You can't blame the state of PVE in this game on PVP because PVP has received no attention whatsoever. Matter of act, as crazy as it sounds, the only thing Cryptic hates more than the Klingons *is* PVP. Where at least with the KDF, SOME miniscule work has been done over the years of this game. Nothing compared to Feds, but SOME work. The same cannot be said for PVP.
No new maps.
No new PVP modes.
No split queues between PUGs and Pre-Mades.
No nothing. Absolutely NO attention has been provided to PVP since this game released.
As for PVE in this game, it's sorry state is in Cryptic's hands. All their work has been pretty much for PVE, and we have what we have. The woeful state of balance in this game hasn't been due to PVP. It's due to Cryptic's game design of Damage > Anything Else. Cryptic also has been increasing the Power Creep. More buffs, more set bonuses, more set bonuses within a reputation set, more reputation, more reputation buffs both active and passive, more subsystem power, more hits, more crits, more crit severity, more defense for escorts, more everything.
The act of Cryptic adding all this power in itself wasn't wrong. What was wrong was that there was no sacrificing anything. When you look at any random player's ship during combat and see the bewildering array of buffs, that is what's wrong with balance in this game. That is whats' wrong with the retardedly simple nature of PVE in this game. We can blitz through TAC Cubes in less than 5 seconds now, way before my first activation of CRF has finished. Long ago, that was unimaginable.
Then we also have Cryptic nerfing worthy content to the point that you can sit back and do nothing, yet complete it successfully. Case in point? The massive nerfing of "Defense of New Romulus."
And all this rests on what Cryptic has done or neglected to do.
Also:
Star Trek Online History 101
When STO released, there was a very large PVP playerbase. The playerbase numbers were still heavily slanted towards the Feds, but the very large numbers of KDF was noticeably large. The queues were popping constantly. There were soooo many Feds looking for a fight, and not enough KDF to keep those queues popping for all the Feds that had a long line to fight in PVP. You literally could have levelled up solely from PVP'ing, from the moment you were eligible (5, IIRC? Maybe Lv10, but you were still eligible at Lieutenant / Warrior), all the way to the level cap of 40 at the time. Fed, KDF, it was possible.
Participation in PVP was very large, but due to a variety of factors, including neglect of anything PVP, that fruit was allowed to rot.
OP, I have both ships. Hell, I have the Fleet version of the Mogh, but I keep coming back to my lovely Bortasqu', even when the Mogh has 5 fore weapon slots and better turn rate. Why?
The Bortasqu' is a big, sexy powerhouse, and I really, really enjoy flying her.
The messages I get all over when they see my Bortasqu' in full Aegis, glowing red and looking sexy in orbit strokes my ego. That's not to say the Bortasqu' is weak, though! I have mine set up with Fleet Antiproton beams, the Sphere of Influence core and Omnidirectional AP beam, and a fairly tanky loadout and it can turn as well as most battlecruisers, dart all over the battlefield and deal fairly good amount of damage with Fire at Will, especially if I use the Weapon Efficiency cruiser command.
I really just fly her like a mobile fortress, spewing red beams of death and destruction as it slumbers across the battlefield, quickly repairing all damage done to it whilst keeping a high damage resistance. 2 Fleet Neutronium consoles, 1 Fleet RCS console do really well on the ship, and since the Borg mostly spam torpedoes (therefore most of their damage is kinetic-based), Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners gives you not only a turn rate and speed boost, but a fairly massive kinetic resistance boost. My Bortasqu' isn't your grandma's slumbering version of it. She's agile, can spew Antiprots left and right and lay down the damage, play it super defensively (especially if I switch to the Shield resistance cruiser command), and can move pretty quickly in short bursts
She's a very flexible and powerful ship, and the cool factor alone will make you love the ship. She just looks like a KDF powerhouse, the kind of ship you expect to spearhead strikes, with a flotilla of BoPs and Raptors keeping it in check. Play it as you want, since you get a fairly useful LtComm uni BOff slot: put a Sci BOff there and spam all the Gravity Wells you want, or slam as many shield heals are you want; slap a Tac BOff there and put Attack Pattern Beta and possibly Attack Pattern Delta, and take the heat and therefore lower the enemy's damage resistance to make it easier for your crew to finish the enemy off, or put Attack Pattern Omega and pair it with Aux2Dampeners for massive mobility boosts; or slap an Engi BOff, put maybe Eject Warp Plasma and RSP and be nigh unkillable.
I know you bought the Mogh, and it's a fantastic, fun ship, but I still keep going back to my Bortasqu'. Can't live without the big lass.
Capital ships fail in STO because small ships tend to do so much better, not always but a lot of the time.
