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Suggestion on fleet odyssey and fleet dreadnought
paxdawn
Member Posts: 767 Arc User
There seems to be a difference of 10% hull and Shield modifier between the fleet ship version of the fed ships and the tier 5 VA ships.
May I suggest applying it to all fleet ships.
So the fleet dreadnought would have 44k hull and 1.1 shield and an additional console.
While the Odyssey will have 46,000 hull and 1.265 shield modifier. however, to compensate this maybe making Odyssey having less inertia rating, less turn rate, and less impulse modifier. The feds flagship should at least have at par or more tanking capability than lockbox flagship cruisers although with less firepower and mobility. Its justs very odd the Odyssey is the only tier 5 fed cruiser that has equal shield modifier and hull with its fleet counterpart.
Canon wise Fed cruisers are suppose to have better shields and defense than offense than its opponents and counterparts.
May I suggest applying it to all fleet ships.
So the fleet dreadnought would have 44k hull and 1.1 shield and an additional console.
While the Odyssey will have 46,000 hull and 1.265 shield modifier. however, to compensate this maybe making Odyssey having less inertia rating, less turn rate, and less impulse modifier. The feds flagship should at least have at par or more tanking capability than lockbox flagship cruisers although with less firepower and mobility. Its justs very odd the Odyssey is the only tier 5 fed cruiser that has equal shield modifier and hull with its fleet counterpart.
Canon wise Fed cruisers are suppose to have better shields and defense than offense than its opponents and counterparts.
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MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
To answer both the above, the odyssey has a weaker hull than the fleet cruisers like Advance heavy cruiser, support heavy cruiser and assault cruisers. I can accept the odyssey being weaker offensively since its purpose was never to be like a avenger battle cruiser. Its smaller hull than those supposedly better offensive centric fed cruisers just isnt right. There are 3 dreadnoughts in sto fed. of what we know, 2 of it are weaker in hull vs the other fleet cruisers. at least the galaxy x aint a fleet version yet. And the jupiter class hasnt appeared yet.
if the odyssey got better hull, as a dreadnought, it would excel on its goals as a tank better than those fleet fed cruisers i mentioned above rather than the opposite.
its a compensation to add hulls to odyssey which is inferior to other offensive centric fed cruisers. It would be unfair to add something and not subtract anything and its the only thing i could think to compensate. The physics would allow for it having more survivability and less maneuverability since it has the most crew in any current fed cruiser available to players.
its only a 900-1450 hull hp gap between said fleet ships and the oddy, nothing that small of a gap is going to do much. If your skills are setup right the oddy is one of the best hull tanks for feds even my tac toon gets about 60k+ hull in the tac oddy and if 60k+ hull isn't cutting it for you maybe posting your build may help because if your having a hard time tanking in an oddy your doing something very very wrong.
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
I call shennaigans simply for the fact that its supposed to be top ot the line brand new when it came out. It should have top hull. At the very least matching the Fleet Galaxy for hull.
FAHCR more hull check, FECR more hull check, FSCR more hull check, every Fleet cruiser having more Hull than the Oddy, Check.
Base for the Oddy should have been 44k Hands down. And to be fair the BortasQu' should be 45.5k to match the 2k increase.
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I would be to differ. The Oddy tactical cruiser is more than a match offensively for the other fleet level ships. It can also slot a LtCmdr Tactical AND a Lt Tactical, something that NONE of the other fleet cruisers can do. It is more versatile, and as a result, better for most situations.
It can tank just as well as ANY of the other fleet cruisers, it can dish it out and take it just as hard (and in some cases harder), AND it can do some crazy science TRIBBLE too (depends on where you put your LtCmdr).
The strength of the Odyssey is in it's LtCmdr universal slot. Depending on where you slot that, it can either have lots of offensive capability, lots of tank, or lots of utility. And it should also be noted the C-store Odyssey is already at fleet strength. It has a 1.15 shield mod when the shield mod for most non-fleet cruisers is 1.0. It has 42k base hull when most non-fleet cruisers are at 39k. It has 10 console slots when most non-fleet cruisers are 9 consoles. It basically has built in what most fleet ships come with.
As for lockbox ships being stronger? Um... don't take this the wrong way... but... DUH. They're PAY TO PLAY ships. So you PAY REAL MONEY (in the form of keys). You GAMBLE. The actual chances of getting one are apparently less than 5% in many cases. That means you blow lots of money for PWE to get, and as a result, in the event you do happen to stumble upon one, you will be rewarded. It's that cheeseburger at the end of the tunnel mentality. You blow money on keys and try to open lockboxes in the event you are rewarded.
Defense has diminishing retuns while offense doesnt. A tac console just isnt equal to a eng or sci console when you place a res console or a generator.
