My question and only one is this. I've recently been to tribble and look at it up close via the in-game ship roster. All i'm seeing for customization is 3 different hull materials. 0 i repeat 0 nacelles, saucer, etc. or am i missing this cause it cant be purchased yet. If smirk or anyone on cryptic team could shed some light on this i might consider dropping zen for the 9 pack. just don't want to buy it feeling like i got the dirty end of a stick.
Yes, my thoughts exactly! Ships are starting to look ridiculous, especially Federation ones. High time to hire someone that understands Starfleet design, Cryptic.
I have to agree. There is slightly mis-guided and 25th century. Odyssey = 25th century, Regent = 25 century to name but a few ... but definitely, some recently are mis-guided.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
So, from Fed->KDF you gain 600 crew and 1650 hull
All the other abilities, etc. are the same as far as I can tell.
Would seem that lowering the shield modifier is set-off by the crew/hull.
Just noticing things, no vast conspiracy . . .
You already wrote the tradeoff. 1000 crew. Could just name the ship IKS Neverreg. Agreed, it not as abyssmal as a 3600 crew ship like the Bortasq, but it is far worse than a 400 crew ship.
The need to grind for the four sets was well flagged in advance.
People asked and asked for a different solution from Cryptic, often offering a range of constructive solutions.
Not one of those requests has ever been acknowledged by Cryptic.
To turn round now and just add what people felt themselves forced to grind for to the c-store pack would be insulting.
The grindaversary raised a lot of issues, this is just one of them.
Nibbling at the edges of this complex of bad choices wont be a good long term solution.
Cryptic need to step up and acknowledge that serious errors of judgement were made.
Then, perhaps, something constructive can come out of this.
Until then, I'm not spending a dime on the game.
A) Not every player of STO, now or in the future, will have played in the past. Not every player who has played in the past will have been playing during this one-month span
C) Paying customers in the future will have zero incentive to search back months/years for the pre-C-store ship dev blog mentioning a grind ship.
Yes, some people might be insulted. I did the grind, I'd be among that sub-set. But I also realize that what I did made Cryptic no profit (short of a membership), and that those that fork over $50/100/150 should be able to expect a full set of consoles.
I agree, they should never have set it up this way in the first place--the grind ship should not be a 9-console Lvl 40, the C-store should not come with an incomplete set. But to worry about the people that did the grind (for free) being upset, and NOT worried about potential customers shelling out $50+ for a set of ships, is to not understand who their actual customers are.
There were many bad choices, yes. There were many good alternatives offered, yes. But that is done and over with--all that remains are FUTURE customers, and at the least, those who did the grind didn't pay for the ships outright--future customers will, and will get an incomplete set.
Alternative: Add the Warp Core/2ndary Deflector to the Fleet shops or Lobi (though Lobi, and the demand for money to get it, would be worse in my mind). Maybe add the ship as a 1 FSM ship like the Obelisk.
Now the problem I have with the "inconplete" mindset is that those players are most likely in a Fleet, lording their Fleet ships over all and seeing nothing wrong with having them because they "worked" for them, IE lucked into a large enough Fleet with resources.
Having to grind an event to get certain special parts especially with all the advanced warnings is not the problem here.
The problem is the entitlist attitude.
What's funny is that's the same statement I get from Fleetys defending their locked behind the Fleet system ships.
Now the problem I have with the "inconplete" mindset is that those players are most likely in a Fleet, lording their Fleet ships over all and seeing nothing wrong with having them because they "worked" for them, IE lucked into a large enough Fleet with resources.
Having to grind an event to get certain special parts especially with all the advanced warnings is not the problem here.
The problem is the entitlist attitude.
What's funny is that's the same statement I get from Fleetys defending their locked behind the Fleet system ships.
So Hypocrisy or Karma?
You don't know what "Entitled" means.
You can't be "entitled" if you put effort in. And paying $50-150 for C-store ships, only to find an incomplete set, it is not "entitlement" to be upset at this--it is justifiable.
It is also not "entitled" to do the grind and then be unhappy with the ship--you worked for it, hence, are not "entitled" if you're unhappy.
"Entitled" would require people to demand something for merely existing, it is inapplicable here.
As for wanting a fleet ship? Dude, join a fleet and actually contribute enough to earn your keep. Ship Requisitions don't come for free, and every Fleet ship bought represerts a significant amount of resources contributed by the entire fleet. Stick in a fleet for more than a few days, actually contribute to it, and get ranked up enough to get a ship. I've NEVER been in a fleet that wasn't perfectly clear about their ranking systems, and if you have, you need to move to a fleet that's more transparent.
Besides, this has NOTHING to do with fleets in the first place. But it's funny that you're upset you don't get a Fleet ship without work, then you accuse others of acting "entitled". Buddy, what do you think you're doing?
