Jellyfish

ejsphcrisp

Question:
If the Jellyfish was designed and created in this timeline/reality, will we get a chance to pilot one in STO?

a3001

Devs said "maybe", but nothing solid.

dracounguis

I would hope not. It was a one-off ship designed to stop the subspace explosion thingamabob not something off a production line. Plus, it strikes me as too starwarsie

daqhegh

dracounguis wrote: »

I would hope not. It was a one-off ship designed to stop the subspace explosion thingamabob not something off a production line. Plus, it strikes me as too starwarsie

I thought it was an energy-sucking space creature with semi-shapeshifting abilities?

Unless it's a pet (which we already have far too many of) or a holoemitter (which should be rechargeable but aren't), I don't see the point.

stardestroyer001

Legally speaking here.

The Jellyfish (and by extension, the U.S.S. Kelvin type and the Narada) should be a part of the prime universe, since they exist "before" the battle between the Narada and the Kelvin.

That being said, those three ships have made their screen debut in the Star Trek XI movie, which falls under the Paramount umbrella. CBS doesn't have the legal rights to allow the game to use those vessels.

And thus, it is illegal for CBS to grant the use of that ship(s) in this game, and by extension, illegal for Cryptic to create/use those assets for the game.

Sorry

denizenvi

It certainly fits in the Prime universe, but whether the rights are available is unclear.

We do know the game can use the Prime-universe events set up for the 2009 movie, including the destruction of Romulus. Events implied in the Countdown comic are also used, such as Data's revival in B9 and Picard's ambassadorship. These were all presumably agreed upon before the game was released.

Whether the game can use actual art designs is more unclear. Several designs from the movie are said to exist in the Prime universe. These include the Kelvin, Jellyfish, and Narada. Of these, only the Narada's Borg-augmented design has been hinted at in STO, so it's possible that basic art cues are easy enough to negotiate, but full-on designs might not be.

It's possible that the actual visual designs like the Jellyfish and Kelvin are Paramount property, but something using somewhat similar elements wouldn't be too hard to approve. I honestly don't know, but all we have is the Tal Shiar ship precedent to go on.

stardestroyer001

denizenvi wrote: »

Whether the game can use actual art designs is more unclear. Several designs from the movie are said to exist in the Prime universe. These include the Kelvin, Jellyfish, and Narada. Of these, only the Narada's Borg-augmented design has been hinted at in STO, so it's possible that basic art cues are easy enough to negotiate, but full-on designs might not be.

It's possible that the actual visual designs like the Jellyfish and Kelvin are Paramount property, but something using somewhat similar elements wouldn't be too hard to approve. I honestly don't know, but all we have is the Tal Shiar ship precedent to go on.

In regards to the first part:

Unlike the planet Romulus (which has been featured already in TNG, DS9 and movies), the Jellyfish, Narada and Kelvin are unique to the Star Trek XI movie. The rights to use those vessels belong to Paramount.

In regards to the second part. STO has done this before, in the form of the Lhaisr Tal Shiar ship, and more recently the Avengeance Battle Cruiser for the Feds. (See what I did there?). Creating new ships with general characteristics seems to be within Cryptic's rights, but where the line is drawn between original and a copy is unclear.

jeffel82

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

Unlike the planet Romulus (which has been featured already in TNG, DS9 and movies), the Jellyfish, Narada and Kelvin are unique to the Star Trek XI movie. The rights to use those vessels belong to Paramount.

Red matter?

What would the Jellyfish even be in the game? A shuttle?

stardestroyer001

jeffel82 wrote: »

Red matter?

What would the Jellyfish even be in the game? A shuttle?

Oh right, the red matter. To be honest, I don't know who actually knows where the line between originality and copying exists. Perhaps it is limited to characters and ships?

And lmao, Jellyfish as an overpowered sci shuttle. PvP players (like me?) would cry "OP plz nerf".

unangbangkay

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

Legally speaking here.

The Jellyfish (and by extension, the U.S.S. Kelvin type and the Narada) should be a part of the prime universe, since they exist "before" the battle between the Narada and the Kelvin.

That being said, those three ships have made their screen debut in the Star Trek XI movie, which falls under the Paramount umbrella. CBS doesn't have the legal rights to allow the game to use those vessels.

And thus, it is illegal for CBS to grant the use of that ship(s) in this game, and by extension, illegal for Cryptic to create/use those assets for the game.

Sorry

It's not so much "illegal" as it is a rights issue that Cryptic and PWE (and probably CBS by extension) would have to spend time and money negotiating with Paramount and whoever else has their fingers in the JJ-Trek pie.

So, theoretically, if Cryptic/PWE made the right offer, the rights could be negotiated for practically any ship to be added to STO. It's really just a question of what kinds of deals can be made and the rules that CBS or whoever else sets down (like a rule against T5 Connies ).