It really makes no sense, a destroyer would get blown out of the water by a battleship. Not just due to size but because of it's range and defense would not allow the destroyer to really harm it.
I think they either need to add extra defense to the larger ships and/or make crew size matter. Could also maybe give beams a longer range.
There's all kinda of ideas they could try to make the bigger ships more worthwhile.
As for the op's question it's going to depend on what your wanting more then anything. The consoles are not really worth getting imo.
The Bortasqu' has more hull than even the best Mogh. Its shields are only slightly weaker. With the full console set its turn rate is 6.5 meaning it is only 2.5 less than the Mogh which is still noticeable to be sure but not that big of a deal. The Bortasqu's Auto Cannon is utterly devastating combined with 5 tactical consoles and the HoH'SuS is not only a master pest and decoy but also has its OWN Auto-Cannon AND Attack Pattern Beta. Sub-Space Snare is evil in PvP and can be handy in PvE if you teleport enemies into bad things like explosions or warp plasma etc...
The only thing even the Fleet Mogh really has up on the Bortasqu' is its turn rate and the +10 to engine power. You could argue the fleet version has a tiiiny bit more shields but in actual practice it will rarely make a notable difference. Meanwhile the Bortasqu's Auto Cannon, the HoH'SuS, one more Tactical Console, and the bonuses from the console set make it far superior at killing enemies. In PvE there is no contest and in PvP if you learn how to use the Bortasqu' as ambush predator it will outshine the Mogh every time.
Now what about the 5th forward weapon? Well it can often be more of a hindrance than a help. If you try to fly the Mogh as a Duel Heavy Cannon boat then you will find yourself not able to keep enemies in your arc most of the time. If you are flying a Beam Array setup then it does not make any difference where that weapon is. If you are running Dual Beam Banks and Turrets (which is often Best) then having another DBB would be nice but unless you take some notable measures it will suck your power levels down fast and you will miss that extra 5 power the Bortasqu' has. Also the Bortasqu' being a heavier beast it can stand and fight longer than the Mogh allowing it to keep things better in that forward arc due to not having to run off as fast. The console set bonuses, extra weapon power, and the additional tactical console ultimately tend to outweigh the addition of one more forward weapon and the Auto-Cannon and HoH'SuS eclipse it in terms of Spike.
If you are an Engineer and thus can fully mitigate the weapon power issue then I would say you are flying the wrong ship to begin with because you should be in something flimsy. These mighty cruisers need solid Tactical Captains with their fire power enhancements, tactical readiness, and multiple turn rate bonuses.
If we are not talking Fleet Mogh then the comparison is LAUGHABLE as the Bortasqu' MURDERS it. However, if you do not have the $50.00 or the dilithium to convert in order to get the full pack from the Bortasqu' then it may not be an option and I understand that. I would say in that case go for the Fleet Tor'kaht (AKA the Fleet Vor'Cha) instead.
DISCLAIMER: I only have the anniversary Bortasqu and the standard C-Store Mogh. Your mileage may vary, particularly with the three-pack for the Bortasqu.
That said, I would make it fairly simple: If you enjoy of slow, heavy, heavily-armored ships, or you want a lot of options and can tolerate commanding a space whale to get them, then the Bortasqu is your ship. This IMO pretty much sums up just what the Bortasqu can do, and from what I've seen it can be a pretty fierce ship if you're willing to put the time into learning how to really use it.
Otherwise, go with the Mogh. The Mogh has good firepower and decent enough turn rate to use it for the most part, although I'd stick with DBB instead of cannons. That said, I'd do that with the Bortasqu, as well.
Capital ships fail in STO because small ships tend to do so much better, not always but a lot of the time.
It really makes no sense, a destroyer would get blown out of the water by a battleship. Not just due to size but because of it's range and defense would not allow the destroyer to really harm it.
This doesn't really follow. If you put a WW2 battleship against a WW2 destroyer, then yes. If you take a modern day guided missile destroyer and put that against the WW2 battleship, then no. Technological improvement over weapon systems matters more than a simplistic 'bigger is better' notion.
What a bigger ship should always have over a little ship is things like more manpower for damage control. Of course, this game doesn't really conceptualise that in a particularly good or relevant manner.
.....I think that could define the difference between battle cruisers & smaller but similarly equipped ships. There must be a point to having 3600 crewmen vs 150. But atm, you can't tell the difference between a bort and a bop when it comes to crew contribution or loss.
.....There should be some measurable advantage to carrying a small army around with you.
