And now you see why people dont pvp or voice opinions on the pvp forums. How dare you disagree with the creators of tyler durden. Last i checked tyler durden teamspeak was the Sad Pandas teamspeak. I wish all fleets had the ability to have there teamspeak server advertised on sto front page great recruitment tool. This is why most dont bother pvping anymore not because of cryptics lack of attention to pvp but the pvp "Community" elitist mentality of do as i say or be trolled off the forums. Only a few even bother to post in the forums most are from the same fleets or clicks. Anyone who disagrees gets jumped on by all there buddies and trolled with no moderation for what they say or do.
I am surprised that cryptic would allow a player to do a guest blog that A was nothing more then an advertisement for a fleets teamspeak that constantly bashes cryptic and other players for disagreeing with them not a smart move. And B allowing a channel to be advertised were the creator is in this very forum thread bashing cryptic for incompetence and other players for disagreeing very risky IMO.
The real problem isnt broken TRIBBLE cryptic allows in the game its the players that spend hours and hours after every release and update trying to find a way to break the ability. Then use it for months until everyone finds out about it. Then the veteran pvper cries nerf. Very little in this game is easily exploitable there have been some obvious ones that were but most take work and effort to find and use. Most of the veterans are the only ones with enough knowledge to find them and use them so who is to blame i say both.
The problem with trying to bring people into pvp now is simple it is like trying to selling a house thats been trashed by the tenants for the last four years and bringing the buyer in to see it before you rehab it. Its the worst thing that can happen the buyer will walk in and say this house is trashed im out. Fix it first and the people will come you have a diamond in STO pvp and dont even know it. But the decisions and strategy are all wrong its not bring the players and pvp will get fixed it should be fix pvp and the players will come in masses believe me.
And now you see why people dont pvp or voice opinions on the pvp forums. How dare you disagree with the creators of tyler durden. Last i checked tyler durden teamspeak was the Sad Pandas teamspeak. I wish all fleets had the ability to have there teamspeak server advertised on sto front page great recruitment tool. This is why most dont bother pvping anymore not because of cryptics lack of attention to pvp but the pvp "Community" elitist mentality of do as i say or be trolled off the forums. Only a few even bother to post in the forums most are from the same fleets or clicks. Anyone who disagrees gets jumped on by all there buddies and trolled with no moderation for what they say or do.
I don't believe I have jumped on anyone. I have responded to some people that I felt had the wrong idea about TD... a channel I started because I love PvP in STO. I am not alone and many other people have pushed the concept to where it is now. Yes many of the Panda players have embraced the concept... but they are not alone and not the only people playing in TD matches. I think Naz did a great job explaining it in his blog. Still some people seem to think there is something else going on... or some agenda. The Panda fleet is one of the largest pure PvP fleets in the game... yes when a few of us started going on about the fun with the TD concept it wasn't long before a good portion of the fleet was taking part.
There isn't some agenda. Panda fleet isn't looking for anyone... last I checked we aren't looking for new members. We are however always looking for new friends. Yes talking to other players and enjoying some fun friendly games with people is a good way to do that.
The Team speak you are taking about... is maintained by Nixtux. it is his own personal server. As a member of Pandas he does provide the Panda team speak. He also provides server room for a couple of the games other PvP fleets. He is a Sad Panda... however I know him from Other fleets... and I think hes better known in game as a Member of an Evil Klingon Fleet. lol Nixtux has also been kind enough to provide Team Speak servers for a few of the games Tournaments... including a TD themed one that was held a few months ago. Please don't misconstrue his generosity as some evil plan hatched by his friends. Also anyone that wishes to provide an alternate Vocie Chat server for TD matches is welcome to do so... use the in game channel and promote your own chat space and get matches going if you wish... we would all be more then happy to see more good matches taking place.
There it is... if you have taken my response as an attack I apologize.
Anyone who disagrees gets jumped on with no moderation for what they say or do.
Usually selective lack of moderation can be demonstrated by fanboys towards any criticism directed at PWE, or Cryptic in OTHER threads.
The one place where this DOESN'T happen, is in the PVP forums. (At least as far as I can tell)
THERE you will get the TRUTH by some of the most knowledgeable players in the game.
If they criticize the game, a mechanic, or an ability, you can bet that there is a good reason for it.
Because they understand game mechanics better than most.
They've been the vanguards against broken abilities and have called attention to more hacks and exploits than I can think off.
This is why Cryptic listens to, participates with, and profiles their guest blogs.
Anyone who is overly critical of the PVP community would be best served to read some of their threads over at the PVP section.
They have done more to help the average player improve their game, than any group I can think of.
Just take a gander at the build help threads alone and ask yourself why someone would spend all the time and effort sharing their knowledge.
I don't believe I have jumped on anyone. I have responded to some people that had felt had the wrong idea about TD... a channel I started because I love PvP in STO. I am not alone and many other people have pushed the concept to where it is now. Yes many of the Panda players have embraced the concept... but they are not alone and not the only people playing in TD matches. I think Naz did a great job explaining it in his blog. Still some people seem to think there is something else going on... or some agenda. The Panda fleet is one of the largest pure PvP fleets in the game... yes when a few of us started going on about the fun with the TD concept it wasn't long before a good portion of the fleet was taking part.
There isn't some agenda. Panda fleet isn't looking for anyone... last I checked we aren't looking for new members. We are however always looking for new friends. Yes talking to other players and enjoying some fun friendly games with people is a good way to do that.
The Team speak you are taking about... is maintained by Nixtux. it is his own personal server. As a member of Pandas he does provide the Panda team speak. He also provides server room for a couple of the games other PvP fleets. He is a Sad Panda... however I know him from Other fleets... and I think hes better known in game as a Member of an Evil Klingon Fleet. lol Nixtux has also been kind enough to provide Team Speak servers for a few of the games Tournaments... including a TD themed one that was held a few months ago. Please don't misconstrue his generosity as some evil plan hatched by his friends. Also anyone that wishes to provide an alternate Vocie Chat server for TD matches is welcome to do so... use the in game channel and promote your own chat space and get matches going if you wish... we would all be more then happy to see more good matches taking place.
There it is... if you have taken my response as an attack I apologize.
So it is sad pandas teamspeak nixtux is a sad panda and the teamspeak is used as the sad pandas team speak. Im sure that people who have dealt with the pandas arrogance and exploits in the past and present are just dying to come join your teamspeak. But you will attract some noobs that you can brainwash and convince that the broken TRIBBLE you guys use is ok but the broken TRIBBLE you dont like is garbage and you are a piece of trash if you use it. Like i said all the exploits in pvp were found by the "Top Fleets" that all hang out in TD so dont act all innocent.
We all know why pandas dont premade in the q its simple. Not so long ago a said fleet you figure it out had a little issue with a member posting an exploit on the forums witch called into question the the fleets integrity at witch time no fleets would even play against them. So they were forced into exile creating multiple fleets and multiple accounts to continue to use there exploits under false names. just look at all the fleets he is in lol it wasnt a premade it was 2 of this fleet 1 of this fleet no premade here lol dont be fooled they still troll the q.
