I would like to clear up a couple mis conceptions.
1) A2B cruiser can out DPS escorts.
Comparing cannon(spike) damage to beam(pressure) damage is comparing apples to oranges.
Fit some beams onto that escort and it will out DPS almost any A2B/DEM/FAW cruiser out there except the FABC, FACR, and the FAHCR.
2) you need A2B to do any good DPS with FABC, FACR, and FAHCR.
This is true with the Fleet Excel because it only has room for 1 tactical officer. However the FABC and the FACR can fit 3 tactical officers. running 3 SRO tactical BOffs with Nukarua T4 damage buff and no A2B means that the FABC and the FACR can out DPS similarly fit ships with A2B.
With that build (that I personally never use either) cruisers can do damage on par with escorts, arguably it's the one trick up its sleeve to make cruisers worthwhile.
Before this trick came along it was always the 'escorts online' argument. Tell me, have you heard this recently? Is it bad that we don't hear such things these days?
What we should be discussing is when science captains get such a trick up its sleeve, then for the first time since I've been playing all careers could be considered equal in terms of damage output.
My big beef with A2B/Tech builds is the fact that it overshadows a trick we DO already have up our sleeve.
Photonic officer is a pretty TRIBBLE ability, long cooldown that reduces other cooldowns when fired, even with three photonic doffs halving its cooldown it's still pretty meh. Then we have A2B which is a great skill alone as long as you don't need that aux and adding on a doff lets it do a better job than PO does.
In short the problem isn't the concept as much as we have a doff doing a better job than a boff which is backwards.
It also sucks that most of the best cruiser builds are A2B/tech builds with DEM/Marion. I'd very much like there to be more than one way to build any ship.
Its useful for stuff besides DPS. You can make a pretty solid healer using a single A2B, clipping cooldowns by 30% and popping an aux battery if an aux-based heal is critically needed during the downtime window (which still leaves you with -Team heals and Extend Shields). There have also been some surprisingly effective science builds using single-A2B as well, popping off the skills at high aux, then diverting back to the combat systems and getting reduced CDs while the sci stuff recharges. The problem is that the game is mostly DPS Online, so too many people only look at a skill for its DPS abilities.
Personally I think drain builds only benefit from cooldowns if going A2B, because a high drain build has no need of the max power aspect of it.
The idea f a nerf to A2B, is to me, a slap to the face of every player that took the time to build up the resources needed, to make A2B at optimum. While as an engy, I can only get it to the 8k to 12k range (depending on stacked buffs,) but that is more than fine to me. Tac are supposed to pull better dps. A Kumari player in moi fleet has a 20+k build, that I will leave em to such, more than well enough.
All of it, is not like an A2B build is an outright auto pulled together build. Getting a Marion, is EXPENSIVE... the chosen parts of the build, takes time in more STFs than one should count. Those that have a complete build, such as I, have done so, as an EARNED measure. To take that all away, is as I said above, an insult to those chosen players, that took their time to set everything up. To nerf it as a result, WILL get a larger outcry than one of the player base thinks, as far as a reaction, to a nerf to A2B. Especially when parts of the build, rely on the option, of a Lobi item or two, to achieve wanted results.
To consider all this, before complaining about A2B builds, as it IS expensive and time consuming, to pull off. I myself seriously consider my A2B FAC, a true labor of love. I won't take kindly to a nerf to it now.
The idea f a nerf to A2B, is to me, a slap to the face of every player that took the time to build up the resources needed, to make A2B at optimum. While as an engy, I can only get it to the 8k to 12k range (depending on stacked buffs,) but that is more than fine to me. Tac are supposed to pull better dps. A Kumari player in moi fleet has a 20+k build, that I will leave em to such, more than well enough.
All of it, is not like an A2B build is an outright auto pulled together build. Getting a Marion, is EXPENSIVE... the chosen parts of the build, takes time in more STFs than one should count. Those that have a complete build, such as I, have done so, as an EARNED measure. To take that all away, is as I said above, an insult to those chosen players, that took their time to set everything up. To nerf it as a result, WILL get a larger outcry than one of the player base thinks, as far as a reaction, to a nerf to A2B. Especially when parts of the build, rely on the option, of a Lobi item or two, to achieve wanted results.
To consider all this, before complaining about A2B builds, as it IS expensive and time consuming, to pull off. I myself seriously consider my A2B FAC, a true labor of love. I won't take kindly to a nerf to it now.
Well, no offense, things that other players have used, and really liked, and may have taken them plenty of resources to get, have been nerfed.
Now, from what I've seen, personally, does this whole A2B thing NEED a nerf? My best answer, I don't know. But from the sounds of it, there ARE some parts of it that should be toned down a bit.
