The whole "docking ring area" as it exists now is non-canon. That wouldn't be THAT bad, but it also looks totally out of place and absolutely not like DS9 (artwork, dimensions, layout, etc.).
Personally I think "canon" should always be a starting point rather than an unchangeable law and I have no problems with how The Promenade looks 35 years after we last saw it. (If anything, ESD needs to be completely replaced with a more modern station given the monster size of ships now, but a revamp will have to do.)
However, you're right about the mission maps. They look nothing like a map set in a circular structure. If anything needs remastering, it's the DS9 outer ring and Empok Nor maps.
Personally I think "canon" should always be a starting point rather than an unchangeable law and I have no problems with how The Promenade looks 35 years after we last saw it. (If anything, ESD needs to be completely replaced with a more modern station given the monster size of ships now, but a revamp will have to do.)
However, you're right about the mission maps. They look nothing like a map set in a circular structure. If anything needs remastering, it's the DS9 outer ring and Empok Nor maps.
Tacofangs indicated, that IF and WHEN Cryptic revisits the DS9 interior, it would be a total redesign from the ground up; not just a minor/moderate revamp of the existing map. In that case, they would almost certainly get rid of those nasty rooms. I mean, where would they be, if you imagine the Promenade as the inner ring around Ops?? They'd hang in open space somewhere between the habitat ring and the central core. Those two rooms come from a time, when Cryptic had a different design philosophy: We kinda need a room there, so we just spawn it right there. Period. Other interiors from that time are the old FED ship interiors and the interior maps of K7 or the U.S.S. DeWitt. Ugly, illogical, "non-trekky", confusing.
The whole "docking ring area" as it exists now is non-canon. That wouldn't be THAT bad, but it also looks totally out of place and absolutely not like DS9 (artwork, dimensions, layout, etc.). Those clumsily added extra rooms on both sides of the Promenade-ring in the current DS9 map (shipyard and bank/exchange) should definitely not be part of any revamped DS9-interior.
Agreed. I think the room with the banks should be completely removed (per my OP), and the docking bay should be radically altered, and accessible only by turbolift, just like OPs is. This would let them make something that looks more DS9-like.
In addition to the missing canon locations (infirmary, security office/brig, Garak's shop, etc.), any redesigned DS9-interior should have the center of the Promenade-ring filled with Quark's Bar, Grill, Gaming House and Holosuite Arcade (in the SAME instance, i.e., part of the SAME map, as the rest of the promenade).
Keeping Quark's in its own mini instance could have some advantages:
I'm not actually sure that the Quark's interior would fit inside the Promenade as-is (even if you remove the ugly ramp).
If the mini-instance allows both Quark's and the rest of the station to each have a high player population, it might be worth doing (not that Quark's currently has a lot of player traffic, but we can dream).
If either of those conditions apply, I think you could justify preserving the mini-instance. If they don't, then I completely agree with you.
The incredibly clumsy and ugly "staircase" connecting the different levels within Quark's has to be annihilated (i.e., not be part of any newly made map, of course), however it will be a challenge for the designers to accommodate access to the upper levels via the narrow and tiny corkscrew stairs. The only way popping to my small mind, would be to just make the corkscrew stairs interactive, i.e., you click on them, and then your character automatically uses them. Either this is then animated, or your avatar just re-appears on the other end of the stairs (would save the time to generate those rather intricate animations). The same would have to be done for access to the upper level of the Promenade (to which the 2nd level of Quark's is connected to as well). The current system with the elevators artificially splits the map up, resulting in virtually no one roaming the upper level, therefore preventing this awesome place to be "alive".
I completely agree that clickable spiral staircases are the way to go. I'd be fine if they weren't animated at all, and just worked the way the DS9 turbolifts do when you go from the main level Promenade to the 2nd level.
I do think the main reason no one visits the 2nd level of the Promenade isn't the turbolifts splitting the map, so much as the fact that there's nothing to do up there.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Agreed. I think the room with the banks should be completely removed (per my OP), and the docking bay should be radically altered, and accessible only by turbolift, just like OPs is. This would let them make something that looks more DS9-like.
Keeping Quark's in its own mini instance could have some advantages:
I'm not actually sure that the Quark's interior would fit inside the Promenade as-is (even if you remove the ugly ramp).