Make sure to inform people of what is allowed in TD matches so they know what consoles they are allowed to use.
It must be very difficult for naz to write a blog about pvp knowing how horribly broken it is and how horrible it is treated by the developer. I was first introduced to naz when he created the troll fleet 'mirror cheese' and was trolling/rolling the q's one night to show off broken mechanics. While naz personally apologized to me and I hold nothing against him or any panda, I wonder what faith they still have now that pvp is even MORE broken from his last attempt to show things that were horribly wrong.
Another guest blog where a small minority of masochists enjoy the unbalanced, broken, and relatively unchanged (for 4 years) aspect of STO and think other people should try enjoying masochism too.
And then the people who complain about pvp being unbalanced and broken on these discussion threads get reassured by the masochists that the guest blogs are there to encourage people to pvp so maybe it'll get changed if there's interest -- which these guest blogs do!
Except we're several pvp guest blogs into this and pvp still has been relatively unchanged. Outside of small craft pvp (lol) and the first aspect of people from mixed teams joining each other -- it's still a broken facet of STO.
So no, the 'good intentions' of these pvp blogs are not worth the energy typing these up. Why do we have so many pvp blogs anyway? What more is there to discuss? What could possibly have changed between this one and the other ones to warrant more information being given out?
It's clear these blogs are not drumming up enough support for pvp, so how about we just stop doing them and start releasing information that players actually care about.
Namely PvE content and everything else Cryptic is working on.
Thing is, when all is said and done, TD is not the answer.....it's first aid.
The patient still needs proper treatment.
I agree with everything you have said.
We all go back and forth on PvP in this game. Someone earlier was saying its funny to see some of us boosting it in one thread and tearing it apart in another. It is true to a point. I have many issues with the current state of PvP... but I try my best to remain hopeful. Perhaps as Trek people we are more willing to hold out hope then some people would have been at this point.
I do have a feeling though that there are a handful of Cryptic people that would really very much like to expand on PvP and do the big "PvP Update" We have all been hoping for for 4 years. I think what we need to be giving them is Ammo.
We have been doing that lately... Mancom has created a player run leaderboard.... a bunch of us have been promoting the TD game channel. We have also been holding "No BS tournaments" every few months... and even held a Tyler Durden Style No BS tournament most recently.
Perhaps we are hoping against hope... I would like to think though that all that player pushed effort has to be helping the Cryptic guys convince there bosses... that a PVP over haul would foster enough good will with players to be a long term profitable venture.
I know from your posts you see that possibility... I have been pushing any chance I can in the PvP forums for a Tyler Durden Style overhaul of the Que system that would have us matched not on gear scroe... but on true Players Stats... Mancom has shown that the concept works. We use his tool to create great balanced matches in TD all the time... the more data his tools have the more balanced the matches are. If Cryptic was tracking all PvP data to achieve this end I have no doubt the ques would be 100x better.
Anyway thanks for the civil conversation... Forum PvP is some of the last good Cryptic provided PvP we have access to. lol
So it is sad pandas teamspeak nixtux is a sad panda and the teamspeak is used as the sad pandas team speak. Im sure that people who have dealt with the pandas arrogance and exploits in the past and present are just dying to come join your teamspeak. But you will attract some noobs that you can brainwash and convince that the broken TRIBBLE you guys use is ok but the broken TRIBBLE you dont like is garbage and you are a piece of trash if you use it. Like i said all the exploits in pvp were found by the "Top Fleets" that all hang out in TD so dont act all innocent.
We all know why pandas dont premade in the q its simple. Not so long ago a said fleet you figure it out had a little issue with a member posting an exploit on the forums witch called into question the the fleets integrity at witch time no fleets would even play against them. So they were forced into exile creating multiple fleets and multiple accounts to continue to use there exploits under false names. just look at all the fleets he is in lol it wasnt a premade it was 2 of this fleet 1 of this fleet no premade here lol dont be fooled they still troll the q.
Make sure to inform people of what is allowed in TD matches so they know what consoles they are allowed to use.
I'm not sure where all the hate is coming from my friend. Let go... anger fear hatred, this is the quick and easy path, that leads to the dark side man.
Exploits exist in the game because Cryptic fails at correcting them. Yes I agree some people in the game have using questionable mechanics. You can point at "top fleets" if it makes you feel better.
As for pandas in the ques you WILL see all of us out in the ques. We just stopped quing as full on premades as often... its not that we have a hard time finding challange matches if we wish to. We do TD matches more often because they are more fun.
I already explained the TS server is the a PERSONAL COMPUTER/Server owned by Nixtux... who is a member of at least 4 or 5 PvP fleets... one of which is Sad Pandas. Yes he also provides server space for us on that server... as well as server space for Evil Gramps, Disorderly Conduct, X fleet, Show me your Critz... and I am likely forgeting one or two others he hosts.
As for what is not allowed in TD matches... as I said there are no written rules... people that are hosting matches though are free to ask for any restrictions they wish. If people don't agree they don't have to play in that match. The only things I can think of that people have asked to not be included in games I have played in have been things that have also in general been excluded from Tournaments. In most matches I have played in there has been no need to create rules as everyone shows up to have fun and in general leaves broken toys in the bank.
In the end join us or don't... or act Mad and throw the hate... thankfully we don't have to really try to convince people that you are bitter. You do a good job of making that clear on your own.
Today we will be discussing the newest super-fun event, *inserteventhere*!
Step One: Talk to Q at ESD/Qo'nos/New Romulus Command.
Step Two: Run around pressing 'F' repeatedly for about ten minutes. Do this for fifteen/twenty-five days.
Step Three: Collect Rewards.
--
There you go.
Anyways, thanks for putting the time in Naz. TD matches are wonderful. Here's hoping your guest blog will convince even a few new people to give the format a try. Those who've never partaken will likely be pleasantly surprised. This game has a deep and interesting PvP skeleton, it just needs some TLC to shine. Surely that would benefit everybody through increased revenue and thus more resources for Cryptic to develop the game in its entirety.
Today we will be discussing the newest super-fun event, *inserteventhere*!
Step One: Talk to Q at ESD/Qo'nos/New Romulus Command.
Step Two: Run around pressing 'F' repeatedly for about ten minutes. Do this for fifteen/twenty-five days.
Step Three: Collect Rewards.
--
There you go.
Anyways, thanks for putting the time in Naz. TD matches are wonderful. Here's hoping your guest blog will convince even a few new people to give the format a try. Those who've never partaken will likely be pleasantly surprised. This game has a deep and interesting PvP skeleton, it just needs some TLC to shine. Surely that would benefit everybody through increased revenue and thus more resources for Cryptic to develop the game in its entirety.
PvE content generates the majority of income for Cryptic and the majority of players for the game itself.
