The STO playerbase is hemorrhaging because they vast majority are sick and tired of the grinding and repetitiveness. There are fleets that actually had members in high hundreds, which are now empty. If that's not evidence enough, then I don't know what will.
And you want to bring in new players? New players aren't going to stick around for long compared to veterans who been here for years, because new players don't have much of an investment compared to veteran players who put in hundreds or even thousands of dollars. They will come back, as long as there is interesting things to do. But the way Cryptic is doing things, they play for a month and exhaust the content, go back to whatever other MMO they are playing and wait for the next interesting thing to come about.
That's why I think their efforts is a waste, and they know it. All you have to do is look at Season 8 comments and go to the Sphere and see their populations.
Okay. Where do you think tomorrow's veterans will come from if not new players? How would the game survive at a point where, say, you hate it or are bored with it and never want to see it again?
And I'm not sure players who dislike repetition are the target for an MMO. MMOs are repetition and novelty intersecting in various odd ways. So if repetition drives you away, maybe they need to find people who delight in repetition to fill the gap when you leave?
Perhaps, but if that's the case then how come since STO launched or the relauch with F2P, we never seen any complaints in the chat channels in game or on the forum saying it's too hard (on easy / normal mode)?
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it's not important, in fact I wanted it as well. But the way they are doing about it is wrong. It's like shining a TRIBBLE.
If their intention really was to improve the Tier 1 storyline missions, they should've given it a treatment like Azura and Doomsday. Instead all they did was dumb it down by removing mobs to fight, move spawn points closer in some cases to speed it up, and change up some scenery to make it all pretty. But they didn't improve the story at all. That's why I said what they are doing is a waste, especially when they removed content to make it easier. Because if it was so hard, then why nobody complained about it's difficulty in 4 years?
STO needs new players?
You sir are very much wrong. What Cryptic needs to do is keep their playerbase interested in playing this game. This MMO has been out for 4 years, 2 as F2P (after a massive advertisement campaign), if we get new players, it will be a trickle compared to when MMOs are new.
The STO playerbase is hemorrhaging because they vast majority are sick and tired of the grinding and repetitiveness. There are fleets that actually had members in high hundreds, which are now empty. If that's not evidence enough, then I don't know what will.
And you want to bring in new players? New players aren't going to stick around for long compared to veterans who been here for years, because new players don't have much of an investment compared to veteran players who put in hundreds or even thousands of dollars. They will come back, as long as there is interesting things to do. But the way Cryptic is doing things, they play for a month and exhaust the content, go back to whatever other MMO they are playing and wait for the next interesting thing to come about.
That's why I think their efforts is a waste, and they know it. All you have to do is look at Season 8 comments and go to the Sphere and see their populations.
I never said that the F2P crowd think the game was hard (far from it). But I'm saying that experienced gamers like us think it's easy, while the others opinions would vary widely
And as far as playerbase and what the games needs, you have strong opinions; that's clear. However, you're showing a tendency that you think you know what everyone else's opinions is... namely, 'the vast majority' that are sick & tired of repetitiveness - when that's the core of most MMO endgames - and Cryptic 'knowing' their efforts are a waste when it could be they think anything but that
There's no doubt there are people like that, and that the hemorrhaging is present, but I simply think you're overestimating several aspects
Also, making something easier isn't necessarily a bad thing It's easy to think it is, but that's not remotely the case in my experience
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Glad to see positive feedback for he revamp of these missions. It's great that you took the time to run through these, we knew there would be some lingering bugs from the work we did and that's exactly what Tribble is for! A couple of issues you spotted have already been squashed (like playing as a Vulcan and talking to Ambassador Sokketh), but there was some stuff in here that really couldn't have been found without your help.
Some of the stuff mentioned here is more global, and doesn't have to do with the revamp stuff (everything going grey, "talk to loot critter", etc.) but it's great that this is getting reported too.
I know the environment team worked very hard on updating the visual style of some of the maps to meet our new standards, and it's great to see them get recognized for kicking so much TRIBBLE.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
^This! We need more of that and it would be awesome if you could go back and incorporate specific dialog modications like that into more FED, KDF and ROM missions! Specific references to a players gender, race or ship make the game so much more personal and immersive.
Will the revamped Klingon War episode also get some VOs? B'Vat and Quinn, for instance... adding VOs for at least some of their lines would massively add to the episode's atmosphere.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
As an owner of a TOS Connie, an NX, and a cloaking ship, I'd be delighted to help you test this. Right up my alley, in fact! This is the kind of thing most likely to have a hiccup, and that's why I test. To explore strange, new maps... to seek out new bugs, so none else will have to face them... to boldly test where no one has tested before!
I'm not saying they didn't need love, but they didn't have to neuter it either.
And not going by what your friends said when you previous point was that people played the storyline missions more than Defera, the rest what you just said is just opinons and they likely left because they purely didn't like the game.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it's not important, in fact I wanted it as well. But the way they are doing about it is wrong. It's like shining a TRIBBLE.
