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Two years too late
mimey2
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So, while all these possible upcoming changes to PvP are well and good, it feels like it is simply past the point of no return.
Honestly, they should have been doing this two years ago. I know people who've been around will say that they should've done it at like season 1, or 1.2, or 3, etc, but honestly, even two years ago would've been a lot better in the game's life cycle than trying to do something now.
About two years ago or so we were looking at the F2P conversion, roughly in season 5 or so. The game had no reps, no trait system, no lockbox ships (the first ones being the Bug and eventual Galor once lockboxes proper were introduced), a whole hell of a lot less power creep in general, and so on.
Was the game perfect? Not at all. It had plenty of flaws, even back then. But was a lot less of an unstable platform for PvP, plus there was still a pretty healthy core group of PvPers (more than now at least), and F2P did bring in a lot of players.
Still, it's a lot more of a PITA game nowadays, so while the changes are appreciated, it feels like it's simply too late anymore to make something of this whole situation. The strength is a lot less than it was back then for PvP in general.
Anywho, just needed to get that out of my system.
Honestly, they should have been doing this two years ago. I know people who've been around will say that they should've done it at like season 1, or 1.2, or 3, etc, but honestly, even two years ago would've been a lot better in the game's life cycle than trying to do something now.
About two years ago or so we were looking at the F2P conversion, roughly in season 5 or so. The game had no reps, no trait system, no lockbox ships (the first ones being the Bug and eventual Galor once lockboxes proper were introduced), a whole hell of a lot less power creep in general, and so on.
Was the game perfect? Not at all. It had plenty of flaws, even back then. But was a lot less of an unstable platform for PvP, plus there was still a pretty healthy core group of PvPers (more than now at least), and F2P did bring in a lot of players.
Still, it's a lot more of a PITA game nowadays, so while the changes are appreciated, it feels like it's simply too late anymore to make something of this whole situation. The strength is a lot less than it was back then for PvP in general.
Anywho, just needed to get that out of my system.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.pwlaughingtrendy wrote:I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
Post edited by mimey2 on
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@DevolvedOne
i really hate the frequency of the mandatory limited time grinds, that has directly resulted in my play time dropping like a rock. i'll play the repetitive content and log, having not enjoyed my time playing the slaughter 100 npcs content they call pve. casting gravity well, CSV and torp spread only stays interesting for so long. after that, theres a 75% chance i dont even want to look at the game afterward for at least 24 hours, but 25% of the time i try to que up for some good old pvp fun! 5% of the time that time of night will anything pop in a half hour i'll end up waiting. there used to be a good chance id be playing during a bonus mark hour, and i certainly loved those, now they are gone too. every weekend needs to be a bonus mark weekend in addition to whatever else.
once there was just lockboxes and stf gear, now theres rep out the TRIBBLE, lockboxes and the lobi store having twice as much stuff in them since the original 4 or so boxes with new ones every few months. it well and truly became impossible to try to run a guide thread that could keep up with all the new TRIBBLE that gets added, well unless i was getting payed to do it. WAY to many item sets now for me to ever bother grinding, so i'll know what would actually be the best to go with any particular ship and build. that should tell you there is entirely to much TRIBBLE in the game now, and they somehow keep increasing the pace at which they release new TRIBBLE.
if i had to guess, its these things that are absolutely killing the game for me that are the reason the opvp numbers are so tiny these days
What changes, other than the "avoid the Premades in the queues" change?
Hey Dude,..
I know your right but better late than never.
greetings
*** R.I.P. ***
Or even if it does, it won't be the PvP we here will want possibly.
Just feels really tough to keep trying is all I am saying.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
If they don't add new PvP scenarios/maps/dynamics, they're not going to attract a lot of people who are otherwise ambivalent toward PvP.
If they rolled out Territory Control PvP zones, that might be novel enough to revitalize interest.
A true ranking system might foster greater competition, but since this is not a PvP-centric game I'm not sure that's enough -- and debatable whether it meets the bang/buck criteria.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Welll, mancom's leaderboards seem to have garnered some interest with PVPers, but it's only a lone outsider's work. I could easily see leaderboards motivate some people to engage more actively in PvP.
Bang for Buck could ultimately mean that anything done for PvP is useless. But I am not sure if that is true in general for MMOs or F2P games, and might not be a problem specific to STO that Cryptic needs to fix to expand its revenue streams.
Blue I agree, they tried some sort of open PvP witht he KDF freighter mission and from what I understand few if any from the actual PvP community was asked but folks fromt he PVE community po-poed it because it did not favor their playing style. Basically the KDF would have gotten rewards for destroying freighters protected by feds, the mission would have been a true win you get rewarded you lose you get nothing.
Territory control was teased with the starbase roll out and then back burnered for whatever reason, I think the PvE community did not want their starbases attacked by true PvPers.
No, please don't get me wrong. I'm not referring to attacking other fleets' starbases or anything of the kind. I know why people don't like that idea and I agree with them.
A Convoy defense PvP scenario is still a good idea, IMO, but only as one more kind of scenario to play. And it would be cool to see that switched up so that sometimes it's a Blue Convoy and sometimes it's a Red.
