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Warp Revision Suggestions to Cryptic

sanatobasanatoba Member Posts: 143 Arc User
This post is to show off a document I've been working on to use to propose to Cryptic some revisions I think need to be done to the warp drive system in STO. Now I understand Cryptic may not follow my suggestions. And I am by no need insisting they do. I just think these revisions would make the game feel even more like Trek. Now this document is not finished yet, but I have been taking so long to get it finished, I've been worried I'd never get it posted. Plus I wanted feed back from players and Cryptic employees on whether these are good suggestions for STO or not. Plus I was curious to see if anyone at Cryptic was already thinking along these lines. I've been doing lots of research and I just want to see if it has been worth something or whether it is for naught. I will upload updated versions of this document every so often until I get it finished, unless Cryptic tells me it IS for naught. Please everyone, tell me what you think of my work. Thanks.

And by the way, it IS very long. Sorry but wanted to be thorough. And I am open to suggestions on addition changes to it that anyone might suggest.

Here is the link to the unfinished document: here.:cool::D

STO copyright by Cryptic, Star Trek by CBS and Paramount. I make no claims to any of it. And any of my ideas that are in this document are free for Cryptic and CBS/Paramount to use if they wish.

Please everyone, I really want to know what everyone thinks. I realize it is unfinished and still needs a lot of work, but I hope it gives you a good idea of what I'm talking about. Especially people from Cryptic.
Post edited by Unknown User on
Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!

"Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
"Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
"To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
"To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
"Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!

Comments

  • sanatobasanatoba Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    (... unnecessary reply...added to main post...)
    Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!

    "Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
    "Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
    "To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
    "To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
    Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    17 minutes? Seriously?
    You waited 17 minutes after opening a new thread with such a complicated proposal for a response until you posted again?
    Patience is obviously not your strong point.
    I haven't even had time to properly read and digest your idea to give a qualified response beyond "yes", "no", "stupid" :confused:

    *EDIT: I should clarifiy, I don't think your idea is stupid but beyond a one-word resonse what you propose needs time to take a serious look and I'm sure that's what you want :) *
  • eulifdaviseulifdavis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Having only glanced at it, and not actually read to much detail at all, I find your proposal unnecessary, complicated, and lacking in any meaningful gameplay improvements.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    Having only glanced at it, and not actually read to much detail at all, I find your proposal unnecessary, complicated, and lacking in any meaningful gameplay improvements.

    I skimmed the proposal, it is too complicated and is just too much time and effort to build up a warp engine.

    No, just no.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • radagast75radagast75 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Seems quite fun actually but since these days, games should be simple and fast paced, i doubt that anyone has patience to do that stuff.

    I fear this game and you are 10 years late :(
    Captain Hunt, at your service!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sanatobasanatoba Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Hey, guys, I simply added to my original post because I thought something wasn't clear enough. I posted late at night and wasn't sure I had made it clear. As for how long it is, I realize it is a problem, but I felt I needed to be thorough. And as for how complicated my solution is, it is just one possible solution. I just simply settled on this one because I liked it. But I also realize STO is fine without it. I just wanted to see if I could come up with an idea to make the game better. Whether or not this solution is better, well that is up to all of you and Cryptic. If you have some good ideas on how to make this better, I'm all ears. Please don't attack me on this. I'm not insisting that Cryptic make this change (like some players do and then threaten to leave). I'm just trying to see if I can't find a good suggestion on how to make the game even better. Is that so wrong?
    Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!

    "Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
    "Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
    "To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
    "To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
    Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here's the problem:

    You've neither identified a game-related issue (being "lore-light" isn't a gameplay problem), nor have you laid out in any way how your proposal is an improvement to fix said gameplay issue.

    There are already a hilarious number of moving parts to STO's space mechanics. Arbitrarily doubling or tripling that (if for example your little tangent on shields and armor were to happen) for no reason other than "STO isn't Trek enough" flat out isn't going to happen.
  • sanatobasanatoba Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I realize these changes like this aren't likely to happen. I just want the gears to start going to see if a better solution can't be found to separate the influence of the specialty impulse engines on the warp drive and propose a possible solution to make their warp drive setup more Trek technologically correct, whether that solution is possible or not. It is designed to get people thinking......but I didn't want to mention this in the main post, after all, I wanted people to read it first.
    Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!

