test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why do we need a "fleet store" if we have zen store ships that are just as powerful?

projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The announcement of the Galaxy "Reboot bundle" has brought with it sour grapes for some and the perverse squealing of others. The content in that announcement, according to Al Rivera's characterization of game content design activities (discussed here), is a result of metrics.

What those metrics say is that "players love FLEET ships." The catch is that fleet-ships were around before fleet-ships were fleet-ships, e.g. the Odyssey is the same today in all variations as it was when it was introduced - in fact its +10% +1 console status is the basis of the same template on fleet-store ships today. This means that the reality is that players don't love fleet ships - they love the Odyssey being more powerful than other ships, i.g. they love "PEW PEW."

The question I propose is why does the player base need single-character-single-use fleet store ships if Cryptic has been selling zen-store ships that are just as powerful since well before hand?

And since we can clearly obtain fleet-tier ships from the zen-store as account-unlocks, why are they going down the path of shortest-term-fiscal gains instead of long-term-customer-satisfaction?
Post edited by projectfrontier on

Comments

  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    1. many c-store ships have their own Fleet versions, actually most do except for the shps that already have 10 consoles slots like the bundle packs

    2. Fleet ships are character unlocks, not account, making you need to buy fleet modules on every character, which means more money in the long run (or at least that is what they believe)

    3. Odyssey is NOT more powerful than fleet ships, it is JUST as powerful

    4. when they are talking about fleet ships, they are talking about FLEET ships, not c-store ships at all

    5. IT is cryptic, and Cryptic/PWE are Ferengi.
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    5. IT is cryptic, and Cryptic/PWE are Ferengi.

    You are so right about that, but businesses need to make $$$. One of the good things they're really introduced is Arc.
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You can buy fleet ships without ever buying a key or opening a lockbox. That's why the game needs a fleet store.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    In my opinion, the only good that I found in fleet ships, is that I was able to get one without ever spending much Dilithium, or real money to get it. This means that those with little to no money can still get a powerful ship.

    It does suck that they are character bound, but at least they are easier, and way quicker to grind for, than C-Store ships. I mean the high end ships, not the ones below level 40 requirements to use.

    This is because all you need to do is get enough EC to buy the fleet ship modules off the exchange, and then donate enough to the fleet. However, trying to grind enough Dilithium, with the low refinement amount, makes it a long, and drawn out process.

    That being said, I only bought 1 fleet ship, and probably will never buy another. I am just sticking with the free ships I get in the game, and the grind ships (like the anniversary ship, and winter ships), since they can keep up in the end game content. After I save up the Dilithium, I will then buy a Kumari bundle for my Fed characters, and something for my Klingons from the C-Store.

    I already have the Scimitar bundle. After there is a good set for each faction, I have no further use for the rest of the C-Store ships.

    But I am done with fleet ship purchases after the one. I can now save up Dilithium faster now with 5 characters at level 50.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Depends on the ship. I'll use the mogh as my example since I'm getting this for my Klingon. I'd rather wait til my fleet hits T5 so I can buy the fleet version for one extra science console slot then to buy the zen store one without it.
    Sekhmet_Banner.jpg
    Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Cryptic Store ships are fine and all that, but not everyone wants to fly the horror that is Cryptic designs.

    All nice and candy, but the C-Store is generally off limits for me... Most of those Cryptic-ships are just too horrible to look at, so I fly the fleet defiant... Wich you can't get in the C-Store.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    And since we can clearly obtain fleet-tier ships from the zen-store as account-unlocks, why are they going down the path of shortest-term-fiscal gains instead of long-term-customer-satisfaction?

    Why don't they make a tier five galaxy 3 pack for every profession with full interior and non rushed model when they would make a damn fortune on the thing? We don't know. Sometimes Cryptic is seemingly allergic to money.
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    1. many c-store ships have their own Fleet versions, actually most do except for the shps that already have 10 consoles slots like the bundle packs

    2. Fleet ships are character unlocks, not account, making you need to buy fleet modules on every character, which means more money in the long run (or at least that is what they believe)

    3. Odyssey is NOT more powerful than fleet ships, it is JUST as powerful

    4. when they are talking about fleet ships, they are talking about FLEET ships, not c-store ships at all

    5. IT is cryptic, and Cryptic/PWE are Ferengi.

    Your responses are logical fallacies, they do not address let alone dispute the subtext of the question.