As for wanting a fleet ship? Dude, join a fleet and actually contribute enough to earn your keep. Ship Requisitions don't come for free, and every Fleet ship bought represerts a significant amount of resources contributed by the entire fleet. Stick in a fleet for more than a few days, actually contribute to it, and get ranked up enough to get a ship. I've NEVER been in a fleet that wasn't perfectly clear about their ranking systems, and if you have, you need to move to a fleet that's more transparent.
Besides, this has NOTHING to do with fleets in the first place. But it's funny that you're upset you don't get a Fleet ship without work, then you accuse others of acting "entitled". Buddy, what do you think you're doing?
I AM a Fleet. Just a small one consisting of players that work for a living so slackers can bite the hands that feed them on forums.
If I were Cryptic, I would just ignore the forums and do things my way as every time they try to be nice there is an uproar from the slackers who don't want to play the game to get something.
Funny how Fleetys complain about having to grind and in the same sentence say that everyone needs to "earn" something they got by being in a big Fleet.
As for being upset, I could make a Vulcan call me cold. Nice try thou.
Perhaps if the Moderator or a Cryptic employee would be willing to dive more indepth about how & why the naming process is there would be less rolling of the eyes. This Moderator gave "a" theory about why the Tactical was titled Montgomery instead of the Engineering, but didn't go furthur about the other names like Omega & Helios nor the other factional Advanced Science Destroyers. Why is this Tactical named after a ... name & the others are not? Are some names staying with Trek canon & some names are using real-life references? Explaining the reasoning & process about this decision & others would be interesting. It might make an insightful Developer's Blog someday.
After all, when mentioning Star Trek & stating the name Montgomery if the first character you think of isn't Montgomery Scott you may not be a Trekkie.
I'm still undecided about purchasing any of the ships. The (9) ship pack is alluring, but costly & I only have (3) Science toons & can pilot only (1) at a time. The lack of customization & differences between the factions seem too shallow to me, but I have piloted the Anniversary version & I do like all (3) designs somewhat.
I appreciate the 4th Anniversary event. I too "grinded" for (4) of the ships & enjoyed the storyline, mini-games, & mission overall. Keep up the good work.
So... all this bickering about the Montgomery Class... Well I guess naming Ship classes after WWII Generals is no longer allowed? Omega, Helios, and Montgomery, sure... seems a lil like the Devs borked that one. OH WELL.
This "grind" you speak of.... cost me an hour to do the mission and 200 lobi PER TOON. didnt cost me any real life cash.... and i don't remember a grueling grind that people are complaining about.
Let me tell you what i see happening.
The Devs are Trying to add new unbugged non peice of TRIBBLE content, and to me they are doing a fine job...
The Hybrid destroyers go right along with Season 8 content.
The REAL funny thing is, it isnt hard to refine 8k dilithium per day, per toon even if you have 5-35 toons, ( i have 35 toons ). And have 10,000 zen to buy 9 ships you want... at roughly 2.5k zen a day.... Its called grinding dilithium, and the Developers have actually made it SO FREAKING EASY to grind dilithium, its loading screens that get annoying. when switching toons.
Thats the Glory of this game, you do NOT ever need to spend any money ever to get something you want, you just need to be patient and hoard stuff up. The more toons you have the richer you are, by default, all you need to do is log into them, and use them once in awhile.
If you want to argue about having Vet Rewards, then go pay real life cash, those vet rewards are not expecially spectacular.
I also notice alot of people not understanding, that, season 9, according to the wiki anyway, is going to be PVP focused.... alot of the new content coming out, is obviously based around making pvp less of a chore, and more fun. Just SEARCH STO upcoming content...
And to the Captains that think they need to be a science officer, to get the full beneifit from the Advanced Dyson hybrids, you don't need to be. These ships, as with any ship, work fine, no matter what type of captain you are.
I AM a Fleet. Just a small one consisting of players that work for a living so slackers can bite the hands that feed them on forums.
If I were Cryptic, I would just ignore the forums and do things my way as every time they try to be nice there is an uproar from the slackers who don't want to play the game to get something.
Funny how Fleetys complain about having to grind and in the same sentence say that everyone needs to "earn" something they got by being in a big Fleet.
As for being upset, I could make a Vulcan call me cold. Nice try thou.
Ooh, you work for a living! Is that that 40-50 hours a week I spend doing something for someone else to earn a paycheck? Yeah, yeah I think it is. Yup, I got me one of them too. Whoop-de-doo, I'm not a "slacker"!
Nothing you said negates my comments. You're in a fleet, and by the sound of it, in a tiny/personal fleet. Which means... you're not playing the game the way it's intended.
I'm in a fleet with 250 people, and only about 20-30 dedicated members that are online a lot. But you know what? If every person in that fleet does one Fleet Marks run, turns in 5-10% of their Dil earnings per week, and contributes Doffs when needed (and commodities too), those projects go by quick. Hell, grinding down green/blue Doffs when you need space nets you tens of thousand of Fleet Marks for something you were gonna do anyway--and you still probably sell a million or two worth of EC on the exchange.
