Why? Seriously. I have a hard time understanding what I perceive to be players approaching this game as though it were a task, for which they should be rewarded, when those rewards do not exist outside of the game.
This. I believe the whole thing would be a waste of developer resources, but asking for better rewards than the current elite mode will just cause a bigger mess as several people already pointed out in this thread.
I actually have confidence that if Al were to put it out he would stick to his guns.
For approximately the five minutes it would take for his superiors at Cryptic/PWE to overrule and slap him down. :rolleyes:
Bad but avid ESTF'ers are, in all likelihood, a much bigger segment of the player base than good ESTF'ers, meaning Cryptic can afford to p!$$ off the latter a helluva lot more than the former*. So, iconians' prediction for NSTFs seems pretty much spot-on to me.
* See also casual/IP-agnostic gamers vs. diehard Star Trek fans who take the IP seriously; here, again, Cryptic has repeatedly sided with the former, much larger segment over the latter, resulting in such things as, well, dinosaurs with laser beams on their heads running around a Dyson Sphere. :P
To be honest, I'd probably never play nightmare mode. What I want is new content that's more challenging than the old content. Going back and making things that I've already done thousands of times harder does nothing for me. They can go and give the mobs insane HP, super beefy weapons, and unavoidable one shot kills all they want. It's still the same thing I've been running over and over for years now. Do not want.
I tend to agree. I may not agree with some of his decisions but he's never been one to mince words.
That said, this is how Nightmare mode will go for STO based on established history with this kind of thing.
Step 1: Devs create Nightmare mode STFs. Intentionally difficult and challenging, it's made for the best players to complete. No greenhorns are expected to survive this.
Step 2: Devs create rewards to match the challenge. A "Gold plated carrot on a stick" is introduced in STO that acts as a badge of honor to prove to the rest of STO that they have regularly done STFs on Nightmare mode.
Step 3: Bad players complain that they can't complete the Nightmare mode STFs with a pug. Bad players complain they work 3 jobs, have a sick wife, take care of their parents in a nursing home, and coach little league baseball for crippled orphans and demand that the Nightmare mode STFs be easier and quicker to accomplish so that they too can have the gold-plated carrot on a stick.
Step 4: Devs say tough luck. These are made for really good players who have a keen insight to strategy and tactics, and these Nightmare-mode STFs are made to be intentionally challenging, and the rewards simply reflect the challenge.
Step 5: Bad players say they're being discriminated against, that they pay money too, that they play STO all the time and just because they're lazy or dumb doesn't mean they don't have the right to be in the same bracket of top notch players as the people who put forth an effort into Nightmare mode STFs.
Step 6: Cryptic grows a conscience and wants the furor to die down. They water down the Nightmare-mode STFs to appease the lowest common denominator.
Step 7: Al Rivera has another interview where he's asked if Cryptic plans to make any challenging content since the current content isn't all that challenging.
Step 8: See Step 1.
I've disagreed with you quite a bit but this is spot on with what's going to happen if "Nightmare" actually happens, a.k.a. Hard mode in any other game.
The last example is "Defense of New Romulus" from the RRW campaign with LOR's release. It was the only spot in the entire game, in an era where conflict is everywhere, that it actually felt like a desperate battle. Ships going left and right, the Elachi are pouring in. Their ships are tying you down while a few set up their Elachi Barrages (pre-nerf to PVE versions; they actually hurted alot before). The friendly ships didn't spam cloaked tractor mines to keep the entire Elachi fleet in place. In short, there were no crutches for the player to lean on. You actually needed some sort of clue to survive. When the mission was done, it was satisfying. It FELT like it was a battle.
Then people complained that it was too hard; They can't faceroll it. They can't be bothered to use something like Emergency Power to Shields or some sort of Shield or Hull repairs. They can't be bothered with MOVING their ship out of deadly crossfires. They can't be bothered to MOVE out of the way of a pending Elachi Barrage. They just couldn't be bothered to fight. So they call for easy mission changes, and Cryptic obliges.
Now we have the joke that we currently have for "Defense of New Romulus." You literally have to do nothing if you wanted. You COULD choose to shoot at something, but really, your friendly NPCs can do the work. The Elachi are helpless as a boatload of them are caught in Tractor Mines. They try to set up Elachi Barrages (sometimes) but are destroyed very quickly before it goes off. Even if it DOES go off, it literally tickles your shields barely now.
