Except, no it isn't. By the devs own words, it was meant to be a Science/Cruiser HYBRID. Both, not 'neither' as it is now.
Dunno what was whispered in the night but its a science ship now. Six weapon hard-points, sensor analysis and subsystem targeting, its a 100% pure science ship.
It doesn't have enough science boff slots to properly high-level science shenanigans. It has a Science Cmdr. and an engineering lt. Cmdr. Slot.
If you slot the uni Lt as sci you get 7 sci seats [4+2+1], which is the maximum number of seats for every other science ship.
It can't cruiser FAW shenanigans because it doesn't have enough weapons to do it.
Nor the tac consoles
I want a ship that is the support cruiser of science vessels. Competent, but not master of all things that can do just about anything well enough without completely changing your build to do something different.
It can do everything poorly now, thats the whole problem with it--outclassed by some other ship at every possible role.
I'm not asking for console or boff changes, just an extra weapon to finish making it a hybrid. Is it REALLY that much to ask?
Dude, look at what didnt happen to the Galaxy and ask yourself what's the reality here
As for the engineering station, it can fit EPtA3, EPtS3, EPtE3, EWP1....there's lots of ways to use that station and each choice fundamentally changes how the ship will play. It also has a universal station that is really helpful. The only other ship to do that is the Vesta, but that gives it way too many eng stations.
Yeah its one of the only Fed sci ships that can run EPtA3, which is a huuuge advantage for full-on sci builds.
Tanks are completely useless in STO's endgame, PVE or PVP. There is literally no need for them, which makes ships MEANT for tanking, relatively useless. The Nebula's main thing is being a tank, support, and Healer, but the first one does not matter, healers are relegated to PVP (as useless in PVE, and support only plays a marginal (if useful) role in PVE.
This.
The Nebula is a perfectly fine ship. But tanks aren't needed in the gameplay that STO has to offer right now.
Not until they finally come to their senses and give the galaxy-x the LtCmDr tac slot it deserves.
This just seems to be a zealous crusade that's leading to blindness.
Just today I read a post that suggested the T4 Galaxy is superior to the Retro Galaxy. And apparently it was a serious post.
I don't know. Some deep breaths are needed. And some perspective is very much needed. I'm all for improving the Galaxy-R. But when I read posts like the one there, I just think the Devs are going to walk away from all this.
The Galaxy Reboot seems to have rekindled enough attention on the old ship that they've sold probably more than 50 of those bundles. And thus made some profit on the shoulders of this threadnaught. Which I don't know, would seem to be clever of them and a self-fulfilling tragedy for this thread.
I don't think it's Cryptic that will coming to their senses anytime soon.
I pretty much fly the Neb all the time and have been happy with it. As the game's evolved I've found it pretty interesting to have to work on modifying the ship's weapon, DOFF, and BOFF load out to either drop or add systems that will keep it as a viable support ship. I have no illusions about getting a huge DPS number out of this ship though.
But it does provide a lot of flexibility with 10 console slots to play with and a universal station though I run that as a TAC for the longest time.
The three biggest things to help the Neb-R are the fleet consoles for turning and resistance, along with the recent addition of removing the shared cooldown between the team abilities (Tac, Engy, Sci). It provides me at least now six different healing options even when running a TAC officer in the Universal Lieutenant. Finally, as the dev team finally fixed Grav Well, GW3 is just a monster support tool now. I take quite a sense of satisfaction as setting up an entire group of ships for the escorts and cruisers to blast and then heal up the teammates so they can stay on target longer. On things like Fleet mark runs it's quite possible to occupy an entire group of enemy ships by myself while the rest of the team handles another group since I can crowd control them while keeping myself healed just fine
Since I also love using Universal Consoles the large number of console slots lets me really pile on the universals for variety or just the fun of it. It can make for the potential to have some really good spike damage with things like point defense, isometric, theta vents, and even that hirogen fake death console.
One thing I have switched to lately now that the spire consoles have arrived is trying to maximize my crit chance with those consoles, universal consoles, BOFFs, and beam weapons. Since the Neb has fewer weapon points might as well try to get the most crit out of them as possible. And it also lets me go rainbow because more and different procs are fun. And I can do all that while still maintaining multiple heals as heal boat.
Someone else mentioned the Venture skin and I think that would be nice to see as well. It certainly looks nice on the Gal-X.
