If it was on TV or in the movies, its canon. Into Darkness was an incredibly crappy movie with a script that makes second season Voyager seem like Dostoyevsky, but it's canon.
But whoever made that star map back in the day should be proud of themselves for setting the standard.
'Canon' in this case is an awkward definition. It's canon, but it's also not the Prime universe. Now it is an aspect that wouldn't make sense to be different because of Nero, but it also didn't make much sense that Starfleet would build a shipyard in Iowa [and then launch from San Francisco] either.
It's canon, but not everything that happens in those movies is automatically relevant for the Prime Universe.
With regards to the Kronos vs Qo'noS stuff:
it's not uncommon to give cities or nations a name or spelling that fits the nation that writes its name. The German city "Aachen" is called "Aix-la-Chapelle" in French and "Koeln" is called "Cologne" in English.
It's canon, but not everything that happens in those movies is automatically relevant for the Prime Universe.
With regards to the Kronos vs Qo'noS stuff:
it's not uncommon to give cities or nations a name or spelling that fits the nation that writes its name. The German city "Aachen" is called "Aix-la-Chapelle" in French and "Koeln" is called "Cologne" in English.
Yeah, variant spellings are really the norm when dealing with multiple languages, like aluminum and aluminium. :P
Missed the point. There are two scenes in the movie where both of them should have the same spelling. They could have gone with Qo'nos (Pronounced Kronos) in that one scene or both of them go with Kronos. This just shows that someone wasn't doing their job properly.
No, it shows they were following The Will of the Almighty Abrams. No effort wasted on silliness like spelling or continuity when it could be put to use obscuring the screen with "MOAR LENS FLARE!!!1!!!"
It's canon, but not everything that happens in those movies is automatically relevant for the Prime Universe.
With regards to the Kronos vs Qo'noS stuff:
it's not uncommon to give cities or nations a name or spelling that fits the nation that writes its name. The German city "Aachen" is called "Aix-la-Chapelle" in French and "Koeln" is called "Cologne" in English.
Several years ago, the government of South Korea even tried to change the official English spelling of the country's name to "Corea". Needless to say, Americans have more or less completely ignored this. Maybe the JJ-verse Feds are giving their Klingons the same treatment.
Several years ago, the government of South Korea even tried to change the official English spelling of the country's name to "Corea". Needless to say, Americans have more or less completely ignored this. Maybe the JJ-verse Feds are giving their Klingons the same treatment.
Interesting, actually didn't know that.
And yeah sounds like it. Mabye it's even just the English translation of the Vulcan word for it. The Vulcans had had contact with Klingons before humans did and most intel came from Vulcan "intelligence"...which also claimed Klingons don't use escape pods.;)
Several years ago, the government of South Korea even tried to change the official English spelling of the country's name to "Corea". Needless to say, this was more or less completely ignored. Maybe the JJ-verse Feds are giving their Klingons the same treatment.
It's a common feature of English language change to "anglicize" borrowed foreign words for ease of both pronunciation and spelling. Similar to your example is the Dutch city of Den Haag, which we'd call The Hague - an anglicization, and not a translation.
Although I can't claim to be a prescient exolinguist, I'd warrant that the same process would happen with regards to Kronos/Qo'nos. The Klingon language is an alien tongue with syntax and grammatical rules presumably dissimilar to those found on Earth. As is the way with English, we'd borrow the original Klingon word "Qo'nos" as a proper noun, but anglicize the spelling to fit our grammatical conventions and so it would become "Kronos".
Of course, Star Trek is a work of fiction, but you can easily apply the theory of language change to the words within it. Foreign words are frequently absorbed or borrowed ("bungalow" from India, for example) but some are adapted to fit our lexical and grammatical rules - as could have theoretically happened above.
But unless I'm mistaken the Delta Flyer was the first spacecraft to go underwater. Also, being out in space vs underwater, Like most spacecraft, the Enterprise is designed to keep between one and several atmospheres of pressure in, while the ship itself is exposed to the vacuum of space. This is a very different job than keeping out the pressure from tons of sea water over your head.
ship should of "exploded" in the sense you mean, because having a pressurized area without something pushing back like you could get in space, it would just expand until the area was exposed to space in a sort of unspectacular rip or fraying at the edges until the pressure was released through a small opening somewhere. however if there was little pressure inside this area and there was a lot of force on the outside, it would crush that area depending how this area was constructed and how much pressure there is inside.
guess these federation types build very thick armour parts for the hull and a solid internal support structure. but force fields could easily explain away that internal external force thing, as the forcefields provide external pressure to equalize the hull.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The issue is that spellings are consistent within a language for countries and cities. If Kronos is the Federation's interpretation of the word Qo'noS, then Kronos should be used for both scenes since Star Trek is from the point of view of the Federation and not the Klingon Empire. For example, although Koeln, Germany might be the right way to spell it, Cologne, Germany is what is used by English speakers consistently. We don't have some Americans refer to it as Koeln and other Americans refer to it as Cologne.