I can hull tank on my odyssey better than my fleet avenger. I just can only hull tank better on the fleet assault, fleet advanced heavy and fleet support. Odyssey is already nerfed by mutiple weaknesses. Why make it weaker on the thing that is supposed to be good vs other fleet crusers which are already better vs odyssey in offense
You are comparing apples and oranges. Please do not compare non fleet stat with fleet stat.
I do have spend lots of keys on lockboxes. 100+ per ship that i want. The problem with you is the non sense mentality that you have with flawed logic. Please go away if you are going to just make non constructive non objective criticisms.
I'm going to ignore your ignorance and try this again in simpler terms:
The C-store Odyssey already IS fleet level. I am not "comparing apples and oranges." as you put it.
What do the other fleet ships have that the Odyssey doesn't? Let's go over this carefully.
FACR, Fleet Excel, Fleet Amby all have 10 consoles. The C-store Oddy has 10 consoles.
FACR, Fleet Excel, Fleet Amby all have 12 BOff abilities. The Oddy has 12 BOff abilities.
FACR, Fleet Excel, Fleet Amby all have a higher than 1.0 shield mod (the +10% that ALL FLEET LEVEL SHIPS HAVE). The Oddy has a higher than 1.0 shield mod.
FACR, Fleet Excel, Fleet Amby all have the 10% bonus to their hull from their non fleet versions. That puts them around 43k hp. All the Odysseys START with 42k hull, which puts them at that +10% over non fleet cruisers... which is exactly what fleet versions have.
Now let's see what the Odyssey has that the other cruisers don't:
The Odyssey from the C-store is equivalent to all the other Fleet level cruisers. And in many ways it's better. You seemed to blatantly ignore the part of my post in which I explained how it's BOff diversity makes it so much stronger than any of the others. It is more versatile than ANY other cruiser IN THE WHOLE GAME. There is no other cruiser that can become anything, like the Odyssey can.
The Odyssey can become a damage dealing monster if you slot a LtCmdr Tactical and Lt Tactical. No other fed cruiser can do that. The only other one that comes close is the Avenger. And the KDF Fleet Tor'kaht. Both fleet level ships.
It can tank just as well as the Fleet Galaxy, FACR, and Fleet Excel. Just as well, if not better. It has more utility than the above 3. The only one that has utility equal to it is the Fleet Amby.
You seem to not understand that simple concept of versatility. That's the Odyssey's strength. Yeah, it has 1500 less hp than the others. Yeah it's slower and doesn't turn as well. But you know what? 1500 hp translates to at most 4500 hp after skills and gear. Maybe 5k hp. But that's nothing. It's shields are actually BETTER than most other fleet level cruisers. You can do things with an Odyssey you can't even come CLOSE to doing with the other ships.
But nope. It's weaker. It's TRIBBLE.
Dude... seriously. Open your eyes. Stats aren't everything. I have seen Odysseys that can keep up with Fleet Sovvies and Fleet Excels with damage, and in fact in many cases surpass them. With ease. I can tank better in my Oddy than in ANY of my other ships, INCLUDING my Fleet Sovvy. I can deal damage with it just as well as with my Fleet Sovvy. Using the exact same loadout, exact same gear, exact same BOffs... except of course taking advantage of the universal slots, it does equal if not better than my Fleet Sovvy.
If you ignore the rest of my post (which I get the feeling you will), at least read this part. The Odyssey has two UNIVERSAL BOff slots. That, combined with it's practically equivalent stats (seriously, 5% difference in hull is meaningless), actually make it BETTER than the other cruisers.
yup an aux2bat tac oddy with BFAW and DEM3 can dish out a lot of damage.
on a fun little side note, the oddy can use the fleet hull material so with that it may as well be a full fleet ship
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You don't even need to run an Aux2bat build. You can do insane damage with just EPtX abilities and a good composition of tactical abilities.
in my experiance the tac oddy is the worse to use aux2batt build on.
here is why: if you go single a2b your cooldowns for TT1, BFAW, APbeta will never come down to dublicate cooldown, which would be the primary advantage of a2b.
if you go double a2b, you wasted your ltdcmdr engi slot with a2b, which is normaly occupied by RSP or something other more usefull.
Also you wind up with 5 tac boff slots where at the most only 4 are needed to make a2b cruisers work.
this ship is way better off with 2-3 dmg controle doffs and doubling up on tac abilities (like escorts) 2xTT, 2xAPbeta, 2xBFAW...tac oddy has actaully enough tac boff slots to do that.
that is my personal favourite. either EPtW3 or EPtS3, with DEM3 or aux2sif3...2 engi boffs i switch according to the situation requiring more tank or more boom. (unfortunately the more "boom" boff is pulling double and tribble shifts in STO)
also with the chevron sep console the oddy becomes nimble like a destroyer, making DBB front a really good option.
the only thing i'd wish for were 360 degree turrets.
