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Bortasqu or Mogh?
kirscht
Member Posts: 95 Arc User
Any preference? and is the ddds really worth it? or the auto cannon?
Post edited by kirscht on
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They're two vastly different ships, my friend.
The Mogh is a traditional Klingon battlecruiser, and more specifically a reskin of the Fed Avenger with the addition of an integrated cloak (the Avenger needs the console from the Defiant or Galaxy-X). It's a fast, cannon-capable cruiser but it's not as tough as the Bort.
The Bort is basically a Fed-style engineering cruiser, slow and tough. It can mount dual cannons but can't turn well enough to use them competently so you're better off building for defense and a strong beam broadside. It's a Mighty Glacier.
The autocannon is probably too situational to be useful. It has a long CD and it's a fixed forward-facing weapon, something that, as previously mentioned, the Bort is too slow to use effectively. The DDDS is basically the Klingon answer to the Avenger's VATA. From experience the quantum VATA (what it does when Weapons Efficiency mode is turned on) can put up some good numbers when both main projectiles hit, and it's quite good for PVE since they'll retarget automatically (I've had them act like mines in Elachi Alert). Depending on your build it still might not be worth the slot though.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The Bort is a big ol' bus of a ship which would be in serious trouble if it had to out maneuver a Death Star. The Boff layout is Fed, not Klink. The Uni Consoles are just as gimmicky as DDDS. The Bort is the only thing I have ever purchased for this game where I did not feel I got value for my money. Makes a nice storage rack in drydock though.
The Negh'var has the same Boff layout as the Galaxy-R. The Vor'cha Retro the same as the Sovereign. When the Bortasqu' was released, those were the only T5 battlecruisers in the game (well, and the Anniversary Bortas...). Since then, nine more T5 KDF battlecruisers have been released (five of those are Fleet upgrades of another T5 Battlecruiser)... and the only ones without their Boff layout directly mirrored by a Fed cruiser are the Fleet Negh'var, and the Tor'kaht... but only if you count the Universals separately, since the F-Negh'var can only copy existing cruiser layouts and the Odyssey can copy the Tor'kaht's layout.
That's not to say the Bortasqu' doesn't play more like a Fed cruiser than a KDF one... it generally does, thanks to its abysmal turn rate, but in a mission where a big battlecruiser with heavy armor and shielding can afford to sit and shoot (like STFs), the Bortasqu' can also play at being a siege engine.
They are definitely different. I like both for very different reasons.
Everyone so far seems to be of the opinion the Bort isn't a true Klingon cruiser. I disagree, I think it's the perfect example of what a Klingon Designer would come up with. Something huge and tough, able to be equipped with whatever the captain desires, be it cannons or beams. Enough console space to allow it to turn well enough to bring its heavy cannons to bear or armor up to be as close to invulnerable as a ship can become. I personally play a Tactical Bort because I LOVE the Super Cannon, the Pew Pew Pew factor is Epic! I'm not a PVP player so can't speak for that, but I've never had issues bring my cannons to bear on my targets with my Tac Bort. It is a beast though so requires getting used to if you prefer smaller, not as tough fast flying ships. The larger ships might be able to achieve the same speeds as smaller, but the view shifts with the scale so feels different, and of course inertia is fun!
The Mogh is definitely nice. Those 5 forward firing cannons definitely makes it feel like a cruiser/escort hybrid should. With the drive of the player base to achieve the highest DPS available, the Mogh definitely fits well with the power creep.
My main Klingon is a big fat Gorn Pirate so I prefer the Bort for its serious presence. Carriers look like big fat egg laying hens whereas the Bort looks beastly. The shape of the Mogh even suggests it's hybrid state between Raptor/BOP, and Cruiser with the big hooked wings and more bird like front. My biggest problem with the Mogh is it reminds me of a duck.
The Mogh is the ideal KDF DHC battlecruiser at the moment. Turns and behaves as you would expect of a klngon design, kind of ironic considering where the stats came from.
The Bortasqu' is a better aux2bat BFAW cruiser, at least the tactical version is. It has a unique bridge too, and it is in my opinion the best bridge in the game. The shields are weak considering that it is a fleet level cruiser, but they are strong enough if you are running an aux2bat build. I typically use the tac version in both ESTF and the dyson sphere and have no trouble tanking elite cubes/gate or engaging a tower Voth group alone.
As for the consoles... no, neither are worth it. There are much better consoles out there and the set bonus from the Bort is kind of weak.