If the mini-instance allows both Quark's and the rest of the station to each have a high player population, it might be worth doing (not that Quark's currently has a lot of player traffic, but we can dream).
If either of those conditions apply, I think you could justify preserving the mini-instance. If they don't, then I completely agree with you.
I completely agree that clickable spiral staircases are the way to go. I'd be fine if they weren't animated at all, and just worked the way the DS9 turbolifts do when you go from the main level Promenade to the 2nd level.
I do think the main reason no one visits the 2nd level of the Promenade isn't the turbolifts splitting the map, so much as the fact that there's nothing to do up there.
True.
As for Quark's: Quark's and its sound environment (Dabo-shouts, random music etc) is an integral part of the Promenade on DS9. Artificially separating that from each other just cannot transport the actual feel of the show, no matter how well you model the whole map otherwise. I'd be surprised if Quark's (minus that staircase of doom) wouldn't fit in the center of any redesigned Promenade. Its actual ground area is not that large (even the enlarged STO-version).
I wouldn't expect the 2nd floor to be suddenly super-populated, but if it could be reached with a single click (corkscrew staircase) instead of two (elevators --> select Ops or upper level), from more easily recognizable locations (stairs by each Promenade-bridge, and not just 2 hard-to-find elevator-doors), I foresee it to be a much more lively area. Making it inaccessible altogether and just have some wandering NPCs populate it (like the bridges on Bajor) could also be an option, however, then players could not enjoy its fantastic vista of the wormhole.
Looking at that, I think the designers for the PC game "Deep Space Nine: The Fallen" used those blueprints exactly, they just added a couple extra rooms so they could have Keiko's class room and Garak's shop.
Great game, if you can find it buy it. Works fine on Win 7 64bit when running in Compatibility Mode.
One "inaccuracy" in those blueprints is that the holding cells were shown to be directly attached to the Security Office in the actual episodes. That may be where they built the set for the holding cells on the soundstage, but it's not where it was depicted to be on-screen.
That actually frees up another potential place to stick the transporter room. The Technical Manual schematic places the schoolroom in that location.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The holding cells were there, the Classroom was there, Garak's was there, The Assay office was there. Probably other things I'm not thinking of. That spot was the general multipurpose room of the show.
The holding cells were there, the Classroom was there, Garak's was there, The Assay office was there. Probably other things I'm not thinking of. That spot was the general multipurpose room of the show.
That makes sense. None of those sets were used very frequently, so they didn't need to be permanent.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Well only half the promenade was built, so use it for the most important location (the security offices) and put Garaks and the classroom on the otherside of the promenade.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well only half the promenade was built, so use it for the most important location (the security offices) and put Garaks and the classroom on the otherside of the promenade.
Yeah, there are plenty of "empty" spaces on the Promenade where locations which shared sets could be slotted.
To clarify though, the Security Office did have a permanent set...it's just that the holding cells had a separate location on the Promenade soundstage, even though the series depicted them as being attached to Odo's office.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Of course, there's no point in having Garak's shop nor Keiko's old classroom now. But Odo's office should still be in use after three decades.
Yeah, Garak's shop would be gone now, or perhaps franchised out to Mo'Neke (we all know how fond Cryptic, and yes, the playerbase, are of name-dropping).
Keiko was forced to shut the school down during the Dominion War, but one could have re-opened. I would presume that there are still station personnel and residents who have children.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Yeah, Garak's shop would be gone now, or perhaps franchised out to Mo'Neke (we all know how fond Cryptic, and yes, the playerbase, are of name-dropping).
Keiko was forced to shut the school down during the Dominion War, but one could have re-opened. I would presume that there are still station personnel and residents who have children.
Just put the current tailor in old Garak's shop, and say she kept it the same in honor of Garak.
Taco, I know ESD needs a revamp first. But, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't you guys revamping the Borg/Undine Arc? I know you guys will probably redo the Romulan mission (if only to get rid of Divide Et Impera), so why not justify redoing the Cardie arc (which while fun is very unpolished and cross factioned) and make the new DS9 part of that revamp.
Deep Space Nine was the Max Level Hub in this game. I think it should remain so and as such, I would like to make a few suggestions though:
Quark's, if intergrated needs to have tables on the second floor of the promendade, we saw the cast eat there on ocassion and would add life to second floor.
