The Intrepid's Ablative Armor Generator

stardestroyer001

With all of the discussion revolving around a wanted "Intrepid Revamp" and "Warship Voyager", I thought I should add in a small thread on the Long-Range Science Vessel Retrofit's unique console, the Ablative Armor Generator.

In Lore
From Memory Alpha: (WARNING: SPOILERS)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ablative_generator wrote:

Ablative generators were an advanced armor technology used by Starfleet. Shield emitters generated a nearly-impenetrable layer of armor around the hull of a ship so equipped. This defensive technology was acquired by the crew of USS Voyager in 2378 from Admiral Kathryn Janeway of an alternate timeline.

In the alternate timeline, ablative generators were developed as an anti-Borg technology by Captain Janeway. Invented some time after they encountered the transwarp hub hidden inside a nebula in 2378, but chose not to investigate it further. She used the technology to protect Voyager against the Borg on their voyage back to Earth. By 2404, ablative generators had not yet become standard equipment on Starfleet vessels. Ships like the USS Rhode Island were not equipped with them. Also, the Klingons did not yet possess ablative generators.

During that year, Admiral Janeway embarked on an illegal mission to change history by traveling back in time to help secure Voyager's safe return to the Alpha Quadrant sixteen years early. Janeway utilized a Starfleet Command shuttlecraft, the SC-4, equipped with ablative generators when meeting with Korath, a Klingon scientist, who had developed the chrono deflector, a device capable of generating temporal rifts for time travel. Janeway stole the chrono deflector and used the ablative armor to defend the shuttle against nadion discharges fired by Korath's Negh'Var-class warship in a retaliatory attack.

After successfully traveling back in time to 2378, Admiral Janeway assisted Voyager's crew in manufacturing and installing the advanced armor technology aboard the ship. The crew used the armor to defend themselves against Borg attacks while attempting to access the transwarp hub located in grid 986. When the Borg Queen assimilated Admiral Janeway, she also assimilated knowledge of how to construct the armor technology, but was killed by the neurolytic pathogen Janeway was infected with. Eventually Voyager's armor integrity was depleted down to to six percent by a pursuing Borg sphere and the crew had to allow the ship to be captured. They were, however, able to use transphasic torpedoes to destroy the sphere upon exiting the transwarp conduit near Earth. (VOY: "Endgame")

Basically, the Ablative Armor Generator uses the shield grid to create armor that dissolves when hit by an energy beam (or other energy based weapons such as Borg projectiles). The generator can sustain the armor indefinitely; but once the armor is degraded, the shield grid cannot replicate new armor to replace the damaged ones. I would hypothesize that the armor can be replaced once the ship is out of danger, and the shield grid has a chance to "turn off" the armor and regain power.

In the Game
From STOWiki:

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Ablative_Generator wrote:

Ablative Generator is an ability that, when active, give the ship a stacking 90% damage resistance bonus, but it disables shields and energy weapons.

Game Description: Generates Ablative Armor around your ship. Developed from 25th century technology brought back by then Captain Kathryn Janeway and the crew of the U.S.S. Voyager when they returned from the Delta Quadrant. The generated armor is extremely resilient - almost impenetrable. When the armor is deployed, shields will go offline and energy weapons cannot be used, however torpedoes and mines can be accommodated by the armor. Maintaining the generators is extremely power intensive, so the armor can also only be maintained for a short period and it takes a very long time to re-initialize.
Used by: Vice Admiral
Target: Self
Attack Type: N/A
Ability Type: Buff, Toggle (15s max)
Activation: 2 sec
Range: N/A
Shares cooldown with: None
Starts cooldown on: Self only
Modified by: Skills, Stats, Auxiliary
Trained by: Not trainable (innate ability)

Ability Ranks: 180 second cooldown. +900 All Damage bonus resistance, Energy weapons Offline, Shields Offline.

