be more than a sideshow. It no longer has any meaning within the scope of the game's continuing story. That which remains persists as a monument to the past, a thing for newbies to tour through in their themepark run, but ultimately over. We aren't going to see any more Fed/KDF War. The Fed/KDF War is now a chapter forever closed.