The issue is that spellings are consistent within a language for countries and cities. If Kronos is the Federation's interpretation of the word Qo'noS, then Kronos should be used for both scenes since Star Trek is from the point of view of the Federation and not the Klingon Empire. For example, although Koeln, Germany might be the right way to spell it, Cologne, Germany is what is used by English speakers consistently. We don't have some Americans refer to it as Koeln and other Americans refer to it as Cologne.
That might be true, but the Federation is a sector-spanning entity comprised of hundreds of individual worlds (not all, clearly, populated by humanity). Federation Standard - the "English" supposedly used in the Star Trek Universe - may have hundreds of individual dialects. Every world is home to billions of people, and across those individual worlds, it's highly unlikely that every person will adhere to a single grammatical standard - even in the U.K. and the U.S. spellings, definitions and pronunciations can vary from region to region.
Sure, it may just be a production inconsistency, but I think you can shoehorn a reasonable explanation in for it.
there is romanization of the russian language so it can be translated to english, some words we have in our dictionaries are from other languages like faux Pas, adios and so on. the entire english language is based on a Germanic language from its past. so Anglicizing certain names and words is just another form of assimilation into a language that has become somewhat a dominant language even though arabic, french, russian and spanish are just as common.
it looks like someone just messed up on the graphical design and only had one attempt at it with no way back. just another minor issue with jjcrap films.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That might be true, but the Federation is a sector-spanning entity comprised of hundreds of individual worlds (not all, clearly, populated by humanity). Federation Standard - the "English" supposedly used in the Star Trek Universe - may have hundreds of individual dialects. Every world is home to billions of people, and across those individual worlds, it's highly unlikely that every person will adhere to a single grammatical standard - even in the U.K. and the U.S. spellings, definitions and pronunciations can vary from region to region.
Sure, it may just be a production inconsistency, but I think you can shoehorn a reasonable explanation in for it.
you are forgetting the universal communication device that works passively in the comm badge for races to understand each other from tng and beyond. enterprise had a crude version of this device called the universal translator in the ship so it was likely completely updated and such over the decades. since ToS mostly had humans to explore guess a portable translator wasnt really needed.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The issue is that spellings are consistent within a language for countries and cities. If Kronos is the Federation's interpretation of the word Qo'noS, then Kronos should be used for both scenes since Star Trek is from the point of view of the Federation and not the Klingon Empire. For example, although Koeln, Germany might be the right way to spell it, Cologne, Germany is what is used by English speakers consistently. We don't have some Americans refer to it as Koeln and other Americans refer to it as Cologne.
This is generally true at one point in time, but things do change with transliterations over time. The capital city of China has gone from Peking to Beijing in the last century, and that's not even counting the Nationalists in Taiwan, who largely still use the variant Peiping. As a history major, I ran into a great many books that romanized the city as Peking, so it's entirely possible that one of these examples in Into Darkness is an older source in the library files that uses the older version, while another is more modern.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
there is romanization of the russian language so it can be translated to english, some words we have in our dictionaries are from other languages like faux Pas, adios and so on. the entire english language is based on a Germanic language from its past.
"It [English] not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary." - James Nicoll
The issue is that spellings are consistent within a language for countries and cities. If Kronos is the Federation's interpretation of the word Qo'noS, then Kronos should be used for both scenes since Star Trek is from the point of view of the Federation and not the Klingon Empire. For example, although Koeln, Germany might be the right way to spell it, Cologne, Germany is what is used by English speakers consistently. We don't have some Americans refer to it as Koeln and other Americans refer to it as Cologne.
Actually, that's not universally true. People who have been to that area are often more familiar with the right spelling than the Anglicized spelling. MOST people can't point to a map and show you where Frankreich and Osterreich are, but I can. :P
Actually, that's not universally true. People who have been to that area are often more familiar with the right spelling than the Anglicized spelling. MOST people can't point to a map and show you where Frankreich and Osterreich are, but I can. :P
"frank"reich is a dead give away to the old german tribe called franks who settled in france and called themselves french after that business with the romans. didnt need to anglicize that one :P
osterriech i know is austria because in my sim racing days the a1 ring was in osttereich and i never liked to sim race on that track.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Leela: "Five thousand feet!"
Farnsworth: "Dear Lord! That's over one hundred and fifty atmospheres of pressure."
Fry: "How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?"
Farnsworth: "Well, it's a space ship. So I'd say anywhere between zero and one."
Looking at Futurama for scientific accuracy is about as silly as looking at Star Trek for scientific accuracy.
The scene is easily handwaved with preexisting phlebotinum called the structural integrity field.