If their intention really was to improve the Tier 1 storyline missions, they should've given it a treatment like Azura and Doomsday. Instead all they did was dumb it down by removing mobs to fight, move spawn points closer in some cases to speed it up, and change up some scenery to make it all pretty. But they didn't improve the story at all. That's why I said what they are doing is a waste, especially when they removed content to make it easier. Because if it was so hard, then why nobody complained about it's difficulty in 4 years?
STO needs new players?
You sir are very much wrong. What Cryptic needs to do is keep their playerbase interested in playing this game. This MMO has been out for 4 years, 2 as F2P (after a massive advertisement campaign), if we get new players, it will be a trickle compared to when MMOs are new.
The STO playerbase is hemorrhaging because they vast majority are sick and tired of the grinding and repetitiveness. There are fleets that actually had members in high hundreds, which are now empty. If that's not evidence enough, then I don't know what will.
And you want to bring in new players? New players aren't going to stick around for long compared to veterans who been here for years, because new players don't have much of an investment compared to veteran players who put in hundreds or even thousands of dollars. They will come back, as long as there is interesting things to do. But the way Cryptic is doing things, they play for a month and exhaust the content, go back to whatever other MMO they are playing and wait for the next interesting thing to come about.
That's why I think their efforts is a waste, and they know it. All you have to do is look at Season 8 comments and go to the Sphere and see their populations.
Um... I'm SORRY, but when your primary case is "an MMO doesn't need new players because the older ones are leaving," I can't help but laugh. If you want a game to survive while players leave, NEW PLAYERS is exactly what you need. I agree, the grind at endgame can, at times, be a bit dull and boring, and it DOES need to be spiced up. And, as well, some difficulty SHOULD be added. But the Dyson Rep is a good start to helping alleviate the grind. The changes Cryptic has made there reduce the grind time CONSIDERABLY, as well as making it feel more rewarding, and I eagerly await the retrofit of the older reputations to match it. But the big problem this game has, and has had since before F2P, is that this game is TOO endgame heavy. TOO much of the content, and the GOOD content at that, is focused on endgame. Sure, this means there's fun stuff to do after you finish leveling. But those friends I brought in to play with that left? They left because there wasn't enough enjoyment EARLY GAME.
Think really hard about the last few big updates - Season 5, Season 6, Season 7, Legacy of Romulus, and Season 8. Season 5 gave us the modern STFs - Endgame content, as well as the Event Calendar, with several max-level-only events. Season 6 gave us the fleet progression, with ALL of its gear focused at endgame and most of the content to support fleet progression focused on level 50 players. Season 7 brought Mol'Rihan and the Reputations - two very large chunks of endgame ONLY content, as WELL as a new Fleet holding. Legacy of Romulus gave us another reputation to augment a dead Adventure Zone, and a fleet holding. And Season 8? Another end-game adventure zone, another reputation, and another holding. And aside from all of this, how much content in this game can lower-leveled players access that is DESIGNED for max level? They certainly didn't design Red Alerts for people in Mirandas. And if you've ever been in a Fleet queued mission with a low-leveled player, you know how outperformed they get. That's a HUGE turnoff to new players. Other than the story missions, all of which have badly needed a polish for almost 4 years now, there is NOTHING to do at early levels. This needs to be fixed.
Compared to the massive load of end-game content, and the QUALITY of that content, early game (especially for the Feds) is ANEMIC. And the problem with endgame content is... if no one is willing to tough it out TO endgame, then having the best endgame content in the UNIVERSE will not save your game. Early game is FAR more important than endgame at this point. Because even if STO wasn't "hemorrhaging players," new players are still important to the diversity of a game. WoW would not have EVER grown to the size it did without new players and a strong early game. You CANNOT focus solely on late game. What we really, TRULY need, at this point, is a season with absolutely NO endgame focus. No new rep, no new Fleet holding. It needs to have one and only one focus: Fixing ALL the broken stuff. Redoing the rest of the Federation missions. Reworking the story. Fixing bugs (including Defera, yes). A season DEVOTED to improving the quality of life for players, especially new players. The new tutorial for the Feds was a start, and this is a good step. But this still needs more work. And frankly, at this point, endgame can wait. It's gotten a LOT of focus since launch, and early game really has not.
And Defera is not the same as Nukara outside of being an Adventure Zone. Players like Defera because its a great place to get a bunch of great Fleet Marks and Omega Marks at the same time, only thing they have to contend with is Borg and 3-year old bugs. Nukara however is just a frustrating place of rapidly spawning Tholians that spam you, which is why players hate that place. The only way Cryptic will ever see people return there en mass is if they restore the Fleet Mark farming after the zone launched.