But those Provisions cost resources too. A lot of resources. Each Provision project takes dilithium and other stuff that you, personally, probably didn't contribute. The whole pays in, and you benefit. Which is why you can't hop into a fleet and have immediate access to ships and gear--each bit of that costs the whole fleet Provisions.
What's really funny though, is that you're accusing other people of being entitled, and then getting upset that people who worked for something get some benefit you don't. Implying that either they shouldn't, or you should. Which is... well, there's a word for it... it's on the tip of my tongue...
Look, you want to play in a dinky fleet, don't throw a fit that you don't have the same access as a fleet played-as-intended. I didn't "luck" into a fleet with resources, I've been working in the same fleet for 16+ months, and I joined when it was barely upgrading to Tier 2 Starbase. And I've been with the same players ever since, and we routinely invite people and don't kick anyone unless they're intentionally douchey, and promote to the ability to buy at 20k Fleet Marks (other fleets I've seen lock purchases behind 100k+).
Regardless, all of this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND, it's just a massive red herring. The issue here was, people who pay $50 for a bundle should not only get 3/4 of a set. Because they PAID FOR IT--real money, equivalent to several dozen (hundred?) hours of in-game grinding. Since they PAID for it, and aren't getting the full kit, they're then asked to PAY again, with 600 Lobi--several hundred (thousand?) hours of in-game grinding.
So, they've paid much more than a Fleet Ship costs to get three ships, when they likely only wanted the consoles, only they still need another piece, that since they weren't playing when the Promotion was on (or didn't have the time to complete it, since you jabbed me about being a "slacker"), they have to fork over 600 Lobi for a ship they'll NEVER FLY because they already purchased the better variants. It's badly designed, greedy, or some combination thereof.
That's the actual issue, that's what was being discussed before you jumped in and threw a fit because you can't have "Fleety" ships. Which is, well, entitled, and accusing the people who either A) Joined and/or worked on a Fleet to access those ships, as well as purchased/ground 4-5 Fleet Ship Modules, or People who already paid $50 real-world money for an incomplete set, of being "entitled" instead.
You don't have a clue what the word means, and none of your "arguments" amount to much more than whining. You've contributed nothing useful, and you've accused everyone of being lazy and entitled while complaining about just the things they worked to earn/buy.
So, other than for you, the advice remains: Want a Fleet ship? Find a good Fleet (you can leave at any time if you don't like the terms/people, BTW) and join another (which isn't hard: people are often invited to a fleet so fast when they ask that in the 10 seconds it takes me to invite them they've already been invited and accepted). After that, be a decent person, be nice and contribute, get promoted, and have access to all that Fleety Swag!
Just because you don't want to do that or are invested in your small/personal fleet is no one else's problem.
This "grind" you speak of.... cost me an hour to do the mission and 200 lobi PER TOON. didnt cost me any real life cash.... and i don't remember a grueling grind that people are complaining about.
So... where and how did you get the Lobi?
Where and how did you get the 35 alts?
Either it took money, or it took a significant amount of your time. Both are a cost, and many people think that demanding a Lobi per-toon purchase after shelling out $50-100 (or 5,000-10,000 Zen / 1,300,000 Dil / 162.5 days of Dilithium Grinding) is ignoble and greedy.
Plus, 200 Lobi at 4-5 per Lockbox = 40 Keys, 40 Keys = 4500 Zen / 585,000 Dil / 73.125 days. And you can only do that if you've already slotted the project. A lot of grinding. Unless you have 35 toons, where you could earn that in two+ days...
You've gotta have a hell of a system. Please tell, how do you get 8000 Dil per toon per day on 35 toons, unless you spend all day playing the game and do nothing else? I'd legitimately like to know, as I barely cleared 200k on that Dil Weekend and played several hours a day. Are you capping every one of them? What missions are you doing? How long does it take per toon to earn it?
You can't be "entitled" if you put effort in. And paying $50-150 for C-store ships, only to find an incomplete set, it is not "entitlement" to be upset at this--it is justifiable.
It is also not "entitled" to do the grind and then be unhappy with the ship--you worked for it, hence, are not "entitled" if you're unhappy.
"Entitled" would require people to demand something for merely existing, it is inapplicable here.
As for wanting a fleet ship? Dude, join a fleet and actually contribute enough to earn your keep. Ship Requisitions don't come for free, and every Fleet ship bought represerts a significant amount of resources contributed by the entire fleet. Stick in a fleet for more than a few days, actually contribute to it, and get ranked up enough to get a ship. I've NEVER been in a fleet that wasn't perfectly clear about their ranking systems, and if you have, you need to move to a fleet that's more transparent.
Besides, this has NOTHING to do with fleets in the first place. But it's funny that you're upset you don't get a Fleet ship without work, then you accuse others of acting "entitled". Buddy, what do you think you're doing?