Yer numbers were wrong. (FIxed it for you) It takes packing all three "Optional" universals to get the Bort's turn rate up to 6 (by using the 3p bonus), effectively turning a 9 console ship into a 6 console ship to get the same turn as an Oddy.
Whoops, yeah I already factored it in, my mistake.
However this is what you get with the full set bonuses:
When 2 or more consoles are equipped, the following powers are given:
Set 2: Enhanced Tactical Systems
Passive
+0.5 Flight Turn Rate
25% Recharge time reduction to the Bortasqu' Console Set
+12 Starship Projectile Weapon Damage
+12 Starship Targeting Systems
+12 Starship Energy Weapon Specialization
Set 3: Enhanced Hoh'Sus Bird-of-Prey
Passive
Affects Friends (5 max)
0 kilometer Team
This bonus gives your Hoh'Sus Bird-of-Prey access to a weaker version of your Disruptor: Autocannon. In addition, it gains the Attack Pattern: Beta I ability.
That means the Autocannon can fire every 2 minutes and 24 seconds and the Subspace Snare and HoH'SuS can be fired off every 4 minutes.
You could simply not use these but it would be, IMHO, ill advised. The HoH'SuS is a great pet in PvP due to its ability to pester and be used as a Decoy (Hint: You can launch it while cloaked and remain cloaked). In PvE it can deliver substantial damage these days and help with its AT:B. It also survives a lot better than it once did (by avoiding explosions and the like).
You also get the Autocannon which is so obviously a win that you would have to be totally daft not to use it. 12 pulses of damage that can get rather high. I have easily dealt over 90K with the Autocannon alone.
Subspace Snare is the most questionable of the three. It is MOSTLY useful in PvP where it can be really good if you time it well and understand what you are doing. Due to the computer being dumb it is usually less useful in PvE but on occasion it can be crucial... (like when something gets stuck and you can unstick it this way and finally be able to kill it.)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
That means the Autocannon can fire every 2 minutes and 24 seconds...
...You also get the Autocannon which is so obviously a win that you would have to be totally daft not to use it. 12 pulses of damage that can get rather high. I have easily dealt over 90K with the Autocannon alone.
.....The autocannon isn't all you would think it should be. The damage isn't that stellar. Two mins is still an eternity in combat. Even in an ESTF it's uses are extremely limited. And ESTF's are where you'll get the maximum damage out of it.
.....The standard CD for the auto cannon is 3mins. So you give up 3 console slots for a 45 second improvement in the CD on a weapon that doesn't do that much damage. Maybe when you get it to crit it's a big hitter but not in my experience. And I'm running a tactical bort with 5 disruptor consoles.
The HoH'SuS is a great pet in PvP due to its ability to pester and be used as a Decoy (Hint: You can launch it while cloaked and remain cloaked). In PvE it can deliver substantial damage these days and help with its AT:B. It also survives a lot better than it once did (by avoiding explosions and the like)...
... and the HoH'SuS can be fired off every 4 minutes.
.....In PVE the Hosus does little to no damage, almost always runs off and targets a gate by itself and is usually dead in under a minute. Under 30 seconds if it stupidly attacks a gate. In PVP one FAW or SCV and it's dead. And since those are constantly running in PVP, you can imagine it's lifespan there. So you get 1 minute or less of minimal damage and a 4 minute CD. You do the math.
Subspace Snare is the most questionable of the three. It is MOSTLY useful in PvP where it can be really good if you time it well and understand what you are doing...
... Due to the computer being dumb it is usually less useful in PvE but on occasion it can be crucial... (like when something gets stuck and you can unstick it this way and finally be able to kill it.)
.....Absolutely useless in PVP as everyone you encounter has innate or on-demand escape powers that nullify the snare altogether or eliminate the hold associated with it after it moves them. That combined with the 4 min CD guarantees that your enemies will never be without the ability to counter it.
.....Absolutely useless in PVE because you know where all of your targets will be at all times. Know where to put your floating cannon platform and you'll never have to chase your targets.
.....Stuck target? How often does that happen? Tab till you've selected the "stuck" target and kill it. Or ignore it and move on to your next major target. Eventually the stuck sphere will come to you.
.....There is the theory that using the snare and the autocannon together allows you to set up an alpha strike.It doesn't.
.....The autocannon takes a second or so to begin firing, and it does it's damage over a series of pulses. As noted above, almost every PVP enemy you encounter will have the ability to nullify the snare or the hold afterwards. So the auto cannon won't get a chance to fire, and if it does, there's a good possibility that one or more of the pulses will miss, or the target will be out of the firing arc before it's finished the firing cycle.