What's your current play style?
.....If you like mobile ships that have moderate health & are primarily damage focused you'll want the Mogh.
.....If you're used to large, slow platforms or beam boats that can tank damage at the same time they're handing it out, the Bort is probably going to be more familiar to you.
.....Are you trying to change your playstyle? Tired of fragile BOP's and middle of the road raptors? You probably want the Mogh.
.....The Bort is a BIG change from the smaller more mobile ships, & many many players that came before you have found it to be a disappointing ship.
Where do you intend to fly it?
.....If you're doing ESTF's it's all about your play style, because either ship can do ESTF's. The targets are either stagnant or spawn in predictable locations and patterns.
.....So you can fly the Bort with DHC's & the auto-cannon without issue. Although it may take some getting used to and you may have to make a few runs to figure out the most efficient pattern to follow so that you're in position and on target as often and as long as possible.
.....The bort easily has enough health to tank the cubes while sitting still, although I find I still have to watch my health around gates and try not to take on a cube while I'm also in range of a gate. Keeping in mind that I'm usually sitting still and my build is damage oriented with very few healing abilities, so your build may be less fragile.
.....The Mogh can easily handle ESTF's as well. It has the dmg output of a escort with more hull than an escort. And escorts fare well in ESTF's, so survivability is obviously not a problem and dmg output is probably as good as you can get.
Breach
.....If you're flying it in the Breach, mobility is a concern. My bort is a slug in the corridors and a PITA to get out before the Voth ship blows up. If the core happens to zap me to the wrong side of the core chamber just before the core pops, I'm dead and there's really nothing I can do about it. If that concerns you, get the Mogh, or use another ship for the Breach.
PVE
.....The Bort is NOT for PVP. Get the Mogh, but don't expect too much from it.
.....If the Bort's were any good in PVP people would be flying them. They aren't. I rarely see them in PVE much less PVP.
.....I'll be the first to tell you that I'm no good at PVP, and I've given up on trying to build a KDF ship of any class for it. But I do know that mobility and spike damage are both primary concerns. I don't know if the Mogh will be of any use in PVP. It seems to be a general consensus that the KDF is gimped in PVP. From what I hear, if you want to PVP you should be flying Fed or Rom.
The consoles.
.....I have not used the DDD console but I can tell you that the Bort consoles are useless in anything other than ESTF's.
.....For ESTF's the auto cannon works fine. The targets are mostly stationary. And as noted above, you'll learn where to position yourself so that you can to stay on target as mush as possible. The downside is the horrific cool-down. You won't get to use it that often.
.....Do NOT buy the Bort set, the console set bonus is TRIBBLE. The other two consoles are worse than useless. The BOP you send out does little to no damage and dies quickly. The snare is less useful than a level one tractor beam.
My exp w/the bort set.
.....I ground dilith for a long time to get the Bort set. Using them for the first time was a disappointing experience to put it mildly. If I'd paid real money for them, I can imagine that my response would have been newsworthy. It was so bad at first that I gave them up after several iterations and went back to my heavy BOP and raptor. I knew the bort's would be slow moving but I figured they'd have some innate tanking ability. They don't. They're squishy without the right buffs.
.....I revisited them after I joined a fleet on the KDF side with little change, so I came here to the forums for help. That made a difference. Now that I've redone them a few times using what I learned here, they tank ESTF's well and I can finally be satisfied with flying them.
.....I currently fly the tactical Bort with all DHC's in ESTF's and eventually intend to incorporate the autocannon. (I'm not using disruptor tac consoles atm)
.....I also fly the war bort as a beam boat in Breach Elite and ESTF's. It has a few more healing powers than the Tac version.
.....I have the command bort set up to maximize dmg output as a beam boat (no healing powers) but that's just for the "defending the empire" missions.
As for realworld dynamics (which is sort of a strange concept to consider given that we're dealing with spaceships which rely on science that hasn't been invented yet) its not meant engage escorts unsupported or to square off with anything smaller than an enemy dreadnought. It's meant to lead fleets against Borg tactical cubes and be the last ship standing, which is a job it would do very well.
As far as surface area v. volume, to my eye the Bort looks more compact and robust than the Negh'var or Tor'Kaht, and on par with the original Vor'Cha. Although it does suffer from the battleship escalation conundrum (More armor requires more power requires larger hull requires more armor...) and would doubtless accelerate, decelerate and turn like a brick in mud. But hey, that's what space magic (inertial dampeners) are for.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
You are either going to adore the ship or consider it the worst purchase you'll ever make in STO.