Edit:
Forgot to add though that I've always found the console which comes with the Nebula to be a bit useless in PvE. If it had some team boost for increasing weapon accuracy or something I'd gladly lose a universal for that.
This just seems to be a zealous crusade that's leading to blindness.
Just today I read a post that suggested the T4 Galaxy is superior to the Retro Galaxy. And apparently it was a serious post.
I don't know. Some deep breaths are needed. And some perspective is very much needed. I'm all for improving the Galaxy-R. But when I read posts like the one there, I just think the Devs are going to walk away from all this.
The Galaxy Reboot seems to have rekindled enough attention on the old ship that they've sold probably more than 50 of those bundles. And thus made some profit on the shoulders of this threadnaught. Which I don't know, would seem to be clever of them and a self-fulfilling tragedy for this thread.
I don't think it's Cryptic that will coming to their senses anytime soon.
And if they did something to actually improve it where it needs it, they would have sold a LOT more. But I digress.
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As far as Science Vessels go, at least for the Feds, the beef isn't really with the Nebula.
It's that Cryptic made a ship pack that makes every other Fed Sci Vessel obsolete. The Vesta. You don't need any other Sci Ship as a Fed. You can replicate practically every Fed Sci Ship BOFF & Console layout with a Vesta, on top of unique features and even a damn hangar.
The Fed Sci Vessel selection is wide and many are actually good, valid Sci Vessels to effectively play, including the Nebula.
But the issue is... Why?... Why play those other Fed Sci Ships? The Vesta CAN do what they can do and be just as effective, AND still have its unique toys as an option. The Vesta is great and can do far too many things. It's effective. It's one of the reasons why even the Dyson Sci Destroyers are, IMO, a step down compared to the Vesta.
As far as Science Vessels go, at least for the Feds, the beef isn't really with the Nebula.
It's that Cryptic made a ship pack that makes every other Fed Sci Vessel obsolete. The Vesta. You don't need any other Sci Ship as a Fed. You can replicate practically every Fed Sci Ship BOFF & Console layout with a Vesta, on top of unique features and even a damn hangar.
The Fed Sci Vessel selection is wide and many are actually good, valid Sci Vessels to effectively play, including the Nebula.
But the issue is... Why?... Why play those other Fed Sci Ships? The Vesta CAN do what they can do and be just as effective, AND still have its unique toys as an option. The Vesta is great and can do far too many things. It's effective. It's one of the reasons why even the Dyson Sci Destroyers are, IMO, a step down compared to the Vesta.
Except the vesta can't mimic the boff layout of the Nebula and the Nebula has a lot more hull, which in PvP can be a huge help. I use the vesta and I like it, but there are times when the vesta is just about useless.
Namely, this time for one of the least used science vessels in the game, the Nebula.
Ironically, it wouldn't be such a bad ship, if it wasn't for the fact that it tries to be a cruiser and a science ship, and doesn't play to the strengths of either.
So, how do we fix this?
I really don't see the issue you are having with this ship. There is no "issue" to fix at all. The Nebula has the highest hull modifier out of all Science Vessels, a fantastic bridge officer layout, and the perfect healer console layout. The Nebula is the Federation's best stealth detection ship, best science vessel healer, and a great tank. It also has a fine potential to run a kinetic based science damage build with Eject Warp Plasma, Gravity Well, and Tractor Beam/Repulsors.
It will carry a secondary deflector, and has a shield modifier best described as 'excessive' even before the fleet version is even considered, cmdr science boff, and a better turn rate than almost any cruiser.
The Nebula is called the Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit for a reason. The ship is an engineering oriented Science Vessel rather than a science oriented Cruiser. The shield modifier is on par with every other fleet level Science Vessel in the game.
Except: it has a lower turn rate than any science vessel so using point science abilities is out of the question
The turn rate is just fine considering the Fleet Nebula has more hull than any other Science Vessel in the game. Science Vessel turn rates/Inertia: 9/40, 11/40, 12/40, 12/40, 13/40, 13/40, 15/50. Two degrees fewer than the second best is not a significant penalty considering the ship has four engineering console slots and the best hull rating in the game. There is nothing wrong with using Science Vessel abilities on the Nebula. Claiming otherwise is completely absurd. If you can't figure out how help the ship reach 30+ turn rate/second, then you need to review basic game mechanics.
It has more engineering consoles than needed over a third tac console, it has 3/3 weapons instead of a cruiser's 4/4, and the hull strength is that of a science ship instead of a cruiser. The worst of both worlds.