PvP content does not.
Your false equivelancy is cute, but still a fallacy.
It's clear these blogs are not drumming up enough support for pvp, so how about we just stop doing them and start releasing information that players actually care about.
Namely PvE content and everything else Cryptic is working on.
In Short: lolpvp
Well you make a good point. I think the main reason we don't see guest blogs on PvE... is well because what is there to write about.
Here I'll do one up now.
How to complete any E.STF content in under 3 min.
Get a Cruiser with a Lt. Cmd tac... or an Escort with Lt. Cmd Engi.
Load 3 tech doffs... load Dem 2 or 3 + Faw 3. Install 7-8 beams.
Enter STF
Set throttle to 1/4 - Activate buffs - press space bar - Have a sandwich - Return in 3 min - collect loot.
And those of us who've tried it are already sure. :rolleyes:
PvP is a completely different experience when you have people around you that can help support you, and that's what TD offers.
Most new PvP'ers just join the queue and hope for the best, but many times their hopes turn to nightmares as they come up against an organized pre-made team that obliterates them.
Let's say you're getting targeted so you have to use RSP, but then someone on the other team subnukes you so your RSP and all your resists and all your buffs are completely removed. Usually, this is when you die, but not in TD (ok, well, not always ). If you're on teamspeak then you can let your team know you've been nuked and you will almost always immediately be sent Science Team to clear the nuke, and your team will help support with heals and resists. Hell, I've had teammates clear my subnuke before I even knew I was nuked! This rarely (if ever) happens when you just join the queue.
Teamwork is what makes PvP in STO really fun, and that is just one example. There are many facets to team oriented PvP that you just don't get to experience when you queue up solo, or even if you're with a friend or two. It takes that great starship combat that Cryptic has developed to the next level, and is truly where Star Trek Online shines.
PvE content generates the majority of income for Cryptic and the majority of players for the game itself.
PvP content does not.
Your false equivelancy is cute, but still a fallacy.
What you and a few at cryptic don't really realize is PvPers in fact account for a LARGE amount of the $ coming into STO.
I know you say no that is untrue... and Geko agrees with you he says stupid things like PvP Accounts for >1% of game activity. Ect ect
Thing is they have set it up to FORCE those of us that would ONLY PvP if given the choice. To do a ton of PvE in this game. Because it is the only way to earn gear ect.
If you look at my account usage in STO.. I am likely in PvE 95% of the time... because I have reps to grind man. If you look at my account usage in any other game I play its 95% of my time spent in PvP. The rub which is the point Cryptic is missing completely... I spend likely 5x more in those other games. lol I know I am not alone I have spoken to enough like minded people to understand we are all in the same boat... logging in to STO to get our grinds out of the way... so that for a few hours a week we can get together and Pew Pew in our Trek ships.
Well you make a good point. I think the main reason we don't see guest blogs on PvE... is well because what is there to write about.
Here I'll do one up now.
How to complete any E.STF content in under 3 min.
Get a Cruiser with a Lt. Cmd tac... or an Escort with Lt. Cmd Engi.
Load 3 tech doffs... load Dem 2 or 3 + Faw 3. Install 7-8 beams.
Enter STF
Set throttle to 1/4 - Activate buffs - press space bar - Have a sandwich - Return in 3 min - collect loot.
Yeah if all you see are numbers and builds. There's something to be said about seeing the forest for the trees.
STO is an easy game. A casual game. I won't argue Elite STFs aren't easy as pie, but PvE content has been coming on a regular basis, and it's been a matter of record that story content and other PvE content is what brings home the bacon.
I don't play STO because I want to throw the most overpowered and broken build into it and stroke my e-peen to the yellow numbers that pop up. The majority of other players don't either.
But we do like seeing things like new artwork, where the story is going, things like the war between the KDF and Federation ending, the Voth Zone (which isn't released yet), new ships, etc.
To have a guest blog on pvp is little more than Cryptic saying, "We got nothin', stay tuned."
What you and a few at cryptic don't really realize is PvPers in fact account for a LARGE amount of the $ coming into STO.
I know you say no that is untrue... and Geko agrees with you he says stupid things like PvP Accounts for >1% of game activity. Ect ect
Thing is they have set it up to FORCE those of us that would ONLY PvP if given the choice. To do a ton of PvE in this game. Because it is the only way to earn gear ect.
If you look at my account usage in STO.. I am likely in PvE 95% of the time... because I have reps to grind man. If you look at my account usage in any other game I play its 95% of my time spent in PvP. The rub which is the point Cryptic is missing completely... I spend likely 5x more in those other games. lol I know I am not alone I have spoken to enough like minded people to understand we are all in the same boat... logging in to STO to get our grinds out of the way... so that for a few hours a week we can get together and Pew Pew in our Trek ships.
I'll trust what the people with access to the data say over what some random person in the game says.
If they can straight up say, "We could get rid of pvp content entirely and the game would not be signifigantly affected.", after all their gaffes in the past? That tells me that not only are they serious, but they're so confidant in that assertation that they don't care if people quit STO over it. And that they're willing to double-down on it, when Cryptic has been very hesitant about doubling-down on statements made before.
It also tells me that the margin of PvPers in STO are just that small, that they can afford to say something as cold as that without fear of massive backlash.
I can guarantee you I wouldn't bat an eyelash if pvp disappeared tomorrow. This isn't a "silent majority" I'm talking about. This is the extremely vocal majority on various web blogs, the forums, the game itself, in the media, etc. who spell it out for you that people care more about PvE than PvP.
To have a guest blog on pvp is little more than Cryptic saying, "We got nothin', stay tuned."
To you. To those of us that PvP it's a nice acknowledgment. As far as income-generation, we may not represent the largest slice of the income pie but as a group we spend far more than most in proportion to our numbers. We're the people buying nearly every ship for consoles and opening boxes for Lobi. Some pay, some grind, either way putting more into the game which benefits PvE and PvP. It only makes sense to try to improve upon the smaller facet (PvP), given that the larger one (PvE) seems to generate enough income and activity already.
To you. To those of us that PvP it's a nice acknowledgment. As far as income-generation, we may not represent the largest slice of the income pie but as a group we spend far more than most in proportion to our numbers. We're the people buying nearly every ship for consoles and opening boxes for Lobi. Some pay, some grind, either way putting more into the game which benefits PvE and PvP. It only makes sense to try to improve upon the smaller facet (PvP), given that the larger one (PvE) seems to generate enough income and activity already.
Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. Except for the part where "trying" to generate support for pvp will result in attention paid to the pvp aspect of the game.
My point is that no matter how many pvp guest blogs we have, nothing has signifigantly changed in PvP, whereas with PvE multiple things change all the time -- and since that's where development is, I think I'd rather see blogs on that instead.
Yeah if all you see are numbers and builds. There's something to be said about seeing the forest for the trees.