When I'm talking about Territory Control, I'm referring to a PvP map similar to the Voth Battlezone or Contested Zone Tower Defense where both sides are open to players. The actual 'story' hook and zones would be different, but the territory mechanics would be similar.
Maybe something like the Colony Defense map, with Red vs. Blue instead of Player vs. NPC, and capture points like the Battlezone.
I agree with capnmanx that PvP events would certainly help.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Well, the Leaderboards could be tied into the rewards.
THe obvious choice is - top players get rewards. But that gets old for all the people that are not top and never really can.
So for those, you can add stuff like a "improved personal win/loss ratio, improved personal ranking, improved damage output, improved healing, improved crowd control use".
And aside from that, of course, a PvP reputation system. With the new passive ability slots, the power creep would not be as quite as bad as it would have in the past, the only remaining potential balance issues would be special PvP gear. Without adding to the PvP power creep? Maybe PvP special Weapons deal 2 % extra damage against pets and NPCs (so everyone wants it, without imbalancing PvP.)
And maybe some neat "comeback" powers.
Game play would be vastly better if all of the systems in the neutral zones between the blue/red/green factions were open PVP and could be claimed for your faction, with some kind of asset that you claim for your faction. Things like, defend a group of independent miners from pirate attacks, the faction that helps the most transports survive gets a reward. Then let the factions attack each other while they are trying to help protect the transports, so they can deny the opponent group from getting the reward. Or you can do something like take over a research station, that kind of thing. Players that assist in capturing the asset get a reward of some kind (Dilithium, and maybe an assignment buff, etc). Assets can be retaken by the other faction(s), and will also revert to neutral after an extended period.
Less queued instance maps, more living breathing Star Trek universe.
They can only be too late for *YOU*
I don't mean that derisively, just stating that in a game that doesn't end, things are only too late for individuals.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Except for when the PvP community now is a shell of its former self. The track record of Cryptic has been so bad that unless there are wholesale changes that balance PvP for all none of those that left for maybe games they are not huge fans of but has balanced PvP, will return. The current lowering of the bar masked be hind it will promote more teamwork mantra is a crock because those that are crying the most about being outmatched in PvP really do not want to work at it. Most of those just want a magic clickie that makes their builds viable in PvP regardless of what choices they made while leveling up. In short the BP and aceton beam cruiser wants to be equal to a true PvP cruiser.
I suppose, though that could leave someone in the awkward position of having got a fluke result and being stuck trying to best it. Personally, I think I'd be more focused on rooting out leechers; like rewards for inflicting x amount of damage, or help capture x number of points. You have to participate, but you won't be punished for not being good at it (beyond bruised pride).
Yeah, rewards are tricky. What could they offer that PVPers would want, that wouldn't mess up PVP even more? Maybe 'experimental' versions of existing weapons, with all new procs; then we could get actually useful phasers (that'd draw in a few extra players at least).
I really don't get the phaser hate I see everywhere. WHat's not to like about a shield-offline proc?
Anyway - a problem I tend to have with rewards for certain "participation" rewards is that sometimes the type of participation they reward becomes its own purpose - people build the maddest DPS builds, because DPS gives rewards, but to ensure the DPS is great, you might not actually do something that benefits the team in trying to win. For example, maybe no one brings a healer because the DPS rewards are better. Or you don't focus fire because your stats look better if you shoot a lot - the enemy team respawning doesn't add to your damage figure. Stuff like that.
Just look at the (PVE) Mirror Event. THat stupid thing was basically time-gated for everyone. Yet people went AFK, because they only optimzied for "Got my Dimensional Transporter THingy for the reputation". If they were a tiny bit smarter, they could have realized that they were stuck in that map anyway and if they tried harder, they would also have gotten some decent marks out of it.
Stuff like that happens all the time in games if the game rewards don't quite match to the game objective. So you need to be careful.
Of course, you also fail if you don't give newcomers and weaker players a chance to earn rewards. Whatever you do, game designer, be smart about it, think it through, and know the patterns you need to look out for and adjust.
This.
STO is a Cryptic Studios game - and players need to realize that in every MMO Cryptic has made to date; they've NEVER implemented PvP well - going all the way back to CoH. To expect them to suddenly break that paradigm in STO is just insanity.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Nothing but with all the cleanse doffs/EPtS/Batteries/EPtX Doffs that add power/plasmonic etc phaser proc is pretty much or an annoyance than an "Oh ****"
Go play Neverwinter and get back to us on that. It may not be perfect but Neverwinter has a thriving PvP community and they have a PvP system that is leagues beyond what we have in STO. Much better than what we'll have after Season 9.
Neverwinter posted on FB the other day that 3 million characters have "died" in their PvP in it's short run so far. That's a lot of playing.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I want the huge assault map back, it was like a true capture the flag, you go to one area grab the "flag" transfer it to your base and repeat. If you died while doing you you had to go and get it again. The bases had turrets and TB so once you got to your base the odds were in your favor in a 1 v 1. It required some low level strategy and you had to decloak to get the flag and to drop off the flag and you could be interrupted. the map was big enough IIRC it was 10 v 10. You would end up with 2 v 3, 1 v 1. It was not popular back in the day because only premades could do it because it required team work and communication, it actually was very hard for a team to do without communication.