The Second Floor needs uses. Maybe a few diplo/Maurading CXP dailies where you help out a cafe owner or something?
Unique Vendors: DS9 is the second most popular social zone already. And since its the gateway to the Gamma Quadrant as well as home to the Bajorans, Cardies, and Ferasans on the AQ side. Give us some unique items that can only be bought here like say some consumables unique to the region (like a Ferasan Nepeta stimulant).
Habitat Ring/Docking Ring PVE. Build the zones for use in the social map but then use them for a search and destroy PVE where you have to seek out a Changeling infiltrator like Sisko and Kira did in "Way of the Warrior."
Have the wormhole disappear and appear like in Space. It bothers me that its always on in DS9 atm. Some times I'd like to see just black space.
The conference room on the Habitat Ring should be accessable. Maybe have a special Daily Assignment officer in there. You'll get to do a daily on the DS9 maps giving some minor functionality and rewards for doing so.
STAIRCASES. Sorry, they're a must have for me. I dont mind having turbolifts around, but they should be the DS9 open cage ones IMO. Besides that the staircases are big part of DS9's aesthetics.
GPL Usage HUB. Quark has his hands on everything on DS9 and GPL was the money of choice in these parts. Perhaps the merchants could use Latinum instead of Energy Credits on DS9. Wouldn't hurt Quark's profit margin if it meant more people were hitting the Dabo Table. Its a minor thing but it might make DS9 stand out a bit more.
Seek the Prophets: we have an Orb on DS9. Why not have the player meditate on it and get a buff like the bloodwine on the KDF Starbase? Its a little thing but its a cool idea.
I'll be honest, I'm very passionate about a DS9 revamp. My first act upon completing the Tutorial in STO was to head to DS9. I would love for the zone to reach its full potential.
Taco, I know ESD needs a revamp first. But, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't you guys revamping the Borg/Undine Arc? I know you guys will probably redo the Romulan mission (if only to get rid of Divide Et Impera), so why not justify redoing the Cardie arc (which while fun is very unpolished and cross factioned) and make the new DS9 part of that revamp.
Deep Space Nine was the Max Level Hub in this game. I think it should remain so and as such, I would like to make a few suggestions though:
Quark's, if intergrated needs to have tables on the second floor of the promendade, we saw the cast eat there on ocassion and would add life to second floor.
The Second Floor needs uses. Maybe a few diplo/Maurading CXP dailies where you help out a cafe owner or something?
Unique Vendors: DS9 is the second most popular social zone already. And since its the gateway to the Gamma Quadrant as well as home to the Bajorans, Cardies, and Ferasans on the AQ side. Give us some unique items that can only be bought here like say some consumables unique to the region (like a Ferasan Nepeta stimulant).
Habitat Ring/Docking Ring PVE. Build the zones for use in the social map but then use them for a search and destroy PVE where you have to seek out a Changeling infiltrator like Sisko and Kira did in "Way of the Warrior."
Have the wormhole disappear and appear like in Space. It bothers me that its always on in DS9 atm. Some times I'd like to see just black space.
The conference room on the Habitat Ring should be accessable. Maybe have a special Daily Assignment officer in there. You'll get to do a daily on the DS9 maps giving some minor functionality and rewards for doing so.
STAIRCASES. Sorry, they're a must have for me. I dont mind having turbolifts around, but they should be the DS9 open cage ones IMO. Besides that the staircases are big part of DS9's aesthetics.
GPL Usage HUB. Quark has his hands on everything on DS9 and GPL was the money of choice in these parts. Perhaps the merchants could use Latinum instead of Energy Credits on DS9. Wouldn't hurt Quark's profit margin if it meant more people were hitting the Dabo Table. Its a minor thing but it might make DS9 stand out a bit more.
Seek the Prophets: we have an Orb on DS9. Why not have the player meditate on it and get a buff like the bloodwine on the KDF Starbase? Its a little thing but its a cool idea.
I'll be honest, I'm very passionate about a DS9 revamp. My first act upon completing the Tutorial in STO was to head to DS9. I would love for the zone to reach its full potential.
All of this has been suggested before. Of course it is just logical to assume that after the Klingon War and Borg/Undine arcs, the Devs will proceed with a revamp of the Romulan and Cardassian arcs.
