Reading this makes me wonder how many players actually are playing PvP.
To me, it always feels like they are some minority that has a bigger influence than all the other players.
I know for me I WANT to but cant... More often than not I que and then wait and wait and wait and either get to doing something else or just log out because I got sick of just sitting around waiting.
Also being an old timer - I was Klingon when all we had was PVP to level - I have been sick to death of those maps since a few months after the game started.
When I do get into a map on the rare occasion, the teams are often not equal or new people show up thru out the map so often the team balance is never right.
Then as far as the actual content goes its usually one of two things... You fire and fire and fire but don't really do any damage or an opposing player just shreds you like cardboard
To me it seems like they haven't touched PVP since the orginal beta
I would like to mention a point about tooltip terminology that virusdancer brought up in another thread. The tooltips for "Crucial Component Redistribution", "Advanced Hull Reinforcement", and "Integrated Nanofibers" all say "Damage Bonus Resistance Rating". First, I think "Bonus Damage Resistance Rating" would read better. Regardless of the order of the words, I don't think most people will realize that bonus DRR is not simply added your regular DRR, but is instead used somewhere else in the calculation of your final damage resistance.
The following passives give regular DRR:
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense
Active Hull Hardening
Active Armor Hardening
The more I think about it the more and more I fail to see the goals of this revamp being met.
Scaling number of Reputations problem
One problem with the old system was the fear of how to create new compelling traits and making sure their were not an overwhelming number of them. This problem still exists with the new system. Speaking hypothetically how many trait options for players to select 4 from can reasonably exist without making the new system extremely overwhelming and/or cumbersome? 100? 200? With how..complex some of them are how many can be created until they begin to have extremely odd interactions either with one another or edge case builds? Atleast the previous system merely gave extremely small bonuses to the point where some of them could have even been duplicated without much fear.
Fresh VA vs Vet VA problem/power creep
The big difference between the new VA and the Vet was not the rep traits. It was the difference between a good ship build and a poor ship build. A good ship build combining the right boff abilities, weapon setup, console setup, and doff selection using white gear will outperform a bad build in fleet gear with all the reputation traits. And now yet another layer of complexity has been added to creating a good ship build. True the former rep traits did create a choice but it was a choice between two options. Now it is a choice of 4 out of 10, how long till it is 4 out of 20 and even more overwhelming for a new player who has yet to achieve a solid understanding of STO mechanics? Making 10 picks with 2 options each is much easier for a human than selecting 4 out of a possible 10 every time.
Lastly it seems all the current trait options fall into atleast one of three categories.
1) Overly complex. This quote sums it up better than I could.
i am just getting really tired of needing a graduate degree in math to figure what the buffs even do... a 2% chance of X that ignores 5% of Y and can only stack 5x in a 30 sec period if the moon is a waning crescent.
2) Weak. When a single boff space trait is stronger than the trait it makes me question it's value for one of my limited slots.
3) Overly specific/nitch. I am not going to be swapping traits every other map. Additionally traits such as the AUX related nukara options are obviously amazing for my Vesta and terrible for practically anything else. In the past these were fine as they gave added incentive to everyone to have higher AUX power levels. Now they are strait up either the best trait you can pick, or the worst.
Maybe I'm just dense but I still see this entire thing as a step in the wrong direction.
I know for me I WANT to but cant... More often than not I que and then wait and wait and wait and either get to doing something else or just log out because I got sick of just sitting around waiting.
Also being an old timer - I was Klingon when all we had was PVP to level - I have been sick to death of those maps since a few months after the game started.
When I do get into a map on the rare occasion, the teams are often not equal or new people show up thru out the map so often the team balance is never right.
Then as far as the actual content goes its usually one of two things... You fire and fire and fire but don't really do any damage or an opposing player just shreds you like cardboard
To me it seems like they haven't touched PVP since the orginal beta
That makes me wonder even more why they seem to be so eager about the PvP - "balance"...
The more I think about it the more and more I fail to see the goals of this revamp being met.
