Okay, as someone in a large fleet, that has to set his cell phone alarm, if he wants to be able to invest my fleet marks in anything, I really have to ask: If Fleet marks are already a problem...how do you get the rest of the resources?
Getting EVERYTHING in a small to medium fleet is a problem. The biggest problem was since we are mostly semi-casual players, the changes from season 8 have seen us drop from 20 regulars down to 2!! A 90% drop in fleet activity. Only 2 of those were due to life/job commitments - the other 16 were just fed up with the game/grind/changes.
We are now stuck at a T4 base T1 Spire T2 Embassy and T3 Mine - and to be honest I am done contributing myself more than a tiny bit a week.
Last year I played 2-3 hrs a day - now I log on run a few doff missions and 20 min later I am gone.
I used to run a new toon ever other month and to get the benefits of subscription - I would sub for a month when leveling the toon - given that up as well.
Really I don't know what good stuff their "DATA" is telling them??!!:(:confused:
I disagree. I think they realized they put in too many DIL rewards and saw people trading it for Zen. Zen is supposed to cost money, so they nerfed EVERYTHING related to acquiring Zen.
Zen always costs money. If you buy it over the Exchange, it was not your money, but it was someone's money, and that someone was not Cryptic. That is - for Cryptic at least, but I think for players often, too - the beauty of the system.
I honestly think that I get more out of these mark/dilithium events then out of the hourlies. Because I never did and never will chase the hourlies. Too much micro-management for me.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Zen always costs money. If you buy it over the Exchange, it was not your money, but it was someone's money, and that someone was not Cryptic. That is - for Cryptic at least, but I think for players often, too - the beauty of the system.
I honestly think that I get more out of these mark/dilithium events then out of the hourlies. Because I never did and never will chase the hourlies. Too much micro-management for me.
The problem is the hours benefited both - remember the hourly bonuses ran for 12hrs of each weekend day. Sure you might have to plan a tiny bit more - but the payout is much better than once every 3 months!! And what happens if that weekend you are busy? 6 months between bonuses!!
The problem is the hours benefited both - remember the hourly bonuses ran for 12hrs of each weekend day. Sure you might have to plan a tiny bit more - but the payout is much better than once every 3 months!! And what happens if that weekend you are busy? 6 months between bonuses!!
I'm not a fan of these weekends as a replacement for the hourlies, but, no, the bonus marks hourlies ran for 9 out of every 24 hours at maximum, some days they ran for 8 or even 7. This is still a net loss, so long as the marks bonus weekend doesn't happen every 4 weeks on average.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
They are taking the commendations away and my guess is the project will now require marks, EC and XP, but I am sure they will be trying to get us to believe this is easier.
If commendations go, my fleet goes. That simple, instant death! (Unless, of course, Fleet Marks are removed completely.)
And if (new and slower) repping isn't worth doing anymore (as you only get a new power if you loose one), what's left to make you bother logging on?
I don't want like four bonus dilithium or marks weekends per year. That's about what it works out to right now.
Well aren't you just the rose-colored-glasses-wearing eternal optimist? Given how things are going, Cryptic doesn't want like 4 bonus mark/dilithium events per year either- I'd say their goal is getting those down to once a year each, and "replacing" them with grinds for every event, festival, reputation, and anything else they can shove some grind into.
So don't you worry about that pie-in-the-sky 4 mark/dilithium events per year problem, Cryptic's got a plan to solve that. :cool:
If commendations go, my fleet goes. That simple, instant death! (Unless, of course, Fleet Marks are removed completely.)
And if (new and slower) repping isn't worth doing anymore (as you only get a new power if you loose one), what's left to make you bother logging on?
Please! tell!