STO is an easy game. A casual game. I won't argue Elite STFs aren't easy as pie, but PvE content has been coming on a regular basis, and it's been a matter of record that story content and other PvE content is what brings home the bacon.
I don't play STO because I want to throw the most overpowered and broken build into it and stroke my e-peen to the yellow numbers that pop up. The majority of other players don't either.
But we do like seeing things like new artwork, where the story is going, things like the war between the KDF and Federation ending, the Voth Zone (which isn't released yet), new ships, etc.
To have a guest blog on pvp is little more than Cryptic saying, "We got nothin', stay tuned."
So you are claiming to enjoy unchanged STFs after what 2-3 years ?
OR doing the same Tuvok mission 5 times per toon ? (I liked it the first time... badly written mostly I thought... but its trek staring a great actor I liked it once)
So if that sums you up ... someone who enjoys the same boring content over and over and over and over... cool man have fun.
My point is... most people are doing those things over and over and over and over. To earn gear. People don't earn themselves MK XII borg gear to go and try for 2:59 times in there infected run... the same run they just did 50 times to earn that borg gear.
They do it to earn that gear and use it against other players. At least a good many of them do. So I am saying Cryptics thinking is flawed. Yes very few people by % are in a PvP right now compared to the amount of people in the Fleet Defenses or the STF runs. However a good number of them are ONLY in those PvE ques to feed there PvP ambitions.
IF they did remove PvP it isn't that it would cause a small backlash that would be bad... its that 40-60% of the games players would just leave. I am pulling those numbers out of my wazzzzo no doubt. I really honestly believe that is much closer to the truth then Cryptic would state publicly. Privately I think they know that. Just look at the stuff in all the lockboxes ships and consoles and traits all of it... 90% of it is very much useless in PvE yet is super powerful in PvP. Trust me they know exactly who is padding there bank accounts. lol
So you are claiming to enjoy unchanged STFs after what 2-3 years ?
I played the original STFs, I played them each time they were revamped, and I played Hive both on space and ground. Do I enjoy them? They're a nice time-waster and the dilithium is nice. But to say STFs haven't changed in 2-3 years is a bald-faced lie. I do believe Gozer was shoved out the door because of those changes -- in fact before he left he was working on pvp content for the game.
... so where is that work at? As far as I'm concerned he was playing Minesweeper and talking on the forums about all the changes to pvp that weren't going to come so he could keep collecting a paycheck.
OR doing the same Tuvok mission 5 times per toon ? (I liked it the first time... badly written mostly I thought... but its trek staring a great actor I liked it once)
Farming isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to keep you in the game. What rewards does PvP offer that is comparable to farming high-quality gear? I do the pvp dailies when I want the extra dilithium and fleet marks, but that's just another form of farming.
So if that sums you up ... someone who enjoys the same boring content over and over and over and over... cool man have fun.
Except I didn't say that, but okay. It still doesn't contradict the fact the majority of Cryptic's money is made on PvE content. If you want to tell every person who participates in PvE content the same thing you told me, I'm sure they'll take you extremely seriously in between grinding their rep projects and fleet projects.
My point is... most people are doing those things over and over and over and over. To earn gear. People don't earn themselves MK XII borg gear to go and try for 2:59 times in there infected run... the same run they just did 50 times to earn that borg gear.
They do it to earn that gear and use it against other players. At least a good many of them do. So I am saying Cryptics thinking is flawed. Yes very few people by % are in a PvP right now compared to the amount of people in the Fleet Defenses or the STF runs. However a good number of them are ONLY in those PvE ques to feed there PvP ambitions.
People use Mk XII whatever in whatever content they're doing. I see people in Solanae Dyson EVA suits doing Mine Trap and people shooting Borg on the ground with their Mk XII Dyson Rifles. People use whatever is new because they're dumb and think new = better.
IF they did remove PvP it isn't that it would cause a small backlash that would be bad... its that 40-60% of the games players would just leave. I am pulling those numbers out of my wazzzzo no doubt.
Yes, yes you are.
I really honestly believe that is much closer to the truth then Cryptic would state publicly. Privately I think they know that. Just look at the stuff in all the lockboxes ships and consoles and traits all of it... 90% of it is very much useless in PvE yet is super powerful in PvP. Trust me they know exactly who is padding there bank accounts. lol
It's not about what you believe, it's about what is fact and what is fiction.
You are mistaking intentionally-overpowered lockbox swag for PvPers for ignorance and apathy to PvP gameplay in terms of design to begin with.
STO is an easy game. A casual game. I won't argue Elite STFs aren't easy as pie, but PvE content has been coming on a regular basis, and it's been a matter of record that story content and other PvE content is what brings home the bacon.
You're also missing what some heads at Cryptic have long been unable to comprehend.
Do you know how much time, and cost go into that PvE content that gets consumed in a blitz never to repeated again?
Or the herculean effort that went into the Dyson Sphere?
None of that "brings home the bacon" - it exists as a giant distraction to hold your attention long enough to sell you a new ship and more keys (which is what actually brings home the bacon).
How much does it take to have "pvp content"? Comparatively much less.
Like a few maps and some balance passes., maybe a few extra modes and a matchmaking system.
PvPers are the bleeding edge.
Gear? They grind it, they buy it, they shoot each other as content for free - no artist needs to spend time making dinosaurs.
That's right, they make their own content.
Some at Cryptic get it, I'm sure PWE gets it - they have PvP in the majority of their games.
PvP = player driven content, low cost to develop and maintain, generates revenue and could be perfectly sustainable.
You're also missing what some heads at Cryptic have long been unable to comprehend.
Do you know how much time, and cost go into that PvE content that gets consumed in a blitz never to repeated again?
Or the herculean effort that went into the Dyson Sphere?
....
None of that "brings home the bacon" - it exists as a giant distraction to hold your attention long enough to sell you a new ship and more keys (which is what actually brings home the bacon.
So if PvP content costs so little, but is used by so many players who spend zen and dilithium and blah blah blah getting the best gear for their overpowered and abusive build... then why are we seeing guest blogs from pvpers and not from Cryptic themselves?
Why are we getting dev blogs on PvE content on a consistent basis, but very little on PvP?
If the majority of lockbox money is spent by PvP players, then why does Cryptic not introduce new maps or new playstyles or new gameplay types -- I won't even mention the herculean task of actually making pvp balanced and enjoyable.
If this "silent majority" of PvP players who spend money to have "I Win" buttons for PvP, then why does Cryptic not acknowledge them more? Why do the dev blogs for the lockboxes not mention how overpowered they are for PvP if they want to advertise to the PvP players who supposedly make up a large portion of lockbox participants?
Either because Cryptic really wants to disavow the game's pvp aspect as much as possible because they hate it.
Or because those players aren't as numerous as people seem to believe they are in comparison to those who spend money to improve the quality of their PvE experiences.
So if PvP content costs so little, but is used by so many players who spend zen and dilithium and blah blah blah getting the best gear for their overpowered and abusive build... then why are we seeing guest blogs from pvpers and not from Cryptic themselves?
