That's a bit silly though. Your character has a career specialization. Those gears are what they're trained to use. What your saying is that someone with a degree in Industrial Engineering should also be able to know how to use stuff from the Biology labs just as well as a biologist.
The answer is NO! Class specialization exists for a reason. You can't have a free-for-all.
In real-life I'm an entrepreneur.
At times I've been HR, accounting, design, programming, sales - oh and yeah, the Grande Fromage.
I even change light bulbs and sweep the floor.
If you need a specialist - YES by all means specialize his gear.
But the real explorers know how to adapt. Change. Grow.
Swapping out 1 or 2 totally under used and ignored kit options is great. Adding things I would actually use is better.
I don't think the quote you provided really presents sound reasoning.
It doesn't take a degree to throw a smoke grenade or tell your armory officer to beam in a turret. Maybe a case could be argued that there isn't a "sonic pulse" button on my sci boff's tricorder and she went to school for a decade to learn how to make that happen, but I regard that with some scepticism.
Also, by that logic kits already don't make sense. What's a guy whose specialty is fabrication supposed to know about repairs and technical things a mechanic specializes in?
If anything, that's an argument for splitting the careers into 3 pairs of 2 similar careers each. Then we could start looking at powers. Why would a guy who builds drones know anything about building mortars? Etc....
Hailing all Captains! Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton, Systems Designer is showcasing the brand new Kit system! Learn about the exciting additions in this entry of the Season 9 News Dev Blog series.
Any dev comments on the prospect of future kits with cross-career modules?
Maybe an engineering kit with a single tac module slot, etc?
I hope cross class kits never see the light of day. The number of imbalances something like that would create is staggering. Ambush IV buffed Orbital Strike anyone? Medics with Stealth Module? It would ruin Ground PvP if they ever made a Cross-Class kit.
At times I've been HR, accounting, design, programming, sales - oh and yeah, the Grande Fromage.
I even change light bulbs and sweep the floor.
If you need a specialist - YES by all means specialize his gear.
But the real explorers know how to adapt. Change. Grow.
Swapping out 1 or 2 totally under used and ignored kit options is great. Adding things I would actually use is better.
But you've not been all of those things at the same time. You're usually hired to do only one of those positions at once, correct?
The issue with a universal Kit slot is that it would completely devalue the classes. I chose to play an engineer because I liked the idea of my character being more technical minded. If a tactical officer can now do those things, why I should I keep playing my Engineer?
Classes exist in an mmo for a reason: you're not supposed to be a jack of all trades. There are roles to be played. And while, yes, STO has blurred the lines, we still have them. Ground is the one area where the classes all have their unique advantages shown off. By adding even one universal slot, you discourage teaming on the ground (Hey, I don't need a medic now, I have a heal slot!) and effectively lower the value of all the classes.
I'm kind of looking forward to the new kits but have concerns...
What about the fleet kits that have IV items? The blog made it sound like the highest tier would be III.
"One important note about this new slotting system: older Kits never contained a full suite of Rank III powers, but new Kits can be filled with all Very Rare (equivalent in power to Rank III) Modules."
My question is this: if I convert my fleet medic kit that has Medical tricorder IV that gives +400 hp, will I get stuck with a med tricorder III that only gives +250 hp?
Awesome revamp! The only downside is that the [expletive] skill system will keep us from using the flexibility of the new kits to its full potential.
AdjudicatorHawk's mentioned that he has been thinking about stuff that'd go into a revamp of the trait and skill systems, though in a hypothetical "Well, if I was gonna do it, I'd do this..." sort of way. In that case, he was talking about how, if they ever had the chance to revamp the Trait system, he'd push for splitting them into a separate track for Ground and Space, so everyone doesn't just load up on Space traits.
They're definitely thinking about the skill system, but revamping it would be a major undertaking and require overhauling much of the math behind the game.
I'm kind of looking forward to the new kits but have concerns...
What about the fleet kits that have IV items? The blog made it sound like the highest tier would be III.
"One important note about this new slotting system: older Kits never contained a full suite of Rank III powers, but new Kits can be filled with all Very Rare (equivalent in power to Rank III) Modules."
My question is this: if I convert my fleet medic kit that has Medical tricorder IV that gives +400 hp, will I get stuck with a med tricorder III that only gives +250 hp?
You keep your Mk IV. The Mk IVs are still in the fleet system. However, your going to lose your Mk IIIs, if it stays as it is on tribble, and have to find replacement modules.
But you've not been all of those things at the same time. You're usually hired to do only one of those positions at once, correct?
