True, but in terms of the aliens' relation to us it is similar to #1--i.e. it places the aliens as superior to humanity. To rephrase the four scenarios I outlined in terms of the relationship of aliens to us vis a vis salvation:
1: The aliens are our betters.
2: The aliens are without hope and thus our inferiors (A dangerous idea because it easily leads to the idea that God would approve of us treating them like particularly-clever animals, thus leading to violence, enslavement, etc. directed at the aliens by humans. If we can convince ourselves that God ordained for different-looking humans to be our slaves, then how much easier to convince ourselves of the same for non-humans?).
3: The aliens are basically equal to us even if their religious traditions appear different.
4: Humanity has a special duty to spread the One True Way to others, whether they like it or not (which can lead to forced conversions and marginalization of those who refuse).
The issue at stake is not so much one of the centrality of the Earth as it is of the role of Humanity--are Humans above other beings, beneath them, or just one more face in a vast multitude? The Cosmic zoom-out and Cosmic Calendar used in the first episode of the show emphasizes that Humanity is relatively insignificant compared to the vastness of the All--to use Carl Sagan's own words, the Earth is "a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam," and on the Cosmic Calendar our entire history is but an eyeblink.
On the other hand, the very vastness of space and time means that there is that much more room to expand. Like in Star Trek, if we can learn how to travel between the stars, then we could fill them, bit by bit, but never completely exhausting the Final Frontier. Did the discovery and settlement of the Americas diminish the European nations? Only in the sense that they created an offspring that became more powerful than its fathers (the USA). Likewise, spreading out into the vast universe would not diminish Earth except in that we might create something much greater (e.g. the Federation).
True, but in terms of the aliens' relation to us it is similar to #1--i.e. it places the aliens as superior to humanity. To rephrase the four scenarios I outlined in terms of the relationship of aliens to us vis a vis salvation:
1: The aliens are our betters.
This really depends on who makes first contact. If we make first contact, are we the aliens, and as such are we their betters? Would having the salvation of Christ make us better than them? On the other hand, would not needing the salvation of Christ make them better than us?
We have done many brutal and horrific things in the name of religion. Would an alien species have their own religion? If they do, would they have their own inquisition? If they don't, would we force our beliefs on them, violently if necessary?
2: The aliens are without hope and thus our inferiors (A dangerous idea because it easily leads to the idea that God would approve of us treating them like particularly-clever animals, thus leading to violence, enslavement, etc. directed at the aliens by humans. If we can convince ourselves that God ordained for different-looking humans to be our slaves, then how much easier to convince ourselves of the same for non-humans?).
I suppose it comes down to our history of altering God to fit our beliefs rather than altering our beliefs to fit God. We have always feared what we do not understand, and if there is an alien species we meet -- we will not understand them, so we will fear them. And where there is that fear of the unknown, religion is not far behind.
3: The aliens are basically equal to us even if their religious traditions appear different.
If they had religious traditions. It could just as easily be a case of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" in that they may not have any religious traditions, nor would they care one way or the other about our own -- but if we attempted to push our beliefs on them and continued in our destructive habits in the face of "First Contact", then they may be obliged by the interstellar community to turn our planet into a cinder.
4: Humanity has a special duty to spread the One True Way to others, whether they like it or not (which can lead to forced conversions and marginalization of those who refuse).
At the very least.
The issue at stake is not so much one of the centrality of the Earth as it is of the role of Humanity--are Humans above other beings, beneath them, or just one more face in a vast multitude? The Cosmic zoom-out and Cosmic Calendar used in the first episode of the show emphasizes that Humanity is relatively insignificant compared to the vastness of the All--to use Carl Sagan's own words, the Earth is "a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam," and on the Cosmic Calendar our entire history is but an eyeblink.
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. It always has been. It's in our genes, our blood. Our society has evolved on the destruction and suffering of other human beings who we thought (and still think) are beneath us. For every step of progress made in our civilization, it has been at the cost of blood and tears -- and seldomly from those who created that progress.