A travesty.
It no longer felt like a battle. You could just cloak and sleep through it.
That's what would happen if more difficult settings would happen with better rewards.
Keybind: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9355971&postcount=463
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
To be honest, I'd probably never play nightmare mode. What I want is new content that's more challenging than the old content. Going back and making things that I've already done thousands of times harder does nothing for me. They can go and give the mobs insane HP, super beefy weapons, and unavoidable one shot kills all they want. It's still the same thing I've been running over and over for years now. Do not want.
And in the future you will be saying the same thing for the newer content. It's unavoidable.
I've disagreed with you quite a bit but this is spot on with what's going to happen if "Nightmare" actually happens, a.k.a. Hard mode in any other game.
The last example is "Defense of New Romulus" from the RRW campaign with LOR's release. It was the only spot in the entire game, in an era where conflict is everywhere, that it actually felt like a desperate battle. Ships going left and right, the Elachi are pouring in. Their ships are tying you down while a few set up their Elachi Barrages (pre-nerf to PVE versions; they actually hurted alot before). The friendly ships didn't spam cloaked tractor mines to keep the entire Elachi fleet in place. In short, there were no crutches for the player to lean on. You actually needed some sort of clue to survive. When the mission was done, it was satisfying. It FELT like it was a battle.
Then people complained that it was too hard; They can't faceroll it. They can't be bothered to use something like Emergency Power to Shields or some sort of Shield or Hull repairs. They can't be bothered with MOVING their ship out of deadly crossfires. They can't be bothered to MOVE out of the way of a pending Elachi Barrage. They just couldn't be bothered to fight. So they call for easy mission changes, and Cryptic obliges.
Now we have the joke that we currently have for "Defense of New Romulus." You literally have to do nothing if you wanted. You COULD choose to shoot at something, but really, your friendly NPCs can do the work. The Elachi are helpless as a boatload of them are caught in Tractor Mines. They try to set up Elachi Barrages (sometimes) but are destroyed very quickly before it goes off. Even if it DOES go off, it literally tickles your shields barely now.
A travesty.
It no longer felt like a battle. You could just cloak and sleep through it.
That's what would happen if more difficult settings would happen with better rewards.
I don't think the nerf of defense of New Romulus is a fair example - people were approx level 25 with New and unfamiliar ships and powers - you can't compare that to a lvl 50 captain in a fleet ship with all fleet gear and T5 in all rep powers. There is really no comparison - it is not end game content. There were also thousands of brand new players who had only a few hours on the game by that point which we getting killed 20 times - that is not fun and does not help keep them going. Needing it given it being a level 25 mission was the right business decision.
The idea of nightmare mode is just for the people who have maxed there gear/rep/ships to have an extra challenge - no one will be forced to do it.
!
He also mentioned an upcoming featured episode 'series' is being developed - I hope that is true and he just did not -misuse the word 'series' because a New 4 or 5 part story arc series that a new episode is released every 2 week's for a few months would really win back a lot of players. I always waited with great joy for the next episode to be released - they need to get back to that set-up like the 2800. Sure it's a lot of work for them but I think the player satisfaction and happiness of a new series would take tremendous amounts of many players boredom with the state of the game away - at least for many months.
Having a Borg ship insta-pop you with her Lance, upon spawning, certainly qualifies as 'nightmare.' Doesn't make for a very good mission, though. Same can be said about CCE. Personally, while I love a good challenge, just cranking up the Borg/Voth/whatever DPS isn't an improvement per se.
Having a Borg ship insta-pop you with her Lance, upon spawning, certainly qualifies as 'nightmare.' Doesn't make for a very good mission, though. Same can be said about CCE. Personally, while I love a good challenge, just cranking up the Borg/Voth/whatever DPS isn't an improvement per se.
then its your choice to adapt or finally realize the elitists have been trumped for once.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There was a stok'd radio episode today with Al 'captain Gecko' Rivera that was quite interesting.