Why? They are reducing the cost of levelling the reps. Instead of it going up in cost each tier both in expertise and ec it will stay the same. In the end you end up saving them in the new rep system. t
I tried to do the math, but it's stupid and hard. Here's my takeaway: flexibility of play and choices for the players are being exchanged for high pressure, high time-commitment events that encourage/require people to set aside proscribed times to play (?!?!?) rather than enjoy the game when they are able and WANT to play. (Note: this is very different than a bunch of people and I getting together as a group and deciding we'd like to get together and play together.)
Some may view this as a 'commitment test' designed to benefit those who 'sacrifice' their personal time in exchange for 'the game'. I'm more inclined to see this as a simple power-dynamic where a group of corporate functionaries decide arbitrarily that their monetary desires for MOAR trump my desire for self-direction simply because they hold the keys to the kingdom.
Coming from the arbitrarily exterminated COH, this gives me great pause as an ongoing trend.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Zen always costs money. If you buy it over the Exchange, it was not your money, but it was someone's money, and that someone was not Cryptic. That is - for Cryptic at least, but I think for players often, too - the beauty of the system.
I honestly think that I get more out of these mark/dilithium events then out of the hourlies. Because I never did and never will chase the hourlies. Too much micro-management for me.
Mistake: "Chasing the hourlies" vs. "Bumping into" an hourly that coincided with your play.
My reaction to the old situation: "COOOL! A nice bonus to my playtime!, glad I caught it!"
Afterwards: "That was great! Now back to doffing, etc. until the next one."
My reaction to the new situation: "Cool, let me set things aside, tell the wife I have a Dil weekend, try to make sure I can max out the time, these things don't just come around all the time..."
Afterwards: "Well, I don't know if all that was worth it... but I'm exhausted. I don't know if I'll do it next time. I feel emotionally drained, and the benefit was... well, I'll admit, I DID get some benefit, but not sure if I want to play again right away. I think I'll watch some TV, or play some PS3. Phew."
Which customer is more desirable? I guess Cryptic is going to have to decide. They CAN change back at any time - it IS in their power.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I'm not a fan of these weekends as a replacement for the hourlies, but, no, the bonus marks hourlies ran for 9 out of every 24 hours at maximum, some days they ran for 8 or even 7. This is still a net loss, so long as the marks bonus weekend doesn't happen every 4 weeks on average.
I just calculated it based on the avg cycle - which happened on most days - as an example:
12am - 3am Bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
7am - 10am bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
2pm-5pm bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
9pm- 12pm bonus time
So that is 4 slots in this example - but it could be as low as 3
Still with an avg of 9 bonus hours per day x 365 = 3285 bonus hours per year (@ 25% bonus)
I think that beats approx. 360 hours per year @ 50% bonus
Whatever the calculation it seems to conflict with the stated goal of "netting players larger total rewards"
Seems the same as a politician saying the are going to cut your taxes AND increase you public services!!
Sadly all these changes are not encouraging people to play the game but to depart from the game, I have not spent one cent in Zen since the mother of all the grinds, my fleet we usually had every night between 12-15 players, now if we have 2 we are lucky.
This sucks, the game has fallen away so far from where the games was last year at this time that is not even funny.
Sadly all these changes are not encouraging people to play the game but to depart from the game, I have not spent one cent in Zen since the mother of all the grinds, my fleet we usually had every night between 12-15 players, now if we have 2 we are lucky.
This sucks, the game has fallen away so far from where the games was last year at this time that is not even funny.
I am in the same boat - fleet has basically died - it's sad. If season 9 does not bring things up I almost expect it to die completely.
Well, our fleet is doing pretty well lately... I think it is in spite of the changes; it's certainly not because of the changes.
We're a very casual fleet, and the leaders really do a lot to keep it supported (nearly T4 completed, I think, and I think we have spire, embassy, and mine either nearly or completed T3)
I can't see this helping fleets at all. It seems that slowing fleets (the majority of which are small) is the goal, and the small fleets are the ones that will feel this most acutely.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Oh, small fleets are suffering for more then this one reason. There have been too many changes at once. Large fleets have a high churn of players as well. The grind has literally reduced the life of a player to months. you level up too fast to hit a grind wall. Small fleets suffer more because it is hard to compete recruitment wise.
