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Federation Security = Brown Shirts! or Red?

tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
The original Star Trek had Red Shirts... thou Scotty who was Chief Engineer had a red shirt too.

In the Next Gen... Security is clearly brown. When did we switch back to Red? Also in the Sphere of Influence... Before exploring the new location with Worf your asked to speak to a Federation brownshirt... who is described as both Engineering and Security in the text and pop up window :)

You would think that Security would be a part of the Operations of a ship.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,009 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Brown shirts? In TNG, Operations (including security) is dubbed as "gold". Though colours are a very subjective thing, but I never considered it to be brown :D

    Regarding STO: Wel, it's obvious that this game doesn't care at all what the NPCs are wearing or supposed to be. You'll see a crazy variety of random fugly uniforms on NPC Starfleet personnel and half the time the colours don't even match their supposed department. Just deal with it, these are those "unnenecessary details" the devs won't waste their time with ;) STO has, for some reason, decided to make security guys and gals redshirts again since they were unable to differentiate between tactical and operations (meaning a tactical officer and a security officer is not the same thing). But obviously that mindset is not with everyone designing the missions/maps as I ave seen plenty of gold "security" guys all over the game (most of them in old "random" missions that aren't in the game anymore. There was one mission where you were to arrest some spy/saboteur on a starbase, the security teams you beamed in to apprehend the suspect were goldshirts as well)
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,672 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    Actually... TNG security wore gold.
    Tasha Yar and Worf both wore gold uniforms when they were in charge of Security. And Geordi also wore gold as Chief Engineer.

    And in regards to Scotty wearing red... that color was also used to denote Engineering Department in TOS. Although I think Uhura might count as Operations even though she also wore red.
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  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I tend to believe that it's not so much laziness as allowing you to play a commanding officer of another division without having you bound to wearing Command red. Stripping the red department of its Command division sort of required something else to expand it beyond Tactical, so they welded Security onto it, since it was the most like Tactical.

    That being said, my Security-focused officers get recolored to gold/mustard, and my characters wear red after the tutorial, as they're Command division from then on.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited December 2013
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Star Trek has never been particularly good at internal consistency of details, no matter if you're talking about uniforms and rank insignias or about how many decks a ship has. (Star Trek: First Contact said the Enterprise had 24 decks, then a few scenes later the Borg are reported breaking through a barricade on deck 27. :D)

    TOS had no particular pattern anywhere, and in movies 2-6 gave up on different uniform colors by specialization completely.

    TNG uses red for command and tactical, gold for security, ops, and engineering, and blue for science and medical.

    STO switches security to red (it doesn't just include security officers, i.e. military policemen, but also things like assault squad officers, i.e. space marines) and seems to remove command as a color category altogether.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Red shirts actually make more sense for Security since it makes it easier for the people Security is protecting to not notice how injured they actually are so they are less likely to freak out. Of course, that only applies to Security with red blood.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    TOS had no particular pattern anywhere, and in movies 2-6 gave up on different uniform colors by specialization completely.

    TOS had a pattern. Command, conn and tactical were gold, science and medical blue and engineering, operations and security red. And in Wrath of Khan to Undiscovered country the deparment colour was on the undershirt, shoulder and arm stripes. (Even though lieutenant Valeris used a cadet undershirt.)
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  • captrott1captrott1 Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The Original Series/Enterprise
    Command - Gold
    Science/Medical - Blue
    Engineering/Security - Red

    TNG-forward
    Command - Red
    Science/Medical - Blue
    Engineering/Security - Gold


    It was a reversal between those two divisions. I am sure you can think of some bureaucratic reason to have done so.

    There was never any brown uniform.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    Red shirts actually make more sense for Security since it makes it easier for the people Security is protecting to not notice how injured they actually are so they are less likely to freak out. Of course, that only applies to Security with red blood.

    Therefore, Fed security should be red shirts with brown pants! :D
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    TOS had a pattern. Command, conn and tactical were gold, science and medical blue and engineering, operations and security red. And in Wrath of Khan to Undiscovered country the deparment colour was on the undershirt, shoulder and arm stripes. (Even though lieutenant Valeris used a cadet undershirt.)

    Ok, you noticed something I didn't. I bow to your superior expertise.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Therefore, Fed security should be red shirts with brown pants! :D

    They tried it, but somehow the people being protected knew something was wrong. Could hide the color, but not the stench. They decided to go with the standard color since if Security did such a thing, then that meant to get away as fast as possible.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Gold Brown... subjective... it clearly wasnt red thou. And yeah I guess you could call it gold thou more mustardy. What about Green? I recall Kirk in Green at times.

    What happened to White for formals? Well thinking Navy...
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wells since you can make your outfit a technicolor dreamcoat, the point is a tad moot isn't it?

    Besides if some whiny forum kid gets me locked into specific colors for specific crew i shall be outraged.

    My crew wears all black, aside from my medical which wears whites and pastels
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  • picapica74picapica74 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Check this page out for uniform details.

    http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/uniforms.htm
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,009 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wells since you can make your outfit a technicolor dreamcoat, the point is a tad moot isn't it?

    Besides if some whiny forum kid gets me locked into specific colors for specific crew i shall be outraged.

    My crew wears all black, aside from my medical which wears whites and pastels

    Excuse me, but what is it with people getting so upset/aggressive about other people on the forum just asking/discussing such topics? I don't mean you in particular, though in virtually every topic on the forums regarding some "canon" theory crafting or just interest someone comes in proclaiming that nobody shall dare to take his or her rights away. This seems to be such a deep rooted fear with some people, it's highly fascinating.

    I'm sure that you are not the "right" person to adress, though there is a lot less irony in a lot of other folks' posts around here :D
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wells since you can make your outfit a technicolor dreamcoat, the point is a tad moot isn't it?

    Besides if some whiny forum kid gets me locked into specific colors for specific crew i shall be outraged.

    My crew wears all black, aside from my medical which wears whites and pastels

    *dope-slaps capnshadow* Way to miss the freaking point. Not once did anyone in this thread mention restricting uniform choice. The OP was just trying to figure out why the "official" uniform colors changed between TNG and STO.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wells since you can make your outfit a technicolor dreamcoat, the point is a tad moot isn't it?

    Besides if some whiny forum kid gets me locked into specific colors for specific crew i shall be outraged.

    My crew wears all black, aside from my medical which wears whites and pastels

    So since one thing can be done, it should be done and because another thing can be done just as well it shouldn't?

    Why is it okay when you put your crew in black and pastels and "moot" when other people want their own crew to look like somehting else?
    In what way does it limit your options and your gameplay?
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