After all, ships like the Narada exist in novels, comics and side material that are supposedly official tie-ins with STO fiction (however loose). Furthermore, ships like the Ambassador and Vesta both had to be negotiated separately from whatever agreement set STO's initial ship complement, so it's certainly proof that new rights CAN be negotiated.

Red matter?

What would the Jellyfish even be in the game? A shuttle?

Given the size the Jellyfish is almost definitely a small craft. and it seems to have some form of cannon-based weapon , so I'm imagining something like the Scorpion Fighter or Peregrine in scale, with a gimmick loosely based on the Red Matter Capacitor.

hypl

I can only see this as a pet. They might do some cross promotion with Paramount or something, maybe when JJTrek trilogy DVD sets come out... :P

killdozer9211

I wanna thank stardestroyer for his civil and clear explanation of the situation. A refreshing read as opposed to the typical mouth-foaming NOJJTREK rageful neckbeard posts.

I for one hope they someday find a way to incorporate a Kelvin design. I always dug that look.

j0hn41

I want the space jellyfish from Encounter at Farpoint as a player starship.

stardestroyer001

killdozer9211 wrote: »

I wanna thank stardestroyer for his civil and clear explanation of the situation. A refreshing read as opposed to the typical mouth-foaming NOJJTREK rageful neckbeard posts.

Thanks for the "thanks".

starswordc

killdozer9211 wrote: »

I for one hope they someday find a way to incorporate a Kelvin design. I always dug that look.

*cough* Freedom-class *cough hack*

stardestroyer001

starswordc wrote: »

*cough* Freedom-class *cough hack*

I'm still waiting for the Enterprise-C to make its way into the game.

No no, not the one from Yesterday's Enterprise.

The wall mural one.

artan42

It IS legal for it to be ingame.

It appeared in Countdown, that makes it joint CBS and Paramount, the same way we have the Red Matter converter, Nero's tattoo, Hobus, and the destruction of Romulus ingame.

revandarklighter

jeffel82 wrote: »

Red matter?

What would the Jellyfish even be in the game? A shuttle?

Wouldnt know any other use for it.

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

Legally speaking here.

The Jellyfish (and by extension, the U.S.S. Kelvin type and the Narada) should be a part of the prime universe, since they exist "before" the battle between the Narada and the Kelvin.

That being said, those three ships have made their screen debut in the Star Trek XI movie, which falls under the Paramount umbrella. CBS doesn't have the legal rights to allow the game to use those vessels.

And thus, it is illegal for CBS to grant the use of that ship(s) in this game, and by extension, illegal for Cryptic to create/use those assets for the game.

Sorry

Legally spoken wrong.

Everything from "our timeline" which means that it appeared in countdown/ before the the time travel can be addet. That would include the jellyfish and the Narrada.

I wouldnt want any of it in the game, but thats the legal situation.

timelord79

Everything about the legal situation has already been said.

If it ever makes it's way into the game it will probably be a crazy fast science based shuttle with sensor analysis, cannon capability and a red matter console that creates mini black holes.


Though I'd like to see Data's Scout ship from Insurrection first!

bergins

j0hn41 wrote: »

I want the space jellyfish from Encounter at Farpoint as a player starship.

Honestly, I kinda wondered if this was what was being asked for at first. I've seen the movies (own the 2nd one) but since "Jellyfish" isn't a name used in the JJ Films, you have to be versed in JJ Lore to know that is Spock's shuttle. I am, happily, not so versed, although I now am, at least in regards to this ship. Since I had to look it up, here's some info relevant to discussing ship-class/armament:

According to information on the Blu-ray version, the ship is 178 feet (54.25 meters) long. The white bolts fired by the Jellyfish were identified in the script of Star Trek as torpedoes. [2] A dossier on the Star Trek movie website stated that the Jellyfish was a single-occupancy vessel with the maximum warp speed of warp factor 8.

The only weapons mentioned in the wiki are 4 torp tubes, all front. No cannons.

I vote for the Farpoint Jellyfish before the JJellyfish.

jeffel82

bergins wrote: »

Honestly, I kinda wondered if this was what was being asked for at first. I've seen the movies (own the 2nd one) but since "Jellyfish" isn't a name used in the JJ Films, you have to be versed in JJ Lore to know that is Spock's shuttle. I am, happily, not so versed, although I now am, at least in regards to this ship.

The "Countdown" comic prequel to the first Abrams movie is worth a look, if only because STO accepts it as canon for the purpose of its own storyline.

It introduces the Jellyfish, The Vault, Data being Captain of the Enterprise, Worf being a KDF General, Picard's time as Ambassador to Vulcan, and other plot points which have been integrated into the game's backstory.

revandarklighter

jeffel82 wrote: »

The "Countdown" comic prequel to the first Abrams movie is worth a look, if only because STO accepts it as canon for the purpose of its own storyline.

It introduces the Jellyfish, The Vault, Data being Captain of the Enterprise, Worf being a KDF General, Picard's time as Ambassador to Vulcan, and other plot points which have been integrated into the game's backstory.