.....In PVE, Gravity well and tractor beams are far more useful because they can be used over and over. And you don't have to give up a console slot to use them. They are great for gathering sphere's so you can SCV them. Or locking them down so you can finish them off. They also do kinetic damage, even to fixed targets, something the snare lacks entirely.
Um, sounds great, doesn't work that way in practice.
The pet AI on the Bort's pet is one of the least intelligent (and least controllable) in the game-it's actually less useful than galaxy saucer sep.
Unless the Bort pilot's rigged a FAW/Beamboat setup,
Either way, he's not contributing to the battle.
In general, the experience of having a bort on the team, is fighting with a handicap on your side. in Arena, you're actually better off if he quits and leaves the team one man short. it's that bad.
.....As a Bort pilot, I agree... Even with a fleet beam build and all other powers aimed at healing abilities, you end up with a shorter lifespan than most of your team.And you're not doing the damage that others are doing because you're working so hard to stay alive.
.....Further, since you'll be using all of your healing abilities to stay alive, (most of the time) you won't be able to heal your teammates.
.....It seems that in PVP, the biggest ships are always the first targets of the entire enemy team.Especially in arena where you're only goal is to kill 15 enemies before they kill 15 of you. Of course they're going to focus fire on the biggest, slowest ship on the map.Do that 15 times and they've won. In C&H it's only slightly different, they're still going to focus on killing the bort first and getting him out of the fight so they can focus on harder targets.
.....The only way I could see running a Bort in PVP would be as a engineer. With miraculous healing and the other uber engineering powers you MIGHT be able to tank 3 to 5 ships attacking you at once. (for a while)
.....You could create a team strategy around the idea that the enemy will focus fire the bort and have everyone pumping heals into the engineering bort while your team focus fires on your enemies weakest link. But I don't know if an entire team could keep the bort alive under focus fire from 3 to 5 opponents.
So switching from the DHC's to the DBB's seems acceptable to everyone. What if I take that a step further and go to regular cannons instead, since they have a full 180' arc?
So switching from the DHC's to the DBB's seems acceptable to everyone. What if I take that a step further and go to regular cannons instead, since they have a full 180' arc?
.....I wouldn't use the DBB's as a set. Most people I see using them use one DBB with Beam overload. Usually in an all beam boat build with the DBB used for spike damage.
.....I'd do some math before I set up all cannons. If you can fire all eight cannons at once with a broadside in the same manner as a beam boat. Then all you have to do is compare the numbers from beams to cannons and the buffs like FAW vs CSV or BO vs CRF.
.....If you can't overlap the fore and aft cannons then you'd have to compare five cannons to eight beams, or whatever your intended beam load out is.
.....There are power level issues to consider, DBB's can use a lot more power than DHC's due to their firing cycle and especially with BO. So if you go beams, you may want to put more energy into boosting/buffing your weapon power.
.....If you want to simply max out the DPS potential, stick with the DHC's. Boring I know, but I don't know if you'll find any other set up that can give you that kind of damage output potential.
.....If you want a beam boat with that big right hook, go with a beam boat and put the DBB up front for the big punch.
Haha The OP is talking about my 2 favourite ships in STO, so I'm inclined to join in and share a thought or two.
The Bortasqu' has been my main ship ever since it was released and I never got out of her. I never thought I will and I'm still not certain I completely would. Still the Mogh fills the role of a true Klingon battlecruiser soo well, so I now divided my Klingons in Bortases and Moghs.
First of all, they're two very different ships. While the Mogh is what I come to expect a true Klingon battlecruiser should be like, something like a beefed up destroyer - the Bortasqu' is more of a battleship/command ship or a wrecking ball if you will. The gameplay you'd expereince is very different in each of these two.
The Bortasqu', as others have already mentioned, is a ship that really divided the KDF population here on the forum on the topic if it's any good or not. Furthermore, from what I've seen, people tend to either adore it or hate it with passion.
Personally, I think it's an amazing ship. You can go ahead and tear me apart for saying this, but I believe there are 2 reasons why people that hate the Bortas hate it:
1. They haven't got a clue how to make it work. Which is dissapointing, especially for the Klingon faction.
2. They don't like how it plays because they've come to expect something different from the KDF ship lineup. Which is totally cool, since the Bortasqu' really is a ship that is quite different from the general lineup, so people are right to expect something different from a KDF ship.
That said, the Bortasqu' can be made into a machine of utter destruction. The trick is, you have to invest a lot into good equipment and crew to really make it tick. Also, it has a difficult learining curve and weird type of play, so it can be quite the handfull to handle - especially if you're not passionate about the ship and have the patience to make it work. Cause it takes time, it really does. Especially if you haven't used some of the slower Federation cruisers before. But, if and when you make it work - it's very rewarding and tons of fun.
