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What's your beef with the Nebula, Cryptic?
cptrichardson12
Member Posts: 143 Arc User
Yes, it's time to start another one of THOSE threads. Namely, this time for one of the least used science vessels in the game, the Nebula.
Ironically, it wouldn't be such a bad ship, if it wasn't for the fact that it tries to be a cruiser and a science ship, and doesn't play to the strengths of either.
It will carry a secondary deflector, and has a shield modifier best described as 'excessive' even before the fleet version is even considered, cmdr science boff, and a better turn rate than almost any cruiser.
Except: it has a lower turn rate than any science vessel so using point science abilities is out of the question, it has more engineering consoles than needed over a third tac console, it has 3/3 weapons instead of a cruiser's 4/4, and the hull strength is that of a science ship instead of a cruiser. The worst of both worlds.
So, how do we fix this?
Ironically, it wouldn't be such a bad ship, if it wasn't for the fact that it tries to be a cruiser and a science ship, and doesn't play to the strengths of either.
It will carry a secondary deflector, and has a shield modifier best described as 'excessive' even before the fleet version is even considered, cmdr science boff, and a better turn rate than almost any cruiser.
Except: it has a lower turn rate than any science vessel so using point science abilities is out of the question, it has more engineering consoles than needed over a third tac console, it has 3/3 weapons instead of a cruiser's 4/4, and the hull strength is that of a science ship instead of a cruiser. The worst of both worlds.
So, how do we fix this?
Post edited by cptrichardson12 on
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:eek:
I dunno, the Nebula is like a cross between the "Science" and "Cruiser" ships. I consider it a niche ship that is neither awesome nor junk and is best used by players that can make it work well.
Then again, its description DOES call it the "workhorse" of the Federation, so it's supposed to be a jack of all trades ship.
...
You think we can slap on Dual Cannons and call it a day?
I agree. As said, the boff layout is fine. A meaner support cruiser in terms of boff abilities (grav well 3, TBR 3, etc)
It's the kinetics that let it down the most. It doesn't have the weapons slots to go cruiserish, and its speed and turn rate prevent it from going full science vessel.
Change one or the other, and it would become a rather potent and wanted ship. No console changes or boff changes needed (unlike the galaxies)
Also keep in mind that back then the science powers had a much more narrow arc of fire. Making the slow turn rate on a ship that could equip all of these narrow arc science powers infuriating. It couldn't properly harness the science aspect of its layout because it was too much of a cruiser.
It should have always been a cruiser.
I think if any ship deserves a complete scrap and reboot from the ground up, it's the Nebula. Simply because when it was created there were no such things as 3-pack bundles, tactical-engi-sci "versions" or different "modes." (Well I guess the Garumba had a mode switch, but I'm trying to remember if it was before or after the Nebula).
Thing is, I doubt they can do it. Or would do it. Because it's an old ship. And already you know entrenched into what it is. And a lot of people already spent resources on it.
So it seems like a dead horse topic.
And it's taking all my willpower not to succumb to the ire and vitriol I still have for how the Nebula came to being in STO. The only thing that angers me more is the way the Excelsior was released as superior to the Sovereign. Which I later found out was heavily influenced by a certain someone's own fan bias and taste (They liked the Excelsior best, so it had to be better than the current assault cruiser! ARGH!)
A NEW Nebula might be cool, but since it already has a fleet version, it'd probably be more like a modern ship inspired by the Nebula and look kind of like the Avenger. I don't know. Maybe.
But actually rebooting the Nebula? I don't see it happening. And thinking about how they handled the Nebula in the first place just makes me mad.
I'll give some credit though, with the 180 degree arcs now it's a much better experience flying it.
But it is old and there are better science ships to do science stuff. And better cruisers to do cruiser stuff.
I still love its look. But ...
Ugh.
Just ugh.
The idea of the Nebula in the show was 'slightly cut down Galaxy that turned into the new Miranda'. Its biggest letdown is the weaponry. And as cryptic at least once was willing to put more weapons slots on (galaxy dread), why not ask for it? Best solution to the ship that I can see.
Beck, even 4/3 or 4/2 would make it a far scarier ship, as it would make A Dual Beam Bank build possible.
Making it the jack of all trades ship it COULD be would do wonders for it.
The ship its kitbashed from is a dog and you want to know why it is a dog too? really?
P.S. The build I'm talking about also works fairly well in STFs as I was able to take out cubes in a fairly low amount of time.
Aw man, really? This thread I don't think needs more Galaxy discussion. Aren't there enough threads to discuss the Galaxy?
/sigh
I've gotten first place in CE in the Galaxy, the Star Cruiser, the Reagent, the Nebula, the Vesta, and a Charal.
I'm not sure that's indicative of anything other than the CE is one of their better designed encounters because it's got more to it than just straight damage.
Except no, the whole point is to bring a sub par ship (the Nebula VA) back to match the rest of the ships. They want to try and claim it's a hybrid science/cruiser vessel? Then its time to finish making it so and bring it back to spec.
A science vessel that can do cruiser-ey things almost on par with cruisers. Which means giving it another weapon to balance it between cruisers and science vessels.
This is a ship that cryptic will make tons of money off of a trivial change (that they have done before) that will massively correct the dynamics of a vessel, because almost nobody flies them anymore. Other than my own, I have seen three nebulas TOTAL in the past year. And they're not that bad boff-wise. It is the weapons and the weapons alone that make it worthless. It could be much better, and it can be done WITHOUT breaking whatever scant handful of nebulas remaining in-game.