To think that our nature can disappear overnight in the face of some catalyst like meeting an alien species is wishful thinking at best. If we were capable of doing so, we would have done so multiple times in history when meeting a 'new' people we have not met before.
On the other hand, the very vastness of space and time means that there is that much more room to expand. Like in Star Trek, if we can learn how to travel between the stars, then we could fill them, bit by bit, but never completely exhausting the Final Frontier. Did the discovery and settlement of the Americas diminish the European nations? Only in the sense that they created an offspring that became more powerful than its fathers (the USA). Likewise, spreading out into the vast universe would not diminish Earth except in that we might create something much greater (e.g. the Federation).
What is power? I'm sure there are plenty of countries who would agree that it might have been better off that the settlement of North America did not happen for the chain of events that would have happened ever since then.
I'm pretty sure we've diminished European nations and nations not of Europe ever since our founding in multiple ways.
And if that's the case, expansionism and colonialism on an intra-galactic or inter-galactic scale would have dire consequences in the long-term. We wouldn't be the Federation, we'd be the Romulans or the Klingons. Taking and holding territory and forcing others to submit to the power they hold.
Earth could simply fall to another faction of human society who felt they were morally justified in doing so because of the superior resources and military power they built up as a result of 'good intentions' of settling the universe.
I found it a bit unfocused and not going deep enough. I suppose I will already know everything they talk about. (Except perhaps specific historical events about various scientists or ... dreamers?)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
This really depends on who makes first contact. If we make first contact, are we the aliens, and as such are we their betters? Would having the salvation of Christ make us better than them? On the other hand, would not needing the salvation of Christ make them better than us?
Well, the specific context I was referencing is the idea that the alien do not have Christ because they do not need Christ--i.e. that they are not so sinful that they could not be Saved without Christ. That would make them "less sinful" than Humans, and thus, in a sense, morally superior. The aliens either 1: Are acceptable to God without Christ, 2: Don't have and can't benefit from Christ, 3: Already have Christ in some sense, or 4: Need to have Christ taught to them.
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. It always has been. It's in our genes, our blood.
Our capacity to destroy has outpaced our judgement. Until gunpowder, killing or physically assaulting someone meant either going up to them and bludgeoning them or sticking something sharp into them one enemy at a time, or throwing projectiles (spears, rocks, arrows, etc.) using our own muscle power. Muzzle-loading firearms then took the need for muscle power out of the equation, and then repeating breach-loading firearms made multiple strikes at once possible. Now we have weapons that can annihilate the equivalent of a full army or a city at the push of a button, but our aggressive impulses are unable to distinguish "Kill them all" from killing just one enemy, which is why we can stomach the thought of nuking a city's population all at once more easily than the thought of shooting those same people one by one.
To think that our nature can disappear overnight in the face of some catalyst like meeting an alien species is wishful thinking at best. If we were capable of doing so, we would have done so multiple times in history when meeting a 'new' people we have not met before.
The only unity that is likely to happen is if we perceive the aliens as credible enemies (even in a "cold war" sort of way), in which case it will become an "us" (humans) vs. "them".
The only unity that is likely to happen is if we perceive the aliens as credible enemies (even in a "cold war" sort of way), in which case it will become an "us" (humans) vs. "them".
Wishful thinking.
That scenario requires all people to react the same way. When has that happened in human history? I see no reason to believe that it'd be substantially different from the way humans and Predators interact in those movies and comics.
In some cases, there were humans living on board Predator ships. Why? Preds are like Klingons in that they respect anyone with skills. This is integral to the endings of two of the movies in fact. (Predator 2 and AvP)
Well, the specific context I was referencing is the idea that the alien do not have Christ because they do not need Christ--i.e. that they are not so sinful that they could not be Saved without Christ. That would make them "less sinful" than Humans, and thus, in a sense, morally superior. The aliens either 1: Are acceptable to God without Christ, 2: Don't have and can't benefit from Christ, 3: Already have Christ in some sense, or 4: Need to have Christ taught to them.
