Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
This is a really huge failing with Cryptic's design culture.
How many times do you guys get into this merrigoround with your customers? This seems to be the answer for everything and it's certainly not typical of a AAA MMO publisher. You guys cut your losses and turn tail on content and features more than any other publisher I can think of.
I like all of the devs as designers and will stick up for you guys on things like Lockboxes (took me awhile to come around) and ARC and a great many controversial things... but at a certain point, we're just left with a big potter's field of abandonware features, factions, systems, and tools.
It's not that you guys have leaked more than other developers. It's not that your customers have entitlement issues. I won't deny that these things happen in doses, sure. But you guys just give up on everything and go running off to whatever shiny object has your attention next which, again, won't get fully developed.
And I suspect some of your co-workers and probably some of your bosses would agree with everything I've just said if not how harshly I put it. I feel like there's this barrier to any kind of meaningful feedback when you guys keep releasing things that aren't ready for primetime and then declare them DOA before they've had a chance.
This is a really huge failing with Cryptic's design culture.
How many times do you guys get into this merrigoround with your customers? This seems to be the answer for everything and it's certainly not typical of a AAA MMO publisher. You guys cut your losses and turn tail on content and features more than any other publisher I can think of.
I like all of the devs as designers and will stick up for you guys on things like Lockboxes (took me awhile to come around) and ARC and a great many controversial things... but at a certain point, we're just left with a big potter's field of abandonware features, factions, systems, and tools.
It's not that you guys have leaked more than other developers. It's not that your customers have entitlement issues. I won't deny that these things happen in doses, sure. But you guys just give up on everything and go running off to whatever shiny object has your attention next which, again, won't get fully developed.
And I suspect some of your co-workers and probably some of your bosses would agree with everything I've just said if not how harshly I put it. I feel like there's this barrier to any kind of meaningful feedback when you guys keep releasing things that aren't ready for primetime and then declare them DOA before they've had a chance.
Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy for failure, no? Release something only partly baked, and then wonder why the taste is off and scrap both the food and the recipe. Although rushing some things might not be entirely under their control, it's still not good policy to just abandon something like that.
I really want this game to be successful, but it feels like the team can make it pretty hard sometimes due to stuff like this.
Well, before anything else you should know that the developers themselves stated that ship interiors are basically gone. They won't rework those since it's too much effort that can't be monetized and I'm not exaggerating. That's what either JamJamz or Tacofangs implied (I think since they are the ones spending most times with us, the forum crowd ). So there won't be love for your ship interior, ever. EDIT: As Tacofangs pointed out, he used different words. My apologies for that.
Whenever I have mustered a smidgen of respect for these devs, their bottom-line mentality makes it all go away again.
Sad Cryptic can't just design stuff for, I dunno, the sheer beauty of it, maybe? Love for the game?
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
Neither is wrong, just different perspectives.
Edit: As for ESD, part of this is the same reason we've revamped early missions recently. Yes, YOU have played that mission a thousand times. But, there are always new players, and making the early parts of the game (including ESD) suck less, so people stick around more and keep playing.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player. And for those later in the game, there's a lot of running to get to some things. Hopefully we can fix some of that.
I'll be honest ESD does need a lot of work to make it feel less confusing to the new players and somewhat a fun place to go too. For me I go there only if I can't get away with doing what I need to do somewhere else.
People might not agree with me but I think the Ship Interior, Exploration Areas, and the Foundry in their current forms should be scrapped. Reason I say this is that certain games out there have developed a dynamic type of event system. Again this is just my opinion on how all these systems which are hardly ever used or liked could be rolled up into something people just wanting to play and get away from the grind itself could do.
As an example of this say the devs want to declare that there is to be a hospital of some kind ran by starfleet against any kind of virus's and other outbreaks occuring in a certain region where combat is taking place a lot. Where this could take into play is this could be a way of the devs to influence their own stories and allow the game to have such thing as non combat roles and offer up new ways to make money like off these revamped kits to where you could have a kit if you are stationed in a medical or science facility. That didn't have combat powers but could allow you to use special abilities to do something thats star trek and feels like it.
A lot of these ideas too are from seeing how neverwinter has deployed the foundry and also looking at all the potential content that could be Cryptic or player made within the vast amount of canon in star trek that pretty much was denied to STO due to a simple layout problem along with advanced in tech since STO was launched. Some of the big factors between NW and STO are when you are progressing through NW you are going to relevant places you need to go to but there are foundry contacts within these locations. STO however lets put a console thingy here incase someone wants to do a foundry mission as they pass by to turn in contraband. In STO the grinds itself and the insert bean pole between locations ppl grind from isn't a good layout. So if you say can't go to ferrenginar to grow corn that has the taste of gold pressed latinum that only grows on ferrenginar there isn't much point in someone being interested in doing a foundry or exploration mission based on that.
So in all scrap exploration, scrap ship interiors, and scrap the foundry. Make a big Cryptic or PWE team to build all these places that should have been in the game when it launched like say maybe the Core federation worlds that Captain Shon kept whining about. KDF colonies and as well did the Federation and the KDF give romulans shovels and tell them to dig a hole to live in... Of course they have offices but do they have homes on their new home? LOL. I guess the common thing between a Corporation making Star Trek and a Corporation making a game about Star Trek the major common ground is that neither of them ever create bathroom or a scene to where hey I gotta drain the dragon or take the cleveland browns to the super bowl.