The Mogh on the other hand, like I said, is what a true Klingon cruiser should be like. Powerfull, deadly, handles really well for a ship of her size, a predator 5/3 weapons layout. It can dish out severe punishment while tanking very well. I was actually suprised how well the Mogh can tank.
In the Klingon faction, the Mogh feels more natural to use and I think it's very easy to learn how to use it and have fun with it compared to the Bortas. While I expect some people to have issues with learning how to handle the Bortasqu', I don't expect anyone that has at least some clue about STO to have any problems being sucessfull in a Mogh battlecruiser. It truly is a great ship in a Klingon manner.
Boils down to type of gameplay I guess. Each one is an amazing ship on her own terms. Personally, I chose my ships based on visual preferences first and foremost and then give my best to make them work. And regarding the design, both are awesome looking Klingon ships that I really enjoy looking at when I play, so it's not a real suprise I have and love both. Disclaimer: This opinion completely excludes PvP from the equation. I'll take PvP seriously when the developers start taking PvP seriously.
Comments
No new maps.
No new PVP modes.
No split queues between PUGs and Pre-Mades.
No nothing. Absolutely NO attention has been provided to PVP since this game released.
As for PVE in this game, it's sorry state is in Cryptic's hands. All their work has been pretty much for PVE, and we have what we have. The woeful state of balance in this game hasn't been due to PVP. It's due to Cryptic's game design of Damage > Anything Else. Cryptic also has been increasing the Power Creep. More buffs, more set bonuses, more set bonuses within a reputation set, more reputation, more reputation buffs both active and passive, more subsystem power, more hits, more crits, more crit severity, more defense for escorts, more everything.
The act of Cryptic adding all this power in itself wasn't wrong. What was wrong was that there was no sacrificing anything. When you look at any random player's ship during combat and see the bewildering array of buffs, that is what's wrong with balance in this game. That is whats' wrong with the retardedly simple nature of PVE in this game. We can blitz through TAC Cubes in less than 5 seconds now, way before my first activation of CRF has finished. Long ago, that was unimaginable.
Then we also have Cryptic nerfing worthy content to the point that you can sit back and do nothing, yet complete it successfully. Case in point? The massive nerfing of "Defense of New Romulus."
And all this rests on what Cryptic has done or neglected to do.
Also:
Star Trek Online History 101
When STO released, there was a very large PVP playerbase. The playerbase numbers were still heavily slanted towards the Feds, but the very large numbers of KDF was noticeably large. The queues were popping constantly. There were soooo many Feds looking for a fight, and not enough KDF to keep those queues popping for all the Feds that had a long line to fight in PVP. You literally could have levelled up solely from PVP'ing, from the moment you were eligible (5, IIRC? Maybe Lv10, but you were still eligible at Lieutenant / Warrior), all the way to the level cap of 40 at the time. Fed, KDF, it was possible.
Participation in PVP was very large, but due to a variety of factors, including neglect of anything PVP, that fruit was allowed to rot.
The Bortasqu' is a big, sexy powerhouse, and I really, really enjoy flying her.
The messages I get all over when they see my Bortasqu' in full Aegis, glowing red and looking sexy in orbit strokes my ego. That's not to say the Bortasqu' is weak, though! I have mine set up with Fleet Antiproton beams, the Sphere of Influence core and Omnidirectional AP beam, and a fairly tanky loadout and it can turn as well as most battlecruisers, dart all over the battlefield and deal fairly good amount of damage with Fire at Will, especially if I use the Weapon Efficiency cruiser command.
I really just fly her like a mobile fortress, spewing red beams of death and destruction as it slumbers across the battlefield, quickly repairing all damage done to it whilst keeping a high damage resistance. 2 Fleet Neutronium consoles, 1 Fleet RCS console do really well on the ship, and since the Borg mostly spam torpedoes (therefore most of their damage is kinetic-based), Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners gives you not only a turn rate and speed boost, but a fairly massive kinetic resistance boost. My Bortasqu' isn't your grandma's slumbering version of it. She's agile, can spew Antiprots left and right and lay down the damage, play it super defensively (especially if I switch to the Shield resistance cruiser command), and can move pretty quickly in short bursts
She's a very flexible and powerful ship, and the cool factor alone will make you love the ship. She just looks like a KDF powerhouse, the kind of ship you expect to spearhead strikes, with a flotilla of BoPs and Raptors keeping it in check. Play it as you want, since you get a fairly useful LtComm uni BOff slot: put a Sci BOff there and spam all the Gravity Wells you want, or slam as many shield heals are you want; slap a Tac BOff there and put Attack Pattern Beta and possibly Attack Pattern Delta, and take the heat and therefore lower the enemy's damage resistance to make it easier for your crew to finish the enemy off, or put Attack Pattern Omega and pair it with Aux2Dampeners for massive mobility boosts; or slap an Engi BOff, put maybe Eject Warp Plasma and RSP and be nigh unkillable.