First let me say that Al is my favorite Dev - a lot of people don't seem to like him for some reason but I love the fact that he just says what he wants or plans and does not try to bull**** people like a politician telling you just what you want to hear. So in that regard I always love listening to him over many others.
Several people asked for a 3rd tier difficulty level for existing Borg stfs - and he said that he will look into making a 'nightmare' difficulty level - maybe ultra elite would sound better.
So what do people think? Has the elite stfs - hive excluded - gotten so easy that you want a 'nightmare' difficulty setting?
Obviously people would need to team up with fleetmates or through a elite channel as pugging it would be a frustrating failure in most cases.
P.S. AL - I still think you have done a great job with STO and season 8, however, you are going to have to make some changes to the New zone in my opinion - wink - as you say we all have one - so here is mine:
There needs to be an easier more direct way to get to the contested zone - maybe a direct transwarp? It's kind of clunky going through the allied zone if you just want to get to the ground battlezone.
The zone cap really should be raised to say 25 as there are too many people just standing around doing nothing - mostly I find this happening after a zone has been captured some players go for a break - the zone rests and some new people come in to fill those that have left or hopped zones and you are often down to just 3 or 4 players trying in vain to capture a zone.
And last - in the 2 city sections there needs to be many more ramps connecting the different areas - the amount of running around is double that of the park zone which is more connected. I don't know if it possible but if a section is captured players should be allowed a site to site beam back to the central hub. Pretty much anything that cuts down on the running around would be a big help.
P.p.s. Please keep this thread civil and polite - constructive criticism/feedback is always good - but flaming or complaints please make your own thread.
Don't forget he regarded the statement and said want I really want is to bring back the OLD STF the 3 our version off it would fit better in the future plans for STO.
And I really hope they do that because there was teamwork in place NO TEAM NO Prize I like it...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
(First, I'm going to say that I probably wouldn't play nightmare mode. Nonetheless, I have opinions.)
I really dislike the idea of taking the current stfs and cranking them up a couple of notches to nightmare. I think that it'll either be 2 shots- you're dead, or once you develop a strategy, you're on autopilot. (Something like nws, where you get marks at the end based on how well you did, even though you're expected to lose would be nice.) It'd also be nice to see something that didn't focus on pure spike DPS.
Until it happens anything the dev's say is PURE speculation e.g PvP overhaul BUWHAHAHAHA. Their idea of nightmare difficulty hmmmm give the enemies a few extra hit points !
This could be done but the most important part are the rewards.
If the reward is desirable to the casual player base it will cause problems. If the reward is simply more marks and/or titles and such (like NWS) then it will be fine.
Sure your 'hardcore raider' crowd won't bother with it but nothing in STO is designed to appeal for them so no big loss.
Secondly though, the voth difficult? Seriously? I found the pre-nerf Tholians to be much more annoying er difficult than the voth are. Now granted your standard builds may not be as effective but they have a set bag of tricks that can easily be learned and countered with little effort. They are not more difficult than the borg, just better at stalling their inevitable explosion.
Totally in favor of this. I want something super hard that has super rewards. Something not everybody will be able to beat and something you don't beat on the first time around.
Also the rewards should be equal to the challenge. The Hive Onslaught is crazy hard but I don't bother because the rewards are lacking for the effort required.
Quote "if such ultimate stfs existed, what kind of death penalty would you be expecting? 5 minutes?"
Personally i'd like to see no penalty, instead I would not let players respawn after a death. What rewards would a player that died receive? It's a tough one maybe just a small amount of dil for effort (100 Dil).
Don't forget he regarded the statement and said want I really want is to bring back the OLD STF the 3 our version off it would fit better in the future plans for STO.
And I really hope they do that because there was teamwork in place NO TEAM NO Prize I like it...
Heck, most of the time Im not even on the game for three hours at a time.
Nightmare mode == invisi-torpedoes of doom get 100% hull penetration.
Enjoy the respawn-fest "elite" players.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
(First, I'm going to say that I probably wouldn't play nightmare mode. Nonetheless, I have opinions.)
I really dislike the idea of taking the current stfs and cranking them up a couple of notches to nightmare.
Great. Don't play them. Continue playing the "Elite" levels.
I think that it'll either be 2 shots- you're dead, or once you develop a strategy, you're on autopilot.