Scaling number of Reputations problem
One problem with the old system was the fear of how to create new compelling traits and making sure their were not an overwhelming number of them. This problem still exists with the new system. Speaking hypothetically how many trait options for players to select 4 from can reasonably exist without making the new system extremely overwhelming and/or cumbersome? 100? 200? With how..complex some of them are how many can be created until they begin to have extremely odd interactions either with one another or edge case builds? Atleast the previous system merely gave extremely small bonuses to the point where some of them could have even been duplicated without much fear.
Fresh VA vs Vet VA problem/power creep
The big difference between the new VA and the Vet was not the rep traits. It was the difference between a good ship build and a poor ship build. A good ship build combining the right boff abilities, weapon setup, console setup, and doff selection using white gear will outperform a bad build in fleet gear with all the reputation traits. And now yet another layer of complexity has been added to creating a good ship build. True the former rep traits did create a choice but it was a choice between two options. Now it is a choice of 4 out of 10, how long till it is 4 out of 20 and even more overwhelming for a new player who has yet to achieve a solid understanding of STO mechanics? Making 10 picks with 2 options each is much easier for a human than selecting 4 out of a possible 10 every time.
Lastly it seems all the current trait options fall into atleast one of three categories.
1) Overly complex. This quote sums it up better than I could.
2) Weak. When a single boff space trait is stronger than the trait it makes me question it's value for one of my limited slots.
3) Overly specific/nitch. I am not going to be swapping traits every other map. Additionally traits such as the AUX related nukara options are obviously amazing for my Vesta and terrible for practically anything else. In the past these were fine as they gave added incentive to everyone to have higher AUX power levels. Now they are strait up either the best trait you can pick, or the worst.
Maybe I'm just dense but I still see this entire thing as a step in the wrong direction.
I agree. But while the system gets more and more complex to handle, I also feel like the variety of working builds seems to decrease... (Besides my feeling that the EliteSTFs have gotten harder in some way, but that's a matter on Holodeck...)
"I came from a time long gone, saw many other times...
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
The original post in here is well out of date. I spent that last couple hours discussing this at length with my fleet to open let update the values list to what the actually are on tribble.
(They Actual values come from tribble on 4/18/2014 before it was taken down)
Tier 1
Integrated Nanofibers: Doubled the bonus damage resistance offered by this power.
Deadly Aim: Increased the Critical Severity bonus from +10% to +20%. (Actual +16%)
Tier 2
Advanced Hull Reinforcement: Doubled the bonus damage resistance offered by this power.
Advanced Targeting Systems: Increased the Critical Severity bonus from +10% to +20%. (Actual +16%)
Tier 3
Active Armor Hardening: This power's tooltip was incorrect. It stated it offered between 0 and 75 damage resistance rating. It in fact only gave 0 to 50. This power's effect was boosted to match its tooltip. It now actually grants 0 to 75 damage resistance rating.
Vanquish: This power's damage resistance debuff that scales as the enemy's health decreases has been increased from 0-15 damage resistance debuff to 0-20 damage resistance debuff. (Actual remains at 0-15)
Tier 4
Active Hull Hardening: This power's tooltip was incorrect. It stated it offered between 0 and 75 damage resistance rating. It in fact only gave 0 to 50. This power's effect was boosted to match its tooltip. It now actually grants 0 to 75 damage resistance rating. (identical to the above)
Tactical Advantage: This power's damage resistance debuff that scales as the enemy's health decreases has been increased from 0-15 damage resistance debuff to 0-20 damage resistance debuff. (identical to the above)
Tier 1
Indomitable: Increased hit point bonus from +7.5% to 10%
Identify Vulnerability: Increased shield penetration from 5% to 10% (Actual +7.5%)
Tier 2
Fortified Hull: Increased hit point bonus from +5% to 7.5%
Enhanced Shield Penetration: Increased shield penetration from 2.5% to 5%
Tier 3
Emergency Fix: Increased heal over time effectiveness by 50%
