The new ship has a Proton cannon... that combined with the prototype cannon and a protonic dual beam or dual cannon plus Dyson consoles (and there ARE +20-30 ish consoles)
my ship's fore weaponry is very formidable already. I also used the Dyson consoles with photon torpedo boosts... and the gravity photon torp.. not a bad setup .. fleet Photon in rear with 2 fleet anti proton beam arrays.
I'm so far pleased with it..
Unless they add more than just 2 proton weapons and give us regular tac consoles for proton, I don't see how this split weapon setup translate into dps comparable to normal pure weapon fit.
I feel compelled to point out that there are also Dyson rep science consoles that contribute proton damage on a proc whenever an offensive science power gets used. Then, there's the through the shield on crit proc too. And then the proton cannon from dyson rep. Drop the Dyson tac consoles, and then all that extra proton damage becomes even more proton damage.
Add this all together, and there's likely some pretty strong synergy that can be attained, making said ship/build quite potent against the Voth, and still provide efficient through-shielding damage to other targets. I do know that my Aves-class Science Destroyer is quite able to gainfully contribute to any group effort so far.
The trick, as I see it, is to make sure that you have as many sources of proton damage as possible once you decide to invest in the Dyson Science Destroyer.
I feel compelled to point out that there are also Dyson rep science consoles that contribute proton damage on a proc whenever an offensive science power gets used. Then, there's the through the shield on crit proc too. And then the proton cannon from dyson rep. Drop the Dyson tac consoles, and then all that extra proton damage becomes even more proton damage.
Add this all together, and there's likely some pretty strong synergy that can be attained, making said ship/build quite potent against the Voth, and still provide efficient through-shielding damage to other targets. I do know that my Aves-class Science Destroyer is quite able to gainfully contribute to any group effort so far.
The trick, as I see it, is to make sure that you have as many sources of proton damage as possible once you decide to invest in the Dyson Science Destroyer.
I see this but i think that you can boost other energy types more than you can boost the one proton cannon.
here is what i am thinking:
Fore:
2 AP DHC (i want fleet for the acc mod.)
1 grav torp
Borg engines and deflector
dyson core (for the shield bonus.)
Fleet Sheild.
I decided not to go with the gear release with the ship because other gear tanks better and there is no proton boost with the solenae gear. I may change my mind on this. the set bonuses are nice.
aft:
KCB
360 AP beam (this is to be able to subsystem target.)
AP turret.
Eng slots:
2 Dil RCS consoles both boosting energy and kinetic resist.
Sci slots:
valdore console
borg console
proton console
fourth slot To be determined. (hopefully i get that leech.)
thats what i figured i would build it as voth cannon's and just leaving the proton on being i assume that slots only for that for just a extra gun. at least until we get proper proton boosting consoles.
My gut sense, on hearing about a Science Destroyer was not positive.
My first impressions while playing with it were not good. The BOFF seat flip is a very neat gimmick. But the permanent weapon-powered weapon, I prefer to choose my weapon load-out, and weapon-powered Tac. orientation turned me off. A new Aux-powered Anti-Voth weapon on a Sci ship who have been interesting and unique.
I'd prefer not to swap my sci magic for weapons power and wish Cryptic would develop more Sci ships that allow for non-weapons power weapons.
It is not a step closer. Don't you see they are selling you a weapon-dps centric 'science' ship? You're not doing science with it.
A science focused battlecruiser is literally the Nebula. Look at how BAD it sucks in the game. This new science destroyer is only better than the nebula because it gets a lot of escort-like abilities stapled onto it. It is NOT a science ship. Its an escort with science abilities.
Pre-F2P when the science ships actually existed as science ships, the weapons on them were there to compliment the science abilities. You would never defeat a cruiser or an escort with gun dps no matter how hard you spec'd and equipped the ship for it. Science ship were NASTY to fight against because they had a veritable bag of tricks to toss at you... but look at them now. The meta is weapon dps above anything with science being used to assist weapons. This science destroyer would be as obsolete and useless as the Nebula is now if it did not have all that escort stuff on it.
The Vesta was a first bad step now this. Rather than fixing science they are burying it further by merging it with escort dps junk.
As much as I want science skills to kill people as efficiently as raw DPS, it's just not going to happen. Blame PvP, blame whatever, but I don't think something like Grav Well is ever going to kill anyone again.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I haven't seen a lot of word on the forums about the new ships, at least not any word that isn't drowning in a sea of "discussion" about grinding or lockboxes. Let's put aside all of that for this thread and just look at the ships themselves, and what we know about them in the hours before they all go live.
Necessary disclaimer: All these stats are subject to change, of course.
Pertinent details are below, but pretty pictures and the full stories are linked here:
Let's start with the Dyson Science Destroyers. I'll put discussion of the Hirogen ships in their own thread:
OK, we already know it's NOT a 10-console, Fleet-quality ship. Those are being saved for the three 3-packs being released next month. So, like the Odyssey Star Cruiser and Bortas Battle Cruiser before, it's best to look at these ships as "preview" versions of the final product to be sold.