As you can see, the Ablative Generator console generally follows the one seen in VOY: "Endgame". However, instead of a toggle with infinite time, it is limited to a meager 15 seconds, and a 3 minute cooldown.

If the Intrepid and its variants get a redo, I highly suggest fixing this console to better follow the TV version it is based off of, and to make the console more useful.

Console - Universal - Ablative Armor Generator
+900 All Damage Resistance Rating
Energy Weapons Offline
Shields Offline
180 second cooldown -same stats as the existing version.

Toggle, infinite -Follows closer to the TV version, which did not state a time limit.
Absorbs 80,000 points of damage (non-healable)-Same principle as what the Scimitar Secondary Shields and Romulan Quantum Absorption use. Note that 80,000 points is just a suggestive number; with a Dmg Resist of +900, this number can be lowered significantly, especially for PvP.*
-10% Turn Rate -Voyager moved sluggishly with the armor deployed. Possibly due to the impulse exhaust vents being covered up.
-5% Flight Speed

After 80,000 points of damage, or deactivation: Shields Offline for 10 seconds -Supposed to emulate the shield grid recovering from the power intensive armor.

*Note that once the armor is destroyed, the shield grid will NOT go back online for a short period of time.

EDIT 1: Totally forgot the possibility of a 2pc bonus for the LRSV and LRSVR revamp.

The "Astrometrics Lab" is one of Voyager's special additions that had a multitude of uses, mostly pertaining to sensor range, communications, and experimental warp operation.

2-Piece Bonus: Astrometrics Lab
+0.25 Stealth Detection Rating (SDR)
+20% Sensor Range
+0.5 Critical Chance*
+50% Slipstream duration

*could be seen as not needed, or unbalanced

EDIT 2: Suggestions
- increase projectile damage by XX% while armour is toggled on
- scaling hull point bonuses depending on hull numbers
- "shields offline" penalty for turning off the generator, penalty is reduced by high aux power levels


Anyway, these are just some suggestions. I'm open for constructive criticism, and will add ideas to this post as they come.

oracion666

I do like the rework for the ablative generator. Well thought out. As for the second piece, remember the Bellerophon comes with the photonic torpedo console. That would work into the two piece.

vocmcp

If I'm not mistaken you're trying to increase the time the generator is up by giving it a damage wear off instead of it being time based. As a matter of fact you can do 80k damage in much less than the 15 secs mentioned. So be careful what you wish for. Especially with that deadly 10 secs shields offline after it's been depleted....... insane....

I'd keep it the way it is.

mustrumridcully0

vocmcp wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken you're trying to increase the time the generator is up by giving it a damage wear off instead of it being time based. As a matter of fact you can do 80k damage in much less than the 15 secs mentioned. So be careful what you wish for. Especially with that deadly 10 secs shields offline after it's been depleted....... insane....

I'd keep it the way it is.

Yes, that would be pretty much the problem.

In PvE, I suppose the damage output of enemy ships is something that can be easily predetermined, but players will deal a lot more damage in a short time, so the Ablative ARmor Generator might either be overpowered in PvE or severely useless in PvP.

THe approach of making it a duration-based ability that grants armour resistance seems to be "safer".

stardestroyer001

vocmcp wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken you're trying to increase the time the generator is up by giving it a damage wear off instead of it being time based. As a matter of fact you can do 80k damage in much less than the 15 secs mentioned. So be careful what you wish for. Especially with that deadly 10 secs shields offline after it's been depleted....... insane....

I'd keep it the way it is.

As I said, the number can be adjusted based on how easily those points of damage are eaten up. They could be boosted. Besides, it's not 80k of hull, it's 80k of +900 Damage resist hull.

Keep in mind that there should be some kind of penalty for activating the armor. That's why the shield grid is off for ten seconds after the armor is deactivated or destroyed.

oracion666

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

As I said, the number can be adjusted based on how easily those points of damage are eaten up. They could be boosted. Besides, it's not 80k of hull, it's 80k of +900 Damage resist hull.