However: As tacofangs noted before, if anything happens to the DS9 interior it'll be a complete rebuild from scratch. This takes a lot of time. According to the recent interviews, the Klingon War retouch took one Dev ~3 days per mission. The upcoming Borg/Undine revamp is allocated "FOUR TIMES as much time", i.e., at least ~2 weeks per mission (although they will probably kick a mission out --> ~10-12 weeks total). Now, a complete DS9 rebuild, including all these things suggested here, would take several Devs from different departments several weeks AT LEAST. I am not sure it would automatically go hand in hand with a Cardie-arc revamp/retouch. Let's assume there will be a Season 9.5, and it sees a Klingon War-style minor-moderate retouch of the Romulan Mystery-arc, then Season 10 COULD be the right time for a Cardie-revamp/retouch... OR the swap both arcs, although I think Cryptic would place greater importance on the Romulan arc for now.
Anyways, rebuilding DS9 SHOULD go hand in hand with a retouch/revamp of the Cardassian story-arc as it would give players more incentive to actually visit the new station several times - if you put that much effort into a map, you wanna maximize its usage (possibly also change the missions, so more of them takes places ON the station: Make the redundant diplomacy missions "Temple Offerings" and "Standoff" part of the regular storyline and move the latter from your own ship's Obs. deck to DS9 conference room; "Crack in Mirror" could be moved from DS9's cargo ring to the Promenade)
The Cardassian Story arc in STO is terribly terrible, and I try to skip it on alts if I can. Hopefully they revamp it and take that opportunity to rebuild DS9 as well.
The Cardassian Story arc in STO is terribly terrible, and I try to skip it on alts if I can. Hopefully they revamp it and take that opportunity to rebuild DS9 as well.
For the most part: Agreed, although one or two missions have a neat story, e.g., Seeds of Dissent. The whole Mirror Universe thing, however, seems a bit out of place. In general the arc is lacking any cohesion or red thread to follow.
For the most part: Agreed, although one or two missions have a neat story, e.g., Seeds of Dissent. The whole Mirror Universe thing, however, seems a bit out of place. In general the arc is lacking any cohesion or red thread to follow.
I would favor replacing all those "station under siege/Kurland is incompetent" missions with DS9 redone as an adventure zone somewhat like Nimbus. Obviously, you'd need to tweak the model somewhat, though.
I would favor replacing all those "station under siege/Kurland is incompetent" missions with DS9 redone as an adventure zone somewhat like Nimbus. Obviously, you'd need to tweak the model somewhat, though.
I concur. DS9 would make a great adventure zone. The Promenade/OPs would be like Paradise City, the social area. The Habitat Ring and Conference Room could be the daily areas. The Docking Ring and the Cargo Bays would be the areas of highest risk where smugglers are trying to sneak things on board and could risk a firefight if you aren't able to catch them with high enough espionage or diplomacy/marauding. And then certain areas of the station like the Power Core (which was visited in a Cardie arc mission where an Undine tries to sabotage the power supply) are "restricted" and can only be accessed during certain missions. It would also help to have the giant map for The 2800 Featured Episode Series. Imagine Second Wave if you had to run from the Conference Room all the way to the docking pylon. Thats a helluva a gauntlet run and I think would be a lot of fun.
I concur. DS9 would make a great adventure zone. The Promenade/OPs would be like Paradise City, the social area. The Habitat Ring and Conference Room could be the daily areas. The Docking Ring and the Cargo Bays would be the areas of highest risk where smugglers are trying to sneak things on board and could risk a firefight if you aren't able to catch them with high enough espionage or diplomacy/marauding. And then certain areas of the station like the Power Core (which was visited in a Cardie arc mission where an Undine tries to sabotage the power supply) are "restricted" and can only be accessed during certain missions. It would also help to have the giant map for The 2800 Featured Episode Series. Imagine Second Wave if you had to run from the Conference Room all the way to the docking pylon. Thats a helluva a gauntlet run and I think would be a lot of fun.
Although the general idea is nice, I kinda dislike the notion of having constant firefights on DS9. This is NOT Nimbus III or an invasion zone (yet). Also, what repeatable daily content would you possibly offer in the small conference lounge? A console clicky?^^
Having to fight smugglers in the docking ring sounds more like a rag-tag smuggler station and not like one of the Federation's most important starbases... Shooting a few Cardassian moles here and there, that would be credible... but not very "epic". Eventually, "Adventure Zone" might be too much, rather a "hub with many little quests", smth like a Hathon/Bajor 2.0 ...