Anyway, to the stats, using the Solanae (Fed) class as base:
As you can see, even in its free version the Dyson Science Destroyer (DSD) has slightly more hull strength (28.5k vs 27.9k) than the Vesta, but a lower shield modifier (1.3 vs 1.35), lower crew (400 vs 750, though the Romulan and KDF variants have higher crew), and a tiny bit more impulse mod (.01 difference). They have the same base turn rate and inertia rating.
The Science Vesta has one more Science console (5 vs. 4) and the Tac and Eng vestas fall along similar lines (4 vs 3 tac consoles and 3 vs 2 eng consoles).
In officer seating they also differ, with the Vesta having 2 universal boff slots (Ltc and En), and the free DSD having none.
Of course, this is the free version we're talking about. Assuming the C-store version is also a fleet-grade, 10-console ship, then we'll likely see one or more Boff stations turn Universal (I predict the En and Lt Sci slots will be changed), and see similar additions of relevant console slots for each of the 3-pack variants.
I predict that the DSD will have a slight advantage in Hull and possibly Shield strength over the Vesta (assuming that it will get the standard Fleet upgrade of +10% health and shields), but slightly less flexibility in bridge officer seating. It will also be able to improve its turn rate, speed, weapons, and tactical power set at the cost of science abilities by activating Tactical Mode (which is an innate power and requires no special console).
However, the Vesta's own advantage is in a slightly more flexible core bridge seating (assuming Cryptic only makes the DSD's lieutenant stations universal), as well as the presence of a hangar from which to launch runabouts and fighters. Furthermore, the Vesta can mount Auxiliary Dual Heavy Cannons, which give it the ability to inflict forward-arc damage without compromising too much on auxiliary power levels.
When activating tactical mode, the following occurs:
Enables Dual Heavy Proton Cannon
+15 Weapon Power
+Turn Rate
+Impulse Speed
+Inertia
Lt. Commander Tactical Bridge Officer seat is upgrade to Commander Tactical
Commander Science Bridge Officer seat is downgraded to Lt. Commander Science
Secondary Deflector is disabled
Sensor Analysis is disabled
Subsystem Targeting is disabled
-15 Aux Power
Access to Dual Heavy Proton Cannons is an interesting decision, as the DSD seems well-tailored to builds that somehow involve the use of the Protonic Arsenal Set. A sample build could have Scatter Volley or Rapid Fire III as the Commander-level tactical power, while the rest of the weapons in the fore arc are 2 Protonic Polaron beams and the Experimental Proton Weapon (which is compatible with Beam and Cannon powers). That way a captain in science mode could use beam skills while in science mode, while accessing some powerful forward firepower when switching to tactical.
Unfortunately while access to high-level tactical powers like Rapid Fire III and Rank III Attack Patterns is nice, the DSD's performance as an "escort" is suboptimal. If the current rumors of the DSD's tactical mode turn rate are true (it's 14, supposedly) it'll have less maneuverability than any current Destroyer, Raptor or Escort. And of course there's the problem of what to put in the rear arc. Should players put in turrets to maximize forward firepower at the cost of Subsystem Targeting, or beams to do "escort-like" things at the cost of diluting their damage output when in tactical mode?
In the end, I see an interesting time ahead for science players, especially once Secondary Deflectors are rolled out to all Science Vessels, making that distinguishing trait moot. The Romulans finally have a science-based alternative to the Ha'Nom, and the Klingons get their first 3-pack ship in a very long while, and a more credible alternative to the Science-tweaked Bird of Prey and Varanus Support vessel.
For Federation players the choice will be less clear-cut. Should they choose the vesta and gain an advantage in auxiliary power and the help of hangar pets, or the Dyson Science Destroyer and gain the flexibility to "go escort" should the need arise?
There is, however, a last wrinkle in this saga: The Solanae Overcharged Warp Core, a piece of the 4-piece Solanae Hybrid Technologies set, which will NOT be available after the Anniversary Event ends. This has caused much consternation for some players who like to be "complete", but let's look at the 4-piece bonus:
4 Piece Bonus ? Advanced Metaphasic Shields
Toggle (15 second duration)
Outgoing damage is reduced by 20%
Flight Speed and Turn Rate is reduced
Large Bonus Damage Resistance Rating
+50 Shield Power
Converts 50% of incoming energy damage into shield healing
Immunity to Teleport
As you can see, like the 3rd piece of the Obelisk set (which is locked up in the Lobi store), it's not much, and definitely not essential. At best it's an enhanced version of Reverse Shield Polarity that reduces your damage and mobility. Not the greatest tradeoff for a science vessel that will need speed to avoid damage. In short, it can be done without for those who feel like sitting out the event in "protest". Besides completionist instincts, the only good reason to grind out the warp core if you otherwise hate the Anniversary event is if the warp core has a cool visual effect, which I doubt, or if you don't have a decent warp core already.