"It [English] not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary." - James Nicoll
This. English is weird, even by other languages' standards. It's Germanic at its base, but also incorporates a lot of concepts from Romance languages and gets loan words from all over the place.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
'Canon' in this case is an awkward definition. It's canon, but it's also not the Prime universe. Now it is an aspect that wouldn't make sense to be different because of Nero, but it also didn't make much sense that Starfleet would build a shipyard in Iowa [and then launch from San Francisco] either.
With regards to the Kronos vs Qo'noS stuff:
it's not uncommon to give cities or nations a name or spelling that fits the nation that writes its name. The German city "Aachen" is called "Aix-la-Chapelle" in French and "Koeln" is called "Cologne" in English.
My character Tsin'xing
No, it shows they were following The Will of the Almighty Abrams. No effort wasted on silliness like spelling or continuity when it could be put to use obscuring the screen with "MOAR LENS FLARE!!!1!!!"
Several years ago, the government of South Korea even tried to change the official English spelling of the country's name to "Corea". Needless to say, Americans have more or less completely ignored this. Maybe the JJ-verse Feds are giving their Klingons the same treatment.
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Interesting, actually didn't know that.
And yeah sounds like it. Mabye it's even just the English translation of the Vulcan word for it. The Vulcans had had contact with Klingons before humans did and most intel came from Vulcan "intelligence"...which also claimed Klingons don't use escape pods.;)
It's a common feature of English language change to "anglicize" borrowed foreign words for ease of both pronunciation and spelling. Similar to your example is the Dutch city of Den Haag, which we'd call The Hague - an anglicization, and not a translation.
Although I can't claim to be a prescient exolinguist, I'd warrant that the same process would happen with regards to Kronos/Qo'nos. The Klingon language is an alien tongue with syntax and grammatical rules presumably dissimilar to those found on Earth. As is the way with English, we'd borrow the original Klingon word "Qo'nos" as a proper noun, but anglicize the spelling to fit our grammatical conventions and so it would become "Kronos".
Of course, Star Trek is a work of fiction, but you can easily apply the theory of language change to the words within it. Foreign words are frequently absorbed or borrowed ("bungalow" from India, for example) but some are adapted to fit our lexical and grammatical rules - as could have theoretically happened above.
#It'sJustaGameAndAFreeOneAtThat!
Come Visit the 44th Fleet
ship should of "exploded" in the sense you mean, because having a pressurized area without something pushing back like you could get in space, it would just expand until the area was exposed to space in a sort of unspectacular rip or fraying at the edges until the pressure was released through a small opening somewhere. however if there was little pressure inside this area and there was a lot of force on the outside, it would crush that area depending how this area was constructed and how much pressure there is inside.
guess these federation types build very thick armour parts for the hull and a solid internal support structure. but force fields could easily explain away that internal external force thing, as the forcefields provide external pressure to equalize the hull.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That might be true, but the Federation is a sector-spanning entity comprised of hundreds of individual worlds (not all, clearly, populated by humanity). Federation Standard - the "English" supposedly used in the Star Trek Universe - may have hundreds of individual dialects. Every world is home to billions of people, and across those individual worlds, it's highly unlikely that every person will adhere to a single grammatical standard - even in the U.K. and the U.S. spellings, definitions and pronunciations can vary from region to region.
Sure, it may just be a production inconsistency, but I think you can shoehorn a reasonable explanation in for it.
it looks like someone just messed up on the graphical design and only had one attempt at it with no way back. just another minor issue with jjcrap films.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-maps/image/world-political-native-name.jpg
you are forgetting the universal communication device that works passively in the comm badge for races to understand each other from tng and beyond. enterprise had a crude version of this device called the universal translator in the ship so it was likely completely updated and such over the decades. since ToS mostly had humans to explore guess a portable translator wasnt really needed.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
This is generally true at one point in time, but things do change with transliterations over time. The capital city of China has gone from Peking to Beijing in the last century, and that's not even counting the Nationalists in Taiwan, who largely still use the variant Peiping. As a history major, I ran into a great many books that romanized the city as Peking, so it's entirely possible that one of these examples in Into Darkness is an older source in the library files that uses the older version, while another is more modern.
My character Tsin'xing
"frank"reich is a dead give away to the old german tribe called franks who settled in france and called themselves french after that business with the romans. didnt need to anglicize that one :P
osterriech i know is austria because in my sim racing days the a1 ring was in osttereich and i never liked to sim race on that track.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Looking at Futurama for scientific accuracy is about as silly as looking at Star Trek for scientific accuracy.
The scene is easily handwaved with preexisting phlebotinum called the structural integrity field.
This. English is weird, even by other languages' standards. It's Germanic at its base, but also incorporates a lot of concepts from Romance languages and gets loan words from all over the place.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
**** you ILM.
Why couldn't they support any other company than that! :mad::mad:
I hope STO get's better ...
But ILM gave us the Excelsior and the Akira!
And we can ignore R2, he was in Into Darkness. :rolleyes: