I know this might be a little off topic but I don't think cryptic's stack nerfing matters at all. People nowadays can double/triple/quantuple tap. Frankly, I stopped keeping track of how many times you can tap in this game. The meta hasn't changed so much that you need more than 3 to finish off someone.
Well, yeah - they removed the one set of stacking while continuing to add to all the other stacking one could do and drop out. They'll probably keep adding to the things you can drop out in that 2-3s period too without realizing it...or realizing it and not caring, cause their intended audience isn't capable of doing that.
Edit: To add to this, engie faw boats makes weird stuff happen in the game. Weeks ago, when I was still insane enough to queue up for pugs I brought my engi a2b mirror star cruiser in the public instances. I got 13 kills, the highest dpser on the team got 9. Did I kill all those 13 people? Heck no!!! I provided support fire, but I really really can't kill.
That has nothing to do with your character profession, its about FAW being an AOE skill.
I'll try to explain:
If damage generated by you hits an enemy player, the system "flags" you as an attacker towards said enemy player. FAW is AOE, so you pretty much flag every enemy player on the field. The flag expires after a while, however Aux2Bat brings FAW back again in no-time. The system doesn't weight the quality of your damage, even if you shoot with cotton balls. If an enemy player happens to die now by the hands of a spiker, you personally will get scored a point as well, regardless of the effectivness of your contribution.
That's one example of why the in-game scoreboard is useless.
His eng seems good because it's obviously part of a premade/fleet made. Yeah, his eng build got kills... Okay, that's great, coordinated sensor nukes against pugs tends to produce results like that. Still doesn't change the fact that a tac would have done it quicker, assuming he was flying a dpsing engie. It's not like he was in any danger in the first place.
My point is, his point is meaningless. Don't take it the wrong way Rylan, not being smug naysayer either, nothing against you Rylan, really.
Looking at his build, I have to say thats a pugger's build designed to fight pugs. As a side effect, it should also work well in PVE.
He basically "transfered" an OK tac cruiser build onto an engineer. He has only 2 crossheal abilities, which is kinda odd for an eng crusier, putting his crossheal abilities in the range of cookie-cutter tac escorts (like a patrol escort for example). The rest of his stuff is pretty much devoted to survibility (which is above-average) and damage generation (which is under-average due to not being a tac).
It will work nicely against pugs, It won't work that well against well balanced veteran pugmades, and against an experienced premade it won't work at all.
His build would work better if he was a tactical.
So it really depends, is he a lone pugger? Then it's ok. Does he want to play premade vs. premade? Then unfortunatly its not that great.
EDIT:
Looking at his last 10 matches on the Hilbert leaderboard, it seems that he usually plays with the same 3-4 guys. 8 of their last 10 matches they won, and as far as I can tell by the opponent names, it was pugs. The other 2 matches were against pugmades (not premades!) composed of vet players, the first loss against a "Trinity-made", and the second loss was against random bunch of Hobos (all being vets though).
That's one example of why the in-game scoreboard is useless.
The scoreboard isn't COMPLETELY useless. It contains two pieces of accurate, meaningful information: Pilot Name, and Deaths. Everything else is gibberish, though.
The scoreboard isn't COMPLETELY useless. It contains two pieces of accurate, meaningful information: Pilot Name, and Deaths. Everything else is gibberish, though.
well no, your wrong, and no body agrees with you because all the people who are good at this game know that engineers are fine. As an engineer you never die, shrug off vapes and laugh at any escort stupid enough to linger under his unbuffed, single target beam arrays. And with 1 person applying moderate pressure damage, who needs spike damage or sub nukes anymore?
Funny you say that, I had an interesting argument days ago about how premade eng healer are the best at catching spike dmg. All that because of miracle worker and rsf. So many premady folks tried hard to tell me a 3rd recluse sci is less useful than eng recluse. Logs were shown engies do 10~30% more healing. I'm still unconvinced but it's hard to argue against facts.
PvP is a complex environment and what we think is the rule might be the exception rather than the norm.
Meanwhile, if the same people are to believed, the last patch made healing stupidly easy and all matches last 3 hours, recluse healer of any sort, optional.
I'll post some logs from a few weeks ago, two recluses, one eng, one sci - i'll try to dig them out tonight and let you figure out which was which.