if and when the DHC up front is an optional in tac mode, i would consider the ship a more versatile weapon. however i intend to test it out when i get it with various parts and pieces to see how it works.
the warp core looks alright, but i would rather take power from the engine then the weapon system which is a minor minus.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
the ship pretty much has to be set up cannons. unless you never plain on using tac mode and at that point why bother girding for it. the preview in the episode was so badly eqed whepion wise it gave you a bad impression of the damage it could dish out. in tac mode this ship will be around the same if you stuck your science toon in a escort.
people call the skill swap a gimmick but really i see some use for it put something like gravity well in that slot we all have ran stfs where the players just totally fail at the game the cure anyone. anyways you can pop out of dps mode throw out a gravity well to buy some extra time then go back into dps mode.
what would of given a better impression was two different weapons setups, one for science and one for tactical. as it stands the tactical only activates the DHC, which doesnt change much of anything. the only things that really made any difference were the ship powers themselves. that protonic discharge that jumps from enemy to enemy when their shields are down is like pumping in several torpedo hits.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
the ship pretty much has to be set up cannons. unless you never plain on using tac mode and at that point why bother girding for it. the preview in the episode was so badly eqed whepion wise it gave you a bad impression of the damage it could dish out. in tac mode this ship will be around the same if you stuck your science toon in a escort.
people call the skill swap a gimmick but really i see some use for it put something like gravity well in that slot we all have ran stfs where the players just totally fail at the game the cure anyone. anyways you can pop out of dps mode throw out a gravity well to buy some extra time then go back into dps mode.
this is actually how i been playing mine as an escort that can go to CC mode when the pug goes to TRIBBLE
only reason i have the dual beam banks is to target subsystems can still be used onlly reason. thinking of going to AP cannons with the 360 AP beam in the rear and a AP turret
Personally after playing through the FE story Science Destroyer is an interesting but tricky ship to run (been an eng captain doesnt help out much either) Still at lost at the most effective way to run the ship: beam or cannon.
While I am unsettled at the lack of choice (and effectiveness) of Cruisers (with everything been DPS only) I can?t stop wondering at the possibilities of a Science Cruisers hybrid like the Science Destroyer
I guess the problem would be the game environment that promotes DPS instead of buff/debuff or soaking up damages for team members...
I like it, looks wise. IT doesn't have to be sleek or streamline, thats only in terms of wind resistance. I like the color lay out the white and the blue, it's very appealing to me. Yeah it's kind compact like really weirdly compact but I look at it like a dinosaur, if it doesn't need to be long it doesn't need to be long.
Gameplay wise to me I don't like any ship that has that weird ensign tactical slot, like what's that for? It's in the way. remove it. What's the point for having Commander level Boffs if you're going to use an ensign level skill. At least make it two slots. I can just imagine telling a commanding officer "Hey, you have to sit in the kiddie table/baby chair." Just don't see that working out all that well... just saying.
And whats the purpose of the forward firing guns? I understand some science skills require you to turn your deflector array onto the enemy which is located in the nose of the ship. Will the second be placed in the rear of the ship so you can just zoom by like an escort drop grav well, turn, pop into tac mode and zoom by again with DHC's blazing with scatter shots or Torp swarms or something? That doesn't sound like a bad Idea.... I am coining that, no one else can use it.
What else gets me is why does it fire protons? If it's from the dyson sphere it should be firing antiprotons. It's like four commanders gathered in a room and discussed these ships and was like. "Phasers. Phasers are good we should do phasers." And the K-feds (Klingons are going to love this term. Use it, an use it often) "No you Ha'DIBah, it should have disruptors! Disruptors FTW!" and then the Romulan would be all. "Two words. Plasma Burn. Done TRIBBLE." Then they argue then a creepy little ferengi just comes out and says "Protons, there is a market for this. And if you want us to financially back this, you will use protons." Bam protons it is. Better options removed.
To me this ship is doing too much. It's doing so much that it can't do anything well. it can target sub systems, it can fire onboard cannons, it has a variety of attacks and skills, it can literally change the seating arrangements around at will and can turn and fire well. It has sooooo many options that its limiting. Because you don't now what it's good at. Is it a Chimera Hybrid? Is it a Vesta Hybrid? Is it a cruiser? Is it an escort? What is it? People don' like unknown quantities in their lives, they like knowing if something is good or not, and worth it or not.
