However, I think that there need to be other viable builds for a tactical cruiser.
I think I do pretty well with mine, which uses Damage Control Engineers to sustain Emergency Power to X, and a surprisingly large number of 'normal' consoles, but it's definitely not going to be pinging 15K+ DPS.
I don't think it should be removed either, considering it's making quite a few ships viable, that have been severely lacking before.
The only negative thing I can see about it is, that it has become the sole solution to a ship performing subpar. You have a new guy posting about how to improve their escort/science ship/non-A2B capable cruiser and often the only answer they'll get is "get a different ship and go A2B".
I'm up for removing Aux2Bat setups, if we can remove the following setups as well;
- Speed Tanking
- Feedback Pulse builds
- Extend Shield Chainers
- Zombie Builds
- Vamp Builds
- Bleedthrough Builds
- Leech Builds
- Gravity Well Suckers
- Uber de-cloak alpha-strikers
- 50K dmg Scimitar Elite Fleet Run Builds
- ... and a host of other builds
Personally I don't get this post. I'm assuming that since you can't kill an aux2bat build in PvP, you want to remove it??? I tried Aux2Bat along with micro managing aux batteries is not worth the heal tradeoff. Chaining Aux2SiF along with EPtW or SPtS is a much viable option, especially in PvP. Oh I forgot to add that to the list.
I'm up for removing Aux2Bat setups, if we can remove the following setups as well;
- Speed Tanking
- Feedback Pulse builds
- Extend Shield Chainers
- Zombie Builds
- Vamp Builds
- Bleedthrough Builds
- Leech Builds
- Gravity Well Suckers
- Uber de-cloak alpha-strikers
- 50K dmg Scimitar Elite Fleet Run Builds
- ... and a host of other builds
Personally I don't get this post. I'm assuming that since you can't kill an aux2bat build in PvP, you want to remove it??? I tried Aux2Bat along with micro managing aux batteries is not worth the heal tradeoff. Chaining Aux2SiF along with EPtW or SPtS is a much viable option, especially in PvP. Oh I forgot to add that to the list.
Personally, I think A2B FaW spam is more of a problem for PvE than for PvP, actually.
They're far from invulnerable - they just have very high skill cycle rate, because they effectively run double copies of all the skills. You know, 22 available boff abilities instead of the standard 12. But spike them at the right moment, maybe subnuke them, and they're just as fried as all the others.
PvE, well, I already posted about my issue with it in PvE. It makes most other ships completely redundant if teamed with 2-3+ A2B FaW spammers.
Aux2batt is fine, stop trolling the forum because you don't like this simple build. Escorts should not rule the skies, they are called escorts and not main battleships that should lead all.
They should rule the skies in the terms of dps. But there should also be certain consequences for them, namely being glass cannons. But over time they got so tanky that no one needed other types of vessels. Now it's the other way around. From one extreme to another.
I don't think it should be removed either, considering it's making quite a few ships viable, that have been severely lacking before.
How they were not viable? Cruiser were and still are the best healers. And if you specced one correctly, youd did not have a slightest problem in PvE either.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
Yeah, cause saying what losers don't wanna hear is trolling. Whatever. Learn to play tho. Not relying on cheap methods to win makes a person a better player. FACT. Defending cheaters is not something I'm going to do. Call me a troll or whatever. I don't care.
Saying that people who use it are relying on it as some sort of crutch to prop up their inadequacy as players is something of a misnomer. Frankly, I'll spank your TRIBBLE with a non-A2B build no problem - I'll just do it harder and faster with an A2B one. FACT.
I don't think it should be removed either, considering it's making quite a few ships viable, that have been severely lacking before.
This is not a viable justification for it to continue existing as it is - it's a vicious cycle of the A2B status quo being defended because it makes otherwise sub-par ships perform decently, and said ships never being looked at by the devs because A2B increases their performance potential.
The only negative thing I can see about it is, that it has become the sole solution to a ship performing subpar. You have a new guy posting about how to improve their escort/science ship/non-A2B capable cruiser and often the only answer they'll get is "get a different ship and go A2B".
This highlights how stupidly powerful the mechanic is. Take any ship you want, build it however you want, and so long as you have at least one lt. eng slot for a copy of A2B you're pretty much golden.