Are you kidding? I can get Fleet Marks faster running Azure Nebula, Colony Invasion and Fed Fleet Alert. And add onto that Commendation Reports, and you've got a HUGE source of the bloody things. Defera isn't a good source of ANYTHING. There are missions that are faster, easier, and far more rewarding, that do not inspire competition and feelings of "oh god, other players, go away". Which is ALWAYS my feeling on Defera because everyone's doing the same thing and a lot of the missions rely on loot drops. The last time I was on Defera, I had no issues with bugs (save the Probe mission completing map wise if anyone killed an ETAG). And yes, that was actually fairly recently (about a month or so). I spent three hours going through most of the areas doing missions. At the end of it, I didn't have more than 100 marks of ANY kind to show for it. My biggest moment of enjoyment was spamming the prototype Anti-Borg Devices to see what they'd do. I could get 100 Omega Marks from an ISE run in 10 minutes or less. I could get a hundred FLEET Marks running Fleet Alert and Colony Invasion, and spend 30 minutes, TOPS. All this I cannot do in three hours on Defera, because other players are doing the same thing and getting in the way. You can't kill a group that's already dead, and you can't gather loot that another player's already picked up. Why anyone would go to Defera besides the novelty of it is beyond me. It is, in a word, inefficient.
and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
I tried doing it with a cloaked ship, fleet defiant to be exact, but the dialogue boxes de-cloak me, didn't notice any alternate text.
Glad to see positive feedback for he revamp of these missions. It's great that you took the time to run through these, we knew there would be some lingering bugs from the work we did and that's exactly what Tribble is for! A couple of issues you spotted have already been squashed (like playing as a Vulcan and talking to Ambassador Sokketh), but there was some stuff in here that really couldn't have been found without your help.
Some of the stuff mentioned here is more global, and doesn't have to do with the revamp stuff (everything going grey, "talk to loot critter", etc.) but it's great that this is getting reported too.
I know the environment team worked very hard on updating the visual style of some of the maps to meet our new standards, and it's great to see them get recognized for kicking so much TRIBBLE.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
Did you tell the environment team about the grass in the Kuvah'magh? I run STO at maximum and that killed my FPS.
And also, the accolade named something like "The Code to the Luggage", what a great Spaceballs reference.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying.
Can we please please please get this functionality (and the race specific dialogues) in the Foundry?
Found a little bug - before you beam up to your ship after talking to the Guardian when completing "Past Imperfect", if you jump into the Guardian's portal again, it cancels your mission progress and you have to do the part in the past all over again.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
I just ran Past Imperfect in my old NX. No new dialogue when I meet the Enterprise, but I had item visuals on AND I was using non-stock hull material and paint jobs. I'll go make it canon and see if that does it. While that goes, I'll go pull my much older copy of that char out of mothballs and see about the TOS Connie. Results will be edited onto this post.
EDIT: Nothing in MY TOS Connie (see below). Probably not in yet.
I just ran Past Imperfect in my old NX. No new dialogue when I meet the Enterprise, but I had item visuals on AND I was using non-stock hull material and paint jobs. I'll go make it canon and see if that does it. While that goes, I'll go pull my much older copy of that char out of mothballs and see about the TOS Connie. Results will be edited onto this post.
I just did the TOS Connie. No changes.
Maybe Cryptic forgot to put the updated version of the mission on tribble? Because when I ran it Friday I didn't notice any changes at all.
All games do. If you don't have a steady stream of new players you die. It's inevitable. No game is THAT good that it will have 100% player retention. Thus you have to make the game inviting for new players. This is why Cryptic decided to work on improving the storyline missions.
I was being sarcastic. /facepalm
And you said they decided to work on improving the storyline..........where exactly? I honestly do not see changing spawn points, removing mobs to fight, or changing the scenery is improving the story, I honestly don't. When I think of improving the story, I think of more dialogue, cutscenes, more interactions. That sort of thing. Which is what they did to improve Stranded in Space, adding Vulcan ground to Diplomatic Orders, or the massive overhaul for Doomsday. That's what I'm trying to get to, but for some reason everyone here wants to disagree.
Okay. Where do you think tomorrow's veterans will come from if not new players? How would the game survive at a point where, say, you hate it or are bored with it and never want to see it again?
Sorry, you didn't get the sarcasm. Like I said above, new players are important, but so is retaining players.
And I'm not sure players who dislike repetition are the target for an MMO. MMOs are repetition and novelty intersecting in various odd ways. So if repetition drives you away, maybe they need to find people who delight in repetition to fill the gap when you leave?
Now your arguing mechanics, which is too late for STO.
Lets focus on these changes they are doing. Do you honestly think that the current changes we see on Tribble is going to get players to play these missions again (outside of the first week after the patch?) Do you honestly think these tweeks is going to get new players to stay when they fly though these missions and get to endgame? That's what I'm getting at, the Team isn't doing enough.