Tactical consoles are overrated, especially on a Science Vessel. The ship has 6 weapon slots because it is a Science Vessel. The hull strength is lower than a Cruiser because the ship is a Science Vessel with a Science Vessel shield modifier.
Wow. So like, the Nebula is the reason I still have my own beef with Geko. There was a huge lobby of players, myself included, who felt it should have been a cruiser. But at the time there were just way too many cruisers, so it ended up being a science ship. But a cruiser-y science ship.
The Nebula was portrayed throughout cannon as a Science oriented Cruiser. This was shifted into the Star Trek Armada game series and again into Star Trek Online. I was actually delighted to see that Cryptic decided to make the Nebula a Engineering oriented Science Vessel. It felt right and I enjoy the ship very much. If you don't like the ship, then don't fly the ship. It is that simple.
It's that Cryptic made a ship pack that makes every other Fed Sci Vessel obsolete. The Vesta. You don't need any other Sci Ship as a Fed. You can replicate practically every Fed Sci Ship BOFF & Console layout with a Vesta, on top of unique features and even a damn hangar.
The Vesta is nowhere close to the ultimate Science Vessel. Yes it has a hangar, but it pays heavily for that in terms of hull, shields, and turn rate. The ship has the lowest fleet level shield stats, ties with Voyager for the second lowest hull modifier, and ties Voyager for the third lowest hull modifier. The only science vessel truly made obsolete by the Vesta is the Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit (Voyager), which is essentially a Vesta without a hangar or universal bridge officer stations in exchange for 5% more shields. Every other Science Vessel on the federation side has unique features and properties. The "flexible" bridge officer layout on the Vesta severely limits the ship's ability to run high end science abilities.
The Nebula was portrayed throughout cannon as a Science oriented Cruiser.
I'm going to skip the commentary about other video games because they're video games and not canon.
And only focus on how it was portrayed on-screen.
Which was as a multi-role vessel. And the added traingular module, in one specific episode was fitted with torpedo launchers.
Did it do science? Yeah. But it also did patrol and combat type stuff too. It was multi-faceted and that was its gimmick with the module. That it could be fitted for different mission parameters.
I'm going to skip the commentary about other video games because they're video games and not canon.
And only focus on how it was portrayed on-screen.
Which was as a multi-role vessel. And the added traingular module, in one specific episode was fitted with torpedo launchers.
Did it do science? Yeah. But it also did patrol and combat type stuff too. It was multi-faceted and that was its gimmick with the module. That it could be fitted for different mission parameters.
In my opinion this flexibility is represented in the universal lt slot which is a pretty powerful option. That's more tac stations than the "Dreadnaught Cruiser" has.
Yeah, we all want LTC tacs on all out ships, but the Nebula is actually fine. I'd wish the Exploration Cruiser would share the BOFF layout with ENG and SCI swapped, they are one design lineage after all.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
My sci flies a fleet Nebula and this is a pretty fine ship. far more flexible than her sister ship the Galaxy. I would have liked to have had a 3rd tact console for the fleet version instead of a engineering one, but meh she still delivers the pain in stf's
Ship is fine for me as is. esp the boff setup.
I'd like to see some other skins for her mainly the sensor pod the Phoenix used.
I'm going to skip the commentary about other video games because they're video games and not canon.
And only focus on how it was portrayed on-screen.
Which was as a multi-role vessel. And the added traingular module, in one specific episode was fitted with torpedo launchers.
Did it do science? Yeah. But it also did patrol and combat type stuff too. It was multi-faceted and that was its gimmick with the module. That it could be fitted for different mission parameters.
I didnt see any difference between the nebulas mission focus and the galaxies mission focus on screen.
Beeing build of mainly the same components I always considered them pretty much as variants of the same ship, having pretty much the same capacities. Plus the module in case of the nebula...
All I'd like to see would be
1) one more forward weapon slot, or
2) one hanger bay.
That would be it, its a big enough and slow enough ship to accommodate either, so why not, wouldn't make it overpowered at all. I quite like the ship, though I've only played around with it a little, but I do find it a touch restrictive with its weaponry, but I fly more cruisers than anything so i'm used to the 4/4 .