This makes more sense.
Our capacity to destroy has outpaced our judgement. Until gunpowder, killing or physically assaulting someone meant either going up to them and bludgeoning them or sticking something sharp into them one enemy at a time, or throwing projectiles (spears, rocks, arrows, etc.) using our own muscle power. Muzzle-loading firearms then took the need for muscle power out of the equation, and then repeating breach-loading firearms made multiple strikes at once possible. Now we have weapons that can annihilate the equivalent of a full army or a city at the push of a button, but our aggressive impulses are unable to distinguish "Kill them all" from killing just one enemy, which is why we can stomach the thought of nuking a city's population all at once more easily than the thought of shooting those same people one by one.
This is correct. It is also part of the reason why meeting an alien species could be construed as a bad idea. As a society we have never been more comfortable with seeing humans as numbers and statistics as we have today. We see it in war, business, healthcare, and any other facets of civilization. As our population increases, we have less emphasis on the individual and more emphasis on groups of individuals.
This isn't a new thing, since we've all displayed this line of thought throughout history, but it has never been as strong as it is today.
The only unity that is likely to happen is if we perceive the aliens as credible enemies (even in a "cold war" sort of way), in which case it will become an "us" (humans) vs. "them".
We will always see people we do not understand as enemies. The first step of seeing someone as an enemy is by dehumanizing them. It is why military specialists cherry-pick videos of people in other countries commiting horrible acts and labeling "everyone" from that country as just like them.
We never saw the natives of America as anything else other than enemies. Vermin to be cleared. Savages to be 'tamed'. Take your pick. We never saw them as true equals because we did not understand them.
Wars are waged under the idea that whoever we are defeating are less than human in some way. I do not think you can dehumanize anyone more than an extra-terrestrial species, regardless of their technological superiority.
Comments
1: The aliens are our betters.
2: The aliens are without hope and thus our inferiors (A dangerous idea because it easily leads to the idea that God would approve of us treating them like particularly-clever animals, thus leading to violence, enslavement, etc. directed at the aliens by humans. If we can convince ourselves that God ordained for different-looking humans to be our slaves, then how much easier to convince ourselves of the same for non-humans?).
3: The aliens are basically equal to us even if their religious traditions appear different.
4: Humanity has a special duty to spread the One True Way to others, whether they like it or not (which can lead to forced conversions and marginalization of those who refuse).
The issue at stake is not so much one of the centrality of the Earth as it is of the role of Humanity--are Humans above other beings, beneath them, or just one more face in a vast multitude? The Cosmic zoom-out and Cosmic Calendar used in the first episode of the show emphasizes that Humanity is relatively insignificant compared to the vastness of the All--to use Carl Sagan's own words, the Earth is "a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam," and on the Cosmic Calendar our entire history is but an eyeblink.
On the other hand, the very vastness of space and time means that there is that much more room to expand. Like in Star Trek, if we can learn how to travel between the stars, then we could fill them, bit by bit, but never completely exhausting the Final Frontier. Did the discovery and settlement of the Americas diminish the European nations? Only in the sense that they created an offspring that became more powerful than its fathers (the USA). Likewise, spreading out into the vast universe would not diminish Earth except in that we might create something much greater (e.g. the Federation).
This really depends on who makes first contact. If we make first contact, are we the aliens, and as such are we their betters? Would having the salvation of Christ make us better than them? On the other hand, would not needing the salvation of Christ make them better than us?
We have done many brutal and horrific things in the name of religion. Would an alien species have their own religion? If they do, would they have their own inquisition? If they don't, would we force our beliefs on them, violently if necessary?
I suppose it comes down to our history of altering God to fit our beliefs rather than altering our beliefs to fit God. We have always feared what we do not understand, and if there is an alien species we meet -- we will not understand them, so we will fear them. And where there is that fear of the unknown, religion is not far behind.