I never said that the F2P crowd think the game was hard (far from it). But I'm saying that experienced gamers like us think it's easy, while the others opinions would vary widely
And as far as playerbase and what the games needs, you have strong opinions; that's clear. However, you're showing a tendency that you think you know what everyone else's opinions is... namely, 'the vast majority' that are sick & tired of repetitiveness - when that's the core of most MMO endgames - and Cryptic 'knowing' their efforts are a waste when it could be they think anything but that
There's no doubt there are people like that, and that the hemorrhaging is present, but I simply think you're overestimating several aspects
Also, making something easier isn't necessarily a bad thing It's easy to think it is, but that's not remotely the case in my experience
That may be so, because they are still in the learning curve. But if you are on a fresh character with commons and flying through the content, even you have to admit the challenge isn't there and will bore people.
And as far as playerbase and what the games needs, you have strong opinions; that's clear. However, you're showing a tendency that you think you know what everyone else's opinions is... namely, 'the vast majority' that are sick & tired of repetitiveness - when that's the core of most MMO endgames - and Cryptic 'knowing' their efforts are a waste when it could be they think anything but that
There's no doubt there are people like that, and that the hemorrhaging is present, but I simply think you're overestimating several aspects
Also, making something easier isn't necessarily a bad thing It's easy to think it is, but that's not remotely the case in my experience
While you accuse me of overestimating, I think you're grossly underestimating. You say it's a normal thing for people to leave MMOs, but when they don't come back, that hurts more than new players who are taste testing.
Think really hard about the last few big updates - Season 5, Season 6, Season 7, Legacy of Romulus, and Season 8. Season 5 gave us the modern STFs - Endgame content, as well as the Event Calendar, with several max-level-only events. Season 6 gave us the fleet progression, with ALL of its gear focused at endgame and most of the content to support fleet progression focused on level 50 players. Season 7 brought Mol'Rihan and the Reputations - two very large chunks of endgame ONLY content, as WELL as a new Fleet holding. Legacy of Romulus gave us another reputation to augment a dead Adventure Zone, and a fleet holding. And Season 8? Another end-game adventure zone, another reputation, and another holding. And aside from all of this, how much content in this game can lower-leveled players access that is DESIGNED for max level? They certainly didn't design Red Alerts for people in Mirandas. And if you've ever been in a Fleet queued mission with a low-leveled player, you know how outperformed they get. That's a HUGE turnoff to new players. Other than the story missions, all of which have badly needed a polish for almost 4 years now, there is NOTHING to do at early levels. This needs to be fixed.
Compared to the massive load of end-game content, and the QUALITY of that content, early game (especially for the Feds) is ANEMIC. And the problem with endgame content is... if no one is willing to tough it out TO endgame, then having the best endgame content in the UNIVERSE will not save your game. Early game is FAR more important than endgame at this point. Because even if STO wasn't "hemorrhaging players," new players are still important to the diversity of a game. WoW would not have EVER grown to the size it did without new players and a strong early game. You CANNOT focus solely on late game. What we really, TRULY need, at this point, is a season with absolutely NO endgame focus. No new rep, no new Fleet holding. It needs to have one and only one focus: Fixing ALL the broken stuff. Redoing the rest of the Federation missions. Reworking the story. Fixing bugs (including Defera, yes). A season DEVOTED to improving the quality of life for players, especially new players. The new tutorial for the Feds was a start, and this is a good step. But this still needs more work. And frankly, at this point, endgame can wait. It's gotten a LOT of focus since launch, and early game really has not.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE HAVE TO CONSTANTLY DISAGREE! These revamps are like twinking than actual revamping. Lets see Azura-Doomsday level revamp, ADD STORY, ADD FUN! Not shortcuting and removing mobs so they go through the content faster!
Are you kidding? I can get Fleet Marks faster running Azure Nebula, Colony Invasion and Fed Fleet Alert. And add onto that Commendation Reports, and you've got a HUGE source of the bloody things. Defera isn't a good source of ANYTHING. There are missions that are faster, easier, and far more rewarding, that do not inspire competition and feelings of "oh god, other players, go away". Which is ALWAYS my feeling on Defera because everyone's doing the same thing and a lot of the missions rely on loot drops. The last time I was on Defera, I had no issues with bugs (save the Probe mission completing map wise if anyone killed an ETAG). And yes, that was actually fairly recently (about a month or so). I spent three hours going through most of the areas doing missions. At the end of it, I didn't have more than 100 marks of ANY kind to show for it. My biggest moment of enjoyment was spamming the prototype Anti-Borg Devices to see what they'd do. I could get 100 Omega Marks from an ISE run in 10 minutes or less. I could get a hundred FLEET Marks running Fleet Alert and Colony Invasion, and spend 30 minutes, TOPS. All this I cannot do in three hours on Defera, because other players are doing the same thing and getting in the way. You can't kill a group that's already dead, and you can't gather loot that another player's already picked up. Why anyone would go to Defera besides the novelty of it is beyond me. It is, in a word, inefficient.
Takes 10-15 minutes to earn 300 Fleet Marks on Defera, while you get 40 Fleet Marks by doing Azura, 120 for doing FRA and Colony Invasion. You're way faster? I don't think so.
And I bet a whole bunch of other players would disagree with you as well, saying Defera is useless.