I am for one wishing there was more interior functionality. I love my conny interior, I wish there was a "HOME" button I could hit and that's where I would end up. If there was a way to give us the LEGO pieces and the 10x20 LEGO base plate to build interiors ourselves, I would jump on it. There's the Foundry tool, but how much can be extended to make social/personal space without the mission building part? As far as bank, exchange and so on... maybe a slot system saying, you can setup a bank access, but not an exchange at the same time... Worried people could build too big of a set? Just give it a budget to keep size down...
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
Neither is wrong, just different perspectives.
Edit: As for ESD, part of this is the same reason we've revamped early missions recently. Yes, YOU have played that mission a thousand times. But, there are always new players, and making the early parts of the game (including ESD) suck less, so people stick around more and keep playing.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player. And for those later in the game, there's a lot of running to get to some things. Hopefully we can fix some of that.
As someone who started very recently I get what you are saying here. I definitely got frustrated having to spend so much time running round ESD.
However, to me the things that are farthest away from the entry point (eg. Bank, Exchange and Security Officer for handing in Contraband) are things that should be available on our ship, from anywhere in the galaxy anyway. So fixing up interiors goes hand in hand with fixing the ESD problem.
This would also mean we'd have to stop wasting an inventory slot carrying the Azure caller around with us.
i said multiple times in other threads, i don't know why they don't copy starfleet command random missions you would get when you went to the unexplored area, you would get things like:
- defending a planet from an asteroid that was about to hit
- giant monsters like the crystalline entity
- fighting random klingons/romulans/whatever in the while dodging black holes and other anomalies
- help setup a new starbase/research station/etc
- explore a planet only to find it was home to some energy beings
- find a derelict fleet in the middle of some weird anomaly and having to rescue the escape pods/fight said anomaly
- find an orion pirate base in the middle of nowhere
- and many other things
its funny how a game made 15 years ago, manages to have better exploration/random events than STO, why can't they just... copy that?
I always liked that in Earth and Beyond you always saw your ship when it was docked at a space station, though I don't know how feasible that would be in STO.
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
Neither is wrong, just different perspectives.
Edit: As for ESD, part of this is the same reason we've revamped early missions recently. Yes, YOU have played that mission a thousand times. But, there are always new players, and making the early parts of the game (including ESD) suck less, so people stick around more and keep playing.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player. And for those later in the game, there's a lot of running to get to some things. Hopefully we can fix some of that.
Ultimately, I'm not really sure it matters what it looks like. I wish the social zones in this game had something resembling a way to be social. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone in Club 47.
You guys are good at designing yet another place to access in-game mail. You guys are bad at giving those places some kind of social functionality, like poker. Even something like a programmed in trivia competition that awards ECs to the winner would be a break through that would make ESD 10x better than an environmental artist could do with unlimited time.
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
Neither is wrong, just different perspectives.
Edit: As for ESD, part of this is the same reason we've revamped early missions recently. Yes, YOU have played that mission a thousand times. But, there are always new players, and making the early parts of the game (including ESD) suck less, so people stick around more and keep playing.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player. And for those later in the game, there's a lot of running to get to some things. Hopefully we can fix some of that.
So basically trophies are to be only available for older ships with large interiors and no new trophies will be added to the game? That's sad.
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, and focusing our efforts on things that do work.
Neither is wrong, just different perspectives.
Edit: As for ESD, part of this is the same reason we've revamped early missions recently. Yes, YOU have played that mission a thousand times. But, there are always new players, and making the early parts of the game (including ESD) suck less, so people stick around more and keep playing.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player. And for those later in the game, there's a lot of running to get to some things. Hopefully we can fix some of that.
Well I certainly appreciate your honest perspective of the situation, and it does make sense. I can also agree that neither perspective is wrong, just different.
I can't speak for new players, but I can tell you the first time I walked into ESD I was wowed, and during the first cosmetic overhaul of ESD I was wowed even more. But that's art aesthetics and trying to press my anecdotal personal experience on a large demographic of players.
As far as ESD being confusing -- you spent time and labor creating better signage to make ESD less confusing. I mean it's now a color-coded circular map where if you run around, it'll only be a matter of time until you inevitably end up where you intended to. And there are signs everywhere and big symbols that show where everything is.
I think it's as idiot-proof as it gets without dumbing ESD even more and simply putting a console in front of the transporter room that has bank/exchange/vendor/tailor/NPC contact/commodity/shipyard access/bridge officer trainer/etc. access so you literally have to walk 10 feet away from the transporter pad and do whatever you need to do at ESD. Now you've just made ESD consist entirely of the transporter room and a console that gives you access to everything.
I can appreciate trying to make things better, and I'm sure whenever ESD is finished (again) I'll be amazed at the art team's talent, skill and hard work. But I'm also sure when I'm looking around I'll be thinking, "If they only did this the first or second time, this talent could have been applied elsewhere to parts of the game that needed it and currently need it."