If they had religious traditions. It could just as easily be a case of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" in that they may not have any religious traditions, nor would they care one way or the other about our own -- but if we attempted to push our beliefs on them and continued in our destructive habits in the face of "First Contact", then they may be obliged by the interstellar community to turn our planet into a cinder.
At the very least.
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. It always has been. It's in our genes, our blood. Our society has evolved on the destruction and suffering of other human beings who we thought (and still think) are beneath us. For every step of progress made in our civilization, it has been at the cost of blood and tears -- and seldomly from those who created that progress.
To think that our nature can disappear overnight in the face of some catalyst like meeting an alien species is wishful thinking at best. If we were capable of doing so, we would have done so multiple times in history when meeting a 'new' people we have not met before.
What is power? I'm sure there are plenty of countries who would agree that it might have been better off that the settlement of North America did not happen for the chain of events that would have happened ever since then.
I'm pretty sure we've diminished European nations and nations not of Europe ever since our founding in multiple ways.
And if that's the case, expansionism and colonialism on an intra-galactic or inter-galactic scale would have dire consequences in the long-term. We wouldn't be the Federation, we'd be the Romulans or the Klingons. Taking and holding territory and forcing others to submit to the power they hold.
Earth could simply fall to another faction of human society who felt they were morally justified in doing so because of the superior resources and military power they built up as a result of 'good intentions' of settling the universe.
On a offtopic note, can we have Carl Sagan's bridge added to the game? :P
Well, the specific context I was referencing is the idea that the alien do not have Christ because they do not need Christ--i.e. that they are not so sinful that they could not be Saved without Christ. That would make them "less sinful" than Humans, and thus, in a sense, morally superior. The aliens either 1: Are acceptable to God without Christ, 2: Don't have and can't benefit from Christ, 3: Already have Christ in some sense, or 4: Need to have Christ taught to them.
Our capacity to destroy has outpaced our judgement. Until gunpowder, killing or physically assaulting someone meant either going up to them and bludgeoning them or sticking something sharp into them one enemy at a time, or throwing projectiles (spears, rocks, arrows, etc.) using our own muscle power. Muzzle-loading firearms then took the need for muscle power out of the equation, and then repeating breach-loading firearms made multiple strikes at once possible. Now we have weapons that can annihilate the equivalent of a full army or a city at the push of a button, but our aggressive impulses are unable to distinguish "Kill them all" from killing just one enemy, which is why we can stomach the thought of nuking a city's population all at once more easily than the thought of shooting those same people one by one.
The only unity that is likely to happen is if we perceive the aliens as credible enemies (even in a "cold war" sort of way), in which case it will become an "us" (humans) vs. "them".
That scenario requires all people to react the same way. When has that happened in human history? I see no reason to believe that it'd be substantially different from the way humans and Predators interact in those movies and comics.
In some cases, there were humans living on board Predator ships. Why? Preds are like Klingons in that they respect anyone with skills. This is integral to the endings of two of the movies in fact. (Predator 2 and AvP)
My character Tsin'xing
This makes more sense.
This is correct. It is also part of the reason why meeting an alien species could be construed as a bad idea. As a society we have never been more comfortable with seeing humans as numbers and statistics as we have today. We see it in war, business, healthcare, and any other facets of civilization. As our population increases, we have less emphasis on the individual and more emphasis on groups of individuals.
This isn't a new thing, since we've all displayed this line of thought throughout history, but it has never been as strong as it is today.
We will always see people we do not understand as enemies. The first step of seeing someone as an enemy is by dehumanizing them. It is why military specialists cherry-pick videos of people in other countries commiting horrible acts and labeling "everyone" from that country as just like them.
We never saw the natives of America as anything else other than enemies. Vermin to be cleared. Savages to be 'tamed'. Take your pick. We never saw them as true equals because we did not understand them.
Wars are waged under the idea that whoever we are defeating are less than human in some way. I do not think you can dehumanize anyone more than an extra-terrestrial species, regardless of their technological superiority.