Cryo Immobilizer Module: Increased damage over time by 33% and Root strength slightly
Tier 4
Auxilliary Power Configuration - Defense: This power no longer provides boosts to skills based on Auxiliary power level. Instead, it directly gives +Max Hull HP, +Max Shield HP, Kinetic Damage Resistance and Energy Damage Resistance based on Auxiliary power level. Additionally, it has been improved to provide a greater bonus per point of Auxiliary power. (Actual at 50 aux this translates to 2.7% at 125 aux it goes to 6% )
Auxilliary Power Configuration - Offense: This power no longer provides boosts to skills based on Auxiliary power level. Instead, it directly grants a bonus to all damage based on Auxiliary power level. In addition, this damage bonus will provide a larger bonus to damage than the previous one did and it will also provide a small Accuracy buff that scales with Aux power. (Actual at 50 aux this translates to 2.7% at 125 aux it goes to 6% )
New Romulus
Tier 1
Lethality: Increased critical hit chance bonus from 3 to 5%. (Actual 4%)
Enhanced Personal Shields: This power no longer grants Personal Shields Skill, instead it boosts your base Max Shield HP by 10%. The end result is a slightly larger boost to max shield HP than before.( actual 10%
Tier 2
Precision: Increased critical hit chance bonus from 3 to 5%. (Actual 4%)
Enhanced Shield Systems: This power no longer grants Starship Shield Systems Skill, instead it boosts your base Max Shield HP by 10%. The end result is a slightly larger boost to max shield HP than before.
Romulan Tier 3 and 4 Abilities:
Removed all "Chance on Crit" and replaced this functionality with an "On Next Crit" temporary effect. These effects are all consumed by applying their associated effects to self or foe, and will automatically refresh 20 seconds later.
This change was a purposeful move away from the idea of "chance-on-chance" and an attempt to normalize the opportunity that a player has of benefiting from this Reputation ability, should they choose to use it.
the values here vary.
The "Placate" effect of the Romulan Tier 4 Space ability has been replaced with "Weapons Offline"
Base duration of this effect has been increased from 2sec to 4sec
This debuff is now cleansed by Engineering Team instead of Science Team
(this is as advertised with the exception of the only happens under certain circumstances though it does not go on to explain what those circumstances are.)
Omega
Tier 1
Medical Nanites: Doubled the amount of self-regeneration provided by this power. In addition this power now provides double its new regeneration bonus outside of combat.
Omega Weapon Proficiency: This power no longer gives a bonus to Weapon Proficiency skill. Instead, it provides a direct bonus to damage. It now grants a larger bonus to damage than before.
(Actual +5% energy +10% melee, this is a decrease in accuracy thus a nerf.)
Tier 2
Hull-Repairing Nanites: Doubled the amount of hull regeneration provided by this power. In addition this power now provides double its regeneration bonus outside of combat.
Omega Weapon Training: This power no longer gives a bonus to Starship Weapons skill. Instead, it provides a direct bonus to damage. It now grants a larger bonus to damage than before.(Actual Kinetic Shearing and a Nerf)
Tier 3
Replaced the "Rotating Weapon Frequency" power with "Omega Graviton Pulse Module". This new power causes all of your ground weapon attacks to have a 5% chance to deal additional kinetic damage with 100% shield penetration. This damage is doubled against Borg.
Regenerative Shield Augmentation: Significantly improved this power's regeneration rate.
Tier 4
Omega Graviton Amplifier: Updated this proc's description to explain that it has a chance to be triggered with each weapon attack instead of once per cycle like other procs. This is merely a text change, this power has always worked like this. In addition, this proc's damage is doubled against the Borg.
Superior Shield Repair: Significantly increased the amount of shield regeneration per 6 seconds. (increased by not doubled)
So what did we learn form all that that? The Damage generate traits are the one hit hardest, they have lowest bonus and some have been complete replaced. It is particularly worth noting there is only one trait left that effect accuracy, is based purely upon Aux, so all Aux to bat, and most Escort builds will not be able to advantage of it . This a nerf specifically targeting dps and end game builds. Its consequences are going to be far reaching and are bad news for current end game players, it may indeed lower the bar for new players but its not going to help them in the long run.