I'm pretty puzzled here. We're getting a new ESD? Because the one we have is confusing? Really? As has been said, unless you make it one big room or put everything into one easy-access console, I don't see how it could be easier. Everything is laid out in a hub. Even if you can't remember where the bank is, you'll find it if you run around the loop. If part of the redesign is to "up" the "Wow" factor, I think it should be kept in mind that part of the "Wow" is "Wow, this place is BIG!!", so a redesign that makes it "easier to get around" is likely to take away from the "Wow" factor. I don't see how a claim that redesigning ESD will accomplish both won't disappoint in one way or the other.
Really, if a Hub were in need of a redesign, how about 1st City? I don't know about anyone else, but I hate Hate HATE having to pick my way around that place. It is why I alligned my Romulan with ths Federation rather than the KDF. For that matter, DS9 is nice, in that it is a general hub shape, but the majority of the of the features that make it a HUB (mail, exchange ,shipyard, etc) are in spurs off the hub, loosing the convenience of making it a hub. Why not bring it all to the Prominade?
All this aside, I have seen very little in comments about how ESD is too confusing how it isn't grand enough to make one go "Wow!!" I have, however, seen multiple threads asking for ship interiors & missions involving them, and I believe some of them were even started by newer players, the ones supposedly targeted buy a ESD Redesign. Seems that maybe it's something that should be a priority higher than a new ESD.
We're told it is a lot of work to design ship interiors and that is why it isn't going to be practicle to do, especially since there are so many ships out there to consider. My solution is simple. Think about how many decks a starship has. These things are mind-bogglingly HUGE. I think Taco made the commemt about fitting a stadium inside the saucer of a ship. There are a LOT of decks. How many of them can we visit? Very few. So, if we are suddenly called upon to repel a boarding party or find the tribbles overtaking a Jefferies Tube, we go to the turbolift and one of the destination options could be the appropriate location. It doesn't have to involve the decks we have (or DON'T have in the case of my D'Kora) at all! Make any hallways straight** so it is generic as far as layout and if the walls were skin-able, it would be like changing wallpaper to go from a Rom BOP to a KDF Battlecruiser to a Fed Vesta to a Ferengi D'Kora. As time goes by, other missions could be developed using different locations: cargo hold, shuttle bay, etc. Each one using a stock generic map with skins to make it look "right."
** But Bergins, says you: the hallways need to be round, my ship has a saucer! No! says I. What if the mission is in your engineering hull? Circular hallways in a straight section of the ship is a horrible use of space, and for that matter, why the heck is main engineering obvoiusly in the saucer section of our maps when it should, obviously, be in the engineering hull?? So, while we're at it, how about making that it's own destination from the turbolifts?
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Ultimately, I'm not really sure it matters what it looks like. I wish the social zones in this game had something resembling a way to be social. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone in Club 47.
Is that why they put Q in there?:cool:
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Meh, there are different interpretations for everything. You see us giving up on something that COULD work if we kept trying at it. We see us giving up on something that didn't work, ...
I'm sorry, but that's a bit of a circular argument, as the reason interiors don't work is... because you gave up on them!
Interiors could be a big Zen thing for you guys. If you make beautiful bridges (like on Elachi ships, for instance), and ditch the old ESD-style, DX8 graphics bridges, people would flock to buy them. Especially if you made them modular: like upgradable Interior Unlock Projects -- you know, the kind you do for the Starbase/Mine/Embassy. Now, those would be grinds I'd gladly do! And pay good money for too. Build it, and they will come!
Much like Ship 'Costume' Unlock Projects, I think you guys are severely underestimating how much people are willing to invest in looks. Which is to say, you kinda get it half-way: you understand people want to dress up their toons, but then fail to grasp a ship exterior/interior is nothing more than an extension of that selfsame person.
ESD is at it's root, functional. But it fails in a lot of ways. It's confusing. It's not good at imparting that "Star Trek" feel. There's no "wow" moment for a new player.
True. You guys went all-out for the Flotilla, though, which really *is* gorgeous! So, why not do a similar overhaul for ESD? You know, to give that new player that much sought-after 'wow' feeling. Or give us Feds access to the Flotilla (in the latter case, I'd likely never be on ESD any more; which, I realize, causes you to think that this alone is a good reason not to allow it; but you could also take it as an admission, to yourselves, that ESD has become sub-par).
I'm pretty puzzled here. We're getting a new ESD? Because the one we have is confusing? Really? As has been said, unless you make it one big room or put everything into one easy-access console, I don't see how it could be easier.
You'll want to be reeeal careful here. After "switch ships anywhere," making ESD one universal-access-to-everything console might not be such a stretch.
I'm all for having everything from ESD (mail, exchange etc.)on my ship, and Cryptic making a special chat channel called Star fleet/Republic/KDF Subspace as a STO global chat that's only found in your ready room, so when you're in your ready room it would be like being in ESD.
Glad to see some further discussion on the issue and that players feel the same way about it.
Taco, I have a lot of respect for you and BranFlakes walking in here and actually answering questions and at least trying to show the company listens to us. That can not be an easy job with the TRIBBLE we hand you guys at times.
Back on topic though I don't know about anyone else but I am bored and sick to death of ship after ship with the C-Store. The other thing you have done with this is detract from the value of your other ships, the natural T5s of the game and the older C-Store ships. What is the point in spending 2500 zen for that Galaxy as a silver player? The player ends up going for something else and doesn't have much point to spend on another ship again. This is quite frankly the one reason I have stopped using the store. Its also one reason I don't even bother with lockboxes anymore as well. I have already voted with my wallet by saying no thanks.