Unless you shun A2B on principle or for some sort of "sitting on your high horse staring down your nose in disdain at all the plebs" self-gratification, there's really little reason not to incorporate at least 1 copy into just about any build you want to play with.
Don't forget the 3rd reason for not running A2B. That you can't be bothered to grind for/afford to buy the 3 technician doffs and Marion... :cool:
Marion, costs about 35 million EC. 80 million EC gets you a Jem Hadar Dreadnought Carrier.
I know where I'd put my EC.... Clue, it's not the bloke with a womans name...:D
Really? Marion? I thought we'd moved past that :P
What with overcapping beams, FaW's drain being bugged and the Borg 2-piece OWA, you're probably better off replacing Marion with the Hazard Cleanse on EPtX doff, for 50% at cleanseAll every EPtX activation.
Marion, costs about 35 million EC. 80 million EC gets you a Jem Hadar Dreadnought Carrier
The DEM/Marion combo.... honestly, it's most impressive how a few people with a vested interest have turned a very niche doff & ability that offers a minor sustained DPS boost at best, into a massive EC generator. Marion would be worth diddly-squat if not for an effectively orchestrated wool-pulling campaign that apparently got half the playerbase salivating at the mouth.
Saying that people who use it are relying on it as some sort of crutch to prop up their inadequacy as players is something of a misnomer. Frankly, I'll spank your TRIBBLE with a non-A2B build no problem - I'll just do it harder and faster with an A2B one. FACT.
Whoa whoa whoa! Is that a challenge? That last person to openly challenge me on these forums died 5 times in a row. You'll be up against negative 240 power drain or a Feedback pulse so powerful-- you'll die within 2 seconds: Your Feedback Pulse III deals 108062 (152139) FeedbackPulse to Player.
No player in this entire universe can live from that, and it was non critical. I talk TRIBBLE, but I back it up. I suggest you back it up... A2B or no A2B. Draw or you lose are the only options versus me. Either way you die in both. @Atlantra to find me. Bring it on anytime. :cool:
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Whoa whoa whoa! Is that a challenge? That last person to openly challenge me on these forums died 5 times in a row. You'll be up against negative 240 power drain or a Feedback pulse so powerful-- you'll die within 2 seconds: Your Feedback Pulse III deals 108062 (152139) FeedbackPulse to Player.
No player in this entire universe can live from that, and it was non critical. I talk TRIBBLE, but I back it up. I suggest you back it up... A2B or no A2B. Draw or you lose are the only options versus me. Either way you die in both. @Atlantra to find me. Bring it on anytime. :cool:
Hey, can you ping me in STO, I'm working on fine-tooning my SCI build that is specc'd into Particle Generators. Essentially to one shot the alpha strikers in PvP with my feedback pulse! There is nothing more glorious than seeing a "uber alpha striker" getting one shotted by their own damage!
See the pattern? All ships that I enjoy flying, but are pretty much useless without A2B. The real fact is, this whole game is OP. Hell, even the winter event is laughable with crazy DPS. So, what's one more OP thing when, as brangel13 did a fine job of pointing out, OP is everywhere.
However, if A2B can be "fixed" without ruining it's ability to make useless ships useful in this DPS race, have at it.
I been playing the voth contested zone since it came out. For some reason I hear everyone complaining about the damage output for a science vessel being so low, that players don't want to play em.
I am not gonna sit here and explain the difference between a cannon boats dps and a science vessels exotic damage output. They are 2 different play styles.
My science vessel gets 3rd place and up on almost every pve Que. I out dps alot of players. Aux2bat helps make this possible the majority of times. With my tractor beam and full power to aux, I can remove half or more of an enemies health in one cast.(non-player)
I would say to do a little research from other players on how to set up your ship, if you are having issues. The biggest issue in game I would say is the PVP balance. But even that is not that bad either. depending on your gear and skill as a captain.(and getting Ganked is just apart of PVP, that will never go away).
Try this site for more info: http://www.stoacademy.com/index.php
Its a great site for comparing skill sets for different play styles and ships etc,..
My opinion on A2B/BFAW is hopefully straightforward;
Cryptic have specifically developed the abilities, equipment, ships etc. in STO with a kind of balance in mind.