Personally I just can't vibe with it, it's not flexible in the places I want it to be flexible. It's a total Chinese gymnast in all categories but where it counts for me. It's not a war ship. I'm a tactical officer and thats that. I'm set in my ways. All of my ships have had the same layout and I have flown them all the same. The iconic patrol escort layout, by far the best layout in the game. And because It cannot achieve this, I do not think I can use this ship. I want to be able rotate befaw, I want to be able to fire spreads, to be able to use my attack patterns and be able to rotate tac team, without being able to do these minor things I just don't feel like a tactical officer, so unless that changes I will not fly this ship.
its not as complex as you think being the free ship will only have the 4 set and none of the consoles they will want money for that. its really no different then say the siege destroyer having siege mode. but rather then just one set ability its a ability you slotted and a extra gun.
this is actually how i been playing mine as an escort that can go to CC mode when the pug goes to TRIBBLE
only reason i have the dual beam banks is to target subsystems can still be used onlly reason. thinking of going to AP cannons with the 360 AP beam in the rear and a AP turret
You might consider the Chroniton Beam Banks on the Lobi store. Antiproton damage, so it syncs well with the 360 AP Array, and it has a nifty "slow" proc that happens, helping you with CC.
I really hope Cryptic releases more Proton weapons. I'd kill for a 360 Proton Beam Array... or just some more Proton weapons I can equip. It feels wrong running Proton and Antiproton... kinda like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
It is kind of Vesta-lite, a sci ship that can equip DHCs. In fact I am wondering now if this isnt the "Vesta" type ship that was discussed as being made available to Roms.
As I said earlier, my primary interest in it is that its a usable warbird with cmdr sci. I'm also interested in the KDF version for similar reasons, but not as much (I have other ships filling that gap already). No interest in it for fed.
The proton dhc is a bit of a trap. By the time you buff it, you will have self-nerfed your primary energy weapon damage to an even greater extent.
i don't understand why people want to put exotic weapon types on ships. Like putting anti protons on a ship that has a phaser weapon built into the ship.
This ships main cannon is proton, it's special attack is proton, why use anything other then protons on it is beyond me.
i don't understand why people want to put exotic weapon types on ships. Like putting anti protons on a ship that has a phaser weapon built into the ship.
This ships main cannon is proton, it's special attack is proton, why use anything other then protons on it is beyond me.
Err, there's only one other space weapon that's Proton base type in the entire game, the Experimental Proton Weapon from the Dyson rep, and you can only use only one copy of it. There's 6 slots to fill. There's Protonic Polaron, but that is Polaron in base type, with the proc being Proton damage. Also, there's no dedicated Proton-only enhancing Tac consoles, only partial enhancing like the Auto-Targeting Modules from the Dyson Rep.
Normally a KDF shipyard forum poster.. but a couple "corrections"
The warp core from the Anniversary ship CAN be moved to any one of the ships of the C-Store 3 pack.
One of the blogs revealed that the C-Store 3 pack are going to be 2 engineering, 4 Science, and 4 Tactical console slot ships (subject to change of course)
The Klingon carriers with science abilities WILL get a secondary deflector.. BOP's which are Raiders will get the flanking bonus, but they are not science ship.. so no secondary defector for them. The big V's are the only KDF carrier that is going to get a secondary delector.
A number of Romulan players have pretty clearly stated that for the Romulans the dyson DD's are going to be their best science ship. Speaking for the KDF we're in the same state... the 9 console version is the equal of the Big V, and better then the Gorn ships. The 10 console version from the C-store pack out end of February or there a bouts will simply be better.
I agree that for Federation players it not quite so clear cut due the plethora of excellent Tier 5, tier 5.5 and fleet science ships... and of course, the Vesta. The secondary Deflectors will for Feds just add gravy into an already excellent mix. Other Romulan Science ships will improve, but for Romulan and KDF players the Dyson Science DD are going to be pretty much the best we have.
Folks whining in the KDF forums and threads about "whine whine the grind" have gotten pretty short shrift from the more knowledgeable player who have recognized that for our faction its going to be the best we have in a lot of ways, unless your a died in the wool lover of big carriers.. (and running into 5 of the big carriers fleet, regular, or Mirror, with advanced pets in PvP will ruin any ones day!)
For the Federation faction.. well, ya'll got a raft of excellent science ships as it is.
But what makes the Dyson ships extra special is the synergies with their mounted equipment (That special warp core/singularity !!!) and the 3 additional pieces from the Space set from running the FE, and their built in ability to switch from a pure science ships to the Destroyer (which only looses the inherent subsystem targeting ability.. the other science ships abilities, including the benefit from the secondary deflector remain in place!)
It should be a fairly tempting ship for Fed players to acquire just for its flexibility.
The hidden bonus how ever is consoles, and weapons available from Dyson rep, and fleet Dyson spire stores... That's the real genie in the bottle (or perhaps 800 lbs gorilla depending on your POV) that a good many players have NOT noticed.
Proton weaponry: currently no existing resists available other then on the most broad of terms (energy weapon resistance!)
An amazing number of consoles that tie specificly into the ability and powers of the Dyson ships and greatly enhance them!