The DS9, TOS and ENT bundles were absolutely great and I continue to get value out of those if you released a Voyager one for the Delta Quadrant I would buy it, and god knows the Intrepid could use some love to bring it up to the new ship standards. I would buy a TNG (Galaxy needs love too), and Sovereign themed ones too. The doffs, weapons, uniforms and interiors made those packs worth it. dstahl had said that we would get these sometime in the future at one point. The reason the C-Store bridge packs didn't sell that well is they looked like TRIBBLE and people wanted the real thing like we have with the Defiant. I would also buy an Origin Interior if it was completed because it actually looked good.
Even if the interiors didn't get better functionality anytime soon its something I do hope you guys will revisit it and knock our socks off and prove that you guys haven't given up but instead chose to have a breakthrough and improve on a feature that has needed fixing. Given the fact this topic comes up all the time it might be worth paying attention too, and to innovate something useful is by adding features that we can only do in-ship.
On the subject of exploration fixes I can't remember the last time I even visited one of those areas outside of trying to complete the doff assignments for them. Other than that I got very tired of the same TRIBBLE over and over again. Stopped really going there after the currency change and the fact that we didn't get that much for doing it.
Some of us can't help but feel that we aren't being listened to since I haven't seen any complaining about the missions other than bugs or the fact our spacedock is functional as it is and no one has complained about it on the forums. Whereas both of these subjects have kept coming up. Redoing things to us seems like a huge waste of resources when they could be better used to improve features that weren't finished or seem lacking.
Glad to see some further discussion on the issue and that players feel the same way about it.
Taco, I have a lot of respect for you and BranFlakes walking in here and actually answering questions and at least trying to show the company listens to us. That can not be an easy job with the TRIBBLE we hand you guys at times.
Back on topic though I don't know about anyone else but I am bored and sick to death of ship after ship with the C-Store. The other thing you have done with this is detract from the value of your other ships, the natural T5s of the game and the older C-Store ships. What is the point in spending 2500 zen for that Galaxy as a silver player? The player ends up going for something else and doesn't have much point to spend on another ship again. This is quite frankly the one reason I have stopped using the store. Its also one reason I don't even bother with lockboxes anymore as well. I have already voted with my wallet by saying no thanks.
The DS9, TOS and ENT bundles were absolutely great and I continue to get value out of those if you released a Voyager one for the Delta Quadrant I would buy it, and god knows the Intrepid could use some love to bring it up to the new ship standards. I would buy a TNG (Galaxy needs love too), and Sovereign themed ones too. The doffs, weapons, uniforms and interiors made those packs worth it. dstahl had said that we would get these sometime in the future at one point. The reason the C-Store bridge packs didn't sell that well is they looked like TRIBBLE and people wanted the real thing like we have with the Defiant. I would also buy an Origin Interior if it was completed because it actually looked good.
Even if the interiors didn't get better functionality anytime soon its something I do hope you guys will revisit it and knock our socks off and prove that you guys haven't given up but instead chose to have a breakthrough and improve on a feature that has needed fixing. Given the fact this topic comes up all the time it might be worth paying attention too, and to innovate something useful is by adding features that we can only do in-ship.
On the subject of exploration fixes I can't remember the last time I even visited one of those areas outside of trying to complete the doff assignments for them. Other than that I got very tired of the same TRIBBLE over and over again. Stopped really going there after the currency change and the fact that we didn't get that much for doing it.
Some of us can't help but feel that we aren't being listened to since I haven't seen any complaining about the missions other than bugs or the fact our spacedock is functional as it is and no one has complained about it on the forums. Whereas both of these subjects have kept coming up. Redoing things to us seems like a huge waste of resources when they could be better used to improve features that weren't finished or seem lacking.
I can see value in redoing ESD and DS9. Likewise, I can see value in redoing Deferra Borg Invasion and Nukara to be more like the Dyson Battlezone. It's how much value that is the issue.
I see a lot of value in DS9 because:
1 It is a boost for all three factions.
2. The map improvements could apply to fleet holdings
3. It has little value except as a Transwarp hub at the moment.
4. Frankly, I think a number of the missions there are as weak or weaker than some missions that have gotten the axe before. I'd favor gutting and or remastering 5-6+ missions and using an improved station setting as a content hub.
5. Do it right and I can see a fleet holding, one or more reputations, a lot of R&D, and a lot of good content coming out of it. Both at a point where it seems to me that you have some trouble retaining players and as an endgame area that would entice players.
It would mean gutting some stuff and reworking some stuff like the beginning and end of the Dominion FE series.
But you get the basis for, say, a Nor fleet holding, a Mirror Terok Nor STF/battlezone, revised Empok Nor, some reputations... really a whole LOT of content when you start imagining a properly populated Promenade (with full sized restaurants and stores; not just mall kiosks) and a habitat ring. Maybe plus further use of the Bajor ground map.
I also feel like the rewards for that retuning could be fun. Spiral Wave Dual Heavy Cannons. A Cardassian BO. A Terran BO. Mirror hull textures for more ships or mirror shuttles.