    Also, the premise of #3 (your claim that I wrote the Odyssey is more powerful than fleet ships) is a result of your poor reading comprehension AND #5 is a derogation against Cryptic.
    You are so right about that, but businesses need to make $$$. One of the good things they're really introduced is Arc.

    I'm going to point the moderators to your post history this week.
    stf65 wrote: »
    You can buy fleet ships without ever buying a key or opening a lockbox. That's why the game needs a fleet store.

    Though you do address the question your response is a logical fallacy arguing "because fleet ships come from the fleet store we don't need to purchase master keys for use in opening lockboxes".
    razar2380 wrote: »
    In my opinion, the only good that I found in fleet ships, is that I was able to get one without ever spending much Dilithium, or real money to get it. This means that those with little to no money can still get a powerful ship.

    It does suck that they are character bound, but at least they are easier, and way quicker to grind for, than C-Store ships. I mean the high end ships, not the ones below level 40 requirements to use.

    This is because all you need to do is get enough EC to buy the fleet ship modules off the exchange, and then donate enough to the fleet. However, trying to grind enough Dilithium, with the low refinement amount, makes it a long, and drawn out process.

    That being said, I only bought 1 fleet ship, and probably will never buy another. I am just sticking with the free ships I get in the game, and the grind ships (like the anniversary ship, and winter ships), since they can keep up in the end game content. After I save up the Dilithium, I will then buy a Kumari bundle for my Fed characters, and something for my Klingons from the C-Store.

    I already have the Scimitar bundle. After there is a good set for each faction, I have no further use for the rest of the C-Store ships.

    But I am done with fleet ship purchases after the one. I can now save up Dilithium faster now with 5 characters at level 50.

    Your response doesn't really address the question either, instead being mostly an anecdotal response to a different question "what value do the fleet store's ships have?" and "do the fleet store's ships attract return customers?"
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    Depends on the ship. I'll use the mogh as my example since I'm getting this for my Klingon. I'd rather wait til my fleet hits T5 so I can buy the fleet version for one extra science console slot then to buy the zen store one without it.

    Your response does not address the question either. So far everyone has avoided directly addressing the question, let's see what the last one says:
    anazonda wrote: »
    The Cryptic Store ships are fine and all that, but not everyone wants to fly the horror that is Cryptic designs.

    All nice and candy, but the C-Store is generally off limits for me... Most of those Cryptic-ships are just too horrible to look at, so I fly the fleet defiant... Wich you can't get in the C-Store.

    Proportionally this post is the most fallacy ridden of all and if we were to analogize the responses within terms of failing to actually address the question the forum is batting 1.000 right now.

    I shall lead by example and provide one argument in favor of the "fleet store" so far as ships are concerned:

    ARGUMENT:

    The fleet-store provides a repository for lower-tier ships to be made available "end-game."

    HOWEVER

    The C-Store already does that via RETROFIT ships.

    ALSO

    There are c-store ships that only differ stat-wise from Fleet-store Fleet-Tier ships because of the word "Fleet" being used in their descriptions

    THEREFORE

    The "Fleet Store" (so far as fleet ships are concerned) currently has no arguments that qualify it as necessary for the game.

    ADDITIONALLY

    Many of the fleet store's fleet ship's "unique skins" were previously available as purchasable skins (e.g. the skins of the Assault Cruiser, Star Cruiser, Patrol Escort, and Reconnaissance Science Vessel to name a few).

    CONSEQUENTLY

    The fleet store's fleet ships line-up is yet to be justified as necessary.

    sonnikku wrote: »
    Why don't they make a tier five galaxy 3 pack for every profession with full interior and non rushed model when they would make a damn fortune on the thing? We don't know. Sometimes Cryptic is seemingly allergic to money.

    While your post also does not address the question proposed it does broach the topic of "why is Cryptic focused on gimmick-based monetizing schemes instead of total customer care?"
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    The Cryptic Store ships are fine and all that, but not everyone wants to fly the horror that is Cryptic designs.

    All nice and candy, but the C-Store is generally off limits for me... Most of those Cryptic-ships are just too horrible to look at, so I fly the fleet defiant... Wich you can't get in the C-Store.