But, I would be more for other stuff, like make things work as they should, instead of being bugged, so people can actually get the benefit they're supposed to.
Also, I'd like to see, instead of just cannon turrets, I feel they need dual cannon turrets, and dual beam turrets. (Don't really need single beam turrets, as broadsiding is already pretty well set with them, and turrets would get lower damage anyway, than that single beam array). But this way, when you have beam abilities, your turrets could benefit from then. Instead of basically either having to lose out on enhancing your DBBs, but losing out on your turrets, or going all cannons.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Between Cruiser Commands, Omega Weapon Amplifier, Plasmonic Leech...etc, etc, etc...people still use Marion outside of potential BO builds? Much less an Eng with EPS Manifold Efficiency available? Working in a WCE(Power) if not running a WCE(Cleanse)? With the available Cores? Etc, etc, etc...
Tech DOFFs are free. AtB is no more expensive than any other build - and - because of running the 3x Tech, probably cheaper than builds looking at AP DOFFs/etc/etc/etc...
Yes I think A2B build should exist but I don't believe they should be anywhere near as powerful as they are, I mean, no aux isn't that great of a drawback and from what I've read it can be countered.
My position on it isn't that it should be nerfed but it should be adjusted, if tech doffs had an aux offline mode (akin to the cloak's shields offline) attached to them (rather than draining to 5) then power transfer would come into the equation meaning that you wouldn't be able to straight chain it, if we also add in that tech doffs don't affect the cooldown of the A2B copy that activates it that would make it a less common thing, the cooldown reduction would be powerful but not overpowering to other concepts.
Another option is to make the cooldown reduction scale with aux power though I fear that would nullify the effect :P
Yes I think A2B build should exist but I don't believe they should be anywhere near as powerful as they are, I mean, no aux isn't that great of a drawback and from what I've read it can be countered.
My position on it isn't that it should be nerfed but it should be adjusted, if tech doffs had an aux offline mode (akin to the cloak's shields offline) attached to them (rather than draining to 5) then power transfer would come into the equation meaning that you wouldn't be able to straight chain it, if we also add in that tech doffs don't affect the cooldown of the A2B copy that activates it that would make it a less common thing, the cooldown reduction would be powerful but not overpowering to other concepts.
Another option is to make the cooldown reduction scale with aux power though I fear that would nullify the effect :P
If AtB capped Aux at 5, one couldn't easily get around it. If both copies of AtB actually dropped it to 5, instead of just the first...even though the first doesn't really take it to 5...but it's the thought that counts, right? - then even then it might be more balanced.
If it did what it was supposed to do in the first place, then we might be in a place to discuss it better, eh? As is...yeah, it's out of whack...
Despite whatever trolling may have sparked this topic... I believe a direct hit to A2B would be somewhat shortsighted.
Rather why not expand the usage of auxiliary power and make it a bit more useful. Perhaps have auxiliary increases weapon proc effect or augment torpedo damage or speed. As it stands the lack of aux isn't that much of negative. Shouldn't build balance hinge upon gaining something by losing out in some other way?
So I'd said I'd been meaning to upload a vid showing what I experience with AtB, and why I felt that it was out of whack - not balanced - etc, etc, etc. I was bored enough to do two videos.
Now don't go expecting anything exciting, brilliant, or even barely passable. They're the first two videos I've done and uploaded to YouTube - so they're TRIBBLE. However, imho, they suffice to show what I'm talking about as far as Aux drain not really being an issue with this particular build as some folks tend to make it out to be.
It hits 0 Aux three times. The first time is for 2-3s if that. The second time it blips from 0 to 10 in the matter of a second. The third time is at the end of the video when there's nothing left to shoot at and no abilities are being used...
Throughout the video one can see where "sometimes" it will 5 Aux on the first application of AtB, while on the second application it almost never does. One can easily compare when AtB is up and where Aux sits at that point...
This one had a little stutter to it - a couple of rubberbands - and about three seconds after I stopped recording I got hit by SDRs...meh, I hate my internet.
It hits 0 Aux once...kind of. Blipped 0, then 10, and dropped to 5 in the matter of a second or two.
And again, one can easily look at when AtB is up and what level Aux Power is at during those times...
Yes, both videos are clickgasms, but lol - I think it provides an additional benefit because of that. One could almost make a drinking game out of it. Out of what? Notice how many times SOM registers the mouse click (blue dot) but STO doesn't register the click. How many times did I click DPA and then the mines only to have the mines drop without DPA? How many times did I have to circle back a few times on something because it was getting blue dotted to Hell with clicks, but nothing was happening? Fun stuff...but it's a build that doesn't really require anything more than flying around going wheee and clicking things.
So one might be able to see why I've said in so many of these threads...well...it just ain't right.