I don't agree with you saying it's justifiable. I didn't pay a cent for the 10k zen ships, I grind thru the exchange with dilithium. Probably about 1.3 million in dil that I grinded from 10+ characters. I also grinded the event with those characters, probably took me 45 minutes a day. If you paid 50-150 dollars for the ships, that's your problem. You could've grinded for your zen, but bought them instead (much less time consuming), but that doesn't mean you should be entitled to everything. And dont forget the reverse is true as well. People who did the event, but didn't buy the Zen store ships won't get the set either. So paying is better off than not. STO should not be a P2W game. If you want eveything, you have to do the work. I do agree with you on the Fleet ships. Those who are in a small fleet shouldn't complain, they always have the option to join a big one and work their way up.
I don't agree with you saying it's justifiable. I didn't pay a cent for the 10k zen ships, I grind thru the exchange with dilithium. Probably about 1.3 million in dil that I grinded from 10+ characters. I also grinded the event with those characters, probably took me 45 minutes a day. If you paid 50-150 dollars for the ships, that's your problem. You could've grinded for your zen, but bought them instead (much less time consuming), but that doesn't mean you should be entitled to everything. And dont forget the reverse is true as well. People who did the event, but didn't buy the Zen store ships won't get the set either. So paying is better off than not. STO should not be a P2W game. If you want eveything, you have to do the work. I do agree with you on the Fleet ships. Those who are in a small fleet shouldn't complain, they always have the option to join a big one and work their way up.
Time = money.
It's fantastic you make that much Dilithium--please, pretty please, share in the knowledge--I find it hard to cap four toons, much less ten!--but the fact remains that it is a ton of work you put in to pay for it.
And that amount of work is not to be scoffed at or met with another, bigger, demand for money to finish a product.
Whether you paid directly or indirectly through (admit it, a lot of grinding) is immaterial. Cryptic/PWE makes no profit off or players like you who grind all your money, and not much off me who sub and occasionally buy Zen. The people that cough up $50-100 real money is where their profit comes from.
Those are the golden customers, the ones who actually pay the bills. And those are the people most injured by this.
I think the solution is simple: Put the Grind Ship parts on the C-Store ships. And I'm saying this as someone who "earned" the Grind Ship by grinding. But sticking those consoles on a per-toon Lobi ship, when the only people who might need them have already bought better versions of that ship, is insulting--and the price is even worse!
Other consoles cost 200 Lobi each. So why in the hell are these two locked to a 600 Lobi ship that's most likely going to be trashed the moment the gear is off of it?
PS--I'm serious, please tell me how you earn 8,000 per day per alt without spending all day playing. Because what I'm doing clearly isn't working!!
In my opinion, I feel that for FEDs the vesta line is better, so that's what I'm going to buy with my Zen. Feel free to challenge me, but here's why:
1) Larger crew of 750, compared to the Dyson destroyer's 400.
2) Has a hangar bay, able to equip the incredibly good Yellowstone runabouts, unlike the dyson destroyer which does not have a hangar.
3) Some may say that the dyson ship has a higher shield mod of 1.457, compared to the Vesta's 1.35, but this is only 7% better, 1.35 is a lot higher than most other ships anyway.
4) Some may say that the higher hull points for the dyson makes it better, having 31,350 compared to the Vesta's 28,000. I admit, 28,000 may not seem like much at first, especially for such a big ship, but with such strong shields this isn't such a large problem, especially if you equip a resilient shield to prevent bleedthrough. Also, the fermion field, graviton shield and quantum bubble all reduce damage to hull, and the vesta has a very versatile boff setup, so you can have both lt. and lt. cmdr. engineering boffs to counter hull damage.
5) The dyson has this pretty cool 'tactical mode' it can go into, but let's have a really good look at what it does. It basically loses most of its science stuff: It loses 15 aux power, secondary deflector, sensor analysis, subsystem targeting, and its cmdr. sci boff ability. True, it gets those cool Proton DHCs and a Cmdr. boff ability, but that renders most of its sci ship abilities, e.g. sensor analysis, subs. targeting, pretty useless, doesn't it? This ship is trying to be a middle man between sci and tac ships. Let's face it, when you go into combat, you're going to go into tac mode and lose most of your science stuff. You want a science ship, get a vesta. You want a tac ship, get one of the many things far better than the dyson destroyer. Don't go for this 'comprimise' of a ship.
6) The Vesta comes with auxiliary Dual Heavy cannons, wonderful weapons which draw power from your Aux power level rather than weapons. This enables you to have a high auxiliary power setting, good for carrier pets as well and sci abilities, and still have a very potent weapon. You may think that the proton DHCs are just as good, but I don't think they are... they're stuck in place, it's true that they give an extra weapon, (i.e. having 4 fore weapons instead of 3), but they're only available in tac mode. At what cost? You've had to sacrifice all of your scientific potency for a couple of power-draining DHCs and a Cmdr. tac ability.