We've perhaps delt with it a bit more in the KDF and Romulan shipyard forums because of how superior to our existing pure science ships the Dyson science DD's are.
Don't be to surprised to see there appear as THE science ships of choice for non carrier playing KDF, and for Romulan players.
And me? I'm going to go nut now doing Dyson rep stuff which I had purposely NOT been doing ((whine whine another *explitive deleted* rep grind)) *sighs* I've got the Dyson Sci DD on my main allready, and just discovered there is a WHOLE lot of ships gear I want from the Dyson Rep store now because of how it will specifically enhance THIS ship...
You Fed players got some choices.. For we KDF and ROM players.. are choices have been seriously simplified, Get this ship and be competitive, or don't get it and be left wanting.
And if your a KDF or ROM science captain that takes playing a science captain seriously,
NOT getting this ship is about as dumb as dumb can be.
The Klingon carriers with science abilities WILL get a secondary deflector.. BOP's which are Raiders will get the flanking bonus, but they are not science ship.. so no secondary defector for them. The big V's are the only KDF carrier that is going to get a secondary delector.
I wouldn't be so sure. The dev blog regarding Secondary Deflectors stated that their criteria for a ship qualifying to get a secondary deflector was the presence of "both Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis". And there are no "true" (as in 2-hangar) carriers with Sensor Analysis, not even the Vo'quv. However, the Varanus, Phalanx and Krenn all have both Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis, which would put them on the list.
Trivia: Ironically, Cryptic's requirement of BOTH sensor analysis and subsystem targeting means that the Tier 1 Oberth Light Science Vessel does NOT qualify for a Secondary Deflector, since it has Sensor Analysis...but NOT Subsystem Targeting. Funny.
But what makes the Dyson ships extra special is the synergies with their mounted equipment (That special warp core/singularity !!!) and the 3 additional pieces from the Space set from running the FE, and their built in ability to switch from a pure science ships to the Destroyer (which only looses the inherent subsystem targeting ability.. the other science ships abilities, including the benefit from the secondary deflector remain in place!)
It should be a fairly tempting ship for Fed players to acquire just for its flexibility.
The hidden bonus how ever is consoles, and weapons available from Dyson rep, and fleet Dyson spire stores... That's the real genie in the bottle (or perhaps 800 lbs gorilla depending on your POV) that a good many players have NOT noticed.
Proton weaponry: currently no existing resists available other then on the most broad of terms (energy weapon resistance!)
An amazing number of consoles that tie specificly into the ability and powers of the Dyson ships and greatly enhance them!
We've perhaps delt with it a bit more in the KDF and Romulan shipyard forums because of how superior to our existing pure science ships the Dyson science DD's are.
Don't be to surprised to see there appear as THE science ships of choice for non carrier playing KDF, and for Romulan players.
And me? I'm going to go nut now doing Dyson rep stuff which I had purposely NOT been doing ((whine whine another *explitive deleted* rep grind)) *sighs* I've got the Dyson Sci DD on my main allready, and just discovered there is a WHOLE lot of ships gear I want from the Dyson Rep store now because of how it will specifically enhance THIS ship...
You Fed players got some choices.. For we KDF and ROM players.. are choices have been seriously simplified, Get this ship and be competitive, or don't get it and be left wanting.
And if your a KDF or ROM science captain that takes playing a science captain seriously,
NOT getting this ship is about as dumb as dumb can be.
This is a very good point, though when I first wrote the post neither the FE was live nor the look at the various consoles so I couldn't have known that was the case. Indeed, the DSD has a crazy amount of baked-in synergy with the various equipment available from the Dyson Rep and the Feature Episode.
And nobody should count out Proton Damage just yet, even if there are only two space weapons in the game that deal it (one of which is locked on the DSD), since as you mentioned, there are no specific resistances in the game to it, while there is plenty of gear and enemies that resist the more popular Plasma/Disruptor/Antiproton damage types.
Anecdotally, I recently tried out a cannon-based protonic polaron build on my 9-console Patrol Escort, and even while it was unoptimized (just the Jem'hadar set, 1 proton-boosting tac console, green mk X polaron damage consoles, no Dyson console) the Proton Damage procs were melting Voth like crazy (though this is also likely due to Protonic procs doing double damage vs Voth).
So while it's not quite up to the top-tier standards of the craziest all-fleet-gear PVP builds, it's worth noting that with a little bit of luck you can get nearly all the protonic polaron equipment you need, as well as the proton-boosting consoles and the Solanae Hybrid Set, for very low cost (the grinding of a rep vs. fleet credits + dilithium).
We might be looking at Dyson being a new standard for high quality "default" gear for end-game PVE players.
Take the ship, strip off the solanae TRIBBLE, put in a solid fleet/rep gearout with solid boff powers and this thing is going to completely and TOTALLY outclass the mobius (and possibly even the wells) in every way, shape, and form. Especially for science captains.