In a lateral leveling situation which is how this game has been running for several years, this opens up many problem. It paints Advancement into a corner, after this goes live, all new reputations will have to offer measurable advantage over the past ones, without that they simply will not be selected, they may be ground for a piece of gear but there will be no need continue after that piece is achieved. Past reputations will fall on the wayside as well, new players will select the traits they want and only level to those points.
It is poor game design to require power creep for advancement in a lateral leveling systems. It in fact defeats the whole purpose of lateral leveling.
In short taking steps that increases the attractiveness of healing, tanking and non-energy primary builds isn't going to suddenly move the player base from trying achieve the highest dps possible. They are simply going to select the nerfed abilities that effect damage, and try anyways. I expect we will see a surge in the use of raiders and breen escorts. It may very well see a torp added to what had been pure beam boats but its not going end beam boats or A2B builds.
This is also not going to be helpful in the long run. It's a short fix at best, to a very limited constituency and will come at the price of upsetting the current end game player bases.
At the very least think ahead and apply the ship build swapping tech to the trait system so players don't have click 16 tiny boxes before swapping maps.
I already canceled my sub hopefully something will be done to fix this if/when the cap is increases.
Until then Good Luck.
Could a bonus package be added somewhere when you hit T5 New Romulus Reputation? There's no way to get a box at T5 currently that contains a random weapon. I'd like to play with some Romulan Disruptors on a few chars already at T5 before ponying up for higher mark/better mods through the Rep store on them. The continuing support 'Upgrade' only gives dilithium.
Looks like the daily limit on number of rep projects that can be run each day is reset by the claim next tier mission, So for example its possible to run 2 x 200XP projects then claim your rep tier and then run another 2 x 200XP rep projects all within the same 24 period. If you don't claim a rep tier or your within the XP range of two tiers you're limited to 2 x 200XP projects per day.
Also text says you can run 3 of these 200xp projects per day, however tribble's only allowing me to run 2 of them before it locks out the 200xp projects for 0xp projects (Dyson rep appears to allow 3 however, but the others seem to be limiting to 2 - haven't tried 8472 as I haven't got the marks for this to allow me to try it).
Comments
I know for me I WANT to but cant... More often than not I que and then wait and wait and wait and either get to doing something else or just log out because I got sick of just sitting around waiting.
Also being an old timer - I was Klingon when all we had was PVP to level - I have been sick to death of those maps since a few months after the game started.
When I do get into a map on the rare occasion, the teams are often not equal or new people show up thru out the map so often the team balance is never right.
Then as far as the actual content goes its usually one of two things... You fire and fire and fire but don't really do any damage or an opposing player just shreds you like cardboard
To me it seems like they haven't touched PVP since the orginal beta
The following passives give regular DRR:
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense
Active Hull Hardening
Active Armor Hardening
The following passives give bonus DRR:
Crucial Component Redistribution
Advanced Hull Reinforcement
Integrated Nanofibers
Scaling number of Reputations problem
One problem with the old system was the fear of how to create new compelling traits and making sure their were not an overwhelming number of them. This problem still exists with the new system. Speaking hypothetically how many trait options for players to select 4 from can reasonably exist without making the new system extremely overwhelming and/or cumbersome? 100? 200? With how..complex some of them are how many can be created until they begin to have extremely odd interactions either with one another or edge case builds? Atleast the previous system merely gave extremely small bonuses to the point where some of them could have even been duplicated without much fear.
Fresh VA vs Vet VA problem/power creep
The big difference between the new VA and the Vet was not the rep traits. It was the difference between a good ship build and a poor ship build. A good ship build combining the right boff abilities, weapon setup, console setup, and doff selection using white gear will outperform a bad build in fleet gear with all the reputation traits. And now yet another layer of complexity has been added to creating a good ship build. True the former rep traits did create a choice but it was a choice between two options. Now it is a choice of 4 out of 10, how long till it is 4 out of 20 and even more overwhelming for a new player who has yet to achieve a solid understanding of STO mechanics? Making 10 picks with 2 options each is much easier for a human than selecting 4 out of a possible 10 every time.
Lastly it seems all the current trait options fall into atleast one of three categories.
1) Overly complex. This quote sums it up better than I could.