What we players experience is purely how we have interfaced with all those abilities, equipment, ships etc. - we don't know the core intention of Cryptic's developments.
If we players discover a way to mix and match the various things Cryptic have add to the game and create something as powerful as A2B+BFAW+DEM & relevant DOFF's, is it not the intention of Cryptic to allow this with the way the game mechanics work at present?
If an A2B+BFAW+DEM & DOFF's setup is truly overpowered and requires a reduction in effectiveness, it would be an admission of oversight on Cryptic's behalf to how various game mechanics interface with one another in their game.
My only concern is if such powerful setups become the new norm thus raising the bar for everyone else to reach.
What will Cryptic consider the absolute in effectiveness for combat in STO? I don't know but I am willing to see what actions they take, if any.
sig.
It's not what is done or said but why.
Words and actions may be judged, but motives?
I'd like to see them add NEW harder content to PvE to challenge the so called OP builds, rather than see them nerf builds to be honest.
Sure, those who can't do the supposed OP DPS will cry that they can't compete at this level, and call me elitist but you don't see taxi drivers complaining that they aren't allowed to enter the F1 World Grand Prix do you?
Just don't reduce the rewards that are already there, or give too large rewards to those beating the harder content. Folks should take it on because they want to, not because the reward is stupidly big.
With that build (that I personally never use either) cruisers can do damage on par with escorts, arguably it's the one trick up its sleeve to make cruisers worthwhile.
Before this trick came along it was always the 'escorts online' argument. Tell me, have you heard this recently? Is it bad that we don't hear such things these days?
What we should be discussing is when science captains get such a trick up its sleeve, then for the first time since I've been playing all careers could be considered equal in terms of damage output.
Oh no, not that. I thought escorts were supposed to be the only ones that do high dps (sarcasm initiated). Lol. I can already see the threads of "how does a sci or eng cruiser out dps my escort? This is bs." But its true that aux2batt isn't only useful in damage output. I get some pretty quick cooldowns for my gal retros heals with this setup. I agree that certain builds are op'd by being able to use more than 1, but there are some that are pretty well balanced with 2.
Ok so if we remove A2B with tech doffs what will it actually do?
Players will move on to using Zemok for attack pattern cooldowns, DCE for EptX abilities and nobody in a high damage PvE build ever really cared about their sci abilities being on global except that weird PO build I saw.
So clearly the game can live without it right?
Wrong. A lot of people use a single A2B for reducing cooldowns on multiple science abilities on ships like the wells which lets face it, sci and it's cooldown doffs are as synergistic as sheep and wolves. That's also assuming they're even working properly (glares at deflector doff) and affect all abilities they should.
If you're pro removing A2B you should look at removing all cooldown reducing items, that's doffs, tactical initiative etc. Otherwise all you're doing is increasing the gap between those who can afford to buy all this stuff and those who can't which will just end up detrimental to average performance. With tactical initiative you'd then just be securing tactical captains as the go to, best captain ever for space outside of PvP.
Yes I do use A2B on 2 ships, I also don't use it on another 4 ships, 2 of which get in the mid 20 thousands for DPS. The other 2 are not optimised, WIP or DPS is not what they're after.
The biggest problem is that when people hear A2B, they immediately think DPS and omg-the-cruisers-are-out-dpsing-the-escorts. While this is somewhat true, if you have a good build, the cruisers are almost always accomplishing this by spamming FAW. They are hitting targets left, right, up and down, but what they are doing is quantitative damage and not qualitative damage.
Escorts are more focus fire oriented. Almost all of their DPS comes from one direction and goes to an opposite direction. Escort damage is more qualitative. Escort pilots hit fewer targets, so their overall DPS may be lower than an A2B FAW spammy cruiser, but their shots individually still do more damage and count more towards the actual killing of targets.
Personally, I love A2B and don't think it needs to be messed with. I run it on cruisers and escorts both, so I do have experience in the A2B cruiser debate. I even run a dual A2B carrier with a science captain, the triple whammy of aux dependency. I can feel the difference when I play each class of ship. My cruisers wipe up smallish mobs better than my escorts, but my escorts kill single targets, especially heavy hitting ships and structures much faster than any of my cruisers ever could.