I know you bought the Mogh, and it's a fantastic, fun ship, but I still keep going back to my Bortasqu'. Can't live without the big lass.
It really makes no sense, a destroyer would get blown out of the water by a battleship. Not just due to size but because of it's range and defense would not allow the destroyer to really harm it.
I think they either need to add extra defense to the larger ships and/or make crew size matter. Could also maybe give beams a longer range.
There's all kinda of ideas they could try to make the bigger ships more worthwhile.
As for the op's question it's going to depend on what your wanting more then anything. The consoles are not really worth getting imo.
That Auto Cannon is far more powerful than the DDDS which is mostly a waste of a console.
Look at this:
Tactical Bortasqu
Hull: 43,500
Shield Modifer: 1
Turn Rate: 6
Power Bonus: +15 Weapons
3,600 Crew
Consoles:
5 Tactical
4 Engineering
1 Science
Mogh
Hull: 37,500
Shield Modifyer: 1
Turn Rate: 9
Power Bonus: +10 Weapons, +10 Engines
2,000 Crew
Consoles:
4 Tactical
4 Engineering
1 Science
Fleet Mogh
Hull: 41,250
Shield Modifer: 1.1
Turn Rate: 9
Power Bonus: +10 Weapons, +10 Engines
2,000 Crew
4 Tactical
4 Engineering
2 Science
The Bortasqu' has more hull than even the best Mogh. Its shields are only slightly weaker. With the full console set its turn rate is 6.5 meaning it is only 2.5 less than the Mogh which is still noticeable to be sure but not that big of a deal. The Bortasqu's Auto Cannon is utterly devastating combined with 5 tactical consoles and the HoH'SuS is not only a master pest and decoy but also has its OWN Auto-Cannon AND Attack Pattern Beta. Sub-Space Snare is evil in PvP and can be handy in PvE if you teleport enemies into bad things like explosions or warp plasma etc...
The only thing even the Fleet Mogh really has up on the Bortasqu' is its turn rate and the +10 to engine power. You could argue the fleet version has a tiiiny bit more shields but in actual practice it will rarely make a notable difference. Meanwhile the Bortasqu's Auto Cannon, the HoH'SuS, one more Tactical Console, and the bonuses from the console set make it far superior at killing enemies. In PvE there is no contest and in PvP if you learn how to use the Bortasqu' as ambush predator it will outshine the Mogh every time.
Now what about the 5th forward weapon? Well it can often be more of a hindrance than a help. If you try to fly the Mogh as a Duel Heavy Cannon boat then you will find yourself not able to keep enemies in your arc most of the time. If you are flying a Beam Array setup then it does not make any difference where that weapon is. If you are running Dual Beam Banks and Turrets (which is often Best) then having another DBB would be nice but unless you take some notable measures it will suck your power levels down fast and you will miss that extra 5 power the Bortasqu' has. Also the Bortasqu' being a heavier beast it can stand and fight longer than the Mogh allowing it to keep things better in that forward arc due to not having to run off as fast. The console set bonuses, extra weapon power, and the additional tactical console ultimately tend to outweigh the addition of one more forward weapon and the Auto-Cannon and HoH'SuS eclipse it in terms of Spike.
If you are an Engineer and thus can fully mitigate the weapon power issue then I would say you are flying the wrong ship to begin with because you should be in something flimsy. These mighty cruisers need solid Tactical Captains with their fire power enhancements, tactical readiness, and multiple turn rate bonuses.
If we are not talking Fleet Mogh then the comparison is LAUGHABLE as the Bortasqu' MURDERS it. However, if you do not have the $50.00 or the dilithium to convert in order to get the full pack from the Bortasqu' then it may not be an option and I understand that. I would say in that case go for the Fleet Tor'kaht (AKA the Fleet Vor'Cha) instead.
That said, I would make it fairly simple: If you enjoy of slow, heavy, heavily-armored ships, or you want a lot of options and can tolerate commanding a space whale to get them, then the Bortasqu is your ship. This IMO pretty much sums up just what the Bortasqu can do, and from what I've seen it can be a pretty fierce ship if you're willing to put the time into learning how to really use it.
Otherwise, go with the Mogh. The Mogh has good firepower and decent enough turn rate to use it for the most part, although I'd stick with DBB instead of cannons. That said, I'd do that with the Bortasqu, as well.