7) Lastly, the console abilities and set. What can I say? The Vesta is obviously better in every aspect. Firstly, the tac variant ability: For the aventine, it's a quantum field phaser, which deals large amounts of damage over its 12 second duration, and looks seriously cool, not unlike the dreadnought's spinal lance. Compared to the Dyson's Omega class tac console, which is a proton chain/beam thing, the field phaser does more damage and can be enhanced by phaser relay and exotic dmg consoles. Admittedly, the proton chain can affect other nearby targets, but isometric charge, subspace rift, even Fire at Will, do more than the AoE effect of this console. Even Gravity well would be better, especially if it's your Cmdr. sci ability - but oh wait! - on the dyson destroyer, you lose your Cmdr sci ability in tac mode! What a shame...
For the vesta's fermion field, this is a fantastic AoE heal and buff, like a giant hazard emitters ability almost. It helps heal the vesta's lower hull and improves dmg resistance. What has the Dyson's omega class got? Another shield buff ability - yet it already has very strong shields! What it's lacking is a strong enough hull - the vesta's abilities help work on the ships' weaknesses, whereas the Dyson's omega class just further boosts its greatest strength, a boost which isn't needed. Unless you're trying to take on the Crystalline entity solo, you aren't going to need all this shield stuff!
Lastly, the Vesta line's engineering ship, the rademaker, has a graviton shield, again which helps counter the ship's weakness. It improves dmg resistance massively, reflecting kinetic damage, etc... It's like feedback pulse, brace for impact, polarize hull and tractor beam repulsors all put into one massive ability! It's fantastic. Now let's look at the sci console of the Helios class - Now this is a really cool offensive ability, I will admit - collapsing a targets shields. Sounds great - but here's the catch: It's only a temporary collapse. It causes them to go down for a tiny bit - then they're back up again. True, there's a degree of shield damage, but I would rather have the graviton shield ability than this shield inversion.
The Dyson destroyer's console abilities can almost all be replaced by something better - the proton beam/chain thing could be replaced by many other console abilities, such as the isometric pulse which jumps doing MORE damage each time, or the refracting tetryon cascade, or I daresay, the quantum field focus phaser. The Omega class's shield boost thing is just an over-powered transfer shield strength with longer cooldown. I would get transfer shield strength instead - almost as big a shield boost, and a mere 45 sec cooldown! On the other hand, reverse shield polarity grants you pretty much perfect shields for the same duration as this ability! Think about it - the protonic shielding matrix boasts that it 'reinforces your shields for a while' - sounds like reverse shield polarity to me! It's the same thing, just with a fancy name and longer cooldown. And for the last console ability, the shield inversion, I admit that is pretty good, but its one of the only good things about the dyson destroyer, compared to the many advantages of the vesta. Also, I would rather have the immensely powerful graviton shield ability than this brief shield collapse console.
Now for the set bonuses - Would you rather have super-fast quantum slipstream and literally invicibility on the vesta ? Or would you rather have extra shield HP (yeah, we really need that don't we?), a minute knocked off the very long cooldowns, and upgraded rubbish abilities? If you upgrade a poor ability, it can only become average.
I rest my case. Although the vesta line may have slightly lower hull and shields than the dyson destroyer, everything else is far, far better.
Comments
Thank you for you time,
Goddess
You couldn't have named the Engineering variant that? Really Cryptic?
I have to agree. There is slightly mis-guided and 25th century. Odyssey = 25th century, Regent = 25 century to name but a few ... but definitely, some recently are mis-guided.
I hope STO get's better ...
You already wrote the tradeoff. 1000 crew. Could just name the ship IKS Neverreg. Agreed, it not as abyssmal as a 3600 crew ship like the Bortasq, but it is far worse than a 400 crew ship.
A) Not every player of STO, now or in the future, will have played in the past.
C) Paying customers in the future will have zero incentive to search back months/years for the pre-C-store ship dev blog mentioning a grind ship.
Yes, some people might be insulted. I did the grind, I'd be among that sub-set. But I also realize that what I did made Cryptic no profit (short of a membership), and that those that fork over $50/100/150 should be able to expect a full set of consoles.
I agree, they should never have set it up this way in the first place--the grind ship should not be a 9-console Lvl 40, the C-store should not come with an incomplete set. But to worry about the people that did the grind (for free) being upset, and NOT worried about potential customers shelling out $50+ for a set of ships, is to not understand who their actual customers are.
There were many bad choices, yes. There were many good alternatives offered, yes. But that is done and over with--all that remains are FUTURE customers, and at the least, those who did the grind didn't pay for the ships outright--future customers will, and will get an incomplete set.
Alternative: Add the Warp Core/2ndary Deflector to the Fleet shops or Lobi (though Lobi, and the demand for money to get it, would be worse in my mind). Maybe add the ship as a 1 FSM ship like the Obelisk.
Having to grind an event to get certain special parts especially with all the advanced warnings is not the problem here.
The problem is the entitlist attitude.
What's funny is that's the same statement I get from Fleetys defending their locked behind the Fleet system ships.
So Hypocrisy or Karma?
You don't know what "Entitled" means.
You can't be "entitled" if you put effort in. And paying $50-150 for C-store ships, only to find an incomplete set, it is not "entitlement" to be upset at this--it is justifiable.