Cryptic seems to think that reducing rewards will increase play time. Sound theory since tasks take longer but the grind wall has not changed. Players are now seasonal and only show up with the seasons.
The problem with all these changes at one is there grind time got too large all at once. The Mark event mixed with the NWS farming reward change greatly reduced fleet marks generation. While the change to nws was unfortunate and not surprising would have been easier if the waited a month or 2 to change.
The rep marks does not matter so much for the event. Yes you could change the excess of mark to dil but the sponsorship token still makes it way easier even with out the mark event. Only 900 marks to complete the rep.
Even with the grind wall and reduced mark generation the bigger problem is this. We need the return of featured series. Players grind the grind wall because they have already played the story missions. Remastering story mission may be needed but I have already played them. The grind people are doing to themselves. There is nothing stopping people from not grinding and goofing off.
People show up at the start of the seasons to run the new missions and then grind a bit and go away until next season. The missions like "A Step Between Stars" come too infrequently or in the case of LOR people had access to the missions all at once and finished that content right away.
Featured series would have 5 episode spread out over 2 months. It kept us coming back. It gave us a reason to log in. Who knows maybe those seasonal people might log in every weekend and maybe after a new episode might be willing to grind a couple of missions.
Why? They are reducing the cost of levelling the reps. Instead of it going up in cost each tier both in expertise and ec it will stay the same. In the end you end up saving them in the new rep system. t
Sorry, got confused with " File Commendation Report".
But back on thread:
"I suppose we're meant to play Neverwinter during the week and STO at the weekends."
Oh, small fleets are suffering for more then this one reason. There have been too many changes at once. Large fleets have a high churn of players as well. The grind has literally reduced the life of a player to months. you level up too fast to hit a grind wall. Small fleets suffer more because it is hard to compete recruitment wise.
And because they lose more people.
There's a negative feedback loop, small fleets get slower, bigger fleets can absorb the changes more easily.
The gap gets bigger, individuals understandably feel stalled and move to the bigger fleets.
Now, a certain amount of this is healthy. Big fleets get a lot of advantages because, well, they're bigger. And thats just an intrinsic quality of things.
However, accelerating it is not a good idea.
There'll always be a trickle of players moving from smaller to bigger fleets, but it shouldn't be a flood.
Ok and what about those of us in small to medium fleets that are starving for Fleet marks?
You're supposed to join a mega fleet. Cryptic has long hated you for playing with the amount of people you want to play with. So trade up to be a number in a sea of captains or continue to suffer in silence.
You're supposed to join a mega fleet. Cryptic has long hated you for playing with the amount of people you want to play with. So trade up to be a number in a sea of captains or continue to suffer in silence.
Hatred? no. But they certainly know that there's a huge difference there.
I disagree. I think they realized they put in too many DIL rewards and saw people trading it for Zen. Zen is supposed to cost money, so they nerfed EVERYTHING related to acquiring Zen.
Remember: when they lose money, we pay. In this case, we lose perks (like gated 1-hour DIL events). They don't make the instant profits they feel entitled to with the Star Trek IP, we get to grind the Trek universe into oblivion. And let's face it -- this game only has a Star Trek skin. I gave up on in-game canon a long time ago. More proof that profits are proirity.
Except that logic is flawed. =Someone= had to buy that Zen so you could buy it with dilithium. The amount of dilithium entering the economy is irrelevant; the amount of Zen entering the economy is the only thing that matters. And Zen only gets into the economy in one of three ways: 1. lifetime subscription monthly stipend, 2. monthly subscription stipend, and 3. being purchased for real money.
Talking about the daily events.. is the Academy Event going back someday (i know its almost stupid to ask.. but meh)?? i really miss it, sigh.