What a bigger ship should always have over a little ship is things like more manpower for damage control. Of course, this game doesn't really conceptualise that in a particularly good or relevant manner.
.....I think that could define the difference between battle cruisers & smaller but similarly equipped ships. There must be a point to having 3600 crewmen vs 150. But atm, you can't tell the difference between a bort and a bop when it comes to crew contribution or loss.
.....There should be some measurable advantage to carrying a small army around with you.
Whoops, yeah I already factored it in, my mistake.
However this is what you get with the full set bonuses:
When 2 or more consoles are equipped, the following powers are given:
Set 2: Enhanced Tactical Systems
Passive
+0.5 Flight Turn Rate
25% Recharge time reduction to the Bortasqu' Console Set
+12 Starship Projectile Weapon Damage
+12 Starship Targeting Systems
+12 Starship Energy Weapon Specialization
Set 3: Enhanced Hoh'Sus Bird-of-Prey
Passive
Affects Friends (5 max)
0 kilometer Team
This bonus gives your Hoh'Sus Bird-of-Prey access to a weaker version of your Disruptor: Autocannon. In addition, it gains the Attack Pattern: Beta I ability.
That means the Autocannon can fire every 2 minutes and 24 seconds and the Subspace Snare and HoH'SuS can be fired off every 4 minutes.
You could simply not use these but it would be, IMHO, ill advised. The HoH'SuS is a great pet in PvP due to its ability to pester and be used as a Decoy (Hint: You can launch it while cloaked and remain cloaked). In PvE it can deliver substantial damage these days and help with its AT:B. It also survives a lot better than it once did (by avoiding explosions and the like).
You also get the Autocannon which is so obviously a win that you would have to be totally daft not to use it. 12 pulses of damage that can get rather high. I have easily dealt over 90K with the Autocannon alone.
Subspace Snare is the most questionable of the three. It is MOSTLY useful in PvP where it can be really good if you time it well and understand what you are doing. Due to the computer being dumb it is usually less useful in PvE but on occasion it can be crucial... (like when something gets stuck and you can unstick it this way and finally be able to kill it.)
The powerslide of doom is fun.
Trying to buy that MAM Specialist DOFF on the KDF side is not though.
As has been brought out, the bort power slides, which when done skillfully and purposefully is effective. However for some this is undesirable.
I suppose a question to ask is how do you want your ship to handle?
.....The autocannon isn't all you would think it should be. The damage isn't that stellar. Two mins is still an eternity in combat. Even in an ESTF it's uses are extremely limited. And ESTF's are where you'll get the maximum damage out of it.
.....The standard CD for the auto cannon is 3mins. So you give up 3 console slots for a 45 second improvement in the CD on a weapon that doesn't do that much damage. Maybe when you get it to crit it's a big hitter but not in my experience. And I'm running a tactical bort with 5 disruptor consoles.
.....In PVE the Hosus does little to no damage, almost always runs off and targets a gate by itself and is usually dead in under a minute. Under 30 seconds if it stupidly attacks a gate. In PVP one FAW or SCV and it's dead. And since those are constantly running in PVP, you can imagine it's lifespan there. So you get 1 minute or less of minimal damage and a 4 minute CD. You do the math.
.....Absolutely useless in PVP as everyone you encounter has innate or on-demand escape powers that nullify the snare altogether or eliminate the hold associated with it after it moves them. That combined with the 4 min CD guarantees that your enemies will never be without the ability to counter it.
.....Absolutely useless in PVE because you know where all of your targets will be at all times. Know where to put your floating cannon platform and you'll never have to chase your targets.
.....Stuck target? How often does that happen? Tab till you've selected the "stuck" target and kill it. Or ignore it and move on to your next major target. Eventually the stuck sphere will come to you.
.....There is the theory that using the snare and the autocannon together allows you to set up an alpha strike. It doesn't.
.....The autocannon takes a second or so to begin firing, and it does it's damage over a series of pulses. As noted above, almost every PVP enemy you encounter will have the ability to nullify the snare or the hold afterwards. So the auto cannon won't get a chance to fire, and if it does, there's a good possibility that one or more of the pulses will miss, or the target will be out of the firing arc before it's finished the firing cycle.
.....In PVE, Gravity well and tractor beams are far more useful because they can be used over and over. And you don't have to give up a console slot to use them. They are great for gathering sphere's so you can SCV them. Or locking them down so you can finish them off. They also do kinetic damage, even to fixed targets, something the snare lacks entirely.