Only better method of earning Fleet Marks is farming NWS, which technically is an exploit by how some people do it.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE HAVE TO CONSTANTLY DISAGREE! These revamps are like twinking than actual revamping. Lets see Azura-Doomsday level revamp, ADD STORY, ADD FUN! Not shortcuting and removing mobs so they go through the content faster!
I agree that this needs to be done. But that is a Season update. This is a supplement. Ino ther words, A GOOD START. I'd rather have this and have the work continue later than let the problems languish for another year.
Takes 10-15 minutes to earn 300 Fleet Marks on Defera, while you get 40 Fleet Marks by doing Azura, 120 for doing FRA and Colony Invasion. You're way faster? I don't think so.
And I bet a whole bunch of other players would disagree with you as well, saying Defera is useless.
Only better method of earning Fleet Marks is farming NWS, which technically is an exploit by how some people do it.
Yea, I'm going to call your BS. No mission REWARDS enough to get that kind of rate out of Defera. I'd know, I picked ALL of them up last time I was there. Assuming you SOMEHOW did all of them in 15 minutes, there's nowhere near enough there, and none completes fast enough. The burden of proof is on you: Record a video getting this "300 marks in 15 minutes." Otherwise, I call bull. I've never gotten more than ten in that time on Defera.
Agreed He has strong opinions, as I've noted, but is a bit stubborn. He seems to think most people desire (or should desire) challenge... which is simply not the case
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I know the environment team worked very hard on updating the visual style of some of the maps to meet our new standards, and it's great to see them get recognized for kicking so much TRIBBLE.
Well the new Kassae 4 ground map is beautiful.
I'm kinda wondering why the invisiwalls are there though. I marked them in orange and red on this map. I marked the map edge in blue. It makes sense not to let people crawl inside the new bushes. But... blocking access to the swamps seems pointless. You can't wander THAT far.... it's not much farther to the map edge.
Oh and I loved the dusk effect! Whenever you get close to the edges of the map it suddenly gets dark. It's like going from an area with a few trees to an area with a heavy canopy.
I'm kinda wondering why the invisiwalls are there though. I marked them in orange and red on this map. I marked the map edge in blue. It makes sense not to let people crawl inside the new bushes. But... blocking access to the swamps seems pointless. You can't wander THAT far.... it's not much farther to the map edge.
Oh and I loved the dusk effect! Whenever you get close to the edges of the map it suddenly gets dark. It's like going from an area with a few trees to an area with a heavy canopy.
Say, are you using your DeviantArt username on a certain uncanny x-men forum too?:D
I agree that this needs to be done. But that is a Season update. This is a supplement. Ino ther words, A GOOD START. I'd rather have this and have the work continue later than let the problems languish for another year.
Perhaps a start, but I like to see them say that they are planning to go further with these improvements down the road.
Yea, I'm going to call your BS. No mission REWARDS enough to get that kind of rate out of Defera. I'd know, I picked ALL of them up last time I was there. Assuming you SOMEHOW did all of them in 15 minutes, there's nowhere near enough there, and none completes fast enough. The burden of proof is on you: Record a video getting this "300 marks in 15 minutes." Otherwise, I call bull. I've never gotten more than ten in that time on Defera.
No mission rewards enough? All four Deferi Hard missions yield anywhere between 68 to 78 Fleet Marks, and people on Defera do this all the time. In fact there this is the only place KDF can earn Fleet Marks these days and there is a KDFDefera channel where KDF players meet up. Takes no more than 20 minutes, 10-15 if certain bugs don't hit.
If you don't believe me, feel free to travel to Defera and see people LFG Hards in zone chat.
This is why I pointed out Defera, because there are bugs that been needing fixed for three years in an active zone. Players who aren't too happy that the Dev Team is working on revamps than fixing bugs.
This is why I pointed out Defera, because there are bugs that been needing fixed for three years in an active zone. Players who aren't too happy that the Dev Team is working on revamps than fixing bugs.
That's business as usual. It's impossible to please everyone. No matter what the devs do, some part of the player base will be unhappy about it.
That's business as usual. It's impossible to please everyone. No matter what the devs do, some part of the player base will be unhappy about it.
No, you can't please everyone. But in this case, can you blame them?
Not exactly a good message for new players now is it? Especially when they run into those bugs and they hear its a bug that's been around for years.
Mission Reviews (Continued):
Treasure Station:
Feels more like a Bar, though like Drozana, needs some flavor like advertisements or signs to give it a solid bar look. The Hanger seems better for some reason, but think you should use the Toron Runabouts to give the feeling they came all in one shuttle than small shuttlepods. And the those imprisoned behind the forcefields, feels like they could climb on the boxes and get to another cell, so doesn't feel like they are really imprisoned. The Captain Fight is rather fast, too bad you can't spice it up where you have to fight him 1 on 1 (crew watches or "taking care of other things".
Final Fight, doesn't seem right for a 100 year old ship to take out an Negh'var. But that's me.
