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Forums > Home› Support› PC Gameplay Bug Reports

Voth recovering from vaporization is absurd.

badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
edited January 2014 in PC Gameplay Bug Reports
The title says it: Voth recovering from having their molecules phased out of existence and/or turned into so many vapors is absurd, breaks immersion and is a crappy holdover from a lazy mechanic that simply means vaporization is simply a visualization: nothing more, nothing less.

On the occasion that an enemy is VAPORIZED...it should never resurrect...EVER.

Look, we pay money for weapons that increase our chances to vape. We pay and go through a lot of hassle to use the expose/exploit mechanic. This should NOT happen! (One might make an exception to the TOS hand phaser as it is more of a gimmick. But still....)

I mean, the Borg don't even come back from it. Utter bullocks!
Post edited by badname834854 on
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Comments

  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    It is pretty BS, doesnt matter if its a "visual" effect, if its that misleading remove the effect.

    Not to mention the full health, full shields and immunity to damage.

    Then on top of that the stupid voth ships that dont blow up SPECIFICALLY so those little buggers can come ressurect them to FULL SHIELDS AND HULL.

    Kill something so we can actually destroy the Voth instead of fighting the same person 3-4 times becasue they resurect each other over and over again. Come on give that ability a CD so they cant resurrect each other over and over again.
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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    capnshadow27 wrote: »
    It is pretty BS, doesnt matter if its a "visual" effect, if its that misleading remove the effect.
    But the weapons we use canonically vaporize biological targets. It would be like... taking out the planet Vulcan from Star Trek.
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    orangeitis wrote: »
    But the weapons we use canonically vaporize biological targets. It would be like... taking out the planet Vulcan from Star Trek.

    If i blow up the planet vulcan its not just a visual effect though. Thats what im saying is BS, if they vaporize they vaporize there is no coming back from that....
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  • admiraldcadmiraldc Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    It's possible for you to do that too, you know.

    One of my boffs got vaped by the 23rd century phasers in the Devidian missions once. Did the revive thing. Boff was back.

    This isn't new, the Voth having a revive is just making it more obvious.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    capnshadow27 wrote: »
    If i blow up the planet vulcan its not just a visual effect though. Thats what im saying is BS, if they vaporize they vaporize there is no coming back from that....
    I mean that vaporizing a biological target with beam weapons is one of the staples of Star Trek combat, and in-continuity, it would need to be explained why the targets aren't getting vaporized. I get that it isn't important gameplay-wise, but it is important story-wise.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Ignoring repair ships, now THAT is absurd!

    And as for them vaporizing, good thing for you that they do, as the blast on an exploding Citadel would probably be more than you could handle. Consider it a form of grace on the part of the devs that they just kinda gently 'derez.'

    N.B. Most of them actually *do* explode: they sit there disabled, and blow up when you killed the repair ship(s) too.
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  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    orangeitis wrote: »
    I mean that vaporizing a biological target with beam weapons is one of the staples of Star Trek combat, and in-continuity, it would need to be explained why the targets aren't getting vaporized. I get that it isn't important gameplay-wise, but it is important story-wise.

    Agreed.

    I read somewhere that the Roms use to do this in Big Dig/ Rom Temple and that was fixed. If it was ever "fixed" I cannot confirm and am too lazy to search if this ever was the case. In any case, it's REALLY old.

    I mean, pretty much most Voth = 2 Voth, really with their Resurrection getting them full shields and health. We should be allowed to permavape them when we get lucky enough to get that.

    All that said, there are some creatures that need the visualization, but will never get it, since they are not humanoid, and hence, custom ones would be needed. The fact that Mook (the Mugato in Colony Invasion) doesn't have a Vaporization visualization always boggled me, particularly in light of the fact that a very popular scene from TOS was of one getting vaped!!!! Like here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1VoH_0l-E (Nice shot, Bones! go to :30 for the fun...)
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Purely from a gameplay perspective, groups of voth with multiple medics are a nightmare to fight because they just keep rezzing eachother (usually while Spec Ops stab you in the back, but anyway). Being able to permanently remove an enemy from the field by disintegrating them seems like the obvious and intuitive counter to chain-rezzing. Also, disintegrations do take more skill and attention that just blasting away in the general direction of the bad guys and so should be rewarded.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Voth in their entirety are absurd. Nothing about them is good. They are ruining the game, quite literally.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    yeah I agree. I understand when you "kill" them they're really playing dead like in the show, but when vaporized they should stay dead. This sounds like a bug/oversight to me.
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I don't know, I've been "vap'd" from an exploit shot and come back. How is it anymore of an immersion breaker that a player revives or an npc. Not a big concern really IMO.
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  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The total lack of logical/quality standards SHOULD be a big concern, really. One of the many reasons that ground gameplay is so undesirable and so broken most of the time.
  • pokersmith1pokersmith1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I don't think vaporizing in Star Trek means what you think it means. To understand better, read this: It's just a phase.

    Edit: For those who are short on time, or just too lazy -
    [UPDATE (May 18, 16:00 UTC): After posting this, I heard from my old friend Rick Sternbach, who did art and design work for TNG and developed much of the look and feel of the series. He also wrote the TNG Tech Manual, specifically the section on phasers, so he may be regarded as something of an authority here. He confirms that yes, a phaser set to "kill" actually does send the particles of the target "somewhere else", presumably subspace. It's not defined what happens to them there, but in terms of the person getting zapped, the answer is probably nothing good. I'm satisfied with this answer, admittedly in some small part because it means my guess was right. I'll note that this idea was dreamed up long after the original series aired, and does an admirable job backwards-fitting all the things known about phasers (even the name) to make a logically consistent explanation.]