I certainly hope not. That was the single most annoying thing in the game; people running around the banking and exchange areas of the academies shooting things? Good riddance.
Not saying they shouldn't add some new way to get those rewards; just so long as it doesn't involve people running around making horrendous amounts of noise (and lag) while I'm trying to concentrate on inventory management....
The removal of the daily events has destroyed the game for me.
I've ground through the MI event with 6 alts, but all this has done has removed all my motivation to play the game.
I'm seriously considering stopping my subscription and going and doing other things. When STO first started, yes it had flaws, but it wasn't the grind fest it's now become. And now, with these changes, the grind will last forever - it's impossible to get anywhere in the game.
I'm in a small fleet - so no progress is going to happen there. I've got T5 on all the reps (apart from Dyson) on only 1 of 6 alts. While the sponsorship helps that somewhat, removing the bonus events then negates this completely.
I can't play the hours and hours that others play, I do have a RL.
The removal of the daily events has destroyed the game for me.
I've ground through the MI event with 6 alts, but all this has done has removed all my motivation to play the game.
Don't play it. No one forces you. I did refuse to play it. The 50k dilithium are not worth the effort.
I'm seriously considering stopping my subscription and going and doing other things.
You could just start doing other things in the game except the things you evidently do not like.
When STO first started, yes it had flaws, but it wasn't the grind fest it's now become. And now, with these changes, the grind will last forever - it's impossible to get anywhere in the game.
Most stfs, fleet actions and other stuff doesn't last for more than 15 minutes. How long shall these missions even take to be completed? 1 minute? And the mark bonus during the former event was not a huge boost...
I can't play the hours and hours that others play, I do have a RL.
It seems that you consider this game as a...job. You are here to have fun and relax from RL. Play the content you prefer, there is hardly any difference if you complete your reputation in 2 months or 1 year. There is no need to feel obliged to rush through content.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Originally Posted by tacofangs I can develop the game just fine without visiting the forums.
Talking about the daily events.. is the Academy Event going back someday (i know its almost stupid to ask.. but meh)?? i really miss it, sigh.
Agreed - would like to see it back, even if in a modified form. While there was some shooting of photonics, was a non-violent way to earn some dilithium, and a reason to actually go to the Academy other than the Lore question. (Or chasing mini-Qs). The pay off if you actually ran the event to completion was decent for those who don't want to run a pile of STFs to earn marks - and no more mind-numbing than the mining.
Comments
Are they wrong?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=16048901#post16048901
Getting EVERYTHING in a small to medium fleet is a problem. The biggest problem was since we are mostly semi-casual players, the changes from season 8 have seen us drop from 20 regulars down to 2!! A 90% drop in fleet activity. Only 2 of those were due to life/job commitments - the other 16 were just fed up with the game/grind/changes.
We are now stuck at a T4 base T1 Spire T2 Embassy and T3 Mine - and to be honest I am done contributing myself more than a tiny bit a week.
Last year I played 2-3 hrs a day - now I log on run a few doff missions and 20 min later I am gone.
I used to run a new toon ever other month and to get the benefits of subscription - I would sub for a month when leveling the toon - given that up as well.
Really I don't know what good stuff their "DATA" is telling them??!!:(:confused:
I honestly think that I get more out of these mark/dilithium events then out of the hourlies. Because I never did and never will chase the hourlies. Too much micro-management for me.
The problem is the hours benefited both - remember the hourly bonuses ran for 12hrs of each weekend day. Sure you might have to plan a tiny bit more - but the payout is much better than once every 3 months!! And what happens if that weekend you are busy? 6 months between bonuses!!
I'm not a fan of these weekends as a replacement for the hourlies, but, no, the bonus marks hourlies ran for 9 out of every 24 hours at maximum, some days they ran for 8 or even 7. This is still a net loss, so long as the marks bonus weekend doesn't happen every 4 weeks on average.
If commendations go, my fleet goes. That simple, instant death! (Unless, of course, Fleet Marks are removed completely.)