That's a valid concern. Adding some type of randomization to the event would help solve that. Players should know going in that their chances of success are not good, so not every aspect of the event would need to be balanced.
(Something like nws, where you get marks at the end based on how well you did, even though you're expected to lose would be nice.) It'd also be nice to see something that didn't focus on pure spike DPS.
A minimal amount (5 or less), but sure... something for the attempt.
This could be done but the most important part are the rewards.
No. The Rewards are not the most important part. The challenging gameplay is the most important part. In-fact... Ultra-Elite should have a lower reward than Normal.
Quote "if such ultimate stfs existed, what kind of death penalty would you be expecting? 5 minutes?"
Personally i'd like to see no penalty, instead I would not let players respawn after a death. What rewards would a player that died receive? It's a tough one maybe just a small amount of dil for effort (100 Dil).
Here's an idea... Don't die. Make survival a secondary win condition. Die and you get nothing. Give the Engineers a reason to play.
Seriously, I really hate the zerg-rush-respawn aspect of this game.
The nightmare is already here its called season 8 dinosaurs with freakin lasers on their heads and the current Dev team lead !
LMAO. +1 to you!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have mixed feelings on this one. I don't have much of an issue with harder content that is aimed squarely at premades, but at the same time these STF's have sucked up a lot of developer time over the years & the idea of another freaking revamp just sounds idiotic.
The return of the 3 hour STF is not something I care for. I feel 15 minutes is the sweet spot, 30 minutes is pushing it, and 3 hours is where I'm simply not interested in your content no matter how good it is. I just don't have that kind of time anymore, and having to quit half way through hurts everyone. If it was limited to this new difficulty, maybe, but I still think it's a terrible idea given that you're limiting the people who have the ability & desire to play this harder content even more. There's no point spending all that developer time on this if very few people have the time to play it.
As for rewards, you simply can't give out better gear, or you will doom the idea from the get go. I'd keep the mark rewards the same & just offer massive Dil, EC, FC & Exp rewards. 8k Dil, 2 Mill EC, 30K Exp, 1000 Fleet Marks once a day & 2400 Dil, 600k EC, 9K Exp, 300 fleet Marks for every run after that.
That should offer more then enough incentive for people to do it, and even after the "daily" mission you still get good returns, but given that there won't be better gear or marks it should keep the casuals out. Remember, the "PRO" players are doing 5 times the damage of the average pugger, you DON'T need anything more to boost your damage. We have enough power creep as it is with out mark XIV making it worse.
Perfectly said, right here. It is pretty silly to allocate resources to support less than 10% of the player base ... if that. I also doubt they would give so much dilithium or marks.
I have mixed feelings on this one. I don't have much of an issue with harder content that is aimed squarely at premades, but at the same time these STF's have sucked up a lot of developer time over the years & the idea of another freaking revamp just sounds idiotic.
The return of the 3 hour STF is not something I care for. I feel 15 minutes is the sweet spot, 30 minutes is pushing it, and 3 hours is where I'm simply not interested in your content no matter how good it is. I just don't have that kind of time anymore, and having to quit half way through hurts everyone. If it was limited to this new difficulty, maybe, but I still think it's a terrible idea given that you're limiting the people who have the ability & desire to play this harder content even more. There's no point spending all that developer time on this if very few people have the time to play it.
As for rewards, you simply can't give out better gear, or you will doom the idea from the get go. I'd keep the mark rewards the same & just offer massive Dil, EC, FC & Exp rewards. 8k Dil, 2 Mill EC, 30K Exp, 1000 Fleet Marks once a day & 2400 Dil, 600k EC, 9K Exp, 300 fleet Marks for every run after that.
That should offer more then enough incentive for people to do it, and even after the "daily" mission you still get good returns, but given that there won't be better gear or marks it should keep the casuals out.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Comments
This. I believe the whole thing would be a waste of developer resources, but asking for better rewards than the current elite mode will just cause a bigger mess as several people already pointed out in this thread.
For approximately the five minutes it would take for his superiors at Cryptic/PWE to overrule and slap him down. :rolleyes:
Bad but avid ESTF'ers are, in all likelihood, a much bigger segment of the player base than good ESTF'ers, meaning Cryptic can afford to p!$$ off the latter a helluva lot more than the former*. So, iconians' prediction for NSTFs seems pretty much spot-on to me.