Its consoles, hull, turn, boff seating, leave it all the same, we're talking about bringing a ship up a bit in tech, not pushing it to the head of the pack
I'd like at least a venture styled version, and I could see a hanger on this one or another forward weapon slot. Honestly though I'd like them to take advantage of the dyson tech. Make it that the version can only be changed in sector space
A sensor module (pheonix type) that turns on your secondary sensor and makes the Commander sci, and the LT comm engineer.
The tactical modules we have that swap the LT Comm Sci and the LT tactical for a LT Comm Tact and a LT Sci, but makes a hardwired special proton torpedo or forward weapon slot availible.
or an Eng module (arguably the Venture version), that increased regneration rates (shield and hull) sector space max warp speed, and maybe grants some sorta special thingy to make it useful inside missions too. Maybe even grant something like the Excelsior Transwarp capabilities.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
I'm with our furry friend on this one - I'd like the Venture family extended to cover the Nebula, it makes sense.
The hangar... I'm not sure about that one. On the one hand the mission pod shows two visible launch pads, on the other hand I think we have enough hangars on everything already. But I still root for a ship featuring THESE. Maybe we could get a special mission pod carrying two sentry pods. Docked they would serve as a fourth weapon slot and seperated they would be two auxilliary craft. It's different from a hangar, but still another ship that uses some kind of aux craft/separation mechanic.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> Turns faster than the Odyssey
> totally useless for science abilities because of turn rate
Is that what I'm hearing people say?
That's right. It's a hybrid.
Do you know what a hybrid is? Something that can do both X and Y, but neither as well as something dedicated to doing X or Y.
It's like the Miranda. It can do everything, but it can't do anything well.
You're expecting the Nebula to be better than the Odyssey and the Intrepid-classes, and it's not, so you're disappointed. Yes? Am I close?
It's a slower, durable science ship. It's not a cruiser. It's not a science ship. It's a Nebula.
While I agree with you that there is nothing particularly wrong with the Nebula in itself (it was my main ship before the Ambassador came along), I kinda get where the people saying it has no role are coming from.
When the Nebula was introduced, a ship's natural defences were more important than they are now; the Nebula excelled because it had both strong shields and a tough hull. The game has changed a lot since then though; now survivability owes more to what gear sets and rep abilities you have. Having a thicker hull than other science ships is unlikely to save a Neb any more.
What's more, overcoming the challenges of the modern game really requires a degree of specialization. Not saying the Nebula can't do that, but it undermines the theme, so to speak. Being a jack-of-all-trades just isn't an advantage any more; rather, it is something you have to try and work around.
The Nebula has its advantages, but those advantages have become irrelevant as the game developed. It's trying to fill a niche that just isn't there any more IMO.
> Turns faster than the Odyssey
> totally useless for science abilities because of turn rate
Is that what I'm hearing people say?
Kind of. I mean if you're reading my posts, I'm definitely saying "totally useless for science abilities because of turn rate."
But I'm saying that in the context of the past.
These days, much of what made me say that has been alleviated.
Back when it debuted, I was infuriated because it turned too slow to use narrow arc science abilities.
In the game right now? The arc is wider. Turning is easier. And the ship can do what it does a lot more effectively than when it first appeared.
Man, when the Nebula went live, I was such a PO'd poster. Science ships needed to turn faster than that just to get their science abilities going. And it was such a slug/bathtub/dog/whatever-you-want-to-call it.
But yeah, that complaint in March 2014 seems a bit off. Definitely.
All I'd like to see would be
1) one more forward weapon slot, or
2) one hanger bay.
That would be it, its a big enough and slow enough ship to accommodate either, so why not, wouldn't make it overpowered at all.
Yes, giving the ship a hangar or an extra weapon slot when the ship already has great comparative stats to other science vessels wouldn't be overpowered at all . The only Science Vessel with a Hangar is the Vesta, but that ship pays for the hangar in terms of hull/shield modifiers.
I quite like the ship, though I've only played around with it a little, but I do find it a touch restrictive with its weaponry, but I fly more cruisers than anything so i'm used to the 4/4.
You need to think about the Nebula from a Science Vessel perspective rather than a Cruiser perspective.
It's basically a Science-Tank with limited damage capabilities, what basically makes it inferior to any other ship in PvE just because nobody needs Low-DPS Tanks and Healers (and that's unfortunately a fact).