2) Weak. When a single boff space trait is stronger than the trait it makes me question it's value for one of my limited slots.
3) Overly specific/nitch. I am not going to be swapping traits every other map. Additionally traits such as the AUX related nukara options are obviously amazing for my Vesta and terrible for practically anything else. In the past these were fine as they gave added incentive to everyone to have higher AUX power levels. Now they are strait up either the best trait you can pick, or the worst.
Maybe I'm just dense but I still see this entire thing as a step in the wrong direction.
I agree. But while the system gets more and more complex to handle, I also feel like the variety of working builds seems to decrease...
(Besides my feeling that the EliteSTFs have gotten harder in some way, but that's a matter on Holodeck...)
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
(They Actual values come from tribble on 4/18/2014 before it was taken down)
Tier 1
Integrated Nanofibers: Doubled the bonus damage resistance offered by this power.
Deadly Aim: Increased the Critical Severity bonus from +10% to +20%. (Actual +16%)
Tier 2
Advanced Hull Reinforcement: Doubled the bonus damage resistance offered by this power.
Advanced Targeting Systems: Increased the Critical Severity bonus from +10% to +20%. (Actual +16%)
Tier 3
Active Armor Hardening: This power's tooltip was incorrect. It stated it offered between 0 and 75 damage resistance rating. It in fact only gave 0 to 50. This power's effect was boosted to match its tooltip. It now actually grants 0 to 75 damage resistance rating.
Vanquish: This power's damage resistance debuff that scales as the enemy's health decreases has been increased from 0-15 damage resistance debuff to 0-20 damage resistance debuff. (Actual remains at 0-15)
Tier 4
Active Hull Hardening: This power's tooltip was incorrect. It stated it offered between 0 and 75 damage resistance rating. It in fact only gave 0 to 50. This power's effect was boosted to match its tooltip. It now actually grants 0 to 75 damage resistance rating. (identical to the above)
Tactical Advantage: This power's damage resistance debuff that scales as the enemy's health decreases has been increased from 0-15 damage resistance debuff to 0-20 damage resistance debuff. (identical to the above)
Tier 1
Indomitable: Increased hit point bonus from +7.5% to 10%
Identify Vulnerability: Increased shield penetration from 5% to 10% (Actual +7.5%)
Tier 2
Fortified Hull: Increased hit point bonus from +5% to 7.5%
Enhanced Shield Penetration: Increased shield penetration from 2.5% to 5%
Tier 3
Emergency Fix: Increased heal over time effectiveness by 50%
Cryo Immobilizer Module: Increased damage over time by 33% and Root strength slightly
Tier 4
Auxilliary Power Configuration - Defense: This power no longer provides boosts to skills based on Auxiliary power level. Instead, it directly gives +Max Hull HP, +Max Shield HP, Kinetic Damage Resistance and Energy Damage Resistance based on Auxiliary power level. Additionally, it has been improved to provide a greater bonus per point of Auxiliary power. (Actual at 50 aux this translates to 2.7% at 125 aux it goes to 6% )
Auxilliary Power Configuration - Offense: This power no longer provides boosts to skills based on Auxiliary power level. Instead, it directly grants a bonus to all damage based on Auxiliary power level. In addition, this damage bonus will provide a larger bonus to damage than the previous one did and it will also provide a small Accuracy buff that scales with Aux power. (Actual at 50 aux this translates to 2.7% at 125 aux it goes to 6% )
New Romulus
Tier 1
Lethality: Increased critical hit chance bonus from 3 to 5%. (Actual 4%)
Enhanced Personal Shields: This power no longer grants Personal Shields Skill, instead it boosts your base Max Shield HP by 10%. The end result is a slightly larger boost to max shield HP than before.( actual 10%
Tier 2
Precision: Increased critical hit chance bonus from 3 to 5%. (Actual 4%)
Enhanced Shield Systems: This power no longer grants Starship Shield Systems Skill, instead it boosts your base Max Shield HP by 10%. The end result is a slightly larger boost to max shield HP than before.