Keep in mind that there should be some kind of penalty for activating the armor. That's why the shield grid is off for ten seconds after the armor is deactivated or destroyed.

It could scale with your total hull amount by a certain percentage. Also, the length of time the shields are offline could be tied in with your Aux power. More aux, less down time.

hunteralpha84

I thought it was already on a time limit?

I had visions of a torpedo boat intrepid but those dreams where dashed when I found the generator was no longer a toggle ability.

Unless they've changed it since I last tried? It was early last year.

tenkari

hunteralpha84 wrote: »

I thought it was already on a time limit?

I had visions of a torpedo boat intrepid but those dreams where dashed when I found the generator was no longer a toggle ability.

Unless they've changed it since I last tried? It was early last year.

it's always been on a 15 second timer, he's suggesting that it be turned into a toggle.

oracion666

Actually, just having it as a toggle ability would be a big improvement. Maybe a 30 second cooldown with some other negative applied. 20 point cut in shields for that time frame?

zachariya

vocmcp wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken you're trying to increase the time the generator is up by giving it a damage wear off instead of it being time based. As a matter of fact you can do 80k damage in much less than the 15 secs mentioned. So be careful what you wish for. Especially with that deadly 10 secs shields offline after it's been depleted....... insane....

I'd keep it the way it is.

As long as EPtS could be used to restore your shields early it would make the console slightly more useful than it currently is

ufpterrell

A toggle might be a good idea, but having 10 seconds of no shields would make it a huge liability. Seriously in PvP 10 seconds is an eternity and it would mean certain death. A toggle would be better in some ways, but as people have said player DPS can be so crazy that a set amount of health would be gone almost instantly followed by a period of almost certain death :P. It would make the console even more useless than it is now.

I say if you want to go with the toggle ability great, however do not have shields offline for 10 seconds they should come back online right after or it will be more hassle than it's worth. Also, what's the time period for warbirds to charge up the core to the level of effectiveness the armour has? I would make the CD the same, if not less due to the fact warbirds can continue to use their shields and energy weapons while the absorption ability is in use. (if you really want to simulate energy loss because of the armour then just reduce power levels slightly while it's deployed)

stardestroyer001

oracion666 wrote:

It could scale with your total hull amount by a certain percentage. Also, the length of time the shields are offline could be tied in with your Aux power. More aux, less down time.

I like both of those ideas. The Fleet Intrepid would benefit greatly from this.

ufpterrell wrote: »

A toggle might be a good idea, but having 10 seconds of no shields would make it a huge liability. Seriously in PvP 10 seconds is an eternity and it would mean certain death. A toggle would be better in some ways, but as people have said player DPS can be so crazy that a set amount of health would be gone almost instantly followed by a period of almost certain death :P. It would make the console even more useless than it is now.

I say if you want to go with the toggle ability great, however do not have shields offline for 10 seconds they should come back online right after or it will be more hassle than it's worth. Also, what's the time period for warbirds to charge up the core to the level of effectiveness the armour has? I would make the CD the same, if not less due to the fact warbirds can continue to use their shields and energy weapons while the absorption ability is in use. (if you really want to simulate energy loss because of the armour then just reduce power levels slightly while it's deployed)

How about 10 seconds of reduced Shield power instead? That way, if the captain so desired to pop a battery or EPtS, the penalty from deactivated/compromised armor would have little effect.

I'm not sure on the exact time it takes to charge from 0 to 5, it depends largely on damage output. Besides, absorption is chewed up fast because there isn't much damage resist bonuses associated with the Quantum Absorption ability. With the +900 damage resist, it's a different story.

I was also thinking of adding some percentage defense bonuses as well, but I am hesitant to do it due to canonicity and balance issues.

hyprodimus

I too think the armor should be a toggle.

The armor doesn't last long enough and you have to drop shields for two seconds. If you were even considering activating the armor in the first place, you are under a lot of pressure. And dropping shields under pressure will get you killed while the armor animation is happening.