The Rom version is already earmarked for my primary PvP toon (my sci on fedside).
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Take the ship, strip off the solanae TRIBBLE, put in a solid fleet/rep gearout with solid boff powers and this thing is going to completely and TOTALLY outclass the mobius (and possibly even the wells) in every way, shape, and form. Especially for science captains.
The Rom version is already earmarked for my primary PvP toon (my sci on fedside).
been there, done that and completely agree:
2 borg, fleet singcore with AMP, elite shields, valdore-console, plasmonic leech ...everything else should be an obvious piece of cake.
I've pretty much decided not to bother with the free Sci Destroyers, except maybe for my KDF science officer (and still on the fence with that).
Saving up my 400 Qmendations for next year and hoping for the best. I've got other things I'd rather be doing and need to be doing than "Party Patrol" day after day.
Highly unlikely to want any of the three C-Store ship bundles. We'll see when the stats come out, but I'm well equipped with Fed ships already.
Other than that, I'll run the FE for the Solanae gear and settle for the 2 or 3 pc bonus. The shields and impulse engines are worth getting. Not sure about the deflector.
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Well, opinions are what they are. I just got the Aves today and i love it. I thought i would give up some DPS it being a sci ship and and all but change modes and that DPS i though i was missing, was there.
All and all it has become my new main ship and i cant wait to get the cstore versions
Comments
Unless they add more than just 2 proton weapons and give us regular tac consoles for proton, I don't see how this split weapon setup translate into dps comparable to normal pure weapon fit.
Add this all together, and there's likely some pretty strong synergy that can be attained, making said ship/build quite potent against the Voth, and still provide efficient through-shielding damage to other targets. I do know that my Aves-class Science Destroyer is quite able to gainfully contribute to any group effort so far.
The trick, as I see it, is to make sure that you have as many sources of proton damage as possible once you decide to invest in the Dyson Science Destroyer.
I see this but i think that you can boost other energy types more than you can boost the one proton cannon.
here is what i am thinking:
Fore:
2 AP DHC (i want fleet for the acc mod.)
1 grav torp
Borg engines and deflector
dyson core (for the shield bonus.)
Fleet Sheild.
I decided not to go with the gear release with the ship because other gear tanks better and there is no proton boost with the solenae gear. I may change my mind on this. the set bonuses are nice.
aft:
KCB
360 AP beam (this is to be able to subsystem target.)
AP turret.
Eng slots:
2 Dil RCS consoles both boosting energy and kinetic resist.
Sci slots:
valdore console
borg console
proton console
fourth slot To be determined. (hopefully i get that leech.)
Tac slots:
all AP boosting consoles.
Can someone PLEASE OH PLEASE confirm that subsystem targeting works with the 360 AP beam? i figure it would but confirmation would be nice.
My first impressions while playing with it were not good. The BOFF seat flip is a very neat gimmick. But the permanent weapon-powered weapon, I prefer to choose my weapon load-out, and weapon-powered Tac. orientation turned me off. A new Aux-powered Anti-Voth weapon on a Sci ship who have been interesting and unique.
I'd prefer not to swap my sci magic for weapons power and wish Cryptic would develop more Sci ships that allow for non-weapons power weapons.
As much as I want science skills to kill people as efficiently as raw DPS, it's just not going to happen. Blame PvP, blame whatever, but I don't think something like Grav Well is ever going to kill anyone again.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
borg mk xii deflector and engines
maco mk xii shield
warp core that comes with it
eng 2 dil mine neutronium with turn mod
sci Borg console 3 plasma infused particle gens mk x
Tac 3 phaser relays mk xii blue
weapons fore: wide angle quantum 2 fleet phaser DBB, and the proton dual heavy
weapons aft: KCB, 2 fleet phaser turrets
still working on the boff seating i have found i have a sever lack of sci boffs and WAY to many tactical
if and when the DHC up front is an optional in tac mode, i would consider the ship a more versatile weapon. however i intend to test it out when i get it with various parts and pieces to see how it works.
the warp core looks alright, but i would rather take power from the engine then the weapon system which is a minor minus.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
people call the skill swap a gimmick but really i see some use for it put something like gravity well in that slot we all have ran stfs where the players just totally fail at the game the cure anyone. anyways you can pop out of dps mode throw out a gravity well to buy some extra time then go back into dps mode.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
this is actually how i been playing mine as an escort that can go to CC mode when the pug goes to TRIBBLE
only reason i have the dual beam banks is to target subsystems can still be used onlly reason. thinking of going to AP cannons with the 360 AP beam in the rear and a AP turret
While I am unsettled at the lack of choice (and effectiveness) of Cruisers (with everything been DPS only) I can?t stop wondering at the possibilities of a Science Cruisers hybrid like the Science Destroyer
I guess the problem would be the game environment that promotes DPS instead of buff/debuff or soaking up damages for team members...