It is also not "entitled" to do the grind and then be unhappy with the ship--you worked for it, hence, are not "entitled" if you're unhappy.
"Entitled" would require people to demand something for merely existing, it is inapplicable here.
As for wanting a fleet ship? Dude, join a fleet and actually contribute enough to earn your keep. Ship Requisitions don't come for free, and every Fleet ship bought represerts a significant amount of resources contributed by the entire fleet. Stick in a fleet for more than a few days, actually contribute to it, and get ranked up enough to get a ship. I've NEVER been in a fleet that wasn't perfectly clear about their ranking systems, and if you have, you need to move to a fleet that's more transparent.
Besides, this has NOTHING to do with fleets in the first place. But it's funny that you're upset you don't get a Fleet ship without work, then you accuse others of acting "entitled". Buddy, what do you think you're doing?
I AM a Fleet. Just a small one consisting of players that work for a living so slackers can bite the hands that feed them on forums.
If I were Cryptic, I would just ignore the forums and do things my way as every time they try to be nice there is an uproar from the slackers who don't want to play the game to get something.
Funny how Fleetys complain about having to grind and in the same sentence say that everyone needs to "earn" something they got by being in a big Fleet.
As for being upset, I could make a Vulcan call me cold. Nice try thou.
After all, when mentioning Star Trek & stating the name Montgomery if the first character you think of isn't Montgomery Scott you may not be a Trekkie.
I'm still undecided about purchasing any of the ships. The (9) ship pack is alluring, but costly & I only have (3) Science toons & can pilot only (1) at a time. The lack of customization & differences between the factions seem too shallow to me, but I have piloted the Anniversary version & I do like all (3) designs somewhat.
I appreciate the 4th Anniversary event. I too "grinded" for (4) of the ships & enjoyed the storyline, mini-games, & mission overall. Keep up the good work.
This "grind" you speak of.... cost me an hour to do the mission and 200 lobi PER TOON. didnt cost me any real life cash.... and i don't remember a grueling grind that people are complaining about.
Let me tell you what i see happening.
The Devs are Trying to add new unbugged non peice of TRIBBLE content, and to me they are doing a fine job...
The Hybrid destroyers go right along with Season 8 content.
The REAL funny thing is, it isnt hard to refine 8k dilithium per day, per toon even if you have 5-35 toons, ( i have 35 toons ). And have 10,000 zen to buy 9 ships you want... at roughly 2.5k zen a day.... Its called grinding dilithium, and the Developers have actually made it SO FREAKING EASY to grind dilithium, its loading screens that get annoying. when switching toons.
Thats the Glory of this game, you do NOT ever need to spend any money ever to get something you want, you just need to be patient and hoard stuff up. The more toons you have the richer you are, by default, all you need to do is log into them, and use them once in awhile.
If you want to argue about having Vet Rewards, then go pay real life cash, those vet rewards are not expecially spectacular.
I also notice alot of people not understanding, that, season 9, according to the wiki anyway, is going to be PVP focused.... alot of the new content coming out, is obviously based around making pvp less of a chore, and more fun. Just SEARCH STO upcoming content...
And to the Captains that think they need to be a science officer, to get the full beneifit from the Advanced Dyson hybrids, you don't need to be. These ships, as with any ship, work fine, no matter what type of captain you are.
Ooh, you work for a living! Is that that 40-50 hours a week I spend doing something for someone else to earn a paycheck? Yeah, yeah I think it is. Yup, I got me one of them too. Whoop-de-doo, I'm not a "slacker"!
Nothing you said negates my comments. You're in a fleet, and by the sound of it, in a tiny/personal fleet. Which means... you're not playing the game the way it's intended.
I'm in a fleet with 250 people, and only about 20-30 dedicated members that are online a lot. But you know what? If every person in that fleet does one Fleet Marks run, turns in 5-10% of their Dil earnings per week, and contributes Doffs when needed (and commodities too), those projects go by quick. Hell, grinding down green/blue Doffs when you need space nets you tens of thousand of Fleet Marks for something you were gonna do anyway--and you still probably sell a million or two worth of EC on the exchange.
But those Provisions cost resources too. A lot of resources. Each Provision project takes dilithium and other stuff that you, personally, probably didn't contribute. The whole pays in, and you benefit. Which is why you can't hop into a fleet and have immediate access to ships and gear--each bit of that costs the whole fleet Provisions.
What's really funny though, is that you're accusing other people of being entitled, and then getting upset that people who worked for something get some benefit you don't. Implying that either they shouldn't, or you should. Which is... well, there's a word for it... it's on the tip of my tongue...
Look, you want to play in a dinky fleet, don't throw a fit that you don't have the same access as a fleet played-as-intended. I didn't "luck" into a fleet with resources, I've been working in the same fleet for 16+ months, and I joined when it was barely upgrading to Tier 2 Starbase. And I've been with the same players ever since, and we routinely invite people and don't kick anyone unless they're intentionally douchey, and promote to the ability to buy at 20k Fleet Marks (other fleets I've seen lock purchases behind 100k+).