Okay, but needs umph.
Secret Orders / Briar Patch:
The one flaw, for years, that I wished was fixed, was the Briar Patch mission itself. It's too easy to stay outside the Asteroids and the Metreon Gas. Now this is my opinion, but wish we had to brave the field and fight.
Breach the Door with Explosives - be nice if we set it first then detonated from a safe distance.
The Weapon Room - This time I won't complain about the NPC groups being removed, this one was a pain since you fought 2 groups at once in the past. But I suggest you split the 2 groups to the other side so it gives the feel that the room is full. Also be nice if you added some consoles to give the feeling they are working on them.
Also, need to do something about the glow in the Briar Patch, sometimes that can get rather blinding.
I thought you wanted to check what accolades are still available / got broken Azurian? Haven't read anything about those yet.
Not like you couldn't help Duke. :rolleyes:
So far:
Lost 5: Mended Wing from TFH and the four from WiGfB.
New: Luggage from Stop the Signal.
Fire Surpression from Researcher Rescue requires a second play to complete the accolade. The Devs need to add the missing fires for a single play or a counter on the accolade pages saying there is an accolade in this mission that's not complete.
Task Force Hippocrates Feedback:
Was surprised the new change, the new Station felt more appropriate than the old outside model. Though that said, while acceptable, I personally wish it looked more like a Vulcan station.
Not surprised the U.S.S. Eagle was removed, the interior was always an eyesore, but sad that the mission feels too short now.
Comments
Okay. Where do you think tomorrow's veterans will come from if not new players? How would the game survive at a point where, say, you hate it or are bored with it and never want to see it again?
And I'm not sure players who dislike repetition are the target for an MMO. MMOs are repetition and novelty intersecting in various odd ways. So if repetition drives you away, maybe they need to find people who delight in repetition to fill the gap when you leave?
And as far as playerbase and what the games needs, you have strong opinions; that's clear. However, you're showing a tendency that you think you know what everyone else's opinions is... namely, 'the vast majority' that are sick & tired of repetitiveness - when that's the core of most MMO endgames - and Cryptic 'knowing' their efforts are a waste when it could be they think anything but that
There's no doubt there are people like that, and that the hemorrhaging is present, but I simply think you're overestimating several aspects
Also, making something easier isn't necessarily a bad thing
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
It might be best, if you discuss your thoughts in a new thread dedicated to questioning the whole idea itself, azurianstar.
STOWiki admin.
Maybe he ate the wrong Bran Flakes.
Some of the stuff mentioned here is more global, and doesn't have to do with the revamp stuff (everything going grey, "talk to loot critter", etc.) but it's great that this is getting reported too.
I know the environment team worked very hard on updating the visual style of some of the maps to meet our new standards, and it's great to see them get recognized for kicking so much TRIBBLE.
One thing you guys can really help test is that there are slight modifications to dialog when you go back in time and first meet the Enterprise based on what ship you are flying. NX, TOS Connie, Temporal Ships, Romulans ships, and if you are cloaked should have some mention of how your ship is/will be perceived by the crew of the TOS Enterprise. It's just a tiny modification to the dialog, but I had fun with it.
Thanks again!
^This! We need more of that and it would be awesome if you could go back and incorporate specific dialog modications like that into more FED, KDF and ROM missions! Specific references to a players gender, race or ship make the game so much more personal and immersive.
Will the revamped Klingon War episode also get some VOs? B'Vat and Quinn, for instance... adding VOs for at least some of their lines would massively add to the episode's atmosphere.
STOWiki admin.
As an owner of a TOS Connie, an NX, and a cloaking ship, I'd be delighted to help you test this. Right up my alley, in fact! This is the kind of thing most likely to have a hiccup, and that's why I test. To explore strange, new maps... to seek out new bugs, so none else will have to face them... to boldly test where no one has tested before!
Um... I'm SORRY, but when your primary case is "an MMO doesn't need new players because the older ones are leaving," I can't help but laugh. If you want a game to survive while players leave, NEW PLAYERS is exactly what you need. I agree, the grind at endgame can, at times, be a bit dull and boring, and it DOES need to be spiced up. And, as well, some difficulty SHOULD be added. But the Dyson Rep is a good start to helping alleviate the grind. The changes Cryptic has made there reduce the grind time CONSIDERABLY, as well as making it feel more rewarding, and I eagerly await the retrofit of the older reputations to match it. But the big problem this game has, and has had since before F2P, is that this game is TOO endgame heavy. TOO much of the content, and the GOOD content at that, is focused on endgame. Sure, this means there's fun stuff to do after you finish leveling. But those friends I brought in to play with that left? They left because there wasn't enough enjoyment EARLY GAME.