Looking at his build, I have to say thats a pugger's build designed to fight pugs. As a side effect, it should also work well in PVE.
He basically "transfered" an OK tac cruiser build onto an engineer. He has only 2 crossheal abilities, which is kinda odd for an eng crusier, putting his crossheal abilities in the range of cookie-cutter tac escorts (like a patrol escort for example). The rest of his stuff is pretty much devoted to survibility (which is above-average) and damage generation (which is under-average due to not being a tac).
It will work nicely against pugs, It won't work that well against well balanced veteran pugmades, and against an experienced premade it won't work at all.
His build would work better if he was a tactical.
So it really depends, is he a lone pugger? Then it's ok. Does he want to play premade vs. premade? Then unfortunatly its not that great.
EDIT:
Looking at his last 10 matches on the Hilbert leaderboard, it seems that he usually plays with the same 3-4 guys. 8 of their last 10 matches they won, and as far as I can tell by the opponent names, it was pugs. The other 2 matches were against pugmades (not premades!) composed of vet players, the first loss against a "Trinity-made", and the second loss was against random bunch of Hobos (all being vets though).
Depending on the match I swap out the boffs too. One build config drops DEM for A2SIF3, another drops the Lt tactical for another Lt Engy with some other heals on it. its really dependent on whats going on.
That match is an example of where this ship really shows its meanness. Yes I had Lonelder along with me, so it was the two of us queued together, but everyone else is a pug on both sides as far as I could tell.
The build was originally a PvE DPS ship that I started taking into the queues as a joke. Then I realized how hard it was to kill and that it also seemed to rip shield facings off of escorts with little effort. After some tweaking I turned it into a small group machine.
I dont have any illusions of taking it into a tournament fight, for example, but for casual pugging or just rolling with a couple of the guys its a mean little ship and holds its own even with tactical beamers along with it.
Im not your typical spacebar spammer either, I dont even USE a powers keybind, I activate things when I want them up. The only binds I have are the same thing, an assist and a distribute shields on my G key.
The ship does two things extremely well - it melts down people that arent being crossheal circle jerked, and it makes for a body on the field that isnt going to just pop in an instant the moment its focused on.
APA is nice and all, and I dont disagree that a tac can pull out a bigger spike hit, but when APA is on CD my DPS is actually higher than most tacs because I have more power between nadion inversion and EPS.
5000-7000 dps vs players is not uncommon, and 10k has happened before. The average decent player on my parses (even you mate) does around 3000-4000, which is good actually for a burster. Most players are far more casual than that, so for them a build like the one I am defending might very well be their ticket to getting at least somewhat better when they pug solo.
I wish the history went back more than 24 matches, a lot of the early ones from before even joining Vice were pretty insane and I was running totally alone in the queue.
Maybe the player makes the ship because from my experience it even holds its own vs veterans. Its me thinking out of the box and I am pleased with what it can do. It actually brought the engineers I have out of retirement completely.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Depending on the match I swap out the boffs too. One build config drops DEM for A2SIF3, another drops the Lt tactical for another Lt Engy with some other heals on it. its really dependent on whats going on.
That match is an example of where this ship really shows its meanness. Yes I had Lonelder along with me, so it was the two of us queued together, but everyone else is a pug on both sides as far as I could tell.
The build was originally a PvE DPS ship that I started taking into the queues as a joke. Then I realized how hard it was to kill and that it also seemed to rip shield facings off of escorts with little effort. After some tweaking I turned it into a small group machine.
I dont have any illusions of taking it into a tournament fight, for example, but for casual pugging or just rolling with a couple of the guys its a mean little ship and holds its own even with tactical beamers along with it.
Im not your typical spacebar spammer either, I dont even USE a powers keybind, I activate things when I want them up. The only binds I have are the same thing, an assist and a distribute shields on my G key.
The ship does two things extremely well - it melts down people that arent being crossheal circle jerked, and it makes for a body on the field that isnt going to just pop in an instant the moment its focused on.
APA is nice and all, and I dont disagree that a tac can pull out a bigger spike hit, but when APA is on CD my DPS is actually higher than most tacs because I have more power between nadion inversion and EPS.