Why are we getting dev blogs on PvE content on a consistent basis, but very little on PvP?
Linked to the above.
They write blogs for the "content" that is basically a vehicle to market new ships or sell you another SB cosmetic project that costs $15. It's not rocket science man.
If the majority of lockbox money is spent by PvP players, then why does Cryptic not introduce new maps or new playstyles -- I won't even mention the herculean task of actually making pvp balanced and enjoyable.
If this "silent majority" of PvP players who spend money to have "I Win" buttons for PvP, then why does Cryptic not acknowledge them more? Why do the dev blogs for the lockboxes not mention how overpowered they are for PvP if they want to advertise to the PvP players who supposedly make up a large portion of lockbox participants?
More? Who knows how much who is spending.
You're asking questions that Antonio already answered, which means you lack at least the common courtesy to read the posts that are responding to you.
Every PvPer in this game is forced to be a PvEr.
How do the devs know what PvPers are or are not spending zen on, or why they are spending it?
For all of the time PvPers spend grinding PvE - it's got nothing to do with PvE being fun, or engaging or what they want to do.
It's just the artificial barrier to get the gear they need & want for PvP.
We're not saying PvPers are some huge group, PvP has been systematically neglected and trashed by power creep - Antonio's point is that PvP often houses the biggest whales in games.
You're asking questions that Antonio already answered, which means you lack at least the common courtesy to read the posts that are responding to you.
Every PvPer in this game is forced to be a PvEr.
How do the devs know what PvPers are or are not spending zen on, or why they are spending it?
Cryptic knows how much who is spending. Cryptic keeps track of spending data. They have spreadsheets and pie charts. They're a for-profit business and it's a matter of record they keep track of every cent spent in the game, where it is spent, when it is spent, and most importantly what the players do once they spend it.
Just because we don't see the data does not mean that the data is not there. This is the data they use in order to market further features in STO.
PvPers are forced into being PvEers in the same way Foundry authors are forced into being PvEers. PvE is the core of the game, and PvP is just one off-shoot of that core. A minority of players, along with roleplayers, User-generated content enthusiasts, professional trolls, fleet-oriented politics, and so on and so forth.
There are many sub-cultures to STO who are all linked to the PvE experience in one way or another. That doesn't make PvPers 'forced' into participating in PvE any more than logging into the game makes me 'forced' to use the login screen to play.
For all of the time PvPers spend grinding PvE - it's got nothing to do with PvE being fun, or engaging or what they want to do.
It's just the artificial barrier to get the gear they need & want for PvP.
We're not saying PvPers are some huge group, PvP has been systematically neglected and trashed by power creep - Antonio's point is that PvP often houses the biggest whales in games.
The biggest whales still get taken apart by pods of orcas. It doesn't matter how big the whales are, they're individual whales in a massive ecosystem much bigger than they are -- with a population much more numerous than they are.
Financially speaking, I do not doubt PvPers spend a lot of money on the game. But I do doubt that the small minority of PvPers who do spend money on the game is somehow signifigant to the rest of the demographics, which again is a matter of record -- not conjecture, that shows PvP ultimately does not matter to most people.
We're not saying PvPers are some huge group, PvP has been systematically neglected and trashed by power creep - Antonio's point is that PvP often houses the biggest whales in games.
Oh it hurts but its true. So many of the "hardcore" pvp types are massive huge endangered whales. lol
I have made many great PvP friends and a good handful of PvE freinds as well. I have to play both ends of the game to really enjoy it and I don't hate trek as boring as I find my 1000th STF at times I don't hate seeing trek ships and playing with trek people even if they are not PvPers.
Having made a few friends though I have dipped into more then one PvE fleet to grab access to which ever tier of fleet ship I was looking for at the time. (the PvP fleets have all caught up now so I don't swap in anymore)...
The couple of PvE fleets I jumped into though where large fleets where everyone on the leader board was pretty well spread out.. a couple guys a bit higher then the rest... but a nice even everyone pitching in spread.
Everyone reading that that is in a PvP fleet is laughing like crazy right now. Becasue NO PvP fleet works that way. Every PvP fleet I have been in or joined to drop marks in or what ever... have always had 1-2 guys with 10x more credit on the leaderboard then anyone else. Its not because there the fleet leaders either. We all know who they are they are either the super grinders or the whales... and if we are being honest we all love our whale friends, but they are Cryptics whales. Its the way the game is setup you can either grind till you want to pull your eyes out... or you can drop $. There is a small handful of PvP players that drop $ like they are rich... well in some cases they may well be. Nothing wrong with that... just saying Cryptic should for sure do more to keep those types of players happy.
I can list 3 or 4 "whale" players that have left just in the last year. I know one has already thrown over 5k at Chris Roberts. He would happily have thrown it at Cryptic had he not been sick of waiting for them to address his favored game type.
Comments
I am surprised that cryptic would allow a player to do a guest blog that A was nothing more then an advertisement for a fleets teamspeak that constantly bashes cryptic and other players for disagreeing with them not a smart move. And B allowing a channel to be advertised were the creator is in this very forum thread bashing cryptic for incompetence and other players for disagreeing very risky IMO.
The real problem isnt broken TRIBBLE cryptic allows in the game its the players that spend hours and hours after every release and update trying to find a way to break the ability. Then use it for months until everyone finds out about it. Then the veteran pvper cries nerf. Very little in this game is easily exploitable there have been some obvious ones that were but most take work and effort to find and use. Most of the veterans are the only ones with enough knowledge to find them and use them so who is to blame i say both.
The problem with trying to bring people into pvp now is simple it is like trying to selling a house thats been trashed by the tenants for the last four years and bringing the buyer in to see it before you rehab it. Its the worst thing that can happen the buyer will walk in and say this house is trashed im out. Fix it first and the people will come you have a diamond in STO pvp and dont even know it. But the decisions and strategy are all wrong its not bring the players and pvp will get fixed it should be fix pvp and the players will come in masses believe me.
I don't believe I have jumped on anyone. I have responded to some people that I felt had the wrong idea about TD... a channel I started because I love PvP in STO. I am not alone and many other people have pushed the concept to where it is now. Yes many of the Panda players have embraced the concept... but they are not alone and not the only people playing in TD matches. I think Naz did a great job explaining it in his blog. Still some people seem to think there is something else going on... or some agenda. The Panda fleet is one of the largest pure PvP fleets in the game... yes when a few of us started going on about the fun with the TD concept it wasn't long before a good portion of the fleet was taking part.
There isn't some agenda. Panda fleet isn't looking for anyone... last I checked we aren't looking for new members. We are however always looking for new friends.