People really do need to stop comparing cruisers/science ships/escorts when discussing the power of A2B. The ships are not the same. Their basic mechanics are different. There is just no way to accurately compare what is going on with 3 different builds from 3 different classes, even if they are all A2B. A2B is not a single thing. It is a tool that you build around, much like you build around your weapon types.
Should A2B exist? Absolutely it should. Is it OPed? It can be, in the same way that a JHDC with a well designed build can be called OPed when compared to any escort with a ... less than optimized build. Is A2B an automagical DPS granting genie that makes you a god on the battlefield? No. You still have to take the time to understand how it works with your ship and be willing to invest the resources required to do it "right". Every single class and subclass of ship in the game can be A2Bed with success. Making a simplistic argument like, "A2B cruisers always do more damage than escorts. NERF!", is just, well, it's just stupid really.
Even in the A2B world, escorts are the kings of damage, cruisers are still tanks with a focus more on pressure damage and science ships can be so debilitating that everyone else will want them dead as soon as possible.
Whoa whoa whoa! Is that a challenge? That last person to openly challenge me on these forums died 5 times in a row. You'll be up against negative 240 power drain or a Feedback pulse so powerful-- you'll die within 2 seconds: Your Feedback Pulse III deals 108062 (152139) FeedbackPulse to Player.
No player in this entire universe can live from that, and it was non critical. I talk TRIBBLE, but I back it up. I suggest you back it up... A2B or no A2B. Draw or you lose are the only options versus me. Either way you die in both. @Atlantra to find me. Bring it on anytime. :cool:
I'm happy to back my **** up - I'll look you up this weekend. :cool:
"My power drain/feedback pulse is so uber it will beat your A2B build easily with 108k damage in a single hit!"
NERF power drain/feedback pulse builds! Clearly they're overpowered! (J/K)
Thank you for your posts today, they've kept me chuckling through most of it.
Yeah really.... It makes you wonder doesn't it? :P
I've actually tinkered with several variants. One of my chars flies a Mogai with a DBB BFaW A2B/EPtX setup.... It's a weird complex hybrid but it seems to work.
A "LOT" of things probably shouldn't exist in this game. Plasmonic Leech? Valdore console? Aux2bat doffs? Marion? All of these things fuse together to form an unstoppable monstrosity, even if each individual piece is not considered overpowered or otherwise warping the mechanics of the game. But the dye is cast at this point and the only way to fix the inherit brokenness of the game would be to start over. Making the changes that would really need to be made to achieve a WoW like level of balance at this point however just wouldn't fly. You would have far too many people leaving the game over the changing of the things they paid a fortune for. (one of the flaws of F2P, make a bad call with a micro transaction item and changing it could cause war)
My issue with the Aux2Bat build is that giving up auxiliary power for effectively doubling the mileage of your ships abilities is simply so good a bargain that the build is approaching the status of being the "correct build". The one so good that it invalidates all others. It's also of little consolation to Escorts with "spike" damage or Cruisers with "tank" builds that they have something Aux2Bat does not have because those things are irrelevant in a game where everything boils down to a dps race.
Who knows, maybe if Tactical cubes could regenerate their shields from nothing to full power 20 seconds after they collapse completely or something there "might" be a reason to escorts doing half the average dps in exchange for "spike damage". Maybe in a game where cubes hit so hard that my tactical Scimitar with valdore console alone couldn't tank it without seriously giving up a lot of dps we could see a use for tank builds. But STO is none of these things. STO is a dps race. As a dps race, the Aux2Bat is king.
You have some points, but, come on, any non-A2B escort with even modestly decent equipment has become more than enough to tear up STFs, so does it really matter? It is a bit telling that I can solo an entire side in KASE in a plain Aventine if I have to.
A2B is not the end all and be all. Some good ships can't use it (Kumari). Some ships that can use it would be better off without it (Charal). Neither of these specific examples need A2B to be high DPSers and in the case of the Charal, do more without A2B. Heck, I can break 13k in my FAE. So, I still don't see why people complain about A2B so much.
I have a fleetmate who is big into DPS builds. We have nearly identical builds...skill layouts, weapons, ships, consoles, BOffs, DOffs...and my record in my ship is 18k. He consistently breaks 20k and I have seen him do 26k. Yes, A2B helps up the DPS, but there is obviously a lot more going on than simply throwing some DOffs and engineering powers at a build and calling it a day.