The issue with a universal Kit slot is that it would completely devalue the classes. I chose to play an engineer because I liked the idea of my character being more technical minded. If a tactical officer can now do those things, why I should I keep playing my Engineer?
Classes exist in an mmo for a reason: you're not supposed to be a jack of all trades. There are roles to be played. And while, yes, STO has blurred the lines, we still have them. Ground is the one area where the classes all have their unique advantages shown off. By adding even one universal slot, you discourage teaming on the ground (Hey, I don't need a medic now, I have a heal slot!) and effectively lower the value of all the classes.
You wouldn't be a jack-of-ALL-trades without at least 2 universal slots. You already have a heal slot, they're called hypos.
I've had a chance to test the revamp on Tribble. The work done is truly fantastic.
I hope cross class kits never see the light of day. The number of imbalances something like that would create is staggering. Ambush IV buffed Orbital Strike anyone? Medics with Stealth Module? It would ruin Ground PvP if they ever made a Cross-Class kit.
But couldn't that be balanced out? Off the top of my head...
-the universal-slots could be disabled in pvp, restricting you to a smaller number of slots in pvp.
-universal slots could incorporate a recharge time or potency debuff of the power slotted. This could even simulate the officer's lack of training in this discipline.
Also, you'd have to consider that cross-profession powers would mean the player couldn't spec into them. A tac captain with a med generator power isn't going to have the strongest med generator, because he can't spec into "Turrets and Generators" skill anyway.
So even in the current build, there's already inherent disadvantages with such an idea to protect the "specialists-only" team.
Edited for spelling and grammar. I think I fixed it all.
My initial thought on the kit revamp, was that I liked it, however, the fact that we have to WORK AGAIN at getting good kit abilities? BAD BAD move AGAIN Cryptic. Way to falsify your reasoning for nerfing the Rep system for "power creep" issues. Sorry this is just another way power creep can happen. Now, if you were GIVEN the abilities first and foremost as you ranked up, then there would be no issue. However, this is a bad idea with making it that you have to work for the gear
Make up your mind either be against power creep, or not worry about it, not this in between BS
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
According to the trend with Cryptic too you are not allowed to keep what you grind for lol. They do more revamps/nerfing than anything when the game needs new content. They keep you grinding to keep getting back what they take from you in a never ending cycle.
My two cents is that I like the idea. I've often found myself having to switch between two different kits because some days I'm a fabricator and some days I'm a mechanic, this would allow me to do both, or at least slot the powers I use most.
My only question is why limit us to kits based on the three basic types and two basic sub-types? What if I want to have the powers of both a engineer and a tactical class? I have to switch between the two frames. Seems to me that while the nine frame kits are cool and nice, why not allow me to fully customize my kit to have the powers I want for my away missions without having to switch frames?
Don't take this as criticism, I love your idea and if it were left at that, I could be happier than before the frames. It would seem to be able to mix and match powers, as we can with starships through officers, would be a logical extension.
I don't think the quote you provided really presents sound reasoning.
It doesn't take a degree to throw a smoke grenade or tell your armory officer to beam in a turret. Maybe a case could be argued that there isn't a "sonic pulse" button on my sci boff's tricorder and she went to school for a decade to learn how to make that happen, but I regard that with some scepticism.
Also, by that logic kits already don't make sense. What's a guy whose specialty is fabrication supposed to know about repairs and technical things a mechanic specializes in?
If anything, that's an argument for splitting the careers into 3 pairs of 2 similar careers each. Then we could start looking at powers. Why would a guy who builds drones know anything about building mortars? Etc....
Idk. I just need better reasoning than that.
I'll have a go then.
Let's first assume that each career equates to a knowledge specialisation.
Tactical officers are better trained in advanced tactics than engineers, who are better trained in building turrets than scientists, who are better trained at administering medical aid.
I'll cede the idea that, in the old system, there's an argument for making all the tier 1 skills cross faction.
That would represent the sort of taks you list above; changing lightbulbs, sweeping floors......the sort of thing that anyone can do.
But tier 2 and above represents the sort of tasks that you need some training for. And as the tiers get higher, the need for training increases.
So how about this..........
For the new system, tier 1 versions of things are open class, every higher tier else is career specific.
Your scientists wants to lay mines? Fair enough but only to tier 1 proficiency.
Your engineers wants to throw grenades? Tier 1 only.
Your tactician wants to heal people? tier 1 first aid is all.
I don't lose anything. I don't have to engage with the new system unless I actually want to. If I do choose to, it's entirely possible that I may get myself some extra Cool Stuff my character can do.