In the show, it wasn't an emergency console/panic button. It was a tactical choice to increase defense to make it through a forward line.

The added defense came at the cost of energy weapons. I think it should be specifically geared to making the Intrepid a torpedo boat.

While active:

- Deactivate Energy weapons
- Increase projectile damage by 25%

- Deactivate all bonus' and effects from the equipped shield
- Shield resistance now comes from kinetic resistance


The last two changes are to emulate the transfer from energy shield defense mechanic to ablative armor defense.

stardestroyer001

hyprodimus wrote: »

I too think the armor should be a toggle.

The armor doesn't last long enough and you have to drop shields for two seconds. If you were even considering activating the armor in the first place, you are under a lot of pressure. And dropping shields under pressure will get you killed while the armor animation is happening.

In the show, it wasn't an emergency console/panic button. It was a tactical choice to increase defense to make it through a forward line.

The added defense came at the cost of energy weapons. I think it should be specifically geared to making the Intrepid a torpedo boat.

While active:

- Deactivate Energy weapons
- Increase projectile damage by 25%

- Deactivate all bonus' and effects from the equipped shield
- Shield resistance now comes from kinetic resistance


The last two changes are to emulate the transfer from energy shield defense mechanic to ablative armor defense.

Agreed. The armour was activated before combat begins, by both a shuttlecraft and Voyager.

I do like the "increase proj damage" suggestion. Regarding the kinetic resistance, I'd like to hear ore about it!

unheard1978

you could make a 3pc also with this.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Impulse_Capacitance_Cell

This console allows you to release power into your ship's driver coils to gain an impressive short burst of Impulse power in combat. B'Elanna Torres first used this technique in 2371 to escape from a swarm of space-dwelling lifeforms native to the Delta Quadrant. This Console Mod can be equipped on any ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of theses mods on any single ship.

thegrimcorsair

unheard1978 wrote: »

you could make a 3pc also with this.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Impulse_Capacitance_Cell

This console allows you to release power into your ship's driver coils to gain an impressive short burst of Impulse power in combat. B'Elanna Torres first used this technique in 2371 to escape from a swarm of space-dwelling lifeforms native to the Delta Quadrant. This Console Mod can be equipped on any ship, in any console slot. You may only equip one of theses mods on any single ship.

That'd be the first time a ship had a set bonus with a piece from a different ship, wouldn't it.

It's kind of... IDK, I don't think I want Cryptic to go down that road.

Then again, maybe that would mean the Torpedo PDS off the Armitage would be allowed to be used on the Nebbie. Hmm....

stardestroyer001

thegrimcorsair wrote: »

That'd be the first time a ship had a set bonus with a piece from a different ship, wouldn't it.

It's kind of... IDK, I don't think I want Cryptic to go down that road.

Then again, maybe that would mean the Torpedo PDS off the Armitage would be allowed to be used on the Nebbie. Hmm....

It would certainly open up possibilities for Cryptic to explore.

What kind of 3pc bonus would be available if you combined the PSW-Torp console, Armour console and the third console?

tenkari

if it was a toggle... it would make for an interesting Torp boat since you couldn't use energy based weaponry.

th3admiral

I really think that the Intrepid class and its variants would, with some alterations, be a perfect alternative to the most powerful ships on the game. The ablative armor is without question the most important feature. The Intrepid's hull is not that strong and that's why Admiral Janeway violated the Temporal Prime Directive to bring it to 2378! The armor is an enormous part of the Intrepid's charm! It's supposed to be almost indestructible, not to last 15s! It transformed Voyager in a titan of war, STO should use that. With an effective ablative armor this class would be able to rivalize with almost any other ship. And it would enter a permanent ship option for hard core players. A deep space science war ship is probably one of the most amazing creations we could find in STO. Imagine all the perks of a war ship in a tiny little ship like the Intrepid class. Maybe then we would be able to leave our Dreadnoughts and Odysseys in dry dock for a while... it seems that one only sees these ships nowadays, gallivanting around the sectors...

legendarylycan

thegrimcorsair wrote: »

That'd be the first time a ship had a set bonus with a piece from a different ship, wouldn't it.