The Team speak you are taking about... is maintained by Nixtux. it is his own personal server. As a member of Pandas he does provide the Panda team speak. He also provides server room for a couple of the games other PvP fleets. He is a Sad Panda... however I know him from Other fleets... and I think hes better known in game as a Member of an Evil Klingon Fleet. lol Nixtux has also been kind enough to provide Team Speak servers for a few of the games Tournaments... including a TD themed one that was held a few months ago. Please don't misconstrue his generosity as some evil plan hatched by his friends. Also anyone that wishes to provide an alternate Vocie Chat server for TD matches is welcome to do so... use the in game channel and promote your own chat space and get matches going if you wish... we would all be more then happy to see more good matches taking place.
There it is... if you have taken my response as an attack I apologize.
You haven't.
You responded fairly and reasonably to pretty much all the criticisms.
And then there's "your (sic) all far too comfortable" etc, who may well have had to wipe the screen down when he'd finished.
I think that it's fair to say that the majority of us who have appeared sceptical of TD in this thread actually do want a thriving PvP culture in STO.
It's not even as if we think that TD wouldn't be an integral and important part of that culture.
But there are, in my view, two issues.
Firstly, a player led initiative is all well and good but it's going to be a limited approach.
You're restricted in what the game will let you do.
So, the creativity that i truly believe is latent among the players in this regard is muted.
Thus, while TD remains a merely player led organisation, it doesn't actually move PvP as a system on.
Essentially, it's a jury rig.
A good and well intentioned jury rig, to be sure, but a jury rig all the same.
Secondly, pretty much follows on from firstly.
If a player led initiative isn;t enough, then what is?
Input, solid input from cryptic.
A ranking system, at the very least, and ideally a match making system connected to it.
It should not be beyond the wit of man to find a way to allow foundry authors to create PvP maps.
And if that can be done, those same authors will find ways to tweak the modes.
An explosion of options is what I'd predict, if cryptic would take the trouble to just allow it.
Thing is, when all is said and done, TD is not the answer.....it's first aid.
The patient still needs proper treatment.
Usually selective lack of moderation can be demonstrated by fanboys towards any criticism directed at PWE, or Cryptic in OTHER threads.
The one place where this DOESN'T happen, is in the PVP forums. (At least as far as I can tell)
THERE you will get the TRUTH by some of the most knowledgeable players in the game.
If they criticize the game, a mechanic, or an ability, you can bet that there is a good reason for it.
Because they understand game mechanics better than most.
They've been the vanguards against broken abilities and have called attention to more hacks and exploits than I can think off.
This is why Cryptic listens to, participates with, and profiles their guest blogs.
Anyone who is overly critical of the PVP community would be best served to read some of their threads over at the PVP section.
They have done more to help the average player improve their game, than any group I can think of.
Just take a gander at the build help threads alone and ask yourself why someone would spend all the time and effort sharing their knowledge.
So it is sad pandas teamspeak nixtux is a sad panda and the teamspeak is used as the sad pandas team speak. Im sure that people who have dealt with the pandas arrogance and exploits in the past and present are just dying to come join your teamspeak. But you will attract some noobs that you can brainwash and convince that the broken TRIBBLE you guys use is ok but the broken TRIBBLE you dont like is garbage and you are a piece of trash if you use it. Like i said all the exploits in pvp were found by the "Top Fleets" that all hang out in TD so dont act all innocent.
We all know why pandas dont premade in the q its simple. Not so long ago a said fleet you figure it out had a little issue with a member posting an exploit on the forums witch called into question the the fleets integrity at witch time no fleets would even play against them. So they were forced into exile creating multiple fleets and multiple accounts to continue to use there exploits under false names. just look at all the fleets he is in lol it wasnt a premade it was 2 of this fleet 1 of this fleet no premade here lol dont be fooled they still troll the q.
Make sure to inform people of what is allowed in TD matches so they know what consoles they are allowed to use.
I rather do another Rep grind than go into a PVP area.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/3035013
And then the people who complain about pvp being unbalanced and broken on these discussion threads get reassured by the masochists that the guest blogs are there to encourage people to pvp so maybe it'll get changed if there's interest -- which these guest blogs do!
Except we're several pvp guest blogs into this and pvp still has been relatively unchanged. Outside of small craft pvp (lol) and the first aspect of people from mixed teams joining each other -- it's still a broken facet of STO.
So no, the 'good intentions' of these pvp blogs are not worth the energy typing these up. Why do we have so many pvp blogs anyway? What more is there to discuss? What could possibly have changed between this one and the other ones to warrant more information being given out?
It's clear these blogs are not drumming up enough support for pvp, so how about we just stop doing them and start releasing information that players actually care about.
Namely PvE content and everything else Cryptic is working on.
In Short: lolpvp
I agree with everything you have said.
We all go back and forth on PvP in this game. Someone earlier was saying its funny to see some of us boosting it in one thread and tearing it apart in another. It is true to a point. I have many issues with the current state of PvP... but I try my best to remain hopeful. Perhaps as Trek people we are more willing to hold out hope then some people would have been at this point.
I do have a feeling though that there are a handful of Cryptic people that would really very much like to expand on PvP and do the big "PvP Update" We have all been hoping for for 4 years. I think what we need to be giving them is Ammo.
We have been doing that lately... Mancom has created a player run leaderboard.... a bunch of us have been promoting the TD game channel. We have also been holding "No BS tournaments" every few months... and even held a Tyler Durden Style No BS tournament most recently.
Perhaps we are hoping against hope... I would like to think though that all that player pushed effort has to be helping the Cryptic guys convince there bosses... that a PVP over haul would foster enough good will with players to be a long term profitable venture.
I know from your posts you see that possibility... I have been pushing any chance I can in the PvP forums for a Tyler Durden Style overhaul of the Que system that would have us matched not on gear scroe... but on true Players Stats... Mancom has shown that the concept works. We use his tool to create great balanced matches in TD all the time... the more data his tools have the more balanced the matches are. If Cryptic was tracking all PvP data to achieve this end I have no doubt the ques would be 100x better.
Anyway thanks for the civil conversation... Forum PvP is some of the last good Cryptic provided PvP we have access to.
I'm not sure where all the hate is coming from my friend. Let go... anger fear hatred, this is the quick and easy path, that leads to the dark side man.
Exploits exist in the game because Cryptic fails at correcting them. Yes I agree some people in the game have using questionable mechanics. You can point at "top fleets" if it makes you feel better.
As for pandas in the ques you WILL see all of us out in the ques. We just stopped quing as full on premades as often... its not that we have a hard time finding challange matches if we wish to.
I already explained the TS server is the a PERSONAL COMPUTER/Server owned by Nixtux... who is a member of at least 4 or 5 PvP fleets... one of which is Sad Pandas. Yes he also provides server space for us on that server... as well as server space for Evil Gramps, Disorderly Conduct, X fleet, Show me your Critz... and I am likely forgeting one or two others he hosts.
As for what is not allowed in TD matches... as I said there are no written rules... people that are hosting matches though are free to ask for any restrictions they wish. If people don't agree they don't have to play in that match. The only things I can think of that people have asked to not be included in games I have played in have been things that have also in general been excluded from Tournaments. In most matches I have played in there has been no need to create rules as everyone shows up to have fun and in general leaves broken toys in the bank.