    Directly from the article.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    pokersmith1 wrote: »
    I don't think vaporizing in Star Trek means what you think it means. To understand better, read this: It's just a phase.

    Edit: For those who are short on time, or just too lazy -



    Directly from the article.
    right, but would that hold true for all types of energy weapons? I'm going with no.
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  • pokersmith1pokersmith1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    markhawkman wrote: »
    right, but would that hold true for all types of energy weapons? I'm going with no.

    Alright, next relevant quote from the article -
    If the phaser is a high-energy weapon (which they mention a few times in TNG) then it would vaporize the target. But that would cause a big explosion; you?re heating someone up to very high temperatures, so at the very least the steam explosion (from all your water content vaporizing) would be hellish. Anyone within ten meters would suffer terrible burns.

    Do you see this happen when you 'vaporize' your target with ANY energy weapon? If you don't then you have to assume all other energy weapons also do what phaser weapons do.
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  • bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited December 2013
    Just going out on a limb here buuut...

    I think it was just put in the game as a cool mechanic for the enemy to have a ship come and res them if you don't stick around. Try not to read too much into it :)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    pokersmith1 wrote: »
    Alright, next relevant quote from the article -



    Do you see this happen when you 'vaporize' your target with ANY energy weapon? If you don't then you have to assume all other energy weapons also do what phaser weapons do.
    That's illogical, especially given that some episodes of the TV show have plots that are centered on finding the remains of people who got incompletely disintegrated. I have to consider that source(Phil Plait) non-canon simply because it contradicts the show.

    ALSO, the Varon-T disruptor was specifically said to disintegrate people.

    Yes, Mr. Plait claims he got the info from Sternbach, but that is unconfirmed.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    nulonu wrote: »
    I don't know, I've been "vap'd" from an exploit shot and come back. How is it anymore of an immersion breaker that a player revives or an npc. Not a big concern really IMO.

    Because you're a player character and not an NPC :rolleyes:

    Unless you want a hardcore mode with permadeath.
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited December 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I would think when you vape something, or someone it would be more closely matched to complete vaporization or scattering of molecules, and not simply phased into another dimension.
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  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Well actually you can see a dust cloud after a vape on ground. That might be a high visual effects thing though. Meh it's not a big deal, it's just a visual effect. Just tell yourself they got reconstructed by a transporter beam if it bothers you that much.
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    nulonu wrote: »
    Well actually you can see a dust cloud after a vape on ground. That might be a high visual effects thing though. Meh it's not a big deal, it's just a visual effect. Just tell yourself they got reconstructed by a transporter beam if it bothers you that much.

    The Voth are also 400 years ahead of the Federation in some ways also. They were capable of transporting entire starships via one of their fortress ships. Surely they would be capable of reintegrating the matter of one living creature.
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  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    No matter what, it's stupid. There's no reason for it other than they forgot to fix it or don't know how to add a non-resurrect flag to the vape-state visualization.

    They aren't "thrown into another dimension" they aren't on a farm with all their loved ones and all the pets they owned, they're not holograms, they're not re-integrated and they CERTAINLY shouldn't be coming back. they are dead. D-E-A-D.

    But sadly they do.

    Please Cryptic, fix this nonsense.
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Update:

    So earlier I was playing in the Combat zone, particularly in light of the fact we have been herded there since its the last place that offers Sil, etc. But I digress...

    Sure as sh*t, ended up with an auto-recovery orgy from vaped Voth Medics.

    FFS. This time was particularly pronounced. It was asinine.

    Devs...please fix this nonsense. Vaping takes timing and attention. We deserve the permakill.
  • blackwind04xblackwind04x Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The ship uses chronitons .. for time travel.. same weapon on the temporals
  • blackwind04xblackwind04x Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The ship uses chronitons .. for time travel.. same weapon on the temporals
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    blackwind04x wrote: »
    The ship uses chronitons .. for time travel.. same weapon on the temporals

    That's great, although I'm not sure how it relates since I am speaking about ground combat....:confused:
  • xynoxxxynoxx Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Today I saw a Voth Spec Ops rez himself.

    This is nothing particularly new.

    What was unusual this time was the Voth that self rezzed had been totally disintegrated - there was nothing left TO rez, but rez he did.

    Some would say "oh it's another guy beaming in" but that's not the case since the Spec Ops guy did the usual getting up off the ground animation they always do when self rezzing.

    A little sanity checking here Cryptic.

    He wasn't wounded, he wasn't ":near death", he was a dispersing cloud of sub atomic particles. You don't come back from that.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I think this issue has been reported since season 8 was in beta testing on the tribble server.

    Only thing I can think of is that it's "working as intended". A lot of complaints about this particular issue though, and how it doesn't make sense that disintegrated Voth suddenly revive themselves. :confused:

    Basically the Voth have an ability similar to the veteran/lifetime Android bridge officer reward. I forget at this time what the ability is called, but basically it's a self rez the boff has. (Reboot maybe?)
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    monkeybone13 wrote: »

    Basically the Voth have an ability similar to the veteran/lifetime Android bridge officer reward. I forget at this time what the ability is called, but basically it's a self rez the boff has. (Reboot maybe?)

    This is likely the culprit, which means that vaporization is just a visualization. They need a way to make it so in the case that something is flagged for the vape visualization, it is also flagged to disable res ability. I don't know if they can do it without it going global. Who knows.

    Here's another thread relating to it. PLEASE feel free to pipe in; there some sensible arguments as to why it needs to be fixed.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=958881
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