"only" 3 tac console slots, espaecially with the fleet tac consoles ahead, make it a secondary choice for an offensive cruiser. That doesn't mean it can't reach 10k dps or even more, just that excelsior, sovy, avanger will allways have higher dmg potential...but those lack versatility.
I'd sign that. I got Tac Oddy in this sale, didn't have time for proper setup yet. But I also was considering Regent + upgrade to Fleet version, because it's bad TRIBBLE and I like the Regent design. But eventually I decided for Oddy. It's iconic ship, it has beautiful bridge, Aquarius (I know it's coffin, I don't care), universal seating (I like to try different roles). I don't think Oddy lacks anything.
Only thing where I disagree is that I really hate is chevron separation. Pure idea of this sounds terrible. The hull should be monolithic to be able to sustain punishment and idea of saucer or chevron separation is in contradiction with sturdy cruiser hull. Luckily no one forces me to use it, I didn't take the Eng version, I got Tac and I'm happy.
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Thank you. I made i mistake posting at gameplay
It is less maneuverable so larger hull than the other ships should compensate that weakness. A larger shield modifier and larger hull than other fleet fed should cover one of its roles as a tank. Its roles being resiliency and versatility.
4 tac consoles and better turn rate will always have better dps than the one that has less. The versatility is not in question. It is more versatile than all fed fleet cruisers. The question is now the hull which one of the roles, according to STO web, the odyssey should fill.
Since, like in my previous posts, 2 tac console is already acceptable in the Odyssey as long as it excels in the roles that it covers which are versatility and resiliency.
Retain the rest of the Odyssey stats, change the following:
Hull : 43,000 (42,000 non fleet)
Shield Modifier : 1.2 ( 1.15 non fleet)
Turn rate : 5.5 ( 6 non fleet)
So, since the versatility is already covered due to uni ltcmdr, the question now lies on the defense. With the stats above, The stats of the odyssey is inferior than a Voth Cruiser in hull, equal in shield modifier, but totally inferior in offense, hangar turn rate than the Voth Cruiser. Vs talshiar cruiser, it is inferior in shield modifier but superior in hull. However,it is inferior in dps, turn rate, boff versatility. Overall, Both Voth Cruiser and Tal Shiar Cruisers are each somewhat equal in defense with the Odyssey but both are each still superior than the odyssey as a ship.
With the exception of the Fleet galaxy, now the odyssey is superior than any other fleet fedship when it comes to hull. Only tanking ships like fleet galaxy or any other ship made for tanking are now superior to Odyssey in resiliency. Its turn rate is also inferior than the Fleet galaxy or any fed cruiser. However, Odyssey now excels in the role that it is marketed to do in the STO website - resiliency and versatility without compromising superiority of lockbox ships, or other fleet ships that specced specifically in one of the roles of Odyssey like the Fleet Galaxy(tanking/resiliency).
Two things.
1) Fleet Ambassador has more hull thank 43k.
2) Why do you want to boost it's tanking ability? The Odyssey is already one of the tankiest cruisers in existence. For that matter, fed cruisers in general are stupidly tanky. Even a badly designed cruiser will survive easily against ANY NPC in the game. I can sit with standard issue gear in a non fleet cruiser and tank a tac cube in ISE and KASE easily. And I mean EASILY.
Which leaves me wondering, why would you sacrifice turn rate for a smidgeon more hull (which really doesn't matter because 1k hull means almost nothing after skills are applied)? And why do you want to boost it's ability to soak up damage? The Odyssey already can take insane amounts of damage and walk away smiling.
I'll tell you right now, with the stats you proposed, nobody would ever use that fleet version. At least nobody with half a brain on the actual potential of cruisers.
Though I do wonder why a bigger ship than the Galaxy has a lower hull... it is a bigger ship. Maybe internal volume...
I'd suggest the stupid...I mean...the wonderful split neck. (I still wish we had an option not to use it) It has the neck that supposedly to help with slipstream drive, but perhaps a side effect is lower hull strength than it would have otherwise.
Okay man, I really don't want to come accross as harsh, but I am getting sick of people making this same mistake over and over again...
THERE WILL BE NO FLEET ODYSSEY CLASS.
Period. Done. End of story.
The Odyssey-class is already fleet level w/ a fleet skin included in its purchase. The EXACT same thing goes for the Vesta, Kumari, Scimitar, and Bortas.
End rant, carry on.
Apparently you dont know what you are talking about, sorry Odyssey has a fleet version.