In the end join us or don't... or act Mad and throw the hate... thankfully we don't have to really try to convince people that you are bitter. You do a good job of making that clear on your own.
Guest Blog by @blahhdrey
Today we will be discussing the newest STF available in the queue, *insertnamehere*.
Step One: Activate your engines.
Step Two: Press spacebar.
Step Three: Collect rewards.
--
Guest Blog by @blahhdrey
Today we will be discussing the newest super-fun event, *inserteventhere*!
Step One: Talk to Q at ESD/Qo'nos/New Romulus Command.
Step Two: Run around pressing 'F' repeatedly for about ten minutes. Do this for fifteen/twenty-five days.
Step Three: Collect Rewards.
--
There you go.
Anyways, thanks for putting the time in Naz. TD matches are wonderful. Here's hoping your guest blog will convince even a few new people to give the format a try. Those who've never partaken will likely be pleasantly surprised. This game has a deep and interesting PvP skeleton, it just needs some TLC to shine. Surely that would benefit everybody through increased revenue and thus more resources for Cryptic to develop the game in its entirety.
PvE content generates the majority of income for Cryptic and the majority of players for the game itself.
PvP content does not.
Your false equivelancy is cute, but still a fallacy.
Well you make a good point. I think the main reason we don't see guest blogs on PvE... is well because what is there to write about.
Here I'll do one up now.
How to complete any E.STF content in under 3 min.
Get a Cruiser with a Lt. Cmd tac... or an Escort with Lt. Cmd Engi.
Load 3 tech doffs... load Dem 2 or 3 + Faw 3. Install 7-8 beams.
Enter STF
Set throttle to 1/4 - Activate buffs - press space bar - Have a sandwich - Return in 3 min - collect loot.
PvP is a completely different experience when you have people around you that can help support you, and that's what TD offers.
Most new PvP'ers just join the queue and hope for the best, but many times their hopes turn to nightmares as they come up against an organized pre-made team that obliterates them.
Let's say you're getting targeted so you have to use RSP, but then someone on the other team subnukes you so your RSP and all your resists and all your buffs are completely removed. Usually, this is when you die, but not in TD (ok, well, not always
Teamwork is what makes PvP in STO really fun, and that is just one example. There are many facets to team oriented PvP that you just don't get to experience when you queue up solo, or even if you're with a friend or two. It takes that great starship combat that Cryptic has developed to the next level, and is truly where Star Trek Online shines.
@DevolvedOne
What you and a few at cryptic don't really realize is PvPers in fact account for a LARGE amount of the $ coming into STO.
I know you say no that is untrue... and Geko agrees with you he says stupid things like PvP Accounts for >1% of game activity. Ect ect
Thing is they have set it up to FORCE those of us that would ONLY PvP if given the choice. To do a ton of PvE in this game. Because it is the only way to earn gear ect.
If you look at my account usage in STO.. I am likely in PvE 95% of the time... because I have reps to grind man. If you look at my account usage in any other game I play its 95% of my time spent in PvP. The rub which is the point Cryptic is missing completely... I spend likely 5x more in those other games. lol I know I am not alone I have spoken to enough like minded people to understand we are all in the same boat... logging in to STO to get our grinds out of the way... so that for a few hours a week we can get together and Pew Pew in our Trek ships.
Yeah if all you see are numbers and builds. There's something to be said about seeing the forest for the trees.
STO is an easy game. A casual game. I won't argue Elite STFs aren't easy as pie, but PvE content has been coming on a regular basis, and it's been a matter of record that story content and other PvE content is what brings home the bacon.
I don't play STO because I want to throw the most overpowered and broken build into it and stroke my e-peen to the yellow numbers that pop up. The majority of other players don't either.
But we do like seeing things like new artwork, where the story is going, things like the war between the KDF and Federation ending, the Voth Zone (which isn't released yet), new ships, etc.
To have a guest blog on pvp is little more than Cryptic saying, "We got nothin', stay tuned."
I'll trust what the people with access to the data say over what some random person in the game says.
If they can straight up say, "We could get rid of pvp content entirely and the game would not be signifigantly affected.", after all their gaffes in the past? That tells me that not only are they serious, but they're so confidant in that assertation that they don't care if people quit STO over it. And that they're willing to double-down on it, when Cryptic has been very hesitant about doubling-down on statements made before.
It also tells me that the margin of PvPers in STO are just that small, that they can afford to say something as cold as that without fear of massive backlash.
I can guarantee you I wouldn't bat an eyelash if pvp disappeared tomorrow. This isn't a "silent majority" I'm talking about. This is the extremely vocal majority on various web blogs, the forums, the game itself, in the media, etc. who spell it out for you that people care more about PvE than PvP.
To you. To those of us that PvP it's a nice acknowledgment. As far as income-generation, we may not represent the largest slice of the income pie but as a group we spend far more than most in proportion to our numbers. We're the people buying nearly every ship for consoles and opening boxes for Lobi. Some pay, some grind, either way putting more into the game which benefits PvE and PvP. It only makes sense to try to improve upon the smaller facet (PvP), given that the larger one (PvE) seems to generate enough income and activity already.
You know, PvP is pretty much the same...
Guest Blog by @fatman592
Today we will be discussing PvP.
Step One: Get Aux2Batt and/or FAW Scimitard/Vape build.
Step Two: Mash spacebar while flying in a circle/mash spacebar during Decloak+Alpha (run away if your vape fails).
Step Three: Collect no rewards.
*Don't bother showing up if you're not a Romulan or if you don't have a JHAS.
I mean really, anyone can make a strawman. Can we not make this another, PvP vs PvE debate. PvP has enough problems to talk about.
Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. Except for the part where "trying" to generate support for pvp will result in attention paid to the pvp aspect of the game.
My point is that no matter how many pvp guest blogs we have, nothing has signifigantly changed in PvP, whereas with PvE multiple things change all the time -- and since that's where development is, I think I'd rather see blogs on that instead.
So you are claiming to enjoy unchanged STFs after what 2-3 years ?
OR doing the same Tuvok mission 5 times per toon ? (I liked it the first time... badly written mostly I thought... but its trek staring a great actor I liked it once)
So if that sums you up ... someone who enjoys the same boring content over and over and over and over... cool man have fun.
My point is... most people are doing those things over and over and over and over. To earn gear. People don't earn themselves MK XII borg gear to go and try for 2:59 times in there infected run... the same run they just did 50 times to earn that borg gear.
They do it to earn that gear and use it against other players.