5000-7000 dps vs players is not uncommon, and 10k has happened before. The average decent player on my parses (even you mate) does around 3000-4000, which is good actually for a burster. Most players are far more casual than that, so for them a build like the one I am defending might very well be their ticket to getting at least somewhat better when they pug solo.
I wish the history went back more than 24 matches, a lot of the early ones from before even joining Vice were pretty insane and I was running totally alone in the queue.
Maybe the player makes the ship because from my experience it even holds its own vs veterans. Its me thinking out of the box and I am pleased with what it can do. It actually brought the engineers I have out of retirement completely.
I guess thats the answer just throw A2b faw and dem on a ship and now its useful lol. I was looking for another option other then dps or heals but ok. I mean you said it in your earlier post broadside hit 3 abilities press space bar pretty blah if you ask me. Since most players playing from the beginning are bored with the current heal dps option that an eng has witch mind you a sci and a tac can do both as good if not better. This would give another option and add some variety to the game.
People have been running eng faw boats for years your not the first some were pretty nasty even before all the power creep. One thing i learned long ago is numbers dont mean **** in pvp the only thing that matters is wins and losses. There is a big difference between effective damage and faw spam and sci spam damage. Im in no way saying pressure damage and sci spam damage isnt useful. Im just saying in premades with good heals it is too slow and inconsistent to kill efficiently. Sure if you go in with 3 or more faw boats you will do ok but its not all about the numbers. Some of the best escorts in the game before vapers would not always have top dps but if they hit you you would know what effective damage was.
Also there have been many matches where a team destroys the other team in dps and still loses thats the difference between pve and pvp. In pvp its strategy timing coordination and teamwork that gets kills not dps. But im glad you are rocking the q with a eng cruiser faw boat i just want there to be another option is that a bad thing.
Hmmm. Is anyone else aware of how ridiculously self-contradicting this thread is? On the one hand, there's most players agreeing that tanks are useless, but in several posts, I've seen players complain about how NPCs continue to beat of the "meat-shield", and ignore the dps and healing ships. Is this not exactly a perfect role for a tank? Why would you wish to remove the only build capable of taking tremendous amounts of punishment to keep NPC agro on itself? Personally, I've found it very useful to have a teammate who can draw off npcs and not die long enough for you to get into a good spot or close enough to an objective and be completely unhindered. Personally, I'm happy with how my tank works. I can survive longer than anyone else, provide extra firepower, and set up to keep my team alive (hive onslaught is a perfect example of how a non-dps ship can outclass a glass cannon). No, I don't put out ridiculous amounts of damage, and no, I don't debuff enemies much. But when it comes down to it, there are several instances where its better to be a tank, or have one on your team, than it is to have 5 dps'ers.
For years now, every now and then threads like this pop up, and I remember Jorf having a blast messing around with people in these "engineer" threads , too bad he skips on this one.
Don't get me wrong, fly whatever you want, if you have fun with that ship, by all means enjoy yourself. It's fun ship, I get that.
But if you are claiming that this build of yours in addition of being fun is a strong pvp build, well that is kind of not so true so much. At least I hope you don't claim that, I am getting mixed signals from your posts which is confusing. I suppose if someone wanna Kirk it up and they have no other ideas what to do with their engineer, oh well then, you might as well give his build a shoot. But please don't expect wonders.
Something else that confuses me, you are measuring your build by a weird benchmark: Doing well against Pugs. Well, pure pugs tend to be mediocre opponents in most cases. So even if you succeed against pugs, you have only proven mediocracy. But nothing more. That is where we are having the disconnect I suppose. And worse, according to the leaderboard stuff you posted, in most cases you seem to play within a team (against pugs), which further masks some inadequacies of your build. If mediocracy is what you aim for, then mission accomplished. But why not aim higher? You ARE a talented player, I know that.
And regarding the leaderboard point system, there is something you should be aware of: The weaker your enemies are, the more points you'll be able to generate yourself. High numbers do not necessarily mean good build or good skill. Rating can drop severly if teamed against competent opponents. Let's take a certain vet tac PVP'er with an avg. rating of approx. 3k. Faced against a competent premade all of a sudden, his rating drops to just about 800 for that particular match. High rating by itself has no meaning.