Yes but really only for that. It is actually really bad. Just like the movie that followed...

jeffel82

revandarklighter wrote: »

Yes but really only for that. It is actually really bad. Just like the movie that followed...

I liked it, but I have to admit it's not great.

Mostly fan service, trying to squeeze in as many TNG characters/references as possible.

However, I thought it did a good job of fleshing out Nero's character and motivations.

I also enjoyed the film, for what it was, but that's another thread entirely.

revandarklighter

jeffel82 wrote: »

I liked it, but I have to admit it's not great.

Mostly fan service, trying to squeeze in as many TNG characters/references as possible.

However, I thought it did a good job of fleshing out Nero's character and motivations.

I also enjoyed the film, for what it was, but that's another thread entirely.

I hated it.
In my opinion it was not fan service, it was character assassination for the tng characters. They were only there to get beaten up be Nero to show how awesome new Kirk is because he could beat Nero with 100 years old tech on his first day in Starfleet, while an entire modern Klingon fleet,the enterprise e and legends like Picard data and Worf didn't even have a hint of a chance.

timelord79

bergins wrote: »

Since I had to look it up, here's some info relevant to discussing ship-class/armament:The only weapons mentioned in the wiki are 4 torp tubes, all front. No cannons.

I am goig with what I saw on screen over a wiki artikel and that didn't look like torpedos but phaser cannons to me.

moosooman

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

Oh right, the red matter. To be honest, I don't know who actually knows where the line between originality and copying exists. Perhaps it is limited to characters and ships?

And lmao, Jellyfish as an overpowered sci shuttle. PvP players (like me?) would cry "OP plz nerf".

its got to be a shuttle if at all lol

stardestroyer001

revandarklighter wrote: »

I hated it.
In my opinion it was not fan service, it was character assassination for the tng characters. They were only there to get beaten up be Nero to show how awesome new Kirk is because he could beat Nero with 100 years old tech on his first day in Starfleet, while an entire modern Klingon fleet,the enterprise e and legends like Picard data and Worf didn't even have a hint of a chance.

All I can say is, the Klingons must have stripped the Narada of advanced technology while Nero was in captivity in the prison world. Once Nero and his gang returned to the ship, they didn't have the parts or knowledge of how to restore all the systems. Effctively, the ship was nowhere close in sophistication as it was the day it was retrofitted.

jeffel82

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

All I can say is, the Klingons must have stripped the Narada of advanced technology while Nero was in captivity in the prison world. Once Nero and his gang returned to the ship, they didn't have the parts or knowledge of how to restore all the systems. Effctively, the ship was nowhere close in sophistication as it was the day it was retrofitted.

The "Nero" comic series basically says that the USS Kelvin did a lot of damage when George Kirk rammed the Narada with it, allowing it to be overrun by the Klingons (you clearly know this, in light of your reference to the prison world).

Twenty-five years later, after the Narada came back online, it was powerful enough to wipe out a Klingon fleet from that era, followed by the Starfleet force sent to Vulcan.

After that, the Narada really didn't see any direct combat. Its greatest failure was failing to notice the Enterprise hiding at Titan, which could be attributed to either damaged sensors or Nero's crew simply not paying attention (they were busy drilling into Earth at the time).

After that, the Narada was taken down from the inside after Kirk and Spock beamed over and stole the Jellyfish. The Enterprise shot down its torpedos, but didn't engage the Narada directly until they had detonated the red matter, presumably crippling the Narada for good.

moosooman

I liked Nero a good honest Romulan after a fair life...

stardestroyer001

jeffel82 wrote: »

The "Nero" comic series basically says that the USS Kelvin did a lot of damage when George Kirk rammed the Narada with it, allowing it to be overrun by the Klingons (you clearly know this, in light of your reference to the prison world).

Twenty-five years later, after the Narada came back online, it was powerful enough to wipe out a Klingon fleet from that era, followed by the Starfleet force sent to Vulcan.

After that, the Narada really didn't see any direct combat. Its greatest failure was failing to notice the Enterprise hiding at Titan, which could be attributed to either damaged sensors or Nero's crew simply not paying attention (they were busy drilling into Earth at the time).

After that, the Narada was taken down from the inside after Kirk and Spock beamed over and stole the Jellyfish. The Enterprise shot down its torpedos, but didn't engage the Narada directly until they had detonated the red matter, presumably crippling the Narada for good.

^This.

Kirk +crew were pretty smart in avoiding the big guns of the Narada.

Also, everyone (except us two?) seems to forget that Nero and Gang Inc. are a bunch of miners, not a trained military crew.

kestrellius

Re: Jellyfish weapons. They are torpedoes (the white blobs, that is), at least according to Memory Alpha. They're identified as such in the script, so in lieu of any other source, that's considered canon. It might have some other weapons as well though. Haven't seen anything to contradict that.