Along the way, maybe adding MU Klingon/Cardassian and Cardassian costumes to the Lobi Store and/or proper Ferengi suits and/or the Jake Sisko collection of oddball future fashion. A Dabo revamp, possibly including a Lobi/Latinum merger. Some fun Klingon-themed stuff in the vein of DS9 Klingon episodes and building off some of the station's Klingon flavor.
DS9 could be the foundation for a lot and could also be great for prototyping more lively ship interiors.
We're told it is a lot of work to design ship interiors and that is why it isn't going to be practicle to do, especially since there are so many ships out there to consider. My solution is simple. Think about how many decks a starship has. These things are mind-bogglingly HUGE. I think Taco made the commemt about fitting a stadium inside the saucer of a ship.
There are a LOT of decks. How many of them can we visit? Very few. So, if we are suddenly called upon to repel a boarding party or find the tribbles overtaking a Jefferies Tube, we go to the turbolift and one of the destination options could be the appropriate location. It doesn't have to involve the decks we have (or DON'T have in the case of my D'Kora) at all!
Make any hallways straight** so it is generic as far as layout and if the walls were skin-able, it would be like changing wallpaper to go from a Rom BOP to a KDF Battlecruiser to a Fed Vesta to a Ferengi D'Kora. As time goes by, other missions could be developed using different locations: cargo hold, shuttle bay, etc. Each one using a stock generic map with skins to make it look "right."
** But Bergins, says you: the hallways need to be round, my ship has a saucer! No! says I. What if the mission is in your engineering hull? Circular hallways in a straight section of the ship is a horrible use of space, and for that matter, why the heck is main engineering obvoiusly in the saucer section of our maps when it should, obviously, be in the engineering hull?? So, while we're at it, how about making that it's own destination from the turbolifts?
Still too long? Summary:
1. Ignore current maps, missions take place on other levels in maps that have generic layouts.
2. To start mission, the proper deck will pop up as a choice when you enter the turbolift.
3. Maps have skins, like wallpaper, that make them fit different factions/ships.
4. This also solves the problem for ships that currently have no interior maps.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
You know what? All this flying around in Starships takes too long, and is too confusing. I have a busy life, and don't have time for it. We should just be able to go anywhere, and do anything from the login screen. Optimally, it would be nice if the game could just play itself, then I could just look in from time, to time, to see how it's doing.
Star Trek is primarily based on flying around in a Starship. If you want no starship then maybe check out Stargate Online.
The game actually should be operate as if you are a on a starship, on a planet, or etc concerning timewise. I don't know why Cryptic did not make it so you can log in and log out anytime you want while your character stays in the persistent world. Meaning, you can tell your crew to set a course to whatever. When you get back home from work and/or school it would be possible to login and go from there.
If time is a issue, then they should allow a player to upgrade to warp 14 after several doffs missions or warp core upgrades. If so, they could do something like Sol System with (9 planets) etc.
Ship interiors should be story content and the key to more rapid releases. I don't expect it tomorrow or 9 months from now but I think it's worthy of an expansion centered on it. I favor interiors as reputation, as personal holding, areas as fleet holdings (a state room, for example), as story content, as adventure zone, and as a social hub.
It is a challenge. It's a worthy challenge. I'm thankful Taco came here but this is a feature that probably needs the coordination of every team on the game and planning/coordinating from upper management. It can be hard. I think it's worth it.
It's not as easy as "just do it" and while there are challenges, they aren't impossible ones with some sacrifices and some long term strategic planning.
Foundry interiors are DOA for those not aware. NW's Foundry won't be getting ported to STO.
My solution to the multiple interiors is to build the content to the interior. nYou don't need to remake the same missions for the Belfast interior that the standard or TOS interior get. It also doesn't need to be strictly factioned.
What I think works is to have mission chains, for example, that use the Belfast interior. If you have this interior on your ship, you can launch these from your bridge. If you don't, you can visit a friend who does or track down a Defiant family class patrol ship in the open world and play these missions aboard an NPC Defiant.
This model could also allow for gradual development of three deck interiors for all types of ship because developing a full Wells/Mobius interior, for example, is no longer strictly for the lockbox players. Developing a full Orion, Gorn, Dominion, alternate Klingon, etc. interior is no longer just for people who fly those ships.
It becomes something tied to ships of that type in the open world. Again, using a Nimbus/Dyson Battlezone/etc. model and a feature episode model.
Ship interiors become a new setting for Featured Episodes and adventure zones, for fleet holdings, for personal holdings. That's how you do it.
What you are asking is for paid mission content (special missions exclusive to individual ship interiors, including special C-Store bridges/interiors), which is not something that I think many players would actively support, and not something that would fit with Cryptic's plans. Also it sounds a little odd, but I know there would probably be players switching around their ship interiors on the same ship just to get "all" the content, not just the content that happens to fit the interior they choose for themselves.
why do i always have to go to ESD to change my outfit dont recall one captain in TV ever having to go back to ESD to get a new one or just to change out of a old one change a ship i get but now dont got to do that with change ship on the fly now.........exchange i get also but we now have tuff's and such that can do that why not a starship ??????
It's a facetious reference to one of Tacofang's reasons for revamping ESD. Too much running around. I'm continuously amused, by people who come forward with requests like " Dear developers, please remove (X) as it takes too much time to do, and I have limited time to play videogames every week". Well, who's fault is that? Maybe an MMO isn't your best suit. Try something you can play for 10 minutes, like Candy Crush Land.