Put that build on a tac, and you may have something there. But on an engineer, you just trade off meaningful damage output for meaningless survivability. That makes no sense. Survivability on its own has no merit in PVP. You always have to combine it with something useful, crossheals for example, or debuffs, or strong damage, or at least a "clever" tactic like playing bait. None of that can be found on your ship. Not in the extend that it would matter.
I hope I didnt come off as to mean or whatever. If I did, apologies, no offense intended.
Survivability on its own has no merit in PVP. You always have to combine it with something useful, crossheals for example, or debuffs, or strong damage, or at least a "clever" tactic like playing bait.
I like the way you stated that, it's much clearer than my rambling posts on the matter tend to be...and it's odd, imho, how often it comes up. There are so many threads/folks that want to "Tank" in the game, including in PvP - and it's usually a case of asking them...
"Tanky DPS?"
"Tanky Heals?"
"Tanky Support?"
There's having that enough tank to be able to do what you're doing...but you still got to do what you're doing.
If they're just going for the Last Man Standing thing, it may work great - they'll never die, but the other four guys on the team will likely die 15 times for them...
An Eng in a FAW Chel can rack up amazing damage numbers and healing numbers (meaningless damage and all self-heals) that vs. an average PUG can give the appearance that this guy's clearly the biggest threat...tada...bait. Vs. a *made though - they'll just kill everybody else or have the Sci to frag the Eng. An Eng in an AtB Shield Stripping JHEC can have all sorts of fun making targets naked for other members of the team to unload some kinetic love...while bouncing around going wheeee. Again, the average PUG is going to have trouble dealing with build while a *made will just crossheal through it and Sci-slap the Eng into the middle of next week.
It goes back to the "It depends!" answer to so many questions.
It depends on who you're flying with.
It depends on who you're flying against.
Changing either or both can completely change everything...
well no, your wrong, and no body agrees with you because all the people who are good at this game know that engineers are fine. As an engineer you never die, shrug off vapes and laugh at any escort stupid enough to linger under his unbuffed, single target beam arrays. And with 1 person applying moderate pressure damage, who needs spike damage or sub nukes anymore?
/scarcasm
Sorry,.. but i think your wrong.. if you fight vs a good Premade Team your Eng will be finsih fast.. i see that a lot of times in last days.. or you have a Zombie Crusier, but than you are useless for your Team.. . No Teamheals,.. no subnuke and for sure you kill nobody with eng faw alone. You need a tak for spike dmg or a sci for an subnuke.
So if you have a choise,.. i take 2 tak. and 3 sci. and not 2 tak and 3 eng. :rolleyes:
Anyway,.. maybe im wrong.. maybe.
greetings
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
T'lilu SCI./Dxxdavid TAK./STO Inner Circle *** R.I.P. ***
Comments
Grace was added with LoR. The Weapon Buff change happened after LoR. I don't remember the dates, I'm typing in my sleep.
Well, yeah - they removed the one set of stacking while continuing to add to all the other stacking one could do and drop out. They'll probably keep adding to the things you can drop out in that 2-3s period too without realizing it...or realizing it and not caring, cause their intended audience isn't capable of doing that.
That has nothing to do with your character profession, its about FAW being an AOE skill.
I'll try to explain:
If damage generated by you hits an enemy player, the system "flags" you as an attacker towards said enemy player. FAW is AOE, so you pretty much flag every enemy player on the field. The flag expires after a while, however Aux2Bat brings FAW back again in no-time. The system doesn't weight the quality of your damage, even if you shoot with cotton balls. If an enemy player happens to die now by the hands of a spiker, you personally will get scored a point as well, regardless of the effectivness of your contribution.
That's one example of why the in-game scoreboard is useless.
My favorite is healing. Parse a match. Compare the parse to a screenshot of the board. It's a trip.
Looking at his build, I have to say thats a pugger's build designed to fight pugs. As a side effect, it should also work well in PVE.
He basically "transfered" an OK tac cruiser build onto an engineer. He has only 2 crossheal abilities, which is kinda odd for an eng crusier, putting his crossheal abilities in the range of cookie-cutter tac escorts (like a patrol escort for example). The rest of his stuff is pretty much devoted to survibility (which is above-average) and damage generation (which is under-average due to not being a tac).