Regardless, all of this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND, it's just a massive red herring. The issue here was, people who pay $50 for a bundle should not only get 3/4 of a set. Because they PAID FOR IT--real money, equivalent to several dozen (hundred?) hours of in-game grinding. Since they PAID for it, and aren't getting the full kit, they're then asked to PAY again, with 600 Lobi--several hundred (thousand?) hours of in-game grinding.
So, they've paid much more than a Fleet Ship costs to get three ships, when they likely only wanted the consoles, only they still need another piece, that since they weren't playing when the Promotion was on (or didn't have the time to complete it, since you jabbed me about being a "slacker"), they have to fork over 600 Lobi for a ship they'll NEVER FLY because they already purchased the better variants. It's badly designed, greedy, or some combination thereof.
That's the actual issue, that's what was being discussed before you jumped in and threw a fit because you can't have "Fleety" ships. Which is, well, entitled, and accusing the people who either A) Joined and/or worked on a Fleet to access those ships, as well as purchased/ground 4-5 Fleet Ship Modules, or
You don't have a clue what the word means, and none of your "arguments" amount to much more than whining. You've contributed nothing useful, and you've accused everyone of being lazy and entitled while complaining about just the things they worked to earn/buy.
So, other than for you, the advice remains: Want a Fleet ship? Find a good Fleet (you can leave at any time if you don't like the terms/people, BTW) and join another (which isn't hard: people are often invited to a fleet so fast when they ask that in the 10 seconds it takes me to invite them they've already been invited and accepted). After that, be a decent person, be nice and contribute, get promoted, and have access to all that Fleety Swag!
Just because you don't want to do that or are invested in your small/personal fleet is no one else's problem.
So... where and how did you get the Lobi?
Where and how did you get the 35 alts?
Either it took money, or it took a significant amount of your time. Both are a cost, and many people think that demanding a Lobi per-toon purchase after shelling out $50-100 (or 5,000-10,000 Zen / 1,300,000 Dil / 162.5 days of Dilithium Grinding) is ignoble and greedy.
Plus, 200 Lobi at 4-5 per Lockbox = 40 Keys, 40 Keys = 4500 Zen / 585,000 Dil / 73.125 days. And you can only do that if you've already slotted the project. A lot of grinding. Unless you have 35 toons, where you could earn that in two+ days...
You've gotta have a hell of a system. Please tell, how do you get 8000 Dil per toon per day on 35 toons, unless you spend all day playing the game and do nothing else? I'd legitimately like to know, as I barely cleared 200k on that Dil Weekend and played several hours a day. Are you capping every one of them? What missions are you doing? How long does it take per toon to earn it?
I don't agree with you saying it's justifiable. I didn't pay a cent for the 10k zen ships, I grind thru the exchange with dilithium. Probably about 1.3 million in dil that I grinded from 10+ characters. I also grinded the event with those characters, probably took me 45 minutes a day. If you paid 50-150 dollars for the ships, that's your problem. You could've grinded for your zen, but bought them instead (much less time consuming), but that doesn't mean you should be entitled to everything. And dont forget the reverse is true as well. People who did the event, but didn't buy the Zen store ships won't get the set either. So paying is better off than not. STO should not be a P2W game. If you want eveything, you have to do the work. I do agree with you on the Fleet ships. Those who are in a small fleet shouldn't complain, they always have the option to join a big one and work their way up.
Time = money.
It's fantastic you make that much Dilithium--please, pretty please, share in the knowledge--I find it hard to cap four toons, much less ten!--but the fact remains that it is a ton of work you put in to pay for it.
And that amount of work is not to be scoffed at or met with another, bigger, demand for money to finish a product.
Whether you paid directly or indirectly through (admit it, a lot of grinding) is immaterial. Cryptic/PWE makes no profit off or players like you who grind all your money, and not much off me who sub and occasionally buy Zen. The people that cough up $50-100 real money is where their profit comes from.
Those are the golden customers, the ones who actually pay the bills. And those are the people most injured by this.
I think the solution is simple: Put the Grind Ship parts on the C-Store ships. And I'm saying this as someone who "earned" the Grind Ship by grinding. But sticking those consoles on a per-toon Lobi ship, when the only people who might need them have already bought better versions of that ship, is insulting--and the price is even worse!
Other consoles cost 200 Lobi each. So why in the hell are these two locked to a 600 Lobi ship that's most likely going to be trashed the moment the gear is off of it?
PS--I'm serious, please tell me how you earn 8,000 per day per alt without spending all day playing. Because what I'm doing clearly isn't working!!
1) Larger crew of 750, compared to the Dyson destroyer's 400.
2) Has a hangar bay, able to equip the incredibly good Yellowstone runabouts, unlike the dyson destroyer which does not have a hangar.
3) Some may say that the dyson ship has a higher shield mod of 1.457, compared to the Vesta's 1.35, but this is only 7% better, 1.35 is a lot higher than most other ships anyway.