1) Well if you make it 44,000 hull it would be at par with Fleet Galaxy which is the sole purpose is tanking. It should not better than ships intended only to tank. But the hull should be better than those ships not intended to tank.
2) The fleet version of odyssey has the same stats in hull and shield modifier as odyssey cstore with the only difference being the lt cmdr universal boff.
The question is not Odyssey's capability to hull tank, but odyssey is inferior to ships not intended to tank.
Wow. Just... wow.
First of all, the Odyssey STAR CRUISER (note: it doesn't say FLEET anywhere there) has the exact same BOff layout as the C-store Odysseys. The ONLY difference is one console.
Secondly... it's a cruiser. Now here's the important part I feel you should know:
All cruisers are meant to tank.
Every cruiser from the Tier II Connie all the way to the Tier V Assault Cruiser/Star Cruiser and all fleet cruisers are meant to tank. Cruisers are tanks. Therefore... a ship designed to tank... is meant to tank. So it seems to me your argument has now been completely nullified.
For your info, it doesnt have the exact boff layout as the cstore info. I do not know where you got your information.
Ok so you want the more dps inclined cruiser to have better hull than odyssey and galaxy.
Please give reasonable suggestions on what you want rather whinning here.
Yes, the Odyssey Star Cruiser is available from the fleet store, but for credits only (most people got it for free in 2011), and with only 9 consoles, falls in line with the other non-module fleet ships. Perhaps there could be a module version, but I dont see the point with the existence of the C-Store trio.
The Odyssey Star Cruiser has almost the same boff layout as the C-Store versions, just the Ensign Uni is downgraded to an Ensign Sci.
Whining? Your spelling had me seeing "winning". And I am not "whining" as you would put it. I am presenting information in a way that doesn't agree with yours and you don't like it.
As for the BOff layout? Ok, you got me there. But honestly, I don't know why you wouldn't put that ensign to Sci to begin with anyways.
And I think we went over this before, but here it is again.
And for the record, the Fleet Galaxy has the highest hull out of any currently existing Fed Cruiser. Check it out for yourself.
And as for the more DPS inclined cruisers to have more HP? *sigh*... Let's look at this again...
Odyssey: 42000
Fleet Excel: 42900
Fleet Assault: 42900
Fleet Ambassador: 43450
At most that's a 1450 hp deficit. At the most you can gain ~40% hull with items, and then maybe another 30% if you use the jevonite hardpoints. That's 70% hull. Which means... that 1450 will become AT MOST 2500 hp. That's 2500 hp difference in final hull. That's less than nothing. And guess what? Those other ships are not as versatile. So you can't say they're DPS centric. The Amby certainly isn't. The Fleet Excel is just clunky in general with it's BOff layout. The only really DPS centric cruiser is the FACR. Which is why it's called the ASSAULT Cruiser.
You want another reason why the Odyssey APPEARS weaker? Look at release dates. Ok. Odyssey Star Cruiser (NOT FLEET) was released almost two years ago. Got that? Good. The Fleet Excelsior and Fleet Assault Cruiser and Fleet Ambassador WERE RELEASED AFTER.
This is an MMO. That means power-creep. Practically every release will be better than the previous ones (with a few exceptions to the rule... IE the Ar'kif, and a few others).
The Odyssey is fine. In fact, it's better than fine. It does more than any of the other cruisers are capable of. It's more versatile. It tanks just fine. It deals damage just fine (and in many cases better than even those "DPS-centric cruisers"). The only thing it doesn't do well is move around, but that's tolerable considering its other capabilities.
A Fleet Dreadnaught Galaxy WILL happen. It will take time, but it WILL happen.
The Odyssey IS ALREADY FLEET STRENGTH. They will NOT release a fleet version. They will NOT update/upgrade it. A well built Odyssey can more than easily keep up if not downright surpass any existing fed cruiser in damage output and tanking ability. It will laughably easily surpass them in utility. You don't seem to get it, but the Odyssey can do everything possible for a cruiser, and more.
Now stop being close minded and actually look at the FACTS people are giving you.
Oookay, I'm surprised no one has addressed this yet...
What fleet version? Can you present graphic evidence to back this up? I'm also not impressed with your rudeness.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
actually the one you're talking about is NOT a fleet version. That's the EXACT same ship I got for free during the 2 year anniversary. Just like the "fleet" ambassador is the same exact ship many got for the 3 year anniversary.
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Actually there is a Fleet Amby. There is also a level 50 Amby. The level 50 Amby is there for those who participated during the event, but the Fleet Amby is still a fleet level ship.
Level 30 Amby
Level 50 Amby
Fleet Amby
OP seems to think that this ship is the Fleet Odyssey. I don't know why.