And if (new and slower) repping isn't worth doing anymore (as you only get a new power if you loose one), what's left to make you bother logging on?
Please! tell!
Well aren't you just the rose-colored-glasses-wearing eternal optimist? Given how things are going, Cryptic doesn't want like 4 bonus mark/dilithium events per year either- I'd say their goal is getting those down to once a year each, and "replacing" them with grinds for every event, festival, reputation, and anything else they can shove some grind into.
So don't you worry about that pie-in-the-sky 4 mark/dilithium events per year problem, Cryptic's got a plan to solve that. :cool:
Why? They are reducing the cost of levelling the reps. Instead of it going up in cost each tier both in expertise and ec it will stay the same. In the end you end up saving them in the new rep system. t
Some may view this as a 'commitment test' designed to benefit those who 'sacrifice' their personal time in exchange for 'the game'. I'm more inclined to see this as a simple power-dynamic where a group of corporate functionaries decide arbitrarily that their monetary desires for MOAR trump my desire for self-direction simply because they hold the keys to the kingdom.
Coming from the arbitrarily exterminated COH, this gives me great pause as an ongoing trend.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Mistake: "Chasing the hourlies" vs. "Bumping into" an hourly that coincided with your play.
My reaction to the old situation: "COOOL! A nice bonus to my playtime!, glad I caught it!"
Afterwards: "That was great! Now back to doffing, etc. until the next one."
My reaction to the new situation: "Cool, let me set things aside, tell the wife I have a Dil weekend, try to make sure I can max out the time, these things don't just come around all the time..."
Afterwards: "Well, I don't know if all that was worth it... but I'm exhausted. I don't know if I'll do it next time. I feel emotionally drained, and the benefit was... well, I'll admit, I DID get some benefit, but not sure if I want to play again right away. I think I'll watch some TV, or play some PS3. Phew."
Which customer is more desirable? I guess Cryptic is going to have to decide. They CAN change back at any time - it IS in their power.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I just calculated it based on the avg cycle - which happened on most days - as an example:
12am - 3am Bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
7am - 10am bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
2pm-5pm bonus time
4 hours of other stuff
9pm- 12pm bonus time
So that is 4 slots in this example - but it could be as low as 3
Still with an avg of 9 bonus hours per day x 365 = 3285 bonus hours per year (@ 25% bonus)
I think that beats approx. 360 hours per year @ 50% bonus
Whatever the calculation it seems to conflict with the stated goal of "netting players larger total rewards"
Seems the same as a politician saying the are going to cut your taxes AND increase you public services!!
This sucks, the game has fallen away so far from where the games was last year at this time that is not even funny.
I am in the same boat - fleet has basically died - it's sad. If season 9 does not bring things up I almost expect it to die completely.
My character Tsin'xing
We're a very casual fleet, and the leaders really do a lot to keep it supported (nearly T4 completed, I think, and I think we have spire, embassy, and mine either nearly or completed T3)
I can't see this helping fleets at all. It seems that slowing fleets (the majority of which are small) is the goal, and the small fleets are the ones that will feel this most acutely.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Cryptic seems to think that reducing rewards will increase play time. Sound theory since tasks take longer but the grind wall has not changed. Players are now seasonal and only show up with the seasons.
The problem with all these changes at one is there grind time got too large all at once. The Mark event mixed with the NWS farming reward change greatly reduced fleet marks generation. While the change to nws was unfortunate and not surprising would have been easier if the waited a month or 2 to change.
The rep marks does not matter so much for the event. Yes you could change the excess of mark to dil but the sponsorship token still makes it way easier even with out the mark event. Only 900 marks to complete the rep.
Even with the grind wall and reduced mark generation the bigger problem is this. We need the return of featured series. Players grind the grind wall because they have already played the story missions. Remastering story mission may be needed but I have already played them. The grind people are doing to themselves. There is nothing stopping people from not grinding and goofing off.