So what makes it "sub par?" not enough DPS? I don't quite understand your "beef." It's a science ship.
no:)
sorry:D
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/CapeMike/screenshot_2014-03-09-23-24-20.jpg
Currently equipped with the M.A.C.O. space set, and an assortment of universal consoles I've earned, along with several Voth AntiProton Beams, the Borg Cutting Beam, a Rapid Reload Transphasic Torp Launcher up front, and the Breen Transphasic Cluster Launcher in back, I've dealt with it's sub-par turn rate with some RCS Eng. Consoles, and the BoFFs are set-up to turn the ship into a defensive support tank with some crowd control abilities, as well....
Gets the job done pretty well in stfs and occasionally places in CE and CE-Elite, if I get busy healing/repairing other ships!
Except, no it isn't. By the devs own words, it was meant to be a Science/Cruiser HYBRID. Both, not 'neither' as it is now.
It doesn't have enough science boff slots to properly high-level science shenanigans. It has a Science Cmdr. and an engineering lt. Cmdr. Slot.
It can't cruiser FAW shenanigans because it doesn't have enough weapons to do it.
About the only thing it CAN do well is survive. It probably has the best tank in the game right now thanks to the team changes.
But WAIT! That's not a viable strategy in the game thanks to cryptic.
I'm not asking for a ship that can outshoot a Vesta. I'm not asking for a ship that can out-SCIENCE an Intrepid. I'm not asking for a ship that can out-tank a galaxy (though I got it anyway). I want a ship that is the support cruiser of science vessels. Competent, but not master of all things that can do just about anything well enough without completely changing your build to do something different. A ship that can work in endgame content like STF's and other queue events without being a drag on the team.
I'm not asking for console or boff changes, just an extra weapon to finish making it a hybrid. Is it REALLY that much to ask?
I cant agree with you. The Olympic, D'kyr, Nebula, and Vo'quv all have that lt com engineering station and they're all good ships...well the D'kyr needs a fleet ship but that's for another thread.
As for the engineering station, it can fit EPtA3, EPtS3, EPtE3, EWP1....there's lots of ways to use that station and each choice fundamentally changes how the ship will play. It also has a universal station that is really helpful. The only other ship to do that is the Vesta, but that gives it way too many eng stations.
When I use my Fleet nebula i'm not a drag on my team. I'm using a kinetic/exotic damage build with GW, Grav torpedoes, Warp Plasma, and doffed TBR. It does great damage through shields.
In PvE the Nebula is good enough for all content, for PvP it's one of the best science ships in the game.
Of all the ships in the game, the nebula isn't in need of a "Beef" thread.
I'm ignorant, can you explain this please?
Tanks are completely useless in STO's endgame, PVE or PVP. There is literally no need for them, which makes ships MEANT for tanking, relatively useless. The Nebula's main thing is being a tank, support, and Healer, but the first one does not matter, healers are relegated to PVP (as useless in PVE, and support only plays a marginal (if useful) role in PVE.
Most absurd thing to say is to detach the mission pod and allow escorts to mount with you. Give them boosted fire power and act as a turret. A very very powerful turret. Very untrek though. :cool:
But,
The role of a tank would be much more important because the escort and the Nebula become one entity and are now drawing aggro because of your now 13 weapons going off at once.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Member since early 2011
I'm prety sue the gurambe came out long after the nebula, wouldn't be surprised if it was more then a year later.
Still, mechanically, the galaxy r was the first ship with a mode switch (beeing the saucer separation).
I thing they should have reworked the nebula along with the galaxys, after all, it's 90% the same ship.
And those needed a closer look to (especially with the tech from the Dyson ships in mind)
It's a pity. After all those are iconic ships, I can't stand them (that means all canon ships) to beeing shafted in favor of cryptics awful self creations and left as "old ships".
They should get all of those toys like switching bos and universals and 5 weapon slots and all that kind if stuff new releases get.
Not until they finally come to their senses and give the galaxy-x the LtCmDr tac slot it deserves.
Back to the nebula.. only thing i would like to see is Subsystem targeting compatible with cannons and torpedoes.
Having a complete blast with SC/turret build or torpedo bomber build on the Nebula. Only thing that would make it even more fun is the above mentioned.
Someone mentioned to just slap on some DHC, but that would make it too similar to the vesta and dyson. Not even mentioning the inevitable hangar mention.
Just subsystem targeting with cannons and torpedoes and I'm a happy camper.
I really thing ppl should stop to bite on the bit with that lc tac slot.
I don't think the request is unreasonable, I also thing the ship needs more love, but with that kind of fixation on that and only that fix will not help your cause.
In fact, at this point, if I were cryptic I'd change it into an lc sci slot just to p*** those guys off...
Yup, its a tank of a science ship which pays for its utter tankishness with turn rate.
However, turn rate is easy enough to get past, especially with fleet engineering consoles.
The toon that is currently flying one is relatively new, so there's not a ton of good equipment on it.
Blue Mk XI phasers, an incomplete Solenae space set and some of Dyson rep torp.
Even has a mine launcher on the back.
So, DPS is not where it should be.
But, the beauty is, a competent science captain just doesn't die in it.
It wasn't always that way. In fact, that's rather recent. The addition of starbases. The fleet consoles. And then the boost to turn rate consoles. Plus the change to widen the firing arc of science powers. All these things are great. But came way after the Nebula debuted.
There was a lot of ire and frustration over the way they set the Nebula up initially.
It was like, "here, have a science ship that can't turn!"