If anything Cardassia Prime itself might be the perfect place for a Star Trek: Deep Space Nine-themed adventure zone in the FAR future (ST: Voyager obviously comes first in STO). Cardassia, still suffering from the Dominion occupation and bombardment, with all its shady alleys, gangs looking for anything they can get, political intrigues, True Way propaganda etc etc etc....
Although the general idea is nice, I kinda dislike the notion of having constant firefights on DS9. This is NOT Nimbus III or an invasion zone (yet). Also, what repeatable daily content would you possibly offer in the small conference lounge? A console clicky?^^
Having to fight smugglers in the docking ring sounds more like a rag-tag smuggler station and not like one of the Federation's most important starbases... Shooting a few Cardassian moles here and there, that would be credible... but not very "epic". Eventually, "Adventure Zone" might be too much, rather a "hub with many little quests", smth like a Hathon/Bajor 2.0 ...
If anything Cardassia Prime itself might be the perfect place for a Star Trek: Deep Space Nine-themed adventure zone in the FAR future (ST: Voyager obviously comes first in STO). Cardassia, still suffering from the Dominion occupation and bombardment, with all its shady alleys, gangs looking for anything they can get, political intrigues, True Way propaganda etc etc etc....
This is where you'd need some nuance. One option would be a separate adventure zone instance that you get shifted over to at certain points in missions.
Although the general idea is nice, I kinda dislike the notion of having constant firefights on DS9. This is NOT Nimbus III or an invasion zone (yet). Also, what repeatable daily content would you possibly offer in the small conference lounge? A console clicky?^^
Having to fight smugglers in the docking ring sounds more like a rag-tag smuggler station and not like one of the Federation's most important starbases... Shooting a few Cardassian moles here and there, that would be credible... but not very "epic". Eventually, "Adventure Zone" might be too much, rather a "hub with many little quests", smth like a Hathon/Bajor 2.0 ...
If anything Cardassia Prime itself might be the perfect place for a Star Trek: Deep Space Nine-themed adventure zone in the FAR future (ST: Voyager obviously comes first in STO). Cardassia, still suffering from the Dominion occupation and bombardment, with all its shady alleys, gangs looking for anything they can get, political intrigues, True Way propaganda etc etc etc....
You did watch the show right? Every couple of weeks a smuggler was trying to get his product through DS9. As Odo once said "If security breaches of that magnitude (severe) can happen on the Enterprise, imagine what it is like on an open port like DS9." Throw some randomization, maybe you'll have a fire fight, maybe you'll talk them down, maybe their innocent. You can do alot with this. And beyond that, yes there will always be Cardassian Voles to kill (They never did get those off the station). And hey, maybe for catching those smugglers you confiscate their contraband? Hmm?
As far as a daily goes: hey how about some diplomacy! There's always character conflicts on DS9. Help Hadron negotiate with some traders from the Gamma Quadrant. Negotiate a trade agreement between Bajor and Cardassia. Help a young couple having a fight. Solve a work relationship issue between Kurland's Operations officer and one of his ensigns. Catch Hadron smuggling Nepeta onto the station. You could do alot with DS9.
Deep Space Nine was known as being a place of character conflict. It should remain so in STO, and that's how you make it an adventure zone.
You did watch the show right? Every couple of weeks a smuggler was trying to get his product through DS9. As Odo once said "If security breaches of that magnitude (severe) can happen on the Enterprise, imagine what it is like on an open port like DS9." Throw some randomization, maybe you'll have a fire fight, maybe you'll talk them down, maybe their innocent. You can do alot with this. And beyond that, yes there will always be Cardassian Voles to kill (They never did get those off the station). And hey, maybe for catching those smugglers you confiscate their contraband? Hmm?
As far as a daily goes: hey how about some diplomacy! There's always character conflicts on DS9. Help Hadron negotiate with some traders from the Gamma Quadrant. Negotiate a trade agreement between Bajor and Cardassia. Help a young couple having a fight. Solve a work relationship issue between Kurland's Operations officer and one of his ensigns. Catch Hadron smuggling Nepeta onto the station. You could do alot with DS9.