    "Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
    "Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
    "To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
    "To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
    Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
  • krio09krio09 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sanatoba wrote: »
    This post is to show off a document I've been working on to use to propose to Cryptic some revisions I think need to be done to the warp drive system in STO. Now I understand Cryptic may not follow my suggestions. And I am by no need insisting they do. I just think these revisions would make the game feel even more like Trek. Now this document is not finished yet, but I have been taking so long to get it finished, I've been worried I'd never get it posted. Plus I wanted feed back from players and Cryptic employees on whether these are good suggestions for STO or not. Plus I was curious to see if anyone at Cryptic was already thinking along these lines. I've been doing lots of research and I just want to see if it has been worth something or whether it is for naught. I will upload updated versions of this document every so often until I get it finished, unless Cryptic tells me it IS for naught. Please everyone, tell me what you think of my work. Thanks.

    And by the way, it IS very long. Sorry but wanted to be thorough. And I am open to suggestions on addition changes to it that anyone might suggest.

    Here is the link to the unfinished document: here.:cool::D

    STO copyright by Cryptic, Star Trek by CBS and Paramount. I make no claims to any of it. And any of my ideas that are in this document are free for Cryptic and CBS/Paramount to use if they wish.

    Please everyone, I really want to know what everyone thinks. I realize it is unfinished and still needs a lot of work, but I hope it gives you a good idea of what I'm talking about. Especially people from Cryptic.

    It is an interesting proposal, however I think it would be complicated to implement. I have thought a few times that hull should be up with the shields, and that impulse and warp powers should be separate. however I think cryptic need to consider a gameplay balance, I don't think that they just throw this stuff together you know.. I imagine the design process to be quite long and drawn out, so as to get a great trek 'lore' feel, but also be able to implement their ideas in a justifiable and practical way.

    I am sure you are not alone in wanting the game to be 'just like trek' however, this is cryptics take on the franchise and I think they've done a great job hitting the most important aspects of it. I would back you fully in this, however I do not think it is feasible.
  • krio09krio09 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here's the problem:

    You've neither identified a game-related issue (being "lore-light" isn't a gameplay problem), nor have you laid out in any way how your proposal is an improvement to fix said gameplay issue.

    There are already a hilarious number of moving parts to STO's space mechanics. Arbitrarily doubling or tripling that (if for example your little tangent on shields and armor were to happen) for no reason other than "STO isn't Trek enough" flat out isn't going to happen.

    agreed agreed
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    @ OP,

    I dont want to sound mean, but your suggestion paper is kinda long winded.


    The only thing i will address is your statement "why dont cardassians, tholians and dominions have their own special core". Think about how much of a pain it would be for the devs to have to design a warp core for every ship type. Tholians with their own core, Romulans with singularity core, KDF with their Targ on a treadmill core, Dominion with their own core, Cardassians with their copy of a Bajoran core and so on and so forth. Are you going to have rep vendors and quest rewards have a list of 10 different types of cores? It's like designing a armor kit for in game that has XXL, XL, L, M, SM, XS, XXS sizes just because the same kit that wont fit a gorn giant would never fit a skinny orion female.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I thought this thread was about the warp in and out animation. I was so wrong....lol
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here's the problem:

    You've neither identified a game-related issue (being "lore-light" isn't a gameplay problem), nor have you laid out in any way how your proposal is an improvement to fix said gameplay issue.

    There are already a hilarious number of moving parts to STO's space mechanics. Arbitrarily doubling or tripling that (if for example your little tangent on shields and armor were to happen) for no reason other than "STO isn't Trek enough" flat out isn't going to happen.

    This, with emphasis. Nothing in the entire (incredibly, overly long-winded given its real total content) proposal does anything significant beyond adding needless complexity for its own sake.

    If, as you say, "[You're] just trying to see if [you] can't find a good suggestion on how to make the game even better" then the first step should be to think "simpler, not more spreadsheet." And that alone means...just scrap this idea now. Seriously.
  • kaaskrulkaaskrul Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    some of this is good but i only looked through it and also and i say this "dont say because its not trek enough" the game is fine as it is i would like we can add more weopon slots and shields,engeins to our ships that i think should be in it other than that nothing is good
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    This, with emphasis. Nothing in the entire (incredibly, overly long-winded given its real total content) proposal does anything significant beyond adding needless complexity for its own sake.

    If, as you say, "[You're] just trying to see if [you] can't find a good suggestion on how to make the game even better" then the first step should be to think "simpler, not more spreadsheet." And that alone means...just scrap this idea now. Seriously.