It will work nicely against pugs, It won't work that well against well balanced veteran pugmades, and against an experienced premade it won't work at all.
His build would work better if he was a tactical.
So it really depends, is he a lone pugger? Then it's ok. Does he want to play premade vs. premade? Then unfortunatly its not that great.
EDIT:
Looking at his last 10 matches on the Hilbert leaderboard, it seems that he usually plays with the same 3-4 guys. 8 of their last 10 matches they won, and as far as I can tell by the opponent names, it was pugs. The other 2 matches were against pugmades (not premades!) composed of vet players, the first loss against a "Trinity-made", and the second loss was against random bunch of Hobos (all being vets though).
Hehe yeah your right on that.
/scarcasm
Meanwhile, if the same people are to believed, the last patch made healing stupidly easy and all matches last 3 hours, recluse healer of any sort, optional.
I'll post some logs from a few weeks ago, two recluses, one eng, one sci - i'll try to dig them out tonight and let you figure out which was which.
Heh, I'd never noticed it until he mentioned it in another thread...
Depending on the match I swap out the boffs too. One build config drops DEM for A2SIF3, another drops the Lt tactical for another Lt Engy with some other heals on it. its really dependent on whats going on.
http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/encounter.php?id=6079
That match is an example of where this ship really shows its meanness. Yes I had Lonelder along with me, so it was the two of us queued together, but everyone else is a pug on both sides as far as I could tell.
The build was originally a PvE DPS ship that I started taking into the queues as a joke. Then I realized how hard it was to kill and that it also seemed to rip shield facings off of escorts with little effort. After some tweaking I turned it into a small group machine.
I dont have any illusions of taking it into a tournament fight, for example, but for casual pugging or just rolling with a couple of the guys its a mean little ship and holds its own even with tactical beamers along with it.
Im not your typical spacebar spammer either, I dont even USE a powers keybind, I activate things when I want them up. The only binds I have are the same thing, an assist and a distribute shields on my G key.
The ship does two things extremely well - it melts down people that arent being crossheal circle jerked, and it makes for a body on the field that isnt going to just pop in an instant the moment its focused on.
APA is nice and all, and I dont disagree that a tac can pull out a bigger spike hit, but when APA is on CD my DPS is actually higher than most tacs because I have more power between nadion inversion and EPS.
5000-7000 dps vs players is not uncommon, and 10k has happened before. The average decent player on my parses (even you mate) does around 3000-4000, which is good actually for a burster. Most players are far more casual than that, so for them a build like the one I am defending might very well be their ticket to getting at least somewhat better when they pug solo.
I wish the history went back more than 24 matches, a lot of the early ones from before even joining Vice were pretty insane and I was running totally alone in the queue.
Maybe the player makes the ship because from my experience it even holds its own vs veterans. Its me thinking out of the box and I am pleased with what it can do. It actually brought the engineers I have out of retirement completely.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I guess thats the answer just throw A2b faw and dem on a ship and now its useful lol. I was looking for another option other then dps or heals but ok. I mean you said it in your earlier post broadside hit 3 abilities press space bar pretty blah if you ask me. Since most players playing from the beginning are bored with the current heal dps option that an eng has witch mind you a sci and a tac can do both as good if not better. This would give another option and add some variety to the game.
People have been running eng faw boats for years your not the first some were pretty nasty even before all the power creep. One thing i learned long ago is numbers dont mean **** in pvp the only thing that matters is wins and losses. There is a big difference between effective damage and faw spam and sci spam damage. Im in no way saying pressure damage and sci spam damage isnt useful. Im just saying in premades with good heals it is too slow and inconsistent to kill efficiently. Sure if you go in with 3 or more faw boats you will do ok but its not all about the numbers. Some of the best escorts in the game before vapers would not always have top dps but if they hit you you would know what effective damage was.
Also there have been many matches where a team destroys the other team in dps and still loses thats the difference between pve and pvp. In pvp its strategy timing coordination and teamwork that gets kills not dps. But im glad you are rocking the q with a eng cruiser faw boat i just want there to be another option is that a bad thing.