It's the equivalent of saying "I can't conform to the rules, so please make the rules conform to me".
and this why we really have a rep system because i cant play but a few hours a week and never got MK 12 set.........
Comments
This is a really huge failing with Cryptic's design culture.
How many times do you guys get into this merrigoround with your customers? This seems to be the answer for everything and it's certainly not typical of a AAA MMO publisher. You guys cut your losses and turn tail on content and features more than any other publisher I can think of.
I like all of the devs as designers and will stick up for you guys on things like Lockboxes (took me awhile to come around) and ARC and a great many controversial things... but at a certain point, we're just left with a big potter's field of abandonware features, factions, systems, and tools.
It's not that you guys have leaked more than other developers. It's not that your customers have entitlement issues. I won't deny that these things happen in doses, sure. But you guys just give up on everything and go running off to whatever shiny object has your attention next which, again, won't get fully developed.
And I suspect some of your co-workers and probably some of your bosses would agree with everything I've just said if not how harshly I put it. I feel like there's this barrier to any kind of meaningful feedback when you guys keep releasing things that aren't ready for primetime and then declare them DOA before they've had a chance.
Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy for failure, no? Release something only partly baked, and then wonder why the taste is off and scrap both the food and the recipe. Although rushing some things might not be entirely under their control, it's still not good policy to just abandon something like that.
I really want this game to be successful, but it feels like the team can make it pretty hard sometimes due to stuff like this.
Whenever I have mustered a smidgen of respect for these devs, their bottom-line mentality makes it all go away again.
Sad Cryptic can't just design stuff for, I dunno, the sheer beauty of it, maybe? Love for the game?
I'll be honest ESD does need a lot of work to make it feel less confusing to the new players and somewhat a fun place to go too. For me I go there only if I can't get away with doing what I need to do somewhere else.
People might not agree with me but I think the Ship Interior, Exploration Areas, and the Foundry in their current forms should be scrapped. Reason I say this is that certain games out there have developed a dynamic type of event system. Again this is just my opinion on how all these systems which are hardly ever used or liked could be rolled up into something people just wanting to play and get away from the grind itself could do.
As an example of this say the devs want to declare that there is to be a hospital of some kind ran by starfleet against any kind of virus's and other outbreaks occuring in a certain region where combat is taking place a lot. Where this could take into play is this could be a way of the devs to influence their own stories and allow the game to have such thing as non combat roles and offer up new ways to make money like off these revamped kits to where you could have a kit if you are stationed in a medical or science facility. That didn't have combat powers but could allow you to use special abilities to do something thats star trek and feels like it.
A lot of these ideas too are from seeing how neverwinter has deployed the foundry and also looking at all the potential content that could be Cryptic or player made within the vast amount of canon in star trek that pretty much was denied to STO due to a simple layout problem along with advanced in tech since STO was launched. Some of the big factors between NW and STO are when you are progressing through NW you are going to relevant places you need to go to but there are foundry contacts within these locations. STO however lets put a console thingy here incase someone wants to do a foundry mission as they pass by to turn in contraband. In STO the grinds itself and the insert bean pole between locations ppl grind from isn't a good layout. So if you say can't go to ferrenginar to grow corn that has the taste of gold pressed latinum that only grows on ferrenginar there isn't much point in someone being interested in doing a foundry or exploration mission based on that.
So in all scrap exploration, scrap ship interiors, and scrap the foundry. Make a big Cryptic or PWE team to build all these places that should have been in the game when it launched like say maybe the Core federation worlds that Captain Shon kept whining about. KDF colonies and as well did the Federation and the KDF give romulans shovels and tell them to dig a hole to live in... Of course they have offices but do they have homes on their new home? LOL. I guess the common thing between a Corporation making Star Trek and a Corporation making a game about Star Trek the major common ground is that neither of them ever create bathroom or a scene to where hey I gotta drain the dragon or take the cleveland browns to the super bowl.
Thanks
As someone who started very recently I get what you are saying here. I definitely got frustrated having to spend so much time running round ESD.
However, to me the things that are farthest away from the entry point (eg. Bank, Exchange and Security Officer for handing in Contraband) are things that should be available on our ship, from anywhere in the galaxy anyway. So fixing up interiors goes hand in hand with fixing the ESD problem.
This would also mean we'd have to stop wasting an inventory slot carrying the Azure caller around with us.
- defending a planet from an asteroid that was about to hit
- giant monsters like the crystalline entity
- fighting random klingons/romulans/whatever in the while dodging black holes and other anomalies
- help setup a new starbase/research station/etc
- explore a planet only to find it was home to some energy beings
- find a derelict fleet in the middle of some weird anomaly and having to rescue the escape pods/fight said anomaly
- find an orion pirate base in the middle of nowhere
- and many other things
its funny how a game made 15 years ago, manages to have better exploration/random events than STO, why can't they just... copy that?
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Ultimately, I'm not really sure it matters what it looks like. I wish the social zones in this game had something resembling a way to be social. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone in Club 47.