Deep Space Nine was known as being a place of character conflict. It should remain so in STO, and that's how you make it an adventure zone.
I DID see the show...
The repeatability of those diplomacy missions currently in-game has not been restored for a reason: It is not easy to create non-combat or non-minigame repeatable daily missions. Just dialogue-clicking will be very boring and even more repititive than the average space combat-daily after very short time...
In general, anything you imagine for an Adventure Zone has to be extrapolated and multiplied... 20 players standing in the conference room, nearly permanent shootings in the docking ring... per definition an adventure zone allows a large number of players on the same map. Having one single instance per player would defeat the whole prupose of such a zone.
In my opinion, the way to go in order to maximize content on a fully redesigned DS9 would be to move exsiting story content to the Promenade/conference room ("Standoff" and other then-to-be-revamped Cardie-arc missions) and add a few more mini-missions, possibly based on those in the first half of "Second Wave".
Another possibility could be a fleet holding on DS9, much like the Romulans and Klingons established offices/embassies on the station during the Dominion War.
Anyhow, as I've already mentioned beforehead, DS9 and the Cardie-arc will not be revisited until after the 2nd expansion ("Season 10" - late 2014), which is already set to be about ST: Voyager and the Delta Quadrant.
I wholeheartedly agree, DS9 definitely needs a major aesthetic renovation. Infirmary, security office should should definitely be added. Ops could stand to be polished up as well. Quarks is pretty good, but I agree that the ramp could be replaced, and it would be nice if there was actually a reason to go upstairs in the first place. I'd even like to see a tailor shop more akin to Garak's, or, at least, a Cardassian tailor. Why is the tailor on DS9 Vulcan in the first place?
I have another thought. We have the Bajoran uniforms and weapons that are available through the C-Store. I'd say that having a couple security themed dailies on DS9 would make sense. Something like laying a stake-out for some Yridian smugglers or, investigating a report of stolen industrial replicators, or even, dare I say it, a murder. With the addition of mission randomization like we saw in A Step Between Stars, such crime solving missions would be great. Round up the usual suspects and figure out which one did it.
I have to admit, I could definitely go for DS9 being turned into an adventure zone. Especially if it had the current facilities (shipyard, bank, exchange, tailor, etc) integrated into it.
I just figured out what would be a great addition to Quark's and give us a reason to use the upper levels. Vick's Lounge! Having Vick's upstairs in a holosuite would be awesome. You could even include audio of James Darren singing. It would be a great new location to put any gambling mini-games like poker, craps, or slots. (All of which have been featured on screen)
Comments
Personally I think "canon" should always be a starting point rather than an unchangeable law and I have no problems with how The Promenade looks 35 years after we last saw it. (If anything, ESD needs to be completely replaced with a more modern station given the monster size of ships now, but a revamp will have to do.)
However, you're right about the mission maps. They look nothing like a map set in a circular structure. If anything needs remastering, it's the DS9 outer ring and Empok Nor maps.
Tacofangs indicated, that IF and WHEN Cryptic revisits the DS9 interior, it would be a total redesign from the ground up; not just a minor/moderate revamp of the existing map. In that case, they would almost certainly get rid of those nasty rooms. I mean, where would they be, if you imagine the Promenade as the inner ring around Ops?? They'd hang in open space somewhere between the habitat ring and the central core. Those two rooms come from a time, when Cryptic had a different design philosophy: We kinda need a room there, so we just spawn it right there. Period. Other interiors from that time are the old FED ship interiors and the interior maps of K7 or the U.S.S. DeWitt. Ugly, illogical, "non-trekky", confusing.
STOWiki admin.
Agreed. I think the room with the banks should be completely removed (per my OP), and the docking bay should be radically altered, and accessible only by turbolift, just like OPs is. This would let them make something that looks more DS9-like.
Keeping Quark's in its own mini instance could have some advantages:
If either of those conditions apply, I think you could justify preserving the mini-instance. If they don't, then I completely agree with you.
I completely agree that clickable spiral staircases are the way to go. I'd be fine if they weren't animated at all, and just worked the way the DS9 turbolifts do when you go from the main level Promenade to the 2nd level.
I do think the main reason no one visits the 2nd level of the Promenade isn't the turbolifts splitting the map, so much as the fact that there's nothing to do up there.