For years now, every now and then threads like this pop up, and I remember Jorf having a blast messing around with people in these "engineer" threads
Don't get me wrong, fly whatever you want, if you have fun with that ship, by all means enjoy yourself. It's fun ship, I get that.
But if you are claiming that this build of yours in addition of being fun is a strong pvp build, well that is kind of not so true so much. At least I hope you don't claim that, I am getting mixed signals from your posts which is confusing. I suppose if someone wanna Kirk it up and they have no other ideas what to do with their engineer, oh well then, you might as well give his build a shoot. But please don't expect wonders.
Something else that confuses me, you are measuring your build by a weird benchmark: Doing well against Pugs. Well, pure pugs tend to be mediocre opponents in most cases. So even if you succeed against pugs, you have only proven mediocracy. But nothing more. That is where we are having the disconnect I suppose. And worse, according to the leaderboard stuff you posted, in most cases you seem to play within a team (against pugs), which further masks some inadequacies of your build. If mediocracy is what you aim for, then mission accomplished. But why not aim higher? You ARE a talented player, I know that.
And regarding the leaderboard point system, there is something you should be aware of: The weaker your enemies are, the more points you'll be able to generate yourself. High numbers do not necessarily mean good build or good skill. Rating can drop severly if teamed against competent opponents. Let's take a certain vet tac PVP'er with an avg. rating of approx. 3k. Faced against a competent premade all of a sudden, his rating drops to just about 800 for that particular match. High rating by itself has no meaning.
Put that build on a tac, and you may have something there. But on an engineer, you just trade off meaningful damage output for meaningless survivability. That makes no sense. Survivability on its own has no merit in PVP. You always have to combine it with something useful, crossheals for example, or debuffs, or strong damage, or at least a "clever" tactic like playing bait. None of that can be found on your ship. Not in the extend that it would matter.
I hope I didnt come off as to mean or whatever. If I did, apologies, no offense intended.
I like the way you stated that, it's much clearer than my rambling posts on the matter tend to be...and it's odd, imho, how often it comes up. There are so many threads/folks that want to "Tank" in the game, including in PvP - and it's usually a case of asking them...
"Tanky DPS?"
"Tanky Heals?"
"Tanky Support?"
There's having that enough tank to be able to do what you're doing...but you still got to do what you're doing.
If they're just going for the Last Man Standing thing, it may work great - they'll never die, but the other four guys on the team will likely die 15 times for them...
An Eng in a FAW Chel can rack up amazing damage numbers and healing numbers (meaningless damage and all self-heals) that vs. an average PUG can give the appearance that this guy's clearly the biggest threat...tada...bait. Vs. a *made though - they'll just kill everybody else or have the Sci to frag the Eng. An Eng in an AtB Shield Stripping JHEC can have all sorts of fun making targets naked for other members of the team to unload some kinetic love...while bouncing around going wheeee. Again, the average PUG is going to have trouble dealing with build while a *made will just crossheal through it and Sci-slap the Eng into the middle of next week.
It goes back to the "It depends!" answer to so many questions.
It depends on who you're flying with.
It depends on who you're flying against.
Changing either or both can completely change everything...
Engineers doing what they do best!
^^only 1.30 min long xD
Lag Industries Executive - Fleet Project Management
PvP Boot Camp Coach
STO - Will PvP For Food - Official OPVP Channel <-Click Me
/channel_join OrganizedPvP
I used to joke about things like that...I'd win because they'd fall asleep first.
lol
final score 6-0 for healers
bahh hahahahahah you actually used the song i mentioned
XD SCIMITAR DOWN!
That was fun for the first 10 minutes not gonna lie. But my god that took forever to even get one kill.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Sorry,.. but i think your wrong.. if you fight vs a good Premade Team your Eng will be finsih fast.. i see that a lot of times in last days.. or you have a Zombie Crusier, but than you are useless for your Team.. . No Teamheals,.. no subnuke and for sure you kill nobody with eng faw alone. You need a tak for spike dmg or a sci for an subnuke.
So if you have a choise,.. i take 2 tak. and 3 sci. and not 2 tak and 3 eng. :rolleyes:
Anyway,.. maybe im wrong.. maybe.
greetings
*** R.I.P. ***
Ups,..
*** R.I.P. ***