Again, I think a lot of complaints come from people not understanding how A2B works, or having no experience using it, seeing someone put up impressive numbers, asking about it and being told "A2B", looking at their own low scores that they have because they don't understand how their ship is built and then screaming "HAX!", because that's what it must be.
I like A2B because in a "DPS race" game that has little in the way of challenge, one of the only challenges left is to see exactly how far one can push things.
I am in love with using my cruiser, have been ever since I can recall playing (which isnt very long mind you). I liked the idea of broadsiding, and being safe in the knowledge that I can rush head first into a group of just about anything with some degree of confidence that I wont instaplode. With that passion in mind, I have been apporached by some with the idea that I should be using 2 copies of Aux2Bat. I tried it, and even with green/blue Doffs I can see the warrant of such a build. But I personally did not like it. When I would dump my aux, some abilities would go grey, didnt like that. Didn't like how with the new set up all of my skills recharges would (yes its a good thing) constantly be flicked down, I had built up a good timing sense of the previous skills I had always used. To be honest, Aux2Bat builds seem amazing, but I find them (at least in PVE) a bit.... well, lackluster.
As a cruiser, with just one EPS console, and skills also placed into subsystem regen. My weapon power stays at a comfortable 120-125, and even at full broadsiding it seldomly goes below 90. Now is that the very best I could do, perhaps not, I don't really know. But to dump aux every such a second to squeek out some more damage just seems like playing my game to someone else expectations. Again, my systems are very high as a rule, and never seem to go down lower than 90, so unless aux2bat could make it pretty much perma-125... well i just dont see myself using someones else's idea of what works for such a low pay out. Please correct me though if Aux2Bat actually makes a very large difference
(sub note - I am an engineer, and usually bring with me... dont kill me for this... 4 copies of EPtX, epts and eptw usually, each use dumps loads of power into all my systems, and with 4 copies i can easily maintain near perma resistances and damage buffs.)
Seriously A2B is Noobish? Cheating? for a long time DHCs have dominated the game and all other forms of Builds were incomparable in terms of DPS now that other Builds can compete you say it's "Noobish"? this isn't call of duty in my perspective anyone who Spammed DHCs and Turrets were Noobs.
Comments
However, I think that there need to be other viable builds for a tactical cruiser.
I think I do pretty well with mine, which uses Damage Control Engineers to sustain Emergency Power to X, and a surprisingly large number of 'normal' consoles, but it's definitely not going to be pinging 15K+ DPS.
The only negative thing I can see about it is, that it has become the sole solution to a ship performing subpar. You have a new guy posting about how to improve their escort/science ship/non-A2B capable cruiser and often the only answer they'll get is "get a different ship and go A2B".
- Speed Tanking
- Feedback Pulse builds
- Extend Shield Chainers
- Zombie Builds
- Vamp Builds
- Bleedthrough Builds
- Leech Builds
- Gravity Well Suckers
- Uber de-cloak alpha-strikers
- 50K dmg Scimitar Elite Fleet Run Builds
- ... and a host of other builds
Personally I don't get this post. I'm assuming that since you can't kill an aux2bat build in PvP, you want to remove it??? I tried Aux2Bat along with micro managing aux batteries is not worth the heal tradeoff. Chaining Aux2SiF along with EPtW or SPtS is a much viable option, especially in PvP. Oh I forgot to add that to the list.
Personally, I think A2B FaW spam is more of a problem for PvE than for PvP, actually.
They're far from invulnerable - they just have very high skill cycle rate, because they effectively run double copies of all the skills. You know, 22 available boff abilities instead of the standard 12. But spike them at the right moment, maybe subnuke them, and they're just as fried as all the others.
PvE, well, I already posted about my issue with it in PvE. It makes most other ships completely redundant if teamed with 2-3+ A2B FaW spammers.
The rest? Just another day on the STO forums...:rolleyes:
They should rule the skies in the terms of dps. But there should also be certain consequences for them, namely being glass cannons. But over time they got so tanky that no one needed other types of vessels. Now it's the other way around. From one extreme to another.