Gameplay wise to me I don't like any ship that has that weird ensign tactical slot, like what's that for? It's in the way. remove it. What's the point for having Commander level Boffs if you're going to use an ensign level skill. At least make it two slots. I can just imagine telling a commanding officer "Hey, you have to sit in the kiddie table/baby chair." Just don't see that working out all that well... just saying.
And whats the purpose of the forward firing guns? I understand some science skills require you to turn your deflector array onto the enemy which is located in the nose of the ship. Will the second be placed in the rear of the ship so you can just zoom by like an escort drop grav well, turn, pop into tac mode and zoom by again with DHC's blazing with scatter shots or Torp swarms or something? That doesn't sound like a bad Idea.... I am coining that, no one else can use it.
What else gets me is why does it fire protons? If it's from the dyson sphere it should be firing antiprotons. It's like four commanders gathered in a room and discussed these ships and was like. "Phasers. Phasers are good we should do phasers." And the K-feds (Klingons are going to love this term. Use it, an use it often) "No you Ha'DIBah, it should have disruptors! Disruptors FTW!" and then the Romulan would be all. "Two words. Plasma Burn. Done TRIBBLE." Then they argue then a creepy little ferengi just comes out and says "Protons, there is a market for this. And if you want us to financially back this, you will use protons." Bam protons it is. Better options removed.
To me this ship is doing too much. It's doing so much that it can't do anything well. it can target sub systems, it can fire onboard cannons, it has a variety of attacks and skills, it can literally change the seating arrangements around at will and can turn and fire well. It has sooooo many options that its limiting. Because you don't now what it's good at. Is it a Chimera Hybrid? Is it a Vesta Hybrid? Is it a cruiser? Is it an escort? What is it? People don' like unknown quantities in their lives, they like knowing if something is good or not, and worth it or not.
Personally I just can't vibe with it, it's not flexible in the places I want it to be flexible. It's a total Chinese gymnast in all categories but where it counts for me. It's not a war ship. I'm a tactical officer and thats that. I'm set in my ways. All of my ships have had the same layout and I have flown them all the same. The iconic patrol escort layout, by far the best layout in the game. And because It cannot achieve this, I do not think I can use this ship. I want to be able rotate befaw, I want to be able to fire spreads, to be able to use my attack patterns and be able to rotate tac team, without being able to do these minor things I just don't feel like a tactical officer, so unless that changes I will not fly this ship.
You might consider the Chroniton Beam Banks on the Lobi store. Antiproton damage, so it syncs well with the 360 AP Array, and it has a nifty "slow" proc that happens, helping you with CC.
I really hope Cryptic releases more Proton weapons. I'd kill for a 360 Proton Beam Array... or just some more Proton weapons I can equip. It feels wrong running Proton and Antiproton... kinda like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
As I said earlier, my primary interest in it is that its a usable warbird with cmdr sci. I'm also interested in the KDF version for similar reasons, but not as much (I have other ships filling that gap already). No interest in it for fed.
The proton dhc is a bit of a trap. By the time you buff it, you will have self-nerfed your primary energy weapon damage to an even greater extent.
fore weps
2x dyson rep Polaron DBBs
1x dyson rep prototype proton wep
aft
ccb and 2x protonic polarons BA's
3x dyson rep polaron VR tac consoles
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This ships main cannon is proton, it's special attack is proton, why use anything other then protons on it is beyond me.
Err, there's only one other space weapon that's Proton base type in the entire game, the Experimental Proton Weapon from the Dyson rep, and you can only use only one copy of it. There's 6 slots to fill. There's Protonic Polaron, but that is Polaron in base type, with the proc being Proton damage. Also, there's no dedicated Proton-only enhancing Tac consoles, only partial enhancing like the Auto-Targeting Modules from the Dyson Rep.
The warp core from the Anniversary ship CAN be moved to any one of the ships of the C-Store 3 pack.
One of the blogs revealed that the C-Store 3 pack are going to be 2 engineering, 4 Science, and 4 Tactical console slot ships (subject to change of course)
The Klingon carriers with science abilities WILL get a secondary deflector.. BOP's which are Raiders will get the flanking bonus, but they are not science ship.. so no secondary defector for them. The big V's are the only KDF carrier that is going to get a secondary delector.
A number of Romulan players have pretty clearly stated that for the Romulans the dyson DD's are going to be their best science ship. Speaking for the KDF we're in the same state... the 9 console version is the equal of the Big V, and better then the Gorn ships. The 10 console version from the C-store pack out end of February or there a bouts will simply be better.
I agree that for Federation players it not quite so clear cut due the plethora of excellent Tier 5, tier 5.5 and fleet science ships... and of course, the Vesta. The secondary Deflectors will for Feds just add gravy into an already excellent mix. Other Romulan Science ships will improve, but for Romulan and KDF players the Dyson Science DD are going to be pretty much the best we have.