Personally, I'd say the Mogh. It moves well, heavy forward firepower, and the BOFF station layout is among the best in the game (alongside its "Avenger" twin).
The Bortasqu' is controversial. It CAN dish out alot of damage. It CAN be built to soak alot. But the movement of the ship is terrible and you have to put alot of effort, more than usual, to make this even move like molasses in winter. The 2 and 3 piece Console bonuses are lackluster. The turn rate bonus is... wait a minute now... +0.5
Yes, I said "0.5" as in improving your base turn rate by only 0.5.
Autocannon - Fabulous console but has a very long cooldown. Since it's a forward arc weapon on a fantastically slow turning ship even with Cruiser Commands and such, on a very long cooldown, it's a horrible waste.
The Bortasqu' isn't something I can recommend. Only if you've really done your homework on it and love flying immovable objects. And for Kahless' sake, it's even more reason of a warning before you even do the Bortasqu' 3-pack.
I bought the 3 pack long ago, and I consider it my worst purchase I have ever made in this game, then and now.
You've been warned.
That said, I have an Avenger, and she is "better". A 5th forward weapon slot is stronger then a 5th tac console when using DHC. The V.A.T.A. is "better" then the Auto-Cannon. She moves well. She has plenty of hull and shields for me. The boff layout is excellent. So long as I don't want to be flying with sci control, she can do anything I want her to with style. I don't have a Mogh, but the Avenger is really, really nice.
So no, nothing at all wrong with a Bortasqu'. Simply the best KDF cruiser if you want to use beams. Highly versitile, style in spades, but with a high learning curve and small margins for error. It was also released nearly 2 years ago in a game with rampant power creep. The Avenmogh, being newer, is most certainly "better", but only in a more narrow focus (cannon DPS, no heavy sci, less tanky) I have no experience with the DDDS, but the V.A.T.A. can be a little "clunky" as it is destructable. The Autocannon can be hard to line up, but if they are in front of you, you are going to hit them.
Bottom line, you are most likely going to get more use and enjoyment out of a Mogh rather then a 2 year old ship that requires a specialized skill set and tons of finesse to get right. If you want to fly a Bortasqu' don't let the negative press sway you, tho. A Bortasqu' in the hands of a skilled captain is one of the most destructive things in PvE.
Of course, 9/10 captains wouldn't be able to fly one around space dock...
Edit: I just saw a Tac/Gal-X pull 14k DPS in ISE. The Bortasqu' is superior to a Gal-X in every way. Logic dictates that a Bortasqu' in the hands of that pilot would be an amazing thing to watch... Sadly I let my KDF dangle after reps and starbases made keeping up on her a PITA...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Your point is absolutely correct!
I got both, the Bortasque and the Mogh and both ships have their pros and cons. And the best thing about it is, that I really like both and I can't tell which is more fun to fly. So, if you know how to handle big ships the Bortasque is a valid choice. And there are some ways to get the turn rate up so that it doesn't feel like a whale
Also, science and sci-fi dont mix. Especially a sci-fi with lulz spacemagic technology that runs on technobabble and has fields that make intertia dissapear.
If you're going to get one, just get the tactical version (I agree with the general sentiment that the 3-pack isn't worth the money) and forget about the AC console. It's cool when it fires but not nearly cool enough to be hogging a precious slot. Remember that the Tac Bort effectively only has 5 console slots for you to play with, real estate is very limited.
Also... tho I may be burned as a heretic for saying it aloud, there is no rule saying you *Can't* put a universal console in a tactical slot if you want to experiment with what it would feel like with an extra eng console or such for tanking... yeah... I wouldn't either but i can be done.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
You fly what you like, I'll fly what I like.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Why? It's cheaper on the whole to just buy the C-store version, then buy the fleet version so you don't have to deal with paying 4 FSMs for it.
Plus, not everyone has access (especially KDF-side) to a tier 4 shipyard.
Fleet Modules are 500 zen, 4 modules are 2000 zen, which is less than the c-store ship package price of 2500 zen. Its only cheaper to buy the c-store package and fleet upgrades if you are want to use the fleet ship with 2 chars, then it is 2500+500+500=3500 which is less than the 4000 for 8 modules.
That's true. NOP Public Service might help. The fleet I am in also sells shipyard memberships to cover our provision costs. Ask around in /zone in Qo'Nos somebody will help.