IF they did remove PvP it isn't that it would cause a small backlash that would be bad... its that 40-60% of the games players would just leave. I am pulling those numbers out of my wazzzzo no doubt. I really honestly believe that is much closer to the truth then Cryptic would state publicly. Privately I think they know that. Just look at the stuff in all the lockboxes ships and consoles and traits all of it... 90% of it is very much useless in PvE yet is super powerful in PvP. Trust me they know exactly who is padding there bank accounts. lol
I played the original STFs, I played them each time they were revamped, and I played Hive both on space and ground. Do I enjoy them? They're a nice time-waster and the dilithium is nice. But to say STFs haven't changed in 2-3 years is a bald-faced lie. I do believe Gozer was shoved out the door because of those changes -- in fact before he left he was working on pvp content for the game.
... so where is that work at? As far as I'm concerned he was playing Minesweeper and talking on the forums about all the changes to pvp that weren't going to come so he could keep collecting a paycheck.
Farming isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to keep you in the game. What rewards does PvP offer that is comparable to farming high-quality gear? I do the pvp dailies when I want the extra dilithium and fleet marks, but that's just another form of farming.
Except I didn't say that, but okay. It still doesn't contradict the fact the majority of Cryptic's money is made on PvE content. If you want to tell every person who participates in PvE content the same thing you told me, I'm sure they'll take you extremely seriously in between grinding their rep projects and fleet projects.
People use Mk XII whatever in whatever content they're doing. I see people in Solanae Dyson EVA suits doing Mine Trap and people shooting Borg on the ground with their Mk XII Dyson Rifles. People use whatever is new because they're dumb and think new = better.
Yes, yes you are.
It's not about what you believe, it's about what is fact and what is fiction.
You are mistaking intentionally-overpowered lockbox swag for PvPers for ignorance and apathy to PvP gameplay in terms of design to begin with.
You're also missing what some heads at Cryptic have long been unable to comprehend.
Do you know how much time, and cost go into that PvE content that gets consumed in a blitz never to repeated again?
Or the herculean effort that went into the Dyson Sphere?
None of that "brings home the bacon" - it exists as a giant distraction to hold your attention long enough to sell you a new ship and more keys (which is what actually brings home the bacon).
How much does it take to have "pvp content"? Comparatively much less.
Like a few maps and some balance passes., maybe a few extra modes and a matchmaking system.
PvPers are the bleeding edge.
Gear? They grind it, they buy it, they shoot each other as content for free - no artist needs to spend time making dinosaurs.
That's right, they make their own content.
Some at Cryptic get it, I'm sure PWE gets it - they have PvP in the majority of their games.
PvP = player driven content, low cost to develop and maintain, generates revenue and could be perfectly sustainable.
So if PvP content costs so little, but is used by so many players who spend zen and dilithium and blah blah blah getting the best gear for their overpowered and abusive build... then why are we seeing guest blogs from pvpers and not from Cryptic themselves?
Why are we getting dev blogs on PvE content on a consistent basis, but very little on PvP?
If the majority of lockbox money is spent by PvP players, then why does Cryptic not introduce new maps or new playstyles or new gameplay types -- I won't even mention the herculean task of actually making pvp balanced and enjoyable.
If this "silent majority" of PvP players who spend money to have "I Win" buttons for PvP, then why does Cryptic not acknowledge them more? Why do the dev blogs for the lockboxes not mention how overpowered they are for PvP if they want to advertise to the PvP players who supposedly make up a large portion of lockbox participants?
Either because Cryptic really wants to disavow the game's pvp aspect as much as possible because they hate it.
Or because those players aren't as numerous as people seem to believe they are in comparison to those who spend money to improve the quality of their PvE experiences.
You missed something in my previous post.
I'll let you go discover it.
Linked to the above.
They write blogs for the "content" that is basically a vehicle to market new ships or sell you another SB cosmetic project that costs $15. It's not rocket science man.
More? Who knows how much who is spending.
You're asking questions that Antonio already answered, which means you lack at least the common courtesy to read the posts that are responding to you.
Every PvPer in this game is forced to be a PvEr.
How do the devs know what PvPers are or are not spending zen on, or why they are spending it?
For all of the time PvPers spend grinding PvE - it's got nothing to do with PvE being fun, or engaging or what they want to do.
It's just the artificial barrier to get the gear they need & want for PvP.
We're not saying PvPers are some huge group, PvP has been systematically neglected and trashed by power creep - Antonio's point is that PvP often houses the biggest whales in games.
Cryptic knows how much who is spending. Cryptic keeps track of spending data. They have spreadsheets and pie charts. They're a for-profit business and it's a matter of record they keep track of every cent spent in the game, where it is spent, when it is spent, and most importantly what the players do once they spend it.
Just because we don't see the data does not mean that the data is not there. This is the data they use in order to market further features in STO.
PvPers are forced into being PvEers in the same way Foundry authors are forced into being PvEers. PvE is the core of the game, and PvP is just one off-shoot of that core. A minority of players, along with roleplayers, User-generated content enthusiasts, professional trolls, fleet-oriented politics, and so on and so forth.
There are many sub-cultures to STO who are all linked to the PvE experience in one way or another. That doesn't make PvPers 'forced' into participating in PvE any more than logging into the game makes me 'forced' to use the login screen to play.
The biggest whales still get taken apart by pods of orcas. It doesn't matter how big the whales are, they're individual whales in a massive ecosystem much bigger than they are -- with a population much more numerous than they are.
Financially speaking, I do not doubt PvPers spend a lot of money on the game. But I do doubt that the small minority of PvPers who do spend money on the game is somehow signifigant to the rest of the demographics, which again is a matter of record -- not conjecture, that shows PvP ultimately does not matter to most people.
Oh it hurts but its true. So many of the "hardcore" pvp types are massive huge endangered whales. lol
I have made many great PvP friends and a good handful of PvE freinds as well. I have to play both ends of the game to really enjoy it and I don't hate trek as boring as I find my 1000th STF at times I don't hate seeing trek ships and playing with trek people even if they are not PvPers.
Having made a few friends though I have dipped into more then one PvE fleet to grab access to which ever tier of fleet ship I was looking for at the time. (the PvP fleets have all caught up now so I don't swap in anymore)...
The couple of PvE fleets I jumped into though where large fleets where everyone on the leader board was pretty well spread out.. a couple guys a bit higher then the rest... but a nice even everyone pitching in spread.
Everyone reading that that is in a PvP fleet is laughing like crazy right now. Becasue NO PvP fleet works that way. Every PvP fleet I have been in or joined to drop marks in or what ever... have always had 1-2 guys with 10x more credit on the leaderboard then anyone else. Its not because there the fleet leaders either. We all know who they are they are either the super grinders or the whales... and if we are being honest we all love our whale friends, but they are Cryptics whales. Its the way the game is setup you can either grind till you want to pull your eyes out... or you can drop $. There is a small handful of PvP players that drop $ like they are rich... well in some cases they may well be. Nothing wrong with that... just saying Cryptic should for sure do more to keep those types of players happy.
I can list 3 or 4 "whale" players that have left just in the last year. I know one has already thrown over 5k at Chris Roberts. He would happily have thrown it at Cryptic had he not been sick of waiting for them to address his favored game type.