How they were not viable? Cruiser were and still are the best healers. And if you specced one correctly, youd did not have a slightest problem in PvE either.
Saying that people who use it are relying on it as some sort of crutch to prop up their inadequacy as players is something of a misnomer. Frankly, I'll spank your TRIBBLE with a non-A2B build no problem - I'll just do it harder and faster with an A2B one. FACT.
This is not a viable justification for it to continue existing as it is - it's a vicious cycle of the A2B status quo being defended because it makes otherwise sub-par ships perform decently, and said ships never being looked at by the devs because A2B increases their performance potential.
This highlights how stupidly powerful the mechanic is. Take any ship you want, build it however you want, and so long as you have at least one lt. eng slot for a copy of A2B you're pretty much golden.
Unless you shun A2B on principle or for some sort of "sitting on your high horse staring down your nose in disdain at all the plebs" self-gratification, there's really little reason not to incorporate at least 1 copy into just about any build you want to play with.
Marion, costs about 35 million EC. 80 million EC gets you a Jem Hadar Dreadnought Carrier.
I know where I'd put my EC.... Clue, it's not the bloke with a womans name...:D
Really? Marion? I thought we'd moved past that :P
What with overcapping beams, FaW's drain being bugged and the Borg 2-piece OWA, you're probably better off replacing Marion with the Hazard Cleanse on EPtX doff, for 50% at cleanseAll every EPtX activation.
The DEM/Marion combo.... honestly, it's most impressive how a few people with a vested interest have turned a very niche doff & ability that offers a minor sustained DPS boost at best, into a massive EC generator. Marion would be worth diddly-squat if not for an effectively orchestrated wool-pulling campaign that apparently got half the playerbase salivating at the mouth.
Whoa whoa whoa! Is that a challenge? That last person to openly challenge me on these forums died 5 times in a row. You'll be up against negative 240 power drain or a Feedback pulse so powerful-- you'll die within 2 seconds:
Your Feedback Pulse III deals 108062 (152139) FeedbackPulse to Player.
No player in this entire universe can live from that, and it was non critical. I talk TRIBBLE, but I back it up. I suggest you back it up... A2B or no A2B. Draw or you lose are the only options versus me. Either way you die in both. @Atlantra to find me. Bring it on anytime. :cool:
Hey, can you ping me in STO, I'm working on fine-tooning my SCI build that is specc'd into Particle Generators. Essentially to one shot the alpha strikers in PvP with my feedback pulse! There is nothing more glorious than seeing a "uber alpha striker" getting one shotted by their own damage!
I'd rather have 3 DOff slots, decent Aux powers, the [AMP] bonus, and the reputation passives.
I'm happy that Aux2Batt is FotM, it means cruisers aren't assumed to be liabilities anymore.
"A2B is overpowered and should be removed"
followed by:-
"My power drain/feedback pulse is so uber it will beat your A2B build easily with 108k damage in a single hit!"
NERF power drain/feedback pulse builds! Clearly they're overpowered!
Thank you for your posts today, they've kept me chuckling through most of it.
Galaxy X
Ambassador
Kamarag
See the pattern? All ships that I enjoy flying, but are pretty much useless without A2B. The real fact is, this whole game is OP. Hell, even the winter event is laughable with crazy DPS. So, what's one more OP thing when, as brangel13 did a fine job of pointing out, OP is everywhere.
However, if A2B can be "fixed" without ruining it's ability to make useless ships useful in this DPS race, have at it.
I am not gonna sit here and explain the difference between a cannon boats dps and a science vessels exotic damage output. They are 2 different play styles.
My science vessel gets 3rd place and up on almost every pve Que. I out dps alot of players. Aux2bat helps make this possible the majority of times. With my tractor beam and full power to aux, I can remove half or more of an enemies health in one cast.(non-player)
I would say to do a little research from other players on how to set up your ship, if you are having issues. The biggest issue in game I would say is the PVP balance. But even that is not that bad either. depending on your gear and skill as a captain.(and getting Ganked is just apart of PVP, that will never go away).
Try this site for more info: http://www.stoacademy.com/index.php
Its a great site for comparing skill sets for different play styles and ships etc,..