    And speaking of adding complexity...

    Why add complexity to just the warp core?

    what about the weapon systems?

    what about the shield systems?

    what about the deflector systems?

    what about the console and device systems?

    It doesnt make sense to make one system overly complex while leaving the others simplified. But it also doesnt make sense to make any system overly complicated just for the sake of making it complicated or 'because of lore' reasons.
  • endorfinatorendorfinator Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think some of the things could be added as set bonuses, if cryptic releases more sets with special warp cores. I think the main armor idea is fun but it would mess with the existing consoles(or you could change them to hull hardpoints). I think something like Tholian crystalline armor would be fun to have. I think that is how for it should go if at all.
  • sanatobasanatoba Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Finally, some others posting that aren't just shooting me down without giving me any constructive feedback. I realize this setup is overly complicated. That is a problem with it I've had myself about this project. I want to make the proposal more simplified. But I wasn't sure which way to go. There are so many ideas I've packed into this one document. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to simplify this but still have a revision idea to present to Cryptic (whether they like it or ignore it)? I think presenting good suggestions to Cryptic is an excellent way to help them come up with new ideas and make the game better.

    And for those talking about how I don't understand how complex this is or would be, actually, I do. I've been studying computer engineering and game development in college. I actually really do understand how complex these suggestions would be. But look at the changes that have already been made to the game. Many of them are complex too. But I would like some ideas on how to still make this proposal simpler.

    I do admit I love the game just the way it is. But I still think it could be better and want to help (engineering mindset, things may be good, but they can always be even better). I'm just struggling to get my ideas into a good simplified format to propose them. That is why I posted this here to get constructive feedback. Thanks.
    Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!

    "Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
    "Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
    "To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
    "To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
    Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    @ OP,

    The thing is this isnt a game like EVE online where you need to have that complexity with ship parts. STO gearing mechanics has more in common with games like WoW, or some of the older D&D type games. You have a slot for shoulderpads, a cape and a chestpiece. The gear that goes in those slots has stats like agility, strength, health, +damage to magic, etc. It's the same concept in STO except you are dealing with ships and stats that relate to ships. It's a much more simplified system then what you have planned out.

    ALSO a big thing that i noticed about your suggestion is the redundancy. Does there really need to be a core for every ship type? Cardassian ships, Dominion ships, Fed, KDF, Romulan, Tholian, Voth, etc. Do you have any idea how much gear bloat that would introduce? And they cant make each core have the same type of stats or effects, because what would be the point? so they would have to make them each unique like singularities and warp cores are now. But how many new and interesting mechanics can you introduce for each core type without copying another?

    And i'll mention what i did in my previous post again too. What's the point of adding complexity to the warp core system when all the others remain relatively simplified? I dunno...thats like wearing flip flops, cut off shorts, a worn tank-top and a tuxedo coat.

    EDIT: also this might not make a bit of difference. But IMO, it is best to make suggestions that fit within current game mechanics. You mentioned taking college classes for game development and computer classes. Thats fine BUT you are still just a player. You dont know what the game engine is capable of or what its limitatations are. The devs do know this...that's why they can make features in the game that we would think not possible. So lets take a step back and have a look...we know that they can add slots to the ships 'paper doll'. They added warp cores and sing cores right? so why not ask them to add armor slots which is what i think you mentioned in your proposal? add a new slot that can be fitted with energy or kinetic resistance modules. In addition to that you can propose new engineering consoles to fill the vacuum left by the removal of resistance consoles.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sanatoba wrote: »
    Finally, some others posting that aren't just shooting me down without giving me any constructive feedback. I realize this setup is overly complicated. That is a problem with it I've had myself about this project. I want to make the proposal more simplified. But I wasn't sure which way to go. There are so many ideas I've packed into this one document. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to simplify this but still have a revision idea to present to Cryptic (whether they like it or ignore it)? I think presenting good suggestions to Cryptic is an excellent way to help them come up with new ideas and make the game better.

    Again, we come back to the singular issue preventing any kind of movement on this: you have yet to settle on just what it is you're trying to solve. Unless and until you can coherently describe what gameplay mechanics related goal you're trying to reach there's no way anyone can guide you.

    When you can concisely lay out exactly what you're trying to accomplish I'll be more than happy to pitch in my two cents. Until then, all you've got is a design document on how to needlessly complicate STO's already clunky space mechanics.
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