It's kind of... IDK, I don't think I want Cryptic to go down that road.

too late, it already happened long ago...the first time was with the odyseey/bortasqu' sets, then the temporal ship sets, followed by each of the romulan warbird sets, and most recently with the galaxy

macronius

The 80K hitpoints is pretty weak especially with a 3 min CD. In PvP players easily hit for 50K and sometimes much more with BO or torpedo spread. That means 1-2 seconds and your armor is gone. Losing shields for 10 seconds is also a killer.

PvE is slightly less dangerous because NPCs are stupid. But those Borg instajib torpedoes would also make short work of the armor. Again, 10 secs without shields in elite STF means a likely visit to respawn.

I favor either reducing the CD to 2 mins and/or eliminating the shield loss. Or make it like the singularity armor which provides total protection at no cost but fades quickly and recharges quickly too. If they make it more powerful defensively then maybe it can shut down your other boff powers in exchange like healing or Aux2damp ... or whatever. Energy weapon limitation should stay though.

the1tigglet

oracion666 wrote: »

I do like the rework for the ablative generator. Well thought out. As for the second piece, remember the Bellerophon comes with the photonic torpedo console. That would work into the two piece.

I think a two piece set would be freakin awesome. However they're going to have to increase this ships defense. The regular one is like the old Enterprise D it was terrible and that was the only intrepid available to most players. The fleet one is better of course but not by much, for example the fleet one doesn't have the defensive capabilities of the Temporal Wells.

I'd suggest they improve the ship's stats or change the bellerophon in the store to an actual Tier 5 or 5.5 when they add that.

vegie0

I think i made a post about this that practically clones this lol. But I love the idea of making the Intrepid into something amazing.

Here is a couple of Brain Storming points... no idea if they would be good. But i think it could.

Making it function like Quantum Absorbtion. which give it the benefit of breaking down like it should.

Making it actually shift the ship from one mode to another. IE like the Dyson Science Destroyer and disable all of its tactical slots as a penalty for the insane damage resistance. Then the armor could be healed by the abilites and it wouldnt be so bad. Say it disables everything but Engineering and a few science Slots. Has the benefit of making the ship a new playing experience.

But whatever is decided, I feel this could drastically improve the ship.

mynameisnom

Yes. Besides for rp voyager ships are very outclassed by vestas. Give it life again!

spaceshipfoodf

All it needs is the ability to fire torpedoes / mines when active, but all energy weapons are taken offline, in the show Voyager could still fire torps.

boogieman624

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

With all of the discussion revolving around a wanted "Intrepid Revamp" and "Warship Voyager", I thought I should add in a small thread on the Long-Range Science Vessel Retrofit's unique console, the Ablative Armor Generator.

In Lore
From Memory Alpha: (WARNING: SPOILERS)

Basically, the Ablative Armor Generator uses the shield grid to create armor that dissolves when hit by an energy beam (or other energy based weapons such as Borg projectiles). The generator can sustain the armor indefinitely; but once the armor is degraded, the shield grid cannot replicate new armor to replace the damaged ones. I would hypothesize that the armor can be replaced once the ship is out of danger, and the shield grid has a chance to "turn off" the armor and regain power.

In the Game
From STOWiki:


As you can see, the Ablative Generator console generally follows the one seen in VOY: "Endgame". However, instead of a toggle with infinite time, it is limited to a meager 15 seconds, and a 3 minute cooldown.

If the Intrepid and its variants get a redo, I highly suggest fixing this console to better follow the TV version it is based off of, and to make the console more useful.

Console - Universal - Ablative Armor Generator
+900 All Damage Resistance Rating
Energy Weapons Offline
Shields Offline
180 second cooldown -same stats as the existing version.