Cryptic have specifically developed the abilities, equipment, ships etc. in STO with a kind of balance in mind.
What we players experience is purely how we have interfaced with all those abilities, equipment, ships etc. - we don't know the core intention of Cryptic's developments.
If we players discover a way to mix and match the various things Cryptic have add to the game and create something as powerful as A2B+BFAW+DEM & relevant DOFF's, is it not the intention of Cryptic to allow this with the way the game mechanics work at present?
If an A2B+BFAW+DEM & DOFF's setup is truly overpowered and requires a reduction in effectiveness, it would be an admission of oversight on Cryptic's behalf to how various game mechanics interface with one another in their game.
My only concern is if such powerful setups become the new norm thus raising the bar for everyone else to reach.
What will Cryptic consider the absolute in effectiveness for combat in STO? I don't know but I am willing to see what actions they take, if any.
It's not what is done or said but why.
Words and actions may be judged, but motives?
Motives are truth to a believer
Sure, those who can't do the supposed OP DPS will cry that they can't compete at this level, and call me elitist but you don't see taxi drivers complaining that they aren't allowed to enter the F1 World Grand Prix do you?
Just don't reduce the rewards that are already there, or give too large rewards to those beating the harder content. Folks should take it on because they want to, not because the reward is stupidly big.
Oh no, not that. I thought escorts were supposed to be the only ones that do high dps (sarcasm initiated). Lol. I can already see the threads of "how does a sci or eng cruiser out dps my escort? This is bs." But its true that aux2batt isn't only useful in damage output. I get some pretty quick cooldowns for my gal retros heals with this setup. I agree that certain builds are op'd by being able to use more than 1, but there are some that are pretty well balanced with 2.
Look at OP's avatar for the rest of the story on this thread.
Ok so if we remove A2B with tech doffs what will it actually do?
Players will move on to using Zemok for attack pattern cooldowns, DCE for EptX abilities and nobody in a high damage PvE build ever really cared about their sci abilities being on global except that weird PO build I saw.
So clearly the game can live without it right?
Wrong. A lot of people use a single A2B for reducing cooldowns on multiple science abilities on ships like the wells which lets face it, sci and it's cooldown doffs are as synergistic as sheep and wolves. That's also assuming they're even working properly (glares at deflector doff) and affect all abilities they should.
If you're pro removing A2B you should look at removing all cooldown reducing items, that's doffs, tactical initiative etc. Otherwise all you're doing is increasing the gap between those who can afford to buy all this stuff and those who can't which will just end up detrimental to average performance. With tactical initiative you'd then just be securing tactical captains as the go to, best captain ever for space outside of PvP.
Yes I do use A2B on 2 ships, I also don't use it on another 4 ships, 2 of which get in the mid 20 thousands for DPS. The other 2 are not optimised, WIP or DPS is not what they're after.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Escorts are more focus fire oriented. Almost all of their DPS comes from one direction and goes to an opposite direction. Escort damage is more qualitative. Escort pilots hit fewer targets, so their overall DPS may be lower than an A2B FAW spammy cruiser, but their shots individually still do more damage and count more towards the actual killing of targets.
Personally, I love A2B and don't think it needs to be messed with. I run it on cruisers and escorts both, so I do have experience in the A2B cruiser debate. I even run a dual A2B carrier with a science captain, the triple whammy of aux dependency. I can feel the difference when I play each class of ship. My cruisers wipe up smallish mobs better than my escorts, but my escorts kill single targets, especially heavy hitting ships and structures much faster than any of my cruisers ever could.
People really do need to stop comparing cruisers/science ships/escorts when discussing the power of A2B. The ships are not the same. Their basic mechanics are different. There is just no way to accurately compare what is going on with 3 different builds from 3 different classes, even if they are all A2B. A2B is not a single thing. It is a tool that you build around, much like you build around your weapon types.
Should A2B exist? Absolutely it should. Is it OPed? It can be, in the same way that a JHDC with a well designed build can be called OPed when compared to any escort with a ... less than optimized build. Is A2B an automagical DPS granting genie that makes you a god on the battlefield? No. You still have to take the time to understand how it works with your ship and be willing to invest the resources required to do it "right". Every single class and subclass of ship in the game can be A2Bed with success. Making a simplistic argument like, "A2B cruisers always do more damage than escorts. NERF!", is just, well, it's just stupid really.