People show up at the start of the seasons to run the new missions and then grind a bit and go away until next season. The missions like "A Step Between Stars" come too infrequently or in the case of LOR people had access to the missions all at once and finished that content right away.
Featured series would have 5 episode spread out over 2 months. It kept us coming back. It gave us a reason to log in. Who knows maybe those seasonal people might log in every weekend and maybe after a new episode might be willing to grind a couple of missions.
I am way sick of these event grind mission.
Sorry, got confused with " File Commendation Report".
But back on thread:
"I suppose we're meant to play Neverwinter during the week and STO at the weekends."
All part of a cunning plan, perhapse.
And because they lose more people.
There's a negative feedback loop, small fleets get slower, bigger fleets can absorb the changes more easily.
The gap gets bigger, individuals understandably feel stalled and move to the bigger fleets.
Now, a certain amount of this is healthy. Big fleets get a lot of advantages because, well, they're bigger. And thats just an intrinsic quality of things.
However, accelerating it is not a good idea.
There'll always be a trickle of players moving from smaller to bigger fleets, but it shouldn't be a flood.
You're supposed to join a mega fleet. Cryptic has long hated you for playing with the amount of people you want to play with. So trade up to be a number in a sea of captains or continue to suffer in silence.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Except that logic is flawed. =Someone= had to buy that Zen so you could buy it with dilithium. The amount of dilithium entering the economy is irrelevant; the amount of Zen entering the economy is the only thing that matters. And Zen only gets into the economy in one of three ways: 1. lifetime subscription monthly stipend, 2. monthly subscription stipend, and 3. being purchased for real money.
I certainly hope not. That was the single most annoying thing in the game; people running around the banking and exchange areas of the academies shooting things? Good riddance.
Not saying they shouldn't add some new way to get those rewards; just so long as it doesn't involve people running around making horrendous amounts of noise (and lag) while I'm trying to concentrate on inventory management....
BONUS =
Something welcome and often unexpected that accompanies and enhances something that is itself good (Oxford)
Something good that is more than what was expected or required (Merriam-Webster)
Something given or paid over and above what is due (Dictionary.com)
People got so used to having them, they feel cheated when it's taken away, or when it is more scarce.
* No more additional bnps. only 1 bnp per mission
* no more additional mark rolls. 60 marks per normal stf + optional
All is being replaced with daily mark bonus, I believe +20% marks on first mark mission of the day.
I've ground through the MI event with 6 alts, but all this has done has removed all my motivation to play the game.
I'm seriously considering stopping my subscription and going and doing other things. When STO first started, yes it had flaws, but it wasn't the grind fest it's now become. And now, with these changes, the grind will last forever - it's impossible to get anywhere in the game.
I'm in a small fleet - so no progress is going to happen there. I've got T5 on all the reps (apart from Dyson) on only 1 of 6 alts. While the sponsorship helps that somewhat, removing the bonus events then negates this completely.
I can't play the hours and hours that others play, I do have a RL.
Don't play it. No one forces you. I did refuse to play it. The 50k dilithium are not worth the effort.
You could just start doing other things in the game except the things you evidently do not like.
Most stfs, fleet actions and other stuff doesn't last for more than 15 minutes. How long shall these missions even take to be completed? 1 minute? And the mark bonus during the former event was not a huge boost...
It seems that you consider this game as a...job. You are here to have fun and relax from RL. Play the content you prefer, there is hardly any difference if you complete your reputation in 2 months or 1 year. There is no need to feel obliged to rush through content.
Agreed - would like to see it back, even if in a modified form. While there was some shooting of photonics, was a non-violent way to earn some dilithium, and a reason to actually go to the Academy other than the Lore question. (Or chasing mini-Qs). The pay off if you actually ran the event to completion was decent for those who don't want to run a pile of STFs to earn marks - and no more mind-numbing than the mining.