Toggle, infinite -Follows closer to the TV version, which did not state a time limit.
Absorbs 80,000 points of damage (non-healable)-Same principle as what the Scimitar Secondary Shields and Romulan Quantum Absorption use. Note that 80,000 points is just a suggestive number; with a Dmg Resist of +900, this number can be lowered significantly, especially for PvP.*
-10% Turn Rate -Voyager moved sluggishly with the armor deployed. Possibly due to the impulse exhaust vents being covered up.
-5% Flight Speed

After 80,000 points of damage, or deactivation: Shields Offline for 10 seconds -Supposed to emulate the shield grid recovering from the power intensive armor.

*Note that once the armor is destroyed, the shield grid will NOT go back online for a short period of time.

EDIT 1: Totally forgot the possibility of a 2pc bonus for the LRSV and LRSVR revamp.

The "Astrometrics Lab" is one of Voyager's special additions that had a multitude of uses, mostly pertaining to sensor range, communications, and experimental warp operation.

2-Piece Bonus: Astrometrics Lab
+0.25 Stealth Detection Rating (SDR)
+20% Sensor Range
+0.5 Critical Chance*
+50% Slipstream duration

*could be seen as not needed, or unbalanced

EDIT 2: Suggestions
- increase projectile damage by XX% while armour is toggled on
- scaling hull point bonuses depending on hull numbers
- "shields offline" penalty for turning off the generator, penalty is reduced by high aux power levels


Anyway, these are just some suggestions. I'm open for constructive criticism, and will add ideas to this post as they come.

I Think That The Ablative Armor Should Be The FED Version Of Cloak. Starfleet Probably Would Have Adapted It To The Rest Of It's Starships (Plus The Stealth Tech From Sc-9.)

rearll

spaceshipfoodf wrote: »

All it needs is the ability to fire torpedoes / mines when active, but all energy weapons are taken offline, in the show Voyager could still fire torps.

It can fire torps.

spaceshipfoodf

rearll wrote: »

It can fire torps.

Oh, well then. Don't change it, its fine

grendelthewise

I just wish that could be used on other ships. It is a nice feature when you are getting banged around by everyone in the game who wants to kill you.

johnnymo1

Why not just go all the way with the ship. when the armor is activated the ships weapons are substituted for transphasic torpedoes as long as the armor is active.

torad1

Interesting idea.
Maybe something like the dysons tactical mode:

Active Ablative hull armor (active ability, cant be deactivated while in combat,o cd on deactivation 3min)
The Armor slowly eats up you auxilary, giving you a -1 Aux per second, it automaticly goes offline if aux is offline. (Still the armor can be online for very long, as you can boost aux with various effects)
The Armor will also go offline if you suffer x dmg (i dont know a good number, remember the 900 dmg resistance let you eat not so much damage). If the armor is taken off by damage its cooldown is increased to 240sek, and the current Aux and shield energie is set to 0 (however it instantly starts to rebuild)
+900dmg Resistence.
All Energy Weapons disabled, one fore and one aft slot actived fitted with an

Voyager Adapted Transphasic Torpedo Mk XIV

"These Torpedos are special adapted to be used as stand alone weapons, allowing for huge attacks through shields to destroy unready targets."
"Fires a extremly potent transphasic torpedo with increased shielddistractions, allowing for destroying unaware targets before they even know."
damage around transphasic cluster with, 80%shieldpen (180sek cd (can be reduced by torpedo doffs))

The Ablative armor+ the nadion console from the bellerophon would give a 2 piece
"Torpedo Adapted Armor"
Every time a torpedo is fireing the cooldown of the ablative Armor is reduced by 5seconds.

This would allow the voyager to use the armor for both, offensive and defensive purposes and would give enemys a thing, why they should fire the armor down to get rid of those deadly torpedos and have more time until next armor will happen, also giving a short window with enemys aux offline