Think really hard about the last few big updates - Season 5, Season 6, Season 7, Legacy of Romulus, and Season 8. Season 5 gave us the modern STFs - Endgame content, as well as the Event Calendar, with several max-level-only events. Season 6 gave us the fleet progression, with ALL of its gear focused at endgame and most of the content to support fleet progression focused on level 50 players. Season 7 brought Mol'Rihan and the Reputations - two very large chunks of endgame ONLY content, as WELL as a new Fleet holding. Legacy of Romulus gave us another reputation to augment a dead Adventure Zone, and a fleet holding. And Season 8? Another end-game adventure zone, another reputation, and another holding. And aside from all of this, how much content in this game can lower-leveled players access that is DESIGNED for max level? They certainly didn't design Red Alerts for people in Mirandas. And if you've ever been in a Fleet queued mission with a low-leveled player, you know how outperformed they get. That's a HUGE turnoff to new players. Other than the story missions, all of which have badly needed a polish for almost 4 years now, there is NOTHING to do at early levels. This needs to be fixed.
Compared to the massive load of end-game content, and the QUALITY of that content, early game (especially for the Feds) is ANEMIC. And the problem with endgame content is... if no one is willing to tough it out TO endgame, then having the best endgame content in the UNIVERSE will not save your game. Early game is FAR more important than endgame at this point. Because even if STO wasn't "hemorrhaging players," new players are still important to the diversity of a game. WoW would not have EVER grown to the size it did without new players and a strong early game. You CANNOT focus solely on late game. What we really, TRULY need, at this point, is a season with absolutely NO endgame focus. No new rep, no new Fleet holding. It needs to have one and only one focus: Fixing ALL the broken stuff. Redoing the rest of the Federation missions. Reworking the story. Fixing bugs (including Defera, yes). A season DEVOTED to improving the quality of life for players, especially new players. The new tutorial for the Feds was a start, and this is a good step. But this still needs more work. And frankly, at this point, endgame can wait. It's gotten a LOT of focus since launch, and early game really has not.
Are you kidding? I can get Fleet Marks faster running Azure Nebula, Colony Invasion and Fed Fleet Alert. And add onto that Commendation Reports, and you've got a HUGE source of the bloody things. Defera isn't a good source of ANYTHING. There are missions that are faster, easier, and far more rewarding, that do not inspire competition and feelings of "oh god, other players, go away". Which is ALWAYS my feeling on Defera because everyone's doing the same thing and a lot of the missions rely on loot drops. The last time I was on Defera, I had no issues with bugs (save the Probe mission completing map wise if anyone killed an ETAG). And yes, that was actually fairly recently (about a month or so). I spent three hours going through most of the areas doing missions. At the end of it, I didn't have more than 100 marks of ANY kind to show for it. My biggest moment of enjoyment was spamming the prototype Anti-Borg Devices to see what they'd do. I could get 100 Omega Marks from an ISE run in 10 minutes or less. I could get a hundred FLEET Marks running Fleet Alert and Colony Invasion, and spend 30 minutes, TOPS. All this I cannot do in three hours on Defera, because other players are doing the same thing and getting in the way. You can't kill a group that's already dead, and you can't gather loot that another player's already picked up. Why anyone would go to Defera besides the novelty of it is beyond me. It is, in a word, inefficient.
I tried doing it with a cloaked ship, fleet defiant to be exact, but the dialogue boxes de-cloak me, didn't notice any alternate text.
And also, the accolade named something like "The Code to the Luggage", what a great Spaceballs reference.
Can we please please please get this functionality (and the race specific dialogues) in the Foundry?
I just ran Past Imperfect in my old NX. No new dialogue when I meet the Enterprise, but I had item visuals on AND I was using non-stock hull material and paint jobs. I'll go make it canon and see if that does it. While that goes, I'll go pull my much older copy of that char out of mothballs and see about the TOS Connie. Results will be edited onto this post.
EDIT: Nothing in MY TOS Connie (see below). Probably not in yet.
I just did the TOS Connie. No changes.
Maybe Cryptic forgot to put the updated version of the mission on tribble? Because when I ran it Friday I didn't notice any changes at all.
I, too, tried the TOS Constitution class. No changes that I could detect, unless they're extremely subtle.
I also tried the Wells, and the dialogue didn't seem any different. I suspect the build with the dialog changes hasn't been implemented just yet.
Very excited to hear of these subtle shifts. I'm sure they're more work to implement than one would suspect, but it is much appreciated!
I was being sarcastic. /facepalm
And you said they decided to work on improving the storyline..........where exactly? I honestly do not see changing spawn points, removing mobs to fight, or changing the scenery is improving the story, I honestly don't. When I think of improving the story, I think of more dialogue, cutscenes, more interactions. That sort of thing. Which is what they did to improve Stranded in Space, adding Vulcan ground to Diplomatic Orders, or the massive overhaul for Doomsday. That's what I'm trying to get to, but for some reason everyone here wants to disagree.
Sorry, you didn't get the sarcasm. Like I said above, new players are important, but so is retaining players.
Now your arguing mechanics, which is too late for STO.