True.
As for Quark's: Quark's and its sound environment (Dabo-shouts, random music etc) is an integral part of the Promenade on DS9. Artificially separating that from each other just cannot transport the actual feel of the show, no matter how well you model the whole map otherwise. I'd be surprised if Quark's (minus that staircase of doom) wouldn't fit in the center of any redesigned Promenade. Its actual ground area is not that large (even the enlarged STO-version).
I wouldn't expect the 2nd floor to be suddenly super-populated, but if it could be reached with a single click (corkscrew staircase) instead of two (elevators --> select Ops or upper level), from more easily recognizable locations (stairs by each Promenade-bridge, and not just 2 hard-to-find elevator-doors), I foresee it to be a much more lively area. Making it inaccessible altogether and just have some wandering NPCs populate it (like the bridges on Bajor) could also be an option, however, then players could not enjoy its fantastic vista of the wormhole.
STOWiki admin.
Looking at that, I think the designers for the PC game "Deep Space Nine: The Fallen" used those blueprints exactly, they just added a couple extra rooms so they could have Keiko's class room and Garak's shop.
Great game, if you can find it buy it. Works fine on Win 7 64bit when running in Compatibility Mode.
That actually frees up another potential place to stick the transporter room. The Technical Manual schematic places the schoolroom in that location.
That makes sense. None of those sets were used very frequently, so they didn't need to be permanent.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Yeah, there are plenty of "empty" spaces on the Promenade where locations which shared sets could be slotted.
To clarify though, the Security Office did have a permanent set...it's just that the holding cells had a separate location on the Promenade soundstage, even though the series depicted them as being attached to Odo's office.
This could act in part as a second dilithium mine style holding if the various rooms were made empty and populated by Fleet projects.
Yeah, Garak's shop would be gone now, or perhaps franchised out to Mo'Neke (we all know how fond Cryptic, and yes, the playerbase, are of name-dropping).
Keiko was forced to shut the school down during the Dominion War, but one could have re-opened. I would presume that there are still station personnel and residents who have children.
Deep Space Nine was the Max Level Hub in this game. I think it should remain so and as such, I would like to make a few suggestions though:
I'll be honest, I'm very passionate about a DS9 revamp. My first act upon completing the Tutorial in STO was to head to DS9. I would love for the zone to reach its full potential.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
All of this has been suggested before. Of course it is just logical to assume that after the Klingon War and Borg/Undine arcs, the Devs will proceed with a revamp of the Romulan and Cardassian arcs.
However: As tacofangs noted before, if anything happens to the DS9 interior it'll be a complete rebuild from scratch. This takes a lot of time. According to the recent interviews, the Klingon War retouch took one Dev ~3 days per mission. The upcoming Borg/Undine revamp is allocated "FOUR TIMES as much time", i.e., at least ~2 weeks per mission (although they will probably kick a mission out --> ~10-12 weeks total). Now, a complete DS9 rebuild, including all these things suggested here, would take several Devs from different departments several weeks AT LEAST. I am not sure it would automatically go hand in hand with a Cardie-arc revamp/retouch. Let's assume there will be a Season 9.5, and it sees a Klingon War-style minor-moderate retouch of the Romulan Mystery-arc, then Season 10 COULD be the right time for a Cardie-revamp/retouch... OR the swap both arcs, although I think Cryptic would place greater importance on the Romulan arc for now.
Anyways, rebuilding DS9 SHOULD go hand in hand with a retouch/revamp of the Cardassian story-arc as it would give players more incentive to actually visit the new station several times - if you put that much effort into a map, you wanna maximize its usage (possibly also change the missions, so more of them takes places ON the station: Make the redundant diplomacy missions "Temple Offerings" and "Standoff" part of the regular storyline and move the latter from your own ship's Obs. deck to DS9 conference room; "Crack in Mirror" could be moved from DS9's cargo ring to the Promenade)
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For the most part: Agreed, although one or two missions have a neat story, e.g., Seeds of Dissent. The whole Mirror Universe thing, however, seems a bit out of place. In general the arc is lacking any cohesion or red thread to follow.
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I would favor replacing all those "station under siege/Kurland is incompetent" missions with DS9 redone as an adventure zone somewhat like Nimbus. Obviously, you'd need to tweak the model somewhat, though.