On the other hand, it can be a really powerful healer in PvP and with the console of the Retrofit actually a nice Cloaker-Trap
So it's less "useless" and more "niche". It's useful in it's roles, its just it's roles are seen as less important. If they'd add some reliable stealth detection methods (FAW spam like in Nemesis?), they could both make the Nebula a more useful/popular ship and make the last half of Khitomer Vortex way more fun.
Okay... having pulled out the Nebula retrofit Cryptic gave out months ago and set it up as a transphasic/kinetic trapper and disabler.. this is FUN. It's durable enough to tank quite well (using the Solanae set and the Obelisk core), has a LtC Engineering station for eject warp plasma, two Lt stations for FAW, TT, TS and DPB. It's slow, but that may be alleviated by power settings or a RCS console. I'm also running gravity well II and feedback pulse, so 3 partigens.
Okay... having pulled out the Nebula retrofit Cryptic gave out months ago and set it up as a transphasic/kinetic trapper and disabler.. this is FUN. It's durable enough to tank quite well (using the Solanae set and the Obelisk core), has a LtC Engineering station for eject warp plasma, two Lt stations for FAW, TT, TS and DPB. It's slow, but that may be alleviated by power settings or a RCS console. I'm also running gravity well II and feedback pulse, so 3 partigens.
It is AWESOME.
And remember, you can get the fleet version for a single ship module.
Well worth it, imo.
Extra 10% shields and hull, which puts its shield modifier right up there with a Wells.
Another engineering console, which on first blush isnt exciting......but when you consider how much the Nebula benefits from decent engineering consoles......Either RCS or armour (and fleet can be both) gives the Nebula a boost.
Comments
If you slot the uni Lt as sci you get 7 sci seats [4+2+1], which is the maximum number of seats for every other science ship.
Nor the tac consoles
It can do everything poorly now, thats the whole problem with it--outclassed by some other ship at every possible role.
Dude, look at what didnt happen to the Galaxy and ask yourself what's the reality here
Yeah its one of the only Fed sci ships that can run EPtA3, which is a huuuge advantage for full-on sci builds.
The Nebula is a perfectly fine ship. But tanks aren't needed in the gameplay that STO has to offer right now.
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This just seems to be a zealous crusade that's leading to blindness.
Just today I read a post that suggested the T4 Galaxy is superior to the Retro Galaxy. And apparently it was a serious post.
I don't know. Some deep breaths are needed. And some perspective is very much needed. I'm all for improving the Galaxy-R. But when I read posts like the one there, I just think the Devs are going to walk away from all this.
The Galaxy Reboot seems to have rekindled enough attention on the old ship that they've sold probably more than 50 of those bundles. And thus made some profit on the shoulders of this threadnaught. Which I don't know, would seem to be clever of them and a self-fulfilling tragedy for this thread.
I don't think it's Cryptic that will coming to their senses anytime soon.
But it does provide a lot of flexibility with 10 console slots to play with and a universal station though I run that as a TAC for the longest time.
The three biggest things to help the Neb-R are the fleet consoles for turning and resistance, along with the recent addition of removing the shared cooldown between the team abilities (Tac, Engy, Sci). It provides me at least now six different healing options even when running a TAC officer in the Universal Lieutenant. Finally, as the dev team finally fixed Grav Well, GW3 is just a monster support tool now. I take quite a sense of satisfaction as setting up an entire group of ships for the escorts and cruisers to blast and then heal up the teammates so they can stay on target longer. On things like Fleet mark runs it's quite possible to occupy an entire group of enemy ships by myself while the rest of the team handles another group since I can crowd control them while keeping myself healed just fine
Since I also love using Universal Consoles the large number of console slots lets me really pile on the universals for variety or just the fun of it. It can make for the potential to have some really good spike damage with things like point defense, isometric, theta vents, and even that hirogen fake death console.
One thing I have switched to lately now that the spire consoles have arrived is trying to maximize my crit chance with those consoles, universal consoles, BOFFs, and beam weapons. Since the Neb has fewer weapon points might as well try to get the most crit out of them as possible. And it also lets me go rainbow because more and different procs are fun. And I can do all that while still maintaining multiple heals as heal boat.
Someone else mentioned the Venture skin and I think that would be nice to see as well. It certainly looks nice on the Gal-X.
Edit:
Forgot to add though that I've always found the console which comes with the Nebula to be a bit useless in PvE. If it had some team boost for increasing weapon accuracy or something I'd gladly lose a universal for that.
And if they did something to actually improve it where it needs it, they would have sold a LOT more. But I digress.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
The Venture and thus its look is from the 2370s.