    Most of the C-store ships have the "canon" skins available, don't they? You don't have to use the Cryptic designs.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why are you playing this game, if you are against literally EVERY little thing in the game. You were complaining about the Colors of the outfits, despite teh show having colors change several times throughout the show. the arguments on this thread are the reasons c-store and fleet ships exist. you might not like the arguments, but they are the reasons. It seems to me that you are just annoyed that their are ships you have to have a fleet to get, or that are more powerful then c-store ships.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,982 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Fleet system is a resource dump first and foremost.

    The abiliy to get comparable ships and gear from the C-Store is the way to get $$$ from the rest of us.

    This I most heartedly approve of.
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Though you do address the question your response is a logical fallacy arguing "because fleet ships come from the fleet store we don't need to purchase master keys for use in opening lockboxes".
    If you do not understand that there are people who wish to have t5.5 ships but have no desire to take part in the lockbox lottery system then you're not a bright as you think you are.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    just to have it dropped:


    at introduction of fleet ships they stated that there'll never be 10 console c-store ships, aKa "not planned" and brought lockbox ships (bug, d'kora and galor by that point) on par with fleetships.

    not too long after that statement there has been the first 10 console c-store ships. not sure if the oddy and bort has been updated afterwards, if not the andorians had been the first ones.

    yeah... paint the brand new car from green to red after u purchased. we don't care about ur flavour or something like common sense or reliable long term plans. that would mean we'd to put thought into it, that's not what we get paid for ^^ ...because we are passionated buisnessmen :P.
    /rage off (won't start about roms and pvp and... andandandandand).

    if interested f.e. search for threads with "cyptics history with"... in the name.
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why are you playing this game, if you are against literally EVERY little thing in the game. You were complaining about the Colors of the outfits, despite teh show having colors change several times throughout the show. the arguments on this thread are the reasons c-store and fleet ships exist. you might not like the arguments, but they are the reasons. It seems to me that you are just annoyed that their are ships you have to have a fleet to get, or that are more powerful then c-store ships.

    Why are you running your mouth on a forum where the only arguments you can come up with involve mud-slinging and fabricated facts?
    The Fleet system is a resource dump first and foremost.

    The abiliy to get conparable ships and gear from the C-Store is the way to get $$$ from the rest of us.

    This I most heartedly approve of.

    Your response is not clear - are you saying that there are C-store ships which are equally powerful as a means to motivate spending?
    stf65 wrote: »
    If you do not understand that there are people who wish to have t5.5 ships but have no desire to take part in the lockbox lottery system then you're not a bright as you think you are.

    Your response is nothing but a series of logical fallacies even to its conclusion in the form of a personal-attack, and happens to be supremely baseless summarily.

    wast33 wrote: »
    just to have it dropped:

    at introduction of fleet ships they stated that there'll never be 10 console c-store ships, aKa "not planned" and brought lockbox ships (bug, d'kora and galor by that point) on par with fleetships.

    not too long after that statement there has been the first 10 console c-store ships. not sure if the oddy and bort has been updated afterwards, if not the andorians had been the first ones.

    yeah... paint the brand new car from green to red after u purchased. we don't care about ur flavour or something like common sense or reliable long term plans. that would mean we'd to put thought into it, that's not what we get paid for ^^ ...because we are passionated buisnessmen :P.
    /rage off (won't start about roms and pvp and... andandandandand).

    if interested f.e. search for threads with "cyptics history with"... in the name.

    Does this forum have a working search feature?
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ARGUMENT:

    The fleet-store provides a repository for lower-tier ships to be made available "end-game."

    HOWEVER

    The C-Store already does that via RETROFIT ships.


    "


    Fleet Nova vs Retrofit Nova vs Normal Nova. The first has 3 fore/3 aft weapon slots, far more consoles, more Boffs slots and is actually not that bad - comparable to the Dyson Ship in most areas.

    Difference between the Retro and Norm is a different saucer, a lieutenant sci instead of ensign sci, and one console slot. As the Norm is 15,000 Dil (or free if you choose it as you level a Fed) so 114 Zen at current rates, and the Retro is 750 Zen, it doesn't take a genius to work out the Retro is a waste of time, and certainly not on the Fleet versions level.


    Just one example, and it isn't alone.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why are you running your mouth on a forum where the only arguments you can come up with involve mud-slinging and fabricated facts?