Folks whining in the KDF forums and threads about "whine whine the grind" have gotten pretty short shrift from the more knowledgeable player who have recognized that for our faction its going to be the best we have in a lot of ways, unless your a died in the wool lover of big carriers.. (and running into 5 of the big carriers fleet, regular, or Mirror, with advanced pets in PvP will ruin any ones day!)
For the Federation faction.. well, ya'll got a raft of excellent science ships as it is.
But what makes the Dyson ships extra special is the synergies with their mounted equipment (That special warp core/singularity !!!) and the 3 additional pieces from the Space set from running the FE, and their built in ability to switch from a pure science ships to the Destroyer (which only looses the inherent subsystem targeting ability.. the other science ships abilities, including the benefit from the secondary deflector remain in place!)
It should be a fairly tempting ship for Fed players to acquire just for its flexibility.
The hidden bonus how ever is consoles, and weapons available from Dyson rep, and fleet Dyson spire stores... That's the real genie in the bottle (or perhaps 800 lbs gorilla depending on your POV) that a good many players have NOT noticed.
Proton weaponry: currently no existing resists available other then on the most broad of terms (energy weapon resistance!)
An amazing number of consoles that tie specificly into the ability and powers of the Dyson ships and greatly enhance them!
We've perhaps delt with it a bit more in the KDF and Romulan shipyard forums because of how superior to our existing pure science ships the Dyson science DD's are.
Don't be to surprised to see there appear as THE science ships of choice for non carrier playing KDF, and for Romulan players.
And me? I'm going to go nut now doing Dyson rep stuff which I had purposely NOT been doing ((whine whine another *explitive deleted* rep grind)) *sighs* I've got the Dyson Sci DD on my main allready, and just discovered there is a WHOLE lot of ships gear I want from the Dyson Rep store now because of how it will specifically enhance THIS ship...
You Fed players got some choices.. For we KDF and ROM players.. are choices have been seriously simplified, Get this ship and be competitive, or don't get it and be left wanting.
And if your a KDF or ROM science captain that takes playing a science captain seriously,
NOT getting this ship is about as dumb as dumb can be.
I wouldn't be so sure. The dev blog regarding Secondary Deflectors stated that their criteria for a ship qualifying to get a secondary deflector was the presence of "both Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis". And there are no "true" (as in 2-hangar) carriers with Sensor Analysis, not even the Vo'quv. However, the Varanus, Phalanx and Krenn all have both Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis, which would put them on the list.
Trivia: Ironically, Cryptic's requirement of BOTH sensor analysis and subsystem targeting means that the Tier 1 Oberth Light Science Vessel does NOT qualify for a Secondary Deflector, since it has Sensor Analysis...but NOT Subsystem Targeting. Funny.
This is a very good point, though when I first wrote the post neither the FE was live nor the look at the various consoles so I couldn't have known that was the case. Indeed, the DSD has a crazy amount of baked-in synergy with the various equipment available from the Dyson Rep and the Feature Episode.
And nobody should count out Proton Damage just yet, even if there are only two space weapons in the game that deal it (one of which is locked on the DSD), since as you mentioned, there are no specific resistances in the game to it, while there is plenty of gear and enemies that resist the more popular Plasma/Disruptor/Antiproton damage types.
Anecdotally, I recently tried out a cannon-based protonic polaron build on my 9-console Patrol Escort, and even while it was unoptimized (just the Jem'hadar set, 1 proton-boosting tac console, green mk X polaron damage consoles, no Dyson console) the Proton Damage procs were melting Voth like crazy (though this is also likely due to Protonic procs doing double damage vs Voth).
So while it's not quite up to the top-tier standards of the craziest all-fleet-gear PVP builds, it's worth noting that with a little bit of luck you can get nearly all the protonic polaron equipment you need, as well as the proton-boosting consoles and the Solanae Hybrid Set, for very low cost (the grinding of a rep vs. fleet credits + dilithium).
We might be looking at Dyson being a new standard for high quality "default" gear for end-game PVE players.
The Rom version is already earmarked for my primary PvP toon (my sci on fedside).
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been there, done that and completely agree:
2 borg, fleet singcore with AMP, elite shields, valdore-console, plasmonic leech ...everything else should be an obvious piece of cake.
now to just get some AP wonder if the voth stuff is still cheap-ish
Saving up my 400 Qmendations for next year and hoping for the best. I've got other things I'd rather be doing and need to be doing than "Party Patrol" day after day.
Highly unlikely to want any of the three C-Store ship bundles. We'll see when the stats come out, but I'm well equipped with Fed ships already.
Other than that, I'll run the FE for the Solanae gear and settle for the 2 or 3 pc bonus. The shields and impulse engines are worth getting. Not sure about the deflector.
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All and all it has become my new main ship and i cant wait to get the cstore versions