Extra options are good. Greater flexibility is good. This sounds to me like both. Nice work Cryptic.
Let's first assume that each career equates to a knowledge specialisation.
Tactical officers are better trained in advanced tactics than engineers, who are better trained in building turrets than scientists, who are better trained at administering medical aid.
I'll cede the idea that, in the old system, there's an argument for making all the tier 1 skills cross faction.
That would represent the sort of taks you list above; changing lightbulbs, sweeping floors......the sort of thing that anyone can do.
But tier 2 and above represents the sort of tasks that you need some training for. And as the tiers get higher, the need for training increases.
So how about this..........
For the new system, tier 1 versions of things are open class, every higher tier else is career specific.
Your scientists wants to lay mines? Fair enough but only to tier 1 proficiency.
Your engineers wants to throw grenades? Tier 1 only.
Your tactician wants to heal people? tier 1 first aid is all.
I don't see much wrong with that. What's your method for tiering kit powers, though?
Having tested the kit changes on Tribble a fair bit, I'm really looking forward to these changes hitting Holodeck. Makes a really big difference being able to custom pick the powers which suit your play style or the enemy you're facing at any given time.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
As long as I can still set enemies on fire I'm happy.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
eidt...I hope cross class kits never see the light of day. The number of imbalances something like that would create is staggering. Ambush IV buffed Orbital Strike anyone? Medics with Stealth Module? It would ruin Ground PvP if they ever made a Cross-Class kit.
You're completely right. Why provide ground troops with the gear they can use, when they can have the gear we think they need?
How many US servicemen ordered mail-order body armor in Afghanistan? An entire industry grew to meet the demand. Meanwhile congressmen were forcing the military to buy more tanks to put into storage to keep factories open.
I understand the reasons behind class-centric ships. They're big, expensive. But custom gear for individuals? Seriously....
Does this mean that our current kits will no longer work? ... And I will have to kiss my beloved borg sci kit goodbye after all these years?
Not only will your beloved borg science kits continue to work, it'll be consigned to obsolescence now that anyone can create an identical kit... with a fifth power.
The option to switch out a few modules now and then will be quite helpful, as I've been carrying two kits for a while now as both kits have powers i really like, but also powers I underuse
I hope with the revamp i can find a much more satisfying mix of abilities for me
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
It's possible within the system, but a cross-career kit slot would be extremely powerful. A universal kit slot would be even more powerful. It's something we've planned around making eventually, but not something we're going to roll out with the launch of the revamp.
So the answer is no. At least not for season 9 launch.
Comments
In real-life I'm an entrepreneur.
At times I've been HR, accounting, design, programming, sales - oh and yeah, the Grande Fromage.
I even change light bulbs and sweep the floor.
If you need a specialist - YES by all means specialize his gear.
But the real explorers know how to adapt. Change. Grow.
Swapping out 1 or 2 totally under used and ignored kit options is great. Adding things I would actually use is better.
I don't think the quote you provided really presents sound reasoning.
It doesn't take a degree to throw a smoke grenade or tell your armory officer to beam in a turret. Maybe a case could be argued that there isn't a "sonic pulse" button on my sci boff's tricorder and she went to school for a decade to learn how to make that happen, but I regard that with some scepticism.
Also, by that logic kits already don't make sense. What's a guy whose specialty is fabrication supposed to know about repairs and technical things a mechanic specializes in?
If anything, that's an argument for splitting the careers into 3 pairs of 2 similar careers each. Then we could start looking at powers. Why would a guy who builds drones know anything about building mortars? Etc....
Idk. I just need better reasoning than that.
Um, yes they did. They're called purple-quality Mk X kits.
Hit the Exchange. You might find a few. (Or a bit over 400, if you break it out into the three careers and add.)
I hope cross class kits never see the light of day. The number of imbalances something like that would create is staggering. Ambush IV buffed Orbital Strike anyone? Medics with Stealth Module?
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
But you've not been all of those things at the same time. You're usually hired to do only one of those positions at once, correct?
The issue with a universal Kit slot is that it would completely devalue the classes. I chose to play an engineer because I liked the idea of my character being more technical minded. If a tactical officer can now do those things, why I should I keep playing my Engineer?
Classes exist in an mmo for a reason: you're not supposed to be a jack of all trades. There are roles to be played. And while, yes, STO has blurred the lines, we still have them. Ground is the one area where the classes all have their unique advantages shown off. By adding even one universal slot, you discourage teaming on the ground (Hey, I don't need a medic now, I have a heal slot!) and effectively lower the value of all the classes.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
So this was created to additionally make crafting relevant again as well . . . right?