My favorite way to bypass the [-]0[/-] low aux is to hit EPS transfer after hitting A2B. BOOM! normal aux level! Not a high level like you'd normally get, but normal-ish.
I propose that in exchange for a adjustment to tech doffs a change be made to the torpedo damage and maybe a damage boost for beam arrays with a adjustment to weapons power overcapping in it's relationship to beam arrays.
I'd like to see all torpedos do a percentage of damage straight to hull. With this compromise, cruisers can have more DPS while not getting cool downs to all BO powers.
Comments
1) A2B cruiser can out DPS escorts.
Comparing cannon(spike) damage to beam(pressure) damage is comparing apples to oranges.
Fit some beams onto that escort and it will out DPS almost any A2B/DEM/FAW cruiser out there except the FABC, FACR, and the FAHCR.
2) you need A2B to do any good DPS with FABC, FACR, and FAHCR.
This is true with the Fleet Excel because it only has room for 1 tactical officer. However the FABC and the FACR can fit 3 tactical officers. running 3 SRO tactical BOffs with Nukarua T4 damage buff and no A2B means that the FABC and the FACR can out DPS similarly fit ships with A2B.
source: my FABC hits 33k DPS without A2B
My big beef with A2B/Tech builds is the fact that it overshadows a trick we DO already have up our sleeve.
Photonic officer is a pretty TRIBBLE ability, long cooldown that reduces other cooldowns when fired, even with three photonic doffs halving its cooldown it's still pretty meh. Then we have A2B which is a great skill alone as long as you don't need that aux and adding on a doff lets it do a better job than PO does.
In short the problem isn't the concept as much as we have a doff doing a better job than a boff which is backwards.
It also sucks that most of the best cruiser builds are A2B/tech builds with DEM/Marion. I'd very much like there to be more than one way to build any ship.
Personally I think drain builds only benefit from cooldowns if going A2B, because a high drain build has no need of the max power aspect of it.
All of it, is not like an A2B build is an outright auto pulled together build. Getting a Marion, is EXPENSIVE... the chosen parts of the build, takes time in more STFs than one should count. Those that have a complete build, such as I, have done so, as an EARNED measure. To take that all away, is as I said above, an insult to those chosen players, that took their time to set everything up. To nerf it as a result, WILL get a larger outcry than one of the player base thinks, as far as a reaction, to a nerf to A2B. Especially when parts of the build, rely on the option, of a Lobi item or two, to achieve wanted results.
To consider all this, before complaining about A2B builds, as it IS expensive and time consuming, to pull off. I myself seriously consider my A2B FAC, a true labor of love. I won't take kindly to a nerf to it now.
Now, from what I've seen, personally, does this whole A2B thing NEED a nerf? My best answer, I don't know. But from the sounds of it, there ARE some parts of it that should be toned down a bit.
But, I would be more for other stuff, like make things work as they should, instead of being bugged, so people can actually get the benefit they're supposed to.
Also, I'd like to see, instead of just cannon turrets, I feel they need dual cannon turrets, and dual beam turrets. (Don't really need single beam turrets, as broadsiding is already pretty well set with them, and turrets would get lower damage anyway, than that single beam array). But this way, when you have beam abilities, your turrets could benefit from then. Instead of basically either having to lose out on enhancing your DBBs, but losing out on your turrets, or going all cannons.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Tech DOFFs are free. AtB is no more expensive than any other build - and - because of running the 3x Tech, probably cheaper than builds looking at AP DOFFs/etc/etc/etc...
My position on it isn't that it should be nerfed but it should be adjusted, if tech doffs had an aux offline mode (akin to the cloak's shields offline) attached to them (rather than draining to 5) then power transfer would come into the equation meaning that you wouldn't be able to straight chain it, if we also add in that tech doffs don't affect the cooldown of the A2B copy that activates it that would make it a less common thing, the cooldown reduction would be powerful but not overpowering to other concepts.
Another option is to make the cooldown reduction scale with aux power though I fear that would nullify the effect :P
If AtB capped Aux at 5, one couldn't easily get around it. If both copies of AtB actually dropped it to 5, instead of just the first...even though the first doesn't really take it to 5...but it's the thought that counts, right? - then even then it might be more balanced.
If it did what it was supposed to do in the first place, then we might be in a place to discuss it better, eh? As is...yeah, it's out of whack...
Rather why not expand the usage of auxiliary power and make it a bit more useful. Perhaps have auxiliary increases weapon proc effect or augment torpedo damage or speed. As it stands the lack of aux isn't that much of negative. Shouldn't build balance hinge upon gaining something by losing out in some other way?
My character Tsin'xing
I'd like to see all torpedos do a percentage of damage straight to hull. With this compromise, cruisers can have more DPS while not getting cool downs to all BO powers.