4) Some may say that the higher hull points for the dyson makes it better, having 31,350 compared to the Vesta's 28,000. I admit, 28,000 may not seem like much at first, especially for such a big ship, but with such strong shields this isn't such a large problem, especially if you equip a resilient shield to prevent bleedthrough. Also, the fermion field, graviton shield and quantum bubble all reduce damage to hull, and the vesta has a very versatile boff setup, so you can have both lt. and lt. cmdr. engineering boffs to counter hull damage.
5) The dyson has this pretty cool 'tactical mode' it can go into, but let's have a really good look at what it does. It basically loses most of its science stuff: It loses 15 aux power, secondary deflector, sensor analysis, subsystem targeting, and its cmdr. sci boff ability. True, it gets those cool Proton DHCs and a Cmdr. boff ability, but that renders most of its sci ship abilities, e.g. sensor analysis, subs. targeting, pretty useless, doesn't it? This ship is trying to be a middle man between sci and tac ships. Let's face it, when you go into combat, you're going to go into tac mode and lose most of your science stuff. You want a science ship, get a vesta. You want a tac ship, get one of the many things far better than the dyson destroyer. Don't go for this 'comprimise' of a ship.
6) The Vesta comes with auxiliary Dual Heavy cannons, wonderful weapons which draw power from your Aux power level rather than weapons. This enables you to have a high auxiliary power setting, good for carrier pets as well and sci abilities, and still have a very potent weapon. You may think that the proton DHCs are just as good, but I don't think they are... they're stuck in place, it's true that they give an extra weapon, (i.e. having 4 fore weapons instead of 3), but they're only available in tac mode. At what cost? You've had to sacrifice all of your scientific potency for a couple of power-draining DHCs and a Cmdr. tac ability.
7) Lastly, the console abilities and set. What can I say? The Vesta is obviously better in every aspect. Firstly, the tac variant ability: For the aventine, it's a quantum field phaser, which deals large amounts of damage over its 12 second duration, and looks seriously cool, not unlike the dreadnought's spinal lance. Compared to the Dyson's Omega class tac console, which is a proton chain/beam thing, the field phaser does more damage and can be enhanced by phaser relay and exotic dmg consoles. Admittedly, the proton chain can affect other nearby targets, but isometric charge, subspace rift, even Fire at Will, do more than the AoE effect of this console. Even Gravity well would be better, especially if it's your Cmdr. sci ability - but oh wait! - on the dyson destroyer, you lose your Cmdr sci ability in tac mode! What a shame...
For the vesta's fermion field, this is a fantastic AoE heal and buff, like a giant hazard emitters ability almost. It helps heal the vesta's lower hull and improves dmg resistance. What has the Dyson's omega class got? Another shield buff ability - yet it already has very strong shields! What it's lacking is a strong enough hull - the vesta's abilities help work on the ships' weaknesses, whereas the Dyson's omega class just further boosts its greatest strength, a boost which isn't needed. Unless you're trying to take on the Crystalline entity solo, you aren't going to need all this shield stuff!
Lastly, the Vesta line's engineering ship, the rademaker, has a graviton shield, again which helps counter the ship's weakness. It improves dmg resistance massively, reflecting kinetic damage, etc... It's like feedback pulse, brace for impact, polarize hull and tractor beam repulsors all put into one massive ability! It's fantastic. Now let's look at the sci console of the Helios class - Now this is a really cool offensive ability, I will admit - collapsing a targets shields. Sounds great - but here's the catch: It's only a temporary collapse. It causes them to go down for a tiny bit - then they're back up again. True, there's a degree of shield damage, but I would rather have the graviton shield ability than this shield inversion.
The Dyson destroyer's console abilities can almost all be replaced by something better - the proton beam/chain thing could be replaced by many other console abilities, such as the isometric pulse which jumps doing MORE damage each time, or the refracting tetryon cascade, or I daresay, the quantum field focus phaser. The Omega class's shield boost thing is just an over-powered transfer shield strength with longer cooldown. I would get transfer shield strength instead - almost as big a shield boost, and a mere 45 sec cooldown! On the other hand, reverse shield polarity grants you pretty much perfect shields for the same duration as this ability! Think about it - the protonic shielding matrix boasts that it 'reinforces your shields for a while' - sounds like reverse shield polarity to me! It's the same thing, just with a fancy name and longer cooldown. And for the last console ability, the shield inversion, I admit that is pretty good, but its one of the only good things about the dyson destroyer, compared to the many advantages of the vesta. Also, I would rather have the immensely powerful graviton shield ability than this brief shield collapse console.
Now for the set bonuses - Would you rather have super-fast quantum slipstream and literally invicibility on the vesta ? Or would you rather have extra shield HP (yeah, we really need that don't we?), a minute knocked off the very long cooldowns, and upgraded rubbish abilities? If you upgrade a poor ability, it can only become average.
I rest my case. Although the vesta line may have slightly lower hull and shields than the dyson destroyer, everything else is far, far better.
Don't you agree?