Romulan Tier 3 and 4 Abilities:
Removed all "Chance on Crit" and replaced this functionality with an "On Next Crit" temporary effect. These effects are all consumed by applying their associated effects to self or foe, and will automatically refresh 20 seconds later.
This change was a purposeful move away from the idea of "chance-on-chance" and an attempt to normalize the opportunity that a player has of benefiting from this Reputation ability, should they choose to use it.
the values here vary.
The "Placate" effect of the Romulan Tier 4 Space ability has been replaced with "Weapons Offline"
Base duration of this effect has been increased from 2sec to 4sec
This debuff is now cleansed by Engineering Team instead of Science Team
(this is as advertised with the exception of the only happens under certain circumstances though it does not go on to explain what those circumstances are.)
Omega
Tier 1
Medical Nanites: Doubled the amount of self-regeneration provided by this power. In addition this power now provides double its new regeneration bonus outside of combat.
Omega Weapon Proficiency: This power no longer gives a bonus to Weapon Proficiency skill. Instead, it provides a direct bonus to damage. It now grants a larger bonus to damage than before.
(Actual +5% energy +10% melee, this is a decrease in accuracy thus a nerf.)
Tier 2
Hull-Repairing Nanites: Doubled the amount of hull regeneration provided by this power. In addition this power now provides double its regeneration bonus outside of combat.
Omega Weapon Training: This power no longer gives a bonus to Starship Weapons skill. Instead, it provides a direct bonus to damage. It now grants a larger bonus to damage than before.(Actual Kinetic Shearing and a Nerf)
Tier 3
Replaced the "Rotating Weapon Frequency" power with "Omega Graviton Pulse Module". This new power causes all of your ground weapon attacks to have a 5% chance to deal additional kinetic damage with 100% shield penetration. This damage is doubled against Borg.
Regenerative Shield Augmentation: Significantly improved this power's regeneration rate.
Tier 4
Omega Graviton Amplifier: Updated this proc's description to explain that it has a chance to be triggered with each weapon attack instead of once per cycle like other procs. This is merely a text change, this power has always worked like this. In addition, this proc's damage is doubled against the Borg.
Superior Shield Repair: Significantly increased the amount of shield regeneration per 6 seconds. (increased by not doubled)
So what did we learn form all that that? The Damage generate traits are the one hit hardest, they have lowest bonus and some have been complete replaced. It is particularly worth noting there is only one trait left that effect accuracy, is based purely upon Aux, so all Aux to bat, and most Escort builds will not be able to advantage of it . This a nerf specifically targeting dps and end game builds. Its consequences are going to be far reaching and are bad news for current end game players, it may indeed lower the bar for new players but its not going to help them in the long run.
In a lateral leveling situation which is how this game has been running for several years, this opens up many problem. It paints Advancement into a corner, after this goes live, all new reputations will have to offer measurable advantage over the past ones, without that they simply will not be selected, they may be ground for a piece of gear but there will be no need continue after that piece is achieved. Past reputations will fall on the wayside as well, new players will select the traits they want and only level to those points.
It is poor game design to require power creep for advancement in a lateral leveling systems. It in fact defeats the whole purpose of lateral leveling.
In short taking steps that increases the attractiveness of healing, tanking and non-energy primary builds isn't going to suddenly move the player base from trying achieve the highest dps possible. They are simply going to select the nerfed abilities that effect damage, and try anyways. I expect we will see a surge in the use of raiders and breen escorts. It may very well see a torp added to what had been pure beam boats but its not going end beam boats or A2B builds.
This is also not going to be helpful in the long run. It's a short fix at best, to a very limited constituency and will come at the price of upsetting the current end game player bases.
At the very least think ahead and apply the ship build swapping tech to the trait system so players don't have click 16 tiny boxes before swapping maps.
I already canceled my sub hopefully something will be done to fix this if/when the cap is increases.
Until then Good Luck.
Also text says you can run 3 of these 200xp projects per day, however tribble's only allowing me to run 2 of them before it locks out the 200xp projects for 0xp projects (Dyson rep appears to allow 3 however, but the others seem to be limiting to 2 - haven't tried 8472 as I haven't got the marks for this to allow me to try it).