.....As a Bort pilot, I agree... Even with a fleet beam build and all other powers aimed at healing abilities, you end up with a shorter lifespan than most of your team. And you're not doing the damage that others are doing because you're working so hard to stay alive.
.....Further, since you'll be using all of your healing abilities to stay alive, (most of the time) you won't be able to heal your teammates.
.....It seems that in PVP, the biggest ships are always the first targets of the entire enemy team. Especially in arena where you're only goal is to kill 15 enemies before they kill 15 of you. Of course they're going to focus fire on the biggest, slowest ship on the map. Do that 15 times and they've won. In C&H it's only slightly different, they're still going to focus on killing the bort first and getting him out of the fight so they can focus on harder targets.
.....The only way I could see running a Bort in PVP would be as a engineer. With miraculous healing and the other uber engineering powers you MIGHT be able to tank 3 to 5 ships attacking you at once. (for a while)
.....You could create a team strategy around the idea that the enemy will focus fire the bort and have everyone pumping heals into the engineering bort while your team focus fires on your enemies weakest link. But I don't know if an entire team could keep the bort alive under focus fire from 3 to 5 opponents.
.....I wouldn't use the DBB's as a set. Most people I see using them use one DBB with Beam overload. Usually in an all beam boat build with the DBB used for spike damage.
.....I'd do some math before I set up all cannons. If you can fire all eight cannons at once with a broadside in the same manner as a beam boat. Then all you have to do is compare the numbers from beams to cannons and the buffs like FAW vs CSV or BO vs CRF.
.....If you can't overlap the fore and aft cannons then you'd have to compare five cannons to eight beams, or whatever your intended beam load out is.
.....There are power level issues to consider, DBB's can use a lot more power than DHC's due to their firing cycle and especially with BO. So if you go beams, you may want to put more energy into boosting/buffing your weapon power.
.....If you want to simply max out the DPS potential, stick with the DHC's. Boring I know, but I don't know if you'll find any other set up that can give you that kind of damage output potential.
.....If you want a beam boat with that big right hook, go with a beam boat and put the DBB up front for the big punch.
The Bortasqu' has been my main ship ever since it was released and I never got out of her. I never thought I will and I'm still not certain I completely would. Still the Mogh fills the role of a true Klingon battlecruiser soo well, so I now divided my Klingons in Bortases and Moghs.
First of all, they're two very different ships. While the Mogh is what I come to expect a true Klingon battlecruiser should be like, something like a beefed up destroyer - the Bortasqu' is more of a battleship/command ship or a wrecking ball if you will. The gameplay you'd expereince is very different in each of these two.
The Bortasqu', as others have already mentioned, is a ship that really divided the KDF population here on the forum on the topic if it's any good or not. Furthermore, from what I've seen, people tend to either adore it or hate it with passion.
Personally, I think it's an amazing ship. You can go ahead and tear me apart for saying this, but I believe there are 2 reasons why people that hate the Bortas hate it:
1. They haven't got a clue how to make it work. Which is dissapointing, especially for the Klingon faction.
2. They don't like how it plays because they've come to expect something different from the KDF ship lineup. Which is totally cool, since the Bortasqu' really is a ship that is quite different from the general lineup, so people are right to expect something different from a KDF ship.
That said, the Bortasqu' can be made into a machine of utter destruction. The trick is, you have to invest a lot into good equipment and crew to really make it tick. Also, it has a difficult learining curve and weird type of play, so it can be quite the handfull to handle - especially if you're not passionate about the ship and have the patience to make it work. Cause it takes time, it really does. Especially if you haven't used some of the slower Federation cruisers before. But, if and when you make it work - it's very rewarding and tons of fun.
The Mogh on the other hand, like I said, is what a true Klingon cruiser should be like. Powerfull, deadly, handles really well for a ship of her size, a predator 5/3 weapons layout. It can dish out severe punishment while tanking very well. I was actually suprised how well the Mogh can tank.
In the Klingon faction, the Mogh feels more natural to use and I think it's very easy to learn how to use it and have fun with it compared to the Bortas. While I expect some people to have issues with learning how to handle the Bortasqu', I don't expect anyone that has at least some clue about STO to have any problems being sucessfull in a Mogh battlecruiser. It truly is a great ship in a Klingon manner.
Boils down to type of gameplay I guess. Each one is an amazing ship on her own terms. Personally, I chose my ships based on visual preferences first and foremost and then give my best to make them work. And regarding the design, both are awesome looking Klingon ships that I really enjoy looking at when I play, so it's not a real suprise I have and love both.
Disclaimer: This opinion completely excludes PvP from the equation. I'll take PvP seriously when the developers start taking PvP seriously.