It's that Cryptic made a ship pack that makes every other Fed Sci Vessel obsolete. The Vesta. You don't need any other Sci Ship as a Fed. You can replicate practically every Fed Sci Ship BOFF & Console layout with a Vesta, on top of unique features and even a damn hangar.
The Fed Sci Vessel selection is wide and many are actually good, valid Sci Vessels to effectively play, including the Nebula.
But the issue is... Why?... Why play those other Fed Sci Ships? The Vesta CAN do what they can do and be just as effective, AND still have its unique toys as an option. The Vesta is great and can do far too many things. It's effective. It's one of the reasons why even the Dyson Sci Destroyers are, IMO, a step down compared to the Vesta.
Except the vesta can't mimic the boff layout of the Nebula and the Nebula has a lot more hull, which in PvP can be a huge help. I use the vesta and I like it, but there are times when the vesta is just about useless.
And the Neb can have more Tac stations than the Gal-X. Makes it sad... for the Gal-X.
To paraphrase Simon Pegg, "I'd like to get my hands on her ample hangar bays!"
The Nebula is called the Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit for a reason. The ship is an engineering oriented Science Vessel rather than a science oriented Cruiser. The shield modifier is on par with every other fleet level Science Vessel in the game.
The turn rate is just fine considering the Fleet Nebula has more hull than any other Science Vessel in the game. Science Vessel turn rates/Inertia: 9/40, 11/40, 12/40, 12/40, 13/40, 13/40, 15/50. Two degrees fewer than the second best is not a significant penalty considering the ship has four engineering console slots and the best hull rating in the game. There is nothing wrong with using Science Vessel abilities on the Nebula. Claiming otherwise is completely absurd. If you can't figure out how help the ship reach 30+ turn rate/second, then you need to review basic game mechanics.
Tactical consoles are overrated, especially on a Science Vessel. The ship has 6 weapon slots because it is a Science Vessel. The hull strength is lower than a Cruiser because the ship is a Science Vessel with a Science Vessel shield modifier.
The Nebula was portrayed throughout cannon as a Science oriented Cruiser. This was shifted into the Star Trek Armada game series and again into Star Trek Online. I was actually delighted to see that Cryptic decided to make the Nebula a Engineering oriented Science Vessel. It felt right and I enjoy the ship very much. If you don't like the ship, then don't fly the ship. It is that simple.
The Vesta is nowhere close to the ultimate Science Vessel. Yes it has a hangar, but it pays heavily for that in terms of hull, shields, and turn rate. The ship has the lowest fleet level shield stats, ties with Voyager for the second lowest hull modifier, and ties Voyager for the third lowest hull modifier. The only science vessel truly made obsolete by the Vesta is the Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit (Voyager), which is essentially a Vesta without a hangar or universal bridge officer stations in exchange for 5% more shields. Every other Science Vessel on the federation side has unique features and properties. The "flexible" bridge officer layout on the Vesta severely limits the ship's ability to run high end science abilities.
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I'm going to skip the commentary about other video games because they're video games and not canon.
And only focus on how it was portrayed on-screen.
Which was as a multi-role vessel. And the added traingular module, in one specific episode was fitted with torpedo launchers.
Did it do science? Yeah. But it also did patrol and combat type stuff too. It was multi-faceted and that was its gimmick with the module. That it could be fitted for different mission parameters.
In my opinion this flexibility is represented in the universal lt slot which is a pretty powerful option. That's more tac stations than the "Dreadnaught Cruiser" has.
Yeah, we all want LTC tacs on all out ships, but the Nebula is actually fine. I'd wish the Exploration Cruiser would share the BOFF layout with ENG and SCI swapped, they are one design lineage after all.
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Ship is fine for me as is. esp the boff setup.
I'd like to see some other skins for her mainly the sensor pod the Phoenix used.
I didnt see any difference between the nebulas mission focus and the galaxies mission focus on screen.
Beeing build of mainly the same components I always considered them pretty much as variants of the same ship, having pretty much the same capacities. Plus the module in case of the nebula...
1) one more forward weapon slot, or
2) one hanger bay.
That would be it, its a big enough and slow enough ship to accommodate either, so why not, wouldn't make it overpowered at all. I quite like the ship, though I've only played around with it a little, but I do find it a touch restrictive with its weaponry, but I fly more cruisers than anything so i'm used to the 4/4 .