I CAN craft purple MK XII 'frames' and 'moduals' . . . right? Or was that even considered?
What about the fleet kits that have IV items? The blog made it sound like the highest tier would be III.
"One important note about this new slotting system: older Kits never contained a full suite of Rank III powers, but new Kits can be filled with all Very Rare (equivalent in power to Rank III) Modules."
My question is this: if I convert my fleet medic kit that has Medical tricorder IV that gives +400 hp, will I get stuck with a med tricorder III that only gives +250 hp?
AdjudicatorHawk's mentioned that he has been thinking about stuff that'd go into a revamp of the trait and skill systems, though in a hypothetical "Well, if I was gonna do it, I'd do this..." sort of way. In that case, he was talking about how, if they ever had the chance to revamp the Trait system, he'd push for splitting them into a separate track for Ground and Space, so everyone doesn't just load up on Space traits.
They're definitely thinking about the skill system, but revamping it would be a major undertaking and require overhauling much of the math behind the game.
You keep your Mk IV. The Mk IVs are still in the fleet system. However, your going to lose your Mk IIIs, if it stays as it is on tribble, and have to find replacement modules.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
You wouldn't be a jack-of-ALL-trades without at least 2 universal slots. You already have a heal slot, they're called hypos.
But couldn't that be balanced out? Off the top of my head...
-the universal-slots could be disabled in pvp, restricting you to a smaller number of slots in pvp.
-universal slots could incorporate a recharge time or potency debuff of the power slotted. This could even simulate the officer's lack of training in this discipline.
Also, you'd have to consider that cross-profession powers would mean the player couldn't spec into them. A tac captain with a med generator power isn't going to have the strongest med generator, because he can't spec into "Turrets and Generators" skill anyway.
So even in the current build, there's already inherent disadvantages with such an idea to protect the "specialists-only" team.
Edited for spelling and grammar. I think I fixed it all.
Make up your mind either be against power creep, or not worry about it, not this in between BS
What have they taken away recently?
My only question is why limit us to kits based on the three basic types and two basic sub-types? What if I want to have the powers of both a engineer and a tactical class? I have to switch between the two frames. Seems to me that while the nine frame kits are cool and nice, why not allow me to fully customize my kit to have the powers I want for my away missions without having to switch frames?
Don't take this as criticism, I love your idea and if it were left at that, I could be happier than before the frames. It would seem to be able to mix and match powers, as we can with starships through officers, would be a logical extension.
I'll have a go then.
Let's first assume that each career equates to a knowledge specialisation.
Tactical officers are better trained in advanced tactics than engineers, who are better trained in building turrets than scientists, who are better trained at administering medical aid.
I'll cede the idea that, in the old system, there's an argument for making all the tier 1 skills cross faction.
That would represent the sort of taks you list above; changing lightbulbs, sweeping floors......the sort of thing that anyone can do.
But tier 2 and above represents the sort of tasks that you need some training for. And as the tiers get higher, the need for training increases.
So how about this..........
For the new system, tier 1 versions of things are open class, every higher tier else is career specific.
Your scientists wants to lay mines? Fair enough but only to tier 1 proficiency.
Your engineers wants to throw grenades? Tier 1 only.
Your tactician wants to heal people? tier 1 first aid is all.
I support the movement against any universal slots though.
I don't lose anything. I don't have to engage with the new system unless I actually want to. If I do choose to, it's entirely possible that I may get myself some extra Cool Stuff my character can do.
Extra options are good. Greater flexibility is good. This sounds to me like both. Nice work Cryptic.
Universal slots? I saw nothing about universal slots.
I don't see much wrong with that. What's your method for tiering kit powers, though?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You're completely right. Why provide ground troops with the gear they can use, when they can have the gear we think they need?
How many US servicemen ordered mail-order body armor in Afghanistan? An entire industry grew to meet the demand. Meanwhile congressmen were forcing the military to buy more tanks to put into storage to keep factories open.
I understand the reasons behind class-centric ships. They're big, expensive. But custom gear for individuals? Seriously....
But what about space suit slot? Is it not going to happen? Does space suit swapping stay in season 9?
Uh, yeah? Because EVA suits are Armor.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Not only will your beloved borg science kits continue to work, it'll be consigned to obsolescence now that anyone can create an identical kit... with a fifth power.
The option to switch out a few modules now and then will be quite helpful, as I've been carrying two kits for a while now as both kits have powers i really like, but also powers I underuse
I hope with the revamp i can find a much more satisfying mix of abilities for me
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=15624331#post15624331
So the answer is no. At least not for season 9 launch.