Lets focus on these changes they are doing. Do you honestly think that the current changes we see on Tribble is going to get players to play these missions again (outside of the first week after the patch?) Do you honestly think these tweeks is going to get new players to stay when they fly though these missions and get to endgame? That's what I'm getting at, the Team isn't doing enough.
That may be so, because they are still in the learning curve. But if you are on a fresh character with commons and flying through the content, even you have to admit the challenge isn't there and will bore people.
While you accuse me of overestimating, I think you're grossly underestimating. You say it's a normal thing for people to leave MMOs, but when they don't come back, that hurts more than new players who are taste testing.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE HAVE TO CONSTANTLY DISAGREE! These revamps are like twinking than actual revamping. Lets see Azura-Doomsday level revamp, ADD STORY, ADD FUN! Not shortcuting and removing mobs so they go through the content faster!
Takes 10-15 minutes to earn 300 Fleet Marks on Defera, while you get 40 Fleet Marks by doing Azura, 120 for doing FRA and Colony Invasion. You're way faster? I don't think so.
And I bet a whole bunch of other players would disagree with you as well, saying Defera is useless.
Only better method of earning Fleet Marks is farming NWS, which technically is an exploit by how some people do it.
Anyway, this thread is for the revamped Fed missions, not your ranting. I think we should stop.
Yea, I'm going to call your BS. No mission REWARDS enough to get that kind of rate out of Defera. I'd know, I picked ALL of them up last time I was there. Assuming you SOMEHOW did all of them in 15 minutes, there's nowhere near enough there, and none completes fast enough. The burden of proof is on you: Record a video getting this "300 marks in 15 minutes." Otherwise, I call bull. I've never gotten more than ten in that time on Defera.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I'm kinda wondering why the invisiwalls are there though. I marked them in orange and red on this map. I marked the map edge in blue. It makes sense not to let people crawl inside the new bushes. But... blocking access to the swamps seems pointless. You can't wander THAT far.... it's not much farther to the map edge.
Oh and I loved the dusk effect! Whenever you get close to the edges of the map it suddenly gets dark.
My character Tsin'xing
Say, are you using your DeviantArt username on a certain uncanny x-men forum too?:D
My character Tsin'xing
Perhaps a start, but I like to see them say that they are planning to go further with these improvements down the road.
No mission rewards enough? All four Deferi Hard missions yield anywhere between 68 to 78 Fleet Marks, and people on Defera do this all the time. In fact there this is the only place KDF can earn Fleet Marks these days and there is a KDFDefera channel where KDF players meet up. Takes no more than 20 minutes, 10-15 if certain bugs don't hit.
If you don't believe me, feel free to travel to Defera and see people LFG Hards in zone chat.
This is why I pointed out Defera, because there are bugs that been needing fixed for three years in an active zone. Players who aren't too happy that the Dev Team is working on revamps than fixing bugs.
My character Tsin'xing
No, you can't please everyone. But in this case, can you blame them?
Not exactly a good message for new players now is it? Especially when they run into those bugs and they hear its a bug that's been around for years.
Mission Reviews (Continued):
Treasure Station:
Feels more like a Bar, though like Drozana, needs some flavor like advertisements or signs to give it a solid bar look. The Hanger seems better for some reason, but think you should use the Toron Runabouts to give the feeling they came all in one shuttle than small shuttlepods. And the those imprisoned behind the forcefields, feels like they could climb on the boxes and get to another cell, so doesn't feel like they are really imprisoned. The Captain Fight is rather fast, too bad you can't spice it up where you have to fight him 1 on 1 (crew watches or "taking care of other things".
Final Fight, doesn't seem right for a 100 year old ship to take out an Negh'var. But that's me.
Okay, but needs umph.
Secret Orders / Briar Patch:
The one flaw, for years, that I wished was fixed, was the Briar Patch mission itself. It's too easy to stay outside the Asteroids and the Metreon Gas. Now this is my opinion, but wish we had to brave the field and fight.
Breach the Door with Explosives - be nice if we set it first then detonated from a safe distance.
The Weapon Room - This time I won't complain about the NPC groups being removed, this one was a pain since you fought 2 groups at once in the past. But I suggest you split the 2 groups to the other side so it gives the feel that the room is full. Also be nice if you added some consoles to give the feeling they are working on them.
Also, need to do something about the glow in the Briar Patch, sometimes that can get rather blinding.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Not like you couldn't help Duke. :rolleyes:
So far:
Lost 5: Mended Wing from TFH and the four from WiGfB.
New: Luggage from Stop the Signal.
Fire Surpression from Researcher Rescue requires a second play to complete the accolade. The Devs need to add the missing fires for a single play or a counter on the accolade pages saying there is an accolade in this mission that's not complete.
Task Force Hippocrates Feedback:
Was surprised the new change, the new Station felt more appropriate than the old outside model. Though that said, while acceptable, I personally wish it looked more like a Vulcan station.
Not surprised the U.S.S. Eagle was removed, the interior was always an eyesore, but sad that the mission feels too short now.