Even in the A2B world, escorts are the kings of damage, cruisers are still tanks with a focus more on pressure damage and science ships can be so debilitating that everyone else will want them dead as soon as possible.
I'm happy to back my **** up - I'll look you up this weekend. :cool:
I've actually tinkered with several variants. One of my chars flies a Mogai with a DBB BFaW A2B/EPtX setup.... It's a weird complex hybrid but it seems to work.
I often use both DCE and Techs.
My character Tsin'xing
My issue with the Aux2Bat build is that giving up auxiliary power for effectively doubling the mileage of your ships abilities is simply so good a bargain that the build is approaching the status of being the "correct build". The one so good that it invalidates all others. It's also of little consolation to Escorts with "spike" damage or Cruisers with "tank" builds that they have something Aux2Bat does not have because those things are irrelevant in a game where everything boils down to a dps race.
Who knows, maybe if Tactical cubes could regenerate their shields from nothing to full power 20 seconds after they collapse completely or something there "might" be a reason to escorts doing half the average dps in exchange for "spike damage". Maybe in a game where cubes hit so hard that my tactical Scimitar with valdore console alone couldn't tank it without seriously giving up a lot of dps we could see a use for tank builds. But STO is none of these things. STO is a dps race. As a dps race, the Aux2Bat is king.
A2B is not the end all and be all. Some good ships can't use it (Kumari). Some ships that can use it would be better off without it (Charal). Neither of these specific examples need A2B to be high DPSers and in the case of the Charal, do more without A2B. Heck, I can break 13k in my FAE. So, I still don't see why people complain about A2B so much.
I have a fleetmate who is big into DPS builds. We have nearly identical builds...skill layouts, weapons, ships, consoles, BOffs, DOffs...and my record in my ship is 18k. He consistently breaks 20k and I have seen him do 26k. Yes, A2B helps up the DPS, but there is obviously a lot more going on than simply throwing some DOffs and engineering powers at a build and calling it a day.
Again, I think a lot of complaints come from people not understanding how A2B works, or having no experience using it, seeing someone put up impressive numbers, asking about it and being told "A2B", looking at their own low scores that they have because they don't understand how their ship is built and then screaming "HAX!", because that's what it must be.
I like A2B because in a "DPS race" game that has little in the way of challenge, one of the only challenges left is to see exactly how far one can push things.
I am in love with using my cruiser, have been ever since I can recall playing (which isnt very long mind you). I liked the idea of broadsiding, and being safe in the knowledge that I can rush head first into a group of just about anything with some degree of confidence that I wont instaplode. With that passion in mind, I have been apporached by some with the idea that I should be using 2 copies of Aux2Bat. I tried it, and even with green/blue Doffs I can see the warrant of such a build. But I personally did not like it. When I would dump my aux, some abilities would go grey, didnt like that. Didn't like how with the new set up all of my skills recharges would (yes its a good thing) constantly be flicked down, I had built up a good timing sense of the previous skills I had always used. To be honest, Aux2Bat builds seem amazing, but I find them (at least in PVE) a bit.... well, lackluster.
As a cruiser, with just one EPS console, and skills also placed into subsystem regen. My weapon power stays at a comfortable 120-125, and even at full broadsiding it seldomly goes below 90. Now is that the very best I could do, perhaps not, I don't really know. But to dump aux every such a second to squeek out some more damage just seems like playing my game to someone else expectations. Again, my systems are very high as a rule, and never seem to go down lower than 90, so unless aux2bat could make it pretty much perma-125... well i just dont see myself using someones else's idea of what works for such a low pay out. Please correct me though if Aux2Bat actually makes a very large difference
(sub note - I am an engineer, and usually bring with me... dont kill me for this... 4 copies of EPtX, epts and eptw usually, each use dumps loads of power into all my systems, and with 4 copies i can easily maintain near perma resistances and damage buffs.)
1) Should this thread ever have been posted? Answer: No.
2) Does the OP know what the heck he's talking about IN THE SLIGHTEST? Answer: No.
/Thread
3) How is it that there are still people who haven't twigged that the OP was trolling when even their avatar is a troll face?