I concur. DS9 would make a great adventure zone. The Promenade/OPs would be like Paradise City, the social area. The Habitat Ring and Conference Room could be the daily areas. The Docking Ring and the Cargo Bays would be the areas of highest risk where smugglers are trying to sneak things on board and could risk a firefight if you aren't able to catch them with high enough espionage or diplomacy/marauding. And then certain areas of the station like the Power Core (which was visited in a Cardie arc mission where an Undine tries to sabotage the power supply) are "restricted" and can only be accessed during certain missions. It would also help to have the giant map for The 2800 Featured Episode Series. Imagine Second Wave if you had to run from the Conference Room all the way to the docking pylon. Thats a helluva a gauntlet run and I think would be a lot of fun.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Although the general idea is nice, I kinda dislike the notion of having constant firefights on DS9. This is NOT Nimbus III or an invasion zone (yet). Also, what repeatable daily content would you possibly offer in the small conference lounge? A console clicky?^^
Having to fight smugglers in the docking ring sounds more like a rag-tag smuggler station and not like one of the Federation's most important starbases... Shooting a few Cardassian moles here and there, that would be credible... but not very "epic". Eventually, "Adventure Zone" might be too much, rather a "hub with many little quests", smth like a Hathon/Bajor 2.0 ...
If anything Cardassia Prime itself might be the perfect place for a Star Trek: Deep Space Nine-themed adventure zone in the FAR future (ST: Voyager obviously comes first in STO). Cardassia, still suffering from the Dominion occupation and bombardment, with all its shady alleys, gangs looking for anything they can get, political intrigues, True Way propaganda etc etc etc....
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This is where you'd need some nuance. One option would be a separate adventure zone instance that you get shifted over to at certain points in missions.
You did watch the show right? Every couple of weeks a smuggler was trying to get his product through DS9. As Odo once said "If security breaches of that magnitude (severe) can happen on the Enterprise, imagine what it is like on an open port like DS9." Throw some randomization, maybe you'll have a fire fight, maybe you'll talk them down, maybe their innocent. You can do alot with this. And beyond that, yes there will always be Cardassian Voles to kill (They never did get those off the station). And hey, maybe for catching those smugglers you confiscate their contraband? Hmm?
As far as a daily goes: hey how about some diplomacy! There's always character conflicts on DS9. Help Hadron negotiate with some traders from the Gamma Quadrant. Negotiate a trade agreement between Bajor and Cardassia. Help a young couple having a fight. Solve a work relationship issue between Kurland's Operations officer and one of his ensigns. Catch Hadron smuggling Nepeta onto the station. You could do alot with DS9.
Deep Space Nine was known as being a place of character conflict. It should remain so in STO, and that's how you make it an adventure zone.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I DID see the show...
The repeatability of those diplomacy missions currently in-game has not been restored for a reason: It is not easy to create non-combat or non-minigame repeatable daily missions. Just dialogue-clicking will be very boring and even more repititive than the average space combat-daily after very short time...
In general, anything you imagine for an Adventure Zone has to be extrapolated and multiplied... 20 players standing in the conference room, nearly permanent shootings in the docking ring... per definition an adventure zone allows a large number of players on the same map. Having one single instance per player would defeat the whole prupose of such a zone.
In my opinion, the way to go in order to maximize content on a fully redesigned DS9 would be to move exsiting story content to the Promenade/conference room ("Standoff" and other then-to-be-revamped Cardie-arc missions) and add a few more mini-missions, possibly based on those in the first half of "Second Wave".
Another possibility could be a fleet holding on DS9, much like the Romulans and Klingons established offices/embassies on the station during the Dominion War.
Anyhow, as I've already mentioned beforehead, DS9 and the Cardie-arc will not be revisited until after the 2nd expansion ("Season 10" - late 2014), which is already set to be about ST: Voyager and the Delta Quadrant.
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I have another thought. We have the Bajoran uniforms and weapons that are available through the C-Store. I'd say that having a couple security themed dailies on DS9 would make sense. Something like laying a stake-out for some Yridian smugglers or, investigating a report of stolen industrial replicators, or even, dare I say it, a murder. With the addition of mission randomization like we saw in A Step Between Stars, such crime solving missions would be great. Round up the usual suspects and figure out which one did it.