Well, to this point, I don't "call myself stupid for not thinking of it.", but if I'm presenting an idea for consideration, that's where the part of "I'm not going to necessarily think of ever angle & aspect this could affect", comes into play. That's actually part of why I personally, throw ideas out there, so I CAN get others' viewpoints, and takes on things.
On the next,
I may not let it drop, but as long as it's been a good discussion, I just may have to call it, "Agree to disagree", instead of getting toxic & nasty about it. Unfortunately, a great many people out in the world today, seem to have issues regarding any viewpoint other than their own, as valid. Whereas I look at it, "I can't learn anything, if I close my mind to ideas and people out there."
With dropping it, that's literally if I see no way around the issues that I hadn't thought of that were presented. If there's no compromise to be found and I can't find a way around something that in the end would be bad for the game (impo), then I'd drop it. Even if it was something that I thought would be really cool and really wanted, I'd drop it for the sake of balance in the game. I've called for more balancing (nerfs) on stuff I use than on stuff others use that I don't.
You know I was going to start posting really silly broken doffs...then I realised a lot of them are already in the games except.
One for photonics officer, it changes it so that they appear on the hull and start firing beer cans at the enemy which do 1 damage but have a 1% chance to instantly kill the enemy ship. It may also fire bad language that applies the debuff forum rage which causes the devs to lol at you.
So, I'd like the devs to add a buff to tractor beams (at least tier II and III tractor beams) that causes the targeted vessel to suffer "-50% energy weapons accuracy"
This would make the tractor beam a little more useful in combat...
TB is one of the single best kill-set up powers in the game.
Now you want it to cripple a target's defense, ability to move out of weapon arc andyou want it to cripple their weapons as well?
Tractor Beams are tools, NOT weapons. In the whole history of Star Trek, we've seen them used in combat once, MAYBE twice. In NO case, did the tractor beam cause damage to either shields or hull (though, Borg tractor beams seemed to... though I think that was simply another weapon draining the shields while the tractor just held the ship).
Actually, it makes a great deal more sense for Tractor Beams to cause (massive) hull damage than mysteriously debuffing accuracy. Don't believe me? Run away fast, and have someone grab you by your shirt: then tell me what happened to it.
Oh, and when your speed decreases (due to having, say, I dunno, a Tractor Beam on you), your accuracy should actually increase. LOL.
I'd also like to see less spamming of the things. Every enemy ship in the game just endlessly spams it, and it's really getting tiresome (because there's no way to defend against it - once, yes. 6 times? No.)
If they bother you so much, then spec some in Inertial Dampeners. Or use 2x Zemok, for a near perma-run ATO3.
Eh.. You mean 'make TB pull' right? How TBR with doff works now is how TB should have worked...
Gravitons pull. They always do. Even though Tractor Beams in-game are said to 'hold' only, it's still a pulling force exerted on the foe to hold him in-place. Since the enemies are generally in motion, the pull exerted should cause significant hull damage (up to the point where they are no longer in motion).
So, yeah, Tractor Beams should always pull: either to slow down a moving foe, or to pull them towards you when they're not moving (they're still also pulling when put on a foe who is moving: it just results in a hull-stress damage causing slow-down first).
More accurate to say that the beam exerts a force on the ship, which can either be a push or a pull or a hold, depending on how the particles are setup.
More accurate to say that the beam exerts a force on the ship, which can either be a push or a pull or a hold, depending on how the particles are setup.
Come to think of it, pulling isn't necessarily what you'd want, game-mechanics wise, in a Tractor Beam. At least not always. I normally want it to do precisely what it does already: hold an enemy within my 45 Arc (at a fixed distance).
Pulling, for example, as I found out with my reverse TBR, came with the (unexpected) effect of ships bundling up behind me. RTBR itself pulls evenly on all sides, of course; but your ship usually having forward momentum, means ships have a strong tendency to group up around your aft. Not a big deal, per se. In fact, I build a Vesta out of it, that does wicked Torp aft damage (in combination with RTBR, of course).
But yeah, for an Escort, a pulling TB may not be what ppl really want (even though ppl often ask for it, on the forums).
The technobabble at Memory Alpha and other sites would have me stand corrected on the manner in which I stated that - but the gist being that the TB could repulse. I guess that wouldn't really be needed mind you, although I was trying to conserve effort - think what Ulti said about a separate DOFF could work in it being a DOFF that worked with TBR to focus the push to a single target instead of multiple targets, rather than messing with TB, eh?
Though, I think that's something that should be inherent to TBR itself and not require a DOFF - an option to set it to an AoE or ST, eh?
The technobabble at Memory Alpha and other sites would have me stand corrected on the manner in which I stated that - but the gist being that the TB could repulse. I guess that wouldn't really be needed mind you, although I was trying to conserve effort - think what Ulti said about a separate DOFF could work in it being a DOFF that worked with TBR to focus the push to a single target instead of multiple targets, rather than messing with TB, eh?
Though, I think that's something that should be inherent to TBR itself and not require a DOFF - an option to set it to an AoE or ST, eh?
For the record, I wasn't opposed to a pushing TB.
Technically, a Gravimetric Scientist -- actually makes more sense than a TB Officer -- could reverse the field polarity of the Gravitions to make them repel, instead of pull (Did I just say 'reverse field polarity'?! OMG! I just officially became a nerd!) A doff to affect either state would, indeed, actually make more sense than to have 2 separate (TB/TBR) abilities.