You guys are good at designing yet another place to access in-game mail. You guys are bad at giving those places some kind of social functionality, like poker. Even something like a programmed in trivia competition that awards ECs to the winner would be a break through that would make ESD 10x better than an environmental artist could do with unlimited time.
So basically trophies are to be only available for older ships with large interiors and no new trophies will be added to the game? That's sad.
One answers
Y U No give me answer i want...you Wrong me right Me know more than you
Then you guys wonder why they don't come on the forums anymore.
Well I certainly appreciate your honest perspective of the situation, and it does make sense. I can also agree that neither perspective is wrong, just different.
I can't speak for new players, but I can tell you the first time I walked into ESD I was wowed, and during the first cosmetic overhaul of ESD I was wowed even more. But that's art aesthetics and trying to press my anecdotal personal experience on a large demographic of players.
As far as ESD being confusing -- you spent time and labor creating better signage to make ESD less confusing. I mean it's now a color-coded circular map where if you run around, it'll only be a matter of time until you inevitably end up where you intended to. And there are signs everywhere and big symbols that show where everything is.
I think it's as idiot-proof as it gets without dumbing ESD even more and simply putting a console in front of the transporter room that has bank/exchange/vendor/tailor/NPC contact/commodity/shipyard access/bridge officer trainer/etc. access so you literally have to walk 10 feet away from the transporter pad and do whatever you need to do at ESD. Now you've just made ESD consist entirely of the transporter room and a console that gives you access to everything.
I can appreciate trying to make things better, and I'm sure whenever ESD is finished (again) I'll be amazed at the art team's talent, skill and hard work. But I'm also sure when I'm looking around I'll be thinking, "If they only did this the first or second time, this talent could have been applied elsewhere to parts of the game that needed it and currently need it."
Really, if a Hub were in need of a redesign, how about 1st City? I don't know about anyone else, but I hate Hate HATE having to pick my way around that place. It is why I alligned my Romulan with ths Federation rather than the KDF. For that matter, DS9 is nice, in that it is a general hub shape, but the majority of the of the features that make it a HUB (mail, exchange ,shipyard, etc) are in spurs off the hub, loosing the convenience of making it a hub. Why not bring it all to the Prominade?
All this aside, I have seen very little in comments about how ESD is too confusing how it isn't grand enough to make one go "Wow!!" I have, however, seen multiple threads asking for ship interiors & missions involving them, and I believe some of them were even started by newer players, the ones supposedly targeted buy a ESD Redesign. Seems that maybe it's something that should be a priority higher than a new ESD.
We're told it is a lot of work to design ship interiors and that is why it isn't going to be practicle to do, especially since there are so many ships out there to consider. My solution is simple. Think about how many decks a starship has. These things are mind-bogglingly HUGE. I think Taco made the commemt about fitting a stadium inside the saucer of a ship. There are a LOT of decks. How many of them can we visit? Very few. So, if we are suddenly called upon to repel a boarding party or find the tribbles overtaking a Jefferies Tube, we go to the turbolift and one of the destination options could be the appropriate location. It doesn't have to involve the decks we have (or DON'T have in the case of my D'Kora) at all! Make any hallways straight** so it is generic as far as layout and if the walls were skin-able, it would be like changing wallpaper to go from a Rom BOP to a KDF Battlecruiser to a Fed Vesta to a Ferengi D'Kora. As time goes by, other missions could be developed using different locations: cargo hold, shuttle bay, etc. Each one using a stock generic map with skins to make it look "right."
** But Bergins, says you: the hallways need to be round, my ship has a saucer! No! says I. What if the mission is in your engineering hull? Circular hallways in a straight section of the ship is a horrible use of space, and for that matter, why the heck is main engineering obvoiusly in the saucer section of our maps when it should, obviously, be in the engineering hull?? So, while we're at it, how about making that it's own destination from the turbolifts?
I'm sorry, but that's a bit of a circular argument, as the reason interiors don't work is... because you gave up on them!
Interiors could be a big Zen thing for you guys. If you make beautiful bridges (like on Elachi ships, for instance), and ditch the old ESD-style, DX8 graphics bridges, people would flock to buy them. Especially if you made them modular: like upgradable Interior Unlock Projects -- you know, the kind you do for the Starbase/Mine/Embassy. Now, those would be grinds I'd gladly do! And pay good money for too. Build it, and they will come!
Much like Ship 'Costume' Unlock Projects, I think you guys are severely underestimating how much people are willing to invest in looks. Which is to say, you kinda get it half-way: you understand people want to dress up their toons, but then fail to grasp a ship exterior/interior is nothing more than an extension of that selfsame person.
True. You guys went all-out for the Flotilla, though, which really *is* gorgeous! So, why not do a similar overhaul for ESD? You know, to give that new player that much sought-after 'wow' feeling. Or give us Feds access to the Flotilla (in the latter case, I'd likely never be on ESD any more; which, I realize, causes you to think that this alone is a good reason not to allow it; but you could also take it as an admission, to yourselves, that ESD has become sub-par).
You'll want to be reeeal careful here. After "switch ships anywhere," making ESD one universal-access-to-everything console might not be such a stretch.
but that's just me
Taco, I have a lot of respect for you and BranFlakes walking in here and actually answering questions and at least trying to show the company listens to us. That can not be an easy job with the TRIBBLE we hand you guys at times.