    Because in a forum where "certain people" dissect posts' styles without addressing their content in any meaningful way, why bother? :rolleyes:
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Fleet system is a resource dump first and foremost.

    The abiliy to get conparable ships and gear from the C-Store is the way to get $$$ from the rest of us.

    This I most heartedly approve of.

    This is pretty much why both Fleet and C-Store exist and I hope, continue to exist.

    TL/DR: It increases ship sales resulting in more money for Cryptic.

    Basically they have introduced multiple paths using different resources to get ships of a given quality to appeal to different players and thereby increase their total income.

    If only the C-Store or Lockbox ships existed, some players would never buy them or only buy them very slowly.

    The fleet shipyard gives players another reason to dump EC and Dil into fleet holdings (in addition to the fleet gear which is a big motivator too), but more importantly, it makes most (if not all) of the C-Store ships purchasable with EC on a per-character basis. The stats are just the gravy to encourage someone to drop an extra $5 if they already have the account-wide unlock.

    Want an Armitage for every character? Buy it from the C-Store. Just want it on one character? Buy modules off the AH (which someone paid Cryptic real money to buy and list) then get it from the fleet shipyard. Either way Cryptic gets money.

    So if Fred has lots of money and Bob doesn't and never buys any zen, with just e C-store Cryptic will only sell Fred a $25 ship once. Since Fred can buy fleet modules for $20 and sell them to Bob on the AH, and Bob will earn and spend EC but not turn his Di into Zen (some people think it's "impossible" to earn thousands of zen so don't ever even try) Cryptic now earns $45 instead of just $25. If Frank, Dave, and Jeff also buy modules from Fred, Cryptic makes lots and lots more than just $25.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,962 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Fleet Nova vs Retrofit Nova vs Normal Nova. The first has 3 fore/3 aft weapon slots, far more consoles, more Boffs slots and is actually not that bad - comparable to the Dyson Ship in most areas.

    Difference between the Retro and Norm is a different saucer, a lieutenant sci instead of ensign sci, and one console slot. As the Norm is 15,000 Dil (or free if you choose it as you level a Fed) so 114 Zen at current rates, and the Retro is 750 Zen, it doesn't take a genius to work out the Retro is a waste of time, and certainly not on the Fleet versions level.


    Just one example, and it isn't alone.

    THe thing you call Retrofit is actually only a Refit. I never liked the idea of the Refit (Basically Tier X+0.5 ships). THe theoretical value of the Nova Refit might be that you get a universal console and an additional ship skin, but I am not convinced the Rhode Island skin is different enough from the Nova skin to justify any cost.

    The actual Retrofits of ship have always been Tier 5 ships, and the Fleet versions are basically Tier 5.5.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    THe thing you call Retrofit is actually only a Refit. I never liked the idea of the Refit (Basically Tier X+0.5 ships). THe theoretical value of the Nova Refit might be that you get a universal console and an additional ship skin, but I am not convinced the Rhode Island skin is different enough from the Nova skin to justify any cost.

    The actual Retrofits of ship have always been Tier 5 ships, and the Fleet versions are basically Tier 5.5.

    My mistake. Still, there is both a refit and a retrofit version...
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,487 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The announcement of the Galaxy "Reboot bundle" has brought with it sour grapes for some and the perverse squealing of others. The content in that announcement, according to Al Rivera's characterization of game content design activities (discussed here), is a result of metrics.

    What those metrics say is that "players love FLEET ships." The catch is that fleet-ships were around before fleet-ships were fleet-ships, e.g. the Odyssey is the same today in all variations as it was when it was introduced - in fact its +10% +1 console status is the basis of the same template on fleet-store ships today. This means that the reality is that players don't love fleet ships - they love the Odyssey being more powerful than other ships, i.g. they love "PEW PEW."

    The question I propose is why does the player base need single-character-single-use fleet store ships if Cryptic has been selling zen-store ships that are just as powerful since well before hand?

    And since we can clearly obtain fleet-tier ships from the zen-store as account-unlocks, why are they going down the path of shortest-term-fiscal gains instead of long-term-customer-satisfaction?

    Why does one of my fed chars fly the Odyssey while another one got the Fleet Ambassador later on and a third rather recent character is totally fine with a free RA T5 Prometheus? Madness I say, Madness!
Sign In or Register to comment.