Its consoles, hull, turn, boff seating, leave it all the same, we're talking about bringing a ship up a bit in tech, not pushing it to the head of the pack
A sensor module (pheonix type) that turns on your secondary sensor and makes the Commander sci, and the LT comm engineer.
The tactical modules we have that swap the LT Comm Sci and the LT tactical for a LT Comm Tact and a LT Sci, but makes a hardwired special proton torpedo or forward weapon slot availible.
or an Eng module (arguably the Venture version), that increased regneration rates (shield and hull) sector space max warp speed, and maybe grants some sorta special thingy to make it useful inside missions too. Maybe even grant something like the Excelsior Transwarp capabilities.
I'm with our furry friend on this one - I'd like the Venture family extended to cover the Nebula, it makes sense.
The hangar... I'm not sure about that one. On the one hand the mission pod shows two visible launch pads, on the other hand I think we have enough hangars on everything already. But I still root for a ship featuring THESE. Maybe we could get a special mission pod carrying two sentry pods. Docked they would serve as a fourth weapon slot and seperated they would be two auxilliary craft. It's different from a hangar, but still another ship that uses some kind of aux craft/separation mechanic.
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> totally useless for science abilities because of turn rate
Is that what I'm hearing people say?
That's right. It's a hybrid.
Do you know what a hybrid is? Something that can do both X and Y, but neither as well as something dedicated to doing X or Y.
It's like the Miranda. It can do everything, but it can't do anything well.
You're expecting the Nebula to be better than the Odyssey and the Intrepid-classes, and it's not, so you're disappointed. Yes? Am I close?
It's a slower, durable science ship. It's not a cruiser. It's not a science ship. It's a Nebula.
While I agree with you that there is nothing particularly wrong with the Nebula in itself (it was my main ship before the Ambassador came along), I kinda get where the people saying it has no role are coming from.
When the Nebula was introduced, a ship's natural defences were more important than they are now; the Nebula excelled because it had both strong shields and a tough hull. The game has changed a lot since then though; now survivability owes more to what gear sets and rep abilities you have. Having a thicker hull than other science ships is unlikely to save a Neb any more.
What's more, overcoming the challenges of the modern game really requires a degree of specialization. Not saying the Nebula can't do that, but it undermines the theme, so to speak. Being a jack-of-all-trades just isn't an advantage any more; rather, it is something you have to try and work around.
The Nebula has its advantages, but those advantages have become irrelevant as the game developed. It's trying to fill a niche that just isn't there any more IMO.
Kind of. I mean if you're reading my posts, I'm definitely saying "totally useless for science abilities because of turn rate."
But I'm saying that in the context of the past.
These days, much of what made me say that has been alleviated.
Back when it debuted, I was infuriated because it turned too slow to use narrow arc science abilities.
In the game right now? The arc is wider. Turning is easier. And the ship can do what it does a lot more effectively than when it first appeared.
Man, when the Nebula went live, I was such a PO'd poster. Science ships needed to turn faster than that just to get their science abilities going. And it was such a slug/bathtub/dog/whatever-you-want-to-call it.
But yeah, that complaint in March 2014 seems a bit off. Definitely.
In MMO's it's usually an insult.
EQ Druids! Main Heals! hahahahahahahah
You need to think about the Nebula from a Science Vessel perspective rather than a Cruiser perspective.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
On the other hand, it can be a really powerful healer in PvP and with the console of the Retrofit actually a nice Cloaker-Trap
Sort of my point.
So you're just ranting, okay.
Okay... having pulled out the Nebula retrofit Cryptic gave out months ago and set it up as a transphasic/kinetic trapper and disabler.. this is FUN. It's durable enough to tank quite well (using the Solanae set and the Obelisk core), has a LtC Engineering station for eject warp plasma, two Lt stations for FAW, TT, TS and DPB. It's slow, but that may be alleviated by power settings or a RCS console. I'm also running gravity well II and feedback pulse, so 3 partigens.
It is AWESOME.
And remember, you can get the fleet version for a single ship module.
Well worth it, imo.
Extra 10% shields and hull, which puts its shield modifier right up there with a Wells.
Another engineering console, which on first blush isnt exciting......but when you consider how much the Nebula benefits from decent engineering consoles......Either RCS or armour (and fleet can be both) gives the Nebula a boost.
She's a fine ship, at this stage of the game.
See... that's funny.