Back on topic though I don't know about anyone else but I am bored and sick to death of ship after ship with the C-Store. The other thing you have done with this is detract from the value of your other ships, the natural T5s of the game and the older C-Store ships. What is the point in spending 2500 zen for that Galaxy as a silver player? The player ends up going for something else and doesn't have much point to spend on another ship again. This is quite frankly the one reason I have stopped using the store. Its also one reason I don't even bother with lockboxes anymore as well. I have already voted with my wallet by saying no thanks.
The DS9, TOS and ENT bundles were absolutely great and I continue to get value out of those if you released a Voyager one for the Delta Quadrant I would buy it, and god knows the Intrepid could use some love to bring it up to the new ship standards. I would buy a TNG (Galaxy needs love too), and Sovereign themed ones too. The doffs, weapons, uniforms and interiors made those packs worth it. dstahl had said that we would get these sometime in the future at one point. The reason the C-Store bridge packs didn't sell that well is they looked like TRIBBLE and people wanted the real thing like we have with the Defiant. I would also buy an Origin Interior if it was completed because it actually looked good.
Even if the interiors didn't get better functionality anytime soon its something I do hope you guys will revisit it and knock our socks off and prove that you guys haven't given up but instead chose to have a breakthrough and improve on a feature that has needed fixing. Given the fact this topic comes up all the time it might be worth paying attention too, and to innovate something useful is by adding features that we can only do in-ship.
On the subject of exploration fixes I can't remember the last time I even visited one of those areas outside of trying to complete the doff assignments for them. Other than that I got very tired of the same TRIBBLE over and over again. Stopped really going there after the currency change and the fact that we didn't get that much for doing it.
Some of us can't help but feel that we aren't being listened to since I haven't seen any complaining about the missions other than bugs or the fact our spacedock is functional as it is and no one has complained about it on the forums. Whereas both of these subjects have kept coming up. Redoing things to us seems like a huge waste of resources when they could be better used to improve features that weren't finished or seem lacking.
I can see value in redoing ESD and DS9. Likewise, I can see value in redoing Deferra Borg Invasion and Nukara to be more like the Dyson Battlezone. It's how much value that is the issue.
I see a lot of value in DS9 because:
1 It is a boost for all three factions.
2. The map improvements could apply to fleet holdings
3. It has little value except as a Transwarp hub at the moment.
4. Frankly, I think a number of the missions there are as weak or weaker than some missions that have gotten the axe before. I'd favor gutting and or remastering 5-6+ missions and using an improved station setting as a content hub.
5. Do it right and I can see a fleet holding, one or more reputations, a lot of R&D, and a lot of good content coming out of it. Both at a point where it seems to me that you have some trouble retaining players and as an endgame area that would entice players.
It would mean gutting some stuff and reworking some stuff like the beginning and end of the Dominion FE series.
But you get the basis for, say, a Nor fleet holding, a Mirror Terok Nor STF/battlezone, revised Empok Nor, some reputations... really a whole LOT of content when you start imagining a properly populated Promenade (with full sized restaurants and stores; not just mall kiosks) and a habitat ring. Maybe plus further use of the Bajor ground map.
I also feel like the rewards for that retuning could be fun. Spiral Wave Dual Heavy Cannons. A Cardassian BO. A Terran BO. Mirror hull textures for more ships or mirror shuttles.
Along the way, maybe adding MU Klingon/Cardassian and Cardassian costumes to the Lobi Store and/or proper Ferengi suits and/or the Jake Sisko collection of oddball future fashion. A Dabo revamp, possibly including a Lobi/Latinum merger. Some fun Klingon-themed stuff in the vein of DS9 Klingon episodes and building off some of the station's Klingon flavor.
DS9 could be the foundation for a lot and could also be great for prototyping more lively ship interiors.
So, here it is again. Still too long? Summary:
1. Ignore current maps, missions take place on other levels in maps that have generic layouts.
2. To start mission, the proper deck will pop up as a choice when you enter the turbolift.
3. Maps have skins, like wallpaper, that make them fit different factions/ships.
4. This also solves the problem for ships that currently have no interior maps.
My old, now-unstickied visual trophy guide hasn't had anything to update it with since March 5, 2011 (The "No Kill I" trophy)
Raptr profile
Star Trek is primarily based on flying around in a Starship. If you want no starship then maybe check out Stargate Online.
The game actually should be operate as if you are a on a starship, on a planet, or etc concerning timewise. I don't know why Cryptic did not make it so you can log in and log out anytime you want while your character stays in the persistent world. Meaning, you can tell your crew to set a course to whatever. When you get back home from work and/or school it would be possible to login and go from there.
If time is a issue, then they should allow a player to upgrade to warp 14 after several doffs missions or warp core upgrades. If so, they could do something like Sol System with (9 planets) etc.
What you are asking is for paid mission content (special missions exclusive to individual ship interiors, including special C-Store bridges/interiors), which is not something that I think many players would actively support, and not something that would fit with Cryptic's plans. Also it sounds a little odd, but I know there would probably be players switching around their ship interiors on the same ship just to get "all" the content, not just the content that happens to fit the interior they choose for themselves.
Raptr profile
system Lord Baal is dead
and this why we really have a rep system because i cant play but a few hours a week and never got MK 12 set.........
system Lord Baal is dead