Fine give me a Doff that makes TBR a single target ability.
We already have Doffs that give it shield drain, so what about a Doff that adds more kinetic damage, or applies a Plasma DoT. Maybe one that drains something other than shields, like Aux, or Weapons. A doff that would turn TB into a pull would be kind of cool, single target tow rope. :eek:
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I like the idea of tractor beam doing something unique. In PVP? Even if someone has polarize hull, I'd be shocked to find tactical ships without attack pattern omega. I'd be equally shocked to find a captain who wouldn't defend ATO's anti-tractor beam component to the death. The entire logic of it being "OMG! I needz ATO or I'd have to pick a science ship with the slots for polarize hull! That's unfair!" (Well, maybe with a bit more grace :P)
...
Having tractor beam do damage based on relative mass or speeds or affecting accuracy from a ship being tossed like a rag doll sounds like a excellent use
Comments
I can get quite toxic & nasty with myself.
With dropping it, that's literally if I see no way around the issues that I hadn't thought of that were presented. If there's no compromise to be found and I can't find a way around something that in the end would be bad for the game (impo), then I'd drop it. Even if it was something that I thought would be really cool and really wanted, I'd drop it for the sake of balance in the game. I've called for more balancing (nerfs) on stuff I use than on stuff others use that I don't.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What if the same DOFF that makes TBR pull could also make TB push?
One for photonics officer, it changes it so that they appear on the hull and start firing beer cans at the enemy which do 1 damage but have a 1% chance to instantly kill the enemy ship. It may also fire bad language that applies the debuff forum rage which causes the devs to lol at you.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
TB is one of the single best kill-set up powers in the game.
Now you want it to cripple a target's defense, ability to move out of weapon arc and you want it to cripple their weapons as well?
All at Ensign level Sci.
Surely, you can't be serious.
Actually, it makes a great deal more sense for Tractor Beams to cause (massive) hull damage than mysteriously debuffing accuracy. Don't believe me? Run away fast, and have someone grab you by your shirt: then tell me what happened to it.
Oh, and when your speed decreases (due to having, say, I dunno, a Tractor Beam on you), your accuracy should actually increase. LOL.
If they bother you so much, then spec some in Inertial Dampeners. Or use 2x Zemok, for a near perma-run ATO3.
Tl;dr: make like a Borg, and [Adapt]
My point exactly! Some ppl just want too much.
which could also increase their sif.
for that modified tractor beam that cause a 50% effectiveness,
I don't think it at the same time slowed them.
having a tractor that repulses would be nice too.
basically, I think it'd be cool to see more variety.
as long as anything new doesn't break things.
Brilliant!! :eek:
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cool idea, although it should be a different DOFF and not the same one IMO.
Eh.. You mean 'make TB pull' right? How TBR with doff works now is how TB should have worked...
Gravitons pull. They always do. Even though Tractor Beams in-game are said to 'hold' only, it's still a pulling force exerted on the foe to hold him in-place. Since the enemies are generally in motion, the pull exerted should cause significant hull damage (up to the point where they are no longer in motion).
So, yeah, Tractor Beams should always pull: either to slow down a moving foe, or to pull them towards you when they're not moving (they're still also pulling when put on a foe who is moving: it just results in a hull-stress damage causing slow-down first).
Come to think of it, pulling isn't necessarily what you'd want, game-mechanics wise, in a Tractor Beam. At least not always. I normally want it to do precisely what it does already: hold an enemy within my 45 Arc (at a fixed distance).
Pulling, for example, as I found out with my reverse TBR, came with the (unexpected) effect of ships bundling up behind me. RTBR itself pulls evenly on all sides, of course; but your ship usually having forward momentum, means ships have a strong tendency to group up around your aft. Not a big deal, per se. In fact, I build a Vesta out of it, that does wicked Torp aft damage (in combination with RTBR, of course).
But yeah, for an Escort, a pulling TB may not be what ppl really want (even though ppl often ask for it, on the forums).
Though, I think that's something that should be inherent to TBR itself and not require a DOFF - an option to set it to an AoE or ST, eh?
For the record, I wasn't opposed to a pushing TB.
Technically, a Gravimetric Scientist -- actually makes more sense than a TB Officer -- could reverse the field polarity of the Gravitions to make them repel, instead of pull (Did I just say 'reverse field polarity'?! OMG! I just officially became a nerd!) A doff to affect either state would, indeed, actually make more sense than to have 2 separate (TB/TBR) abilities.
We already have Doffs that give it shield drain, so what about a Doff that adds more kinetic damage, or applies a Plasma DoT. Maybe one that drains something other than shields, like Aux, or Weapons. A doff that would turn TB into a pull would be kind of cool, single target tow rope. :eek:
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Radiation" is a broad term, but no matter how it applies it is a physical object. A given rad is a object just with lots of energy and low mass.
Magnetism is defined as a radiation (well the affect of one anyway). The earth's EM field has all kinds of affects on solar radiation.
I like the idea of tractor beam doing something unique. In PVP? Even if someone has polarize hull, I'd be shocked to find tactical ships without attack pattern omega. I'd be equally shocked to find a captain who wouldn't defend ATO's anti-tractor beam component to the death. The entire logic of it being "OMG! I needz ATO or I'd have to pick a science ship with the slots for polarize hull! That's unfair!" (Well, maybe with a bit more grace :P)
...
Having tractor beam do damage based on relative mass or speeds or affecting accuracy from a ship being tossed like a rag doll sounds like a excellent use