* See also casual/IP-agnostic gamers vs. diehard Star Trek fans who take the IP seriously; here, again, Cryptic has repeatedly sided with the former, much larger segment over the latter, resulting in such things as, well, dinosaurs with laser beams on their heads running around a Dyson Sphere. :P
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
I chuckled.
Ok, ok I'm lying.....
I LMAO'd :P
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Mine Trap Supporter
I've disagreed with you quite a bit but this is spot on with what's going to happen if "Nightmare" actually happens, a.k.a. Hard mode in any other game.
The last example is "Defense of New Romulus" from the RRW campaign with LOR's release. It was the only spot in the entire game, in an era where conflict is everywhere, that it actually felt like a desperate battle. Ships going left and right, the Elachi are pouring in. Their ships are tying you down while a few set up their Elachi Barrages (pre-nerf to PVE versions; they actually hurted alot before). The friendly ships didn't spam cloaked tractor mines to keep the entire Elachi fleet in place. In short, there were no crutches for the player to lean on. You actually needed some sort of clue to survive. When the mission was done, it was satisfying. It FELT like it was a battle.
Then people complained that it was too hard; They can't faceroll it. They can't be bothered to use something like Emergency Power to Shields or some sort of Shield or Hull repairs. They can't be bothered with MOVING their ship out of deadly crossfires. They can't be bothered to MOVE out of the way of a pending Elachi Barrage. They just couldn't be bothered to fight. So they call for easy mission changes, and Cryptic obliges.
Now we have the joke that we currently have for "Defense of New Romulus." You literally have to do nothing if you wanted. You COULD choose to shoot at something, but really, your friendly NPCs can do the work. The Elachi are helpless as a boatload of them are caught in Tractor Mines. They try to set up Elachi Barrages (sometimes) but are destroyed very quickly before it goes off. Even if it DOES go off, it literally tickles your shields barely now.
A travesty.
It no longer felt like a battle. You could just cloak and sleep through it.
That's what would happen if more difficult settings would happen with better rewards.
ISE - 13:34 (13:49 not recorded combatlog.log available)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzTbLMBuCpc
CSE - 13:47
http://youtu.be/1pgeWtNk3O0
KASE - 13:19
http://www.twitch.tv/ryansto/c/2888432
Total combat time:
CCE - 1:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESY3Sl5xZfg
HSE - 3:02
http://www.twitch.tv/ryansto/c/2888357
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
And in the future you will be saying the same thing for the newer content. It's unavoidable.
Of course. That's called progression. Something this game currently lacks.
Mine Trap Supporter
I don't think the nerf of defense of New Romulus is a fair example - people were approx level 25 with New and unfamiliar ships and powers - you can't compare that to a lvl 50 captain in a fleet ship with all fleet gear and T5 in all rep powers. There is really no comparison - it is not end game content. There were also thousands of brand new players who had only a few hours on the game by that point which we getting killed 20 times - that is not fun and does not help keep them going. Needing it given it being a level 25 mission was the right business decision.
The idea of nightmare mode is just for the people who have maxed there gear/rep/ships to have an extra challenge - no one will be forced to do it.
!
He also mentioned an upcoming featured episode 'series' is being developed - I hope that is true and he just did not -misuse the word 'series' because a New 4 or 5 part story arc series that a new episode is released every 2 week's for a few months would really win back a lot of players. I always waited with great joy for the next episode to be released - they need to get back to that set-up like the 2800. Sure it's a lot of work for them but I think the player satisfaction and happiness of a new series would take tremendous amounts of many players boredom with the state of the game away - at least for many months.
Having a Borg ship insta-pop you with her Lance, upon spawning, certainly qualifies as 'nightmare.' Doesn't make for a very good mission, though. Same can be said about CCE. Personally, while I love a good challenge, just cranking up the Borg/Voth/whatever DPS isn't an improvement per se.
then its your choice to adapt or finally realize the elitists have been trumped for once.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Don't forget he regarded the statement and said want I really want is to bring back the OLD STF the 3 our version off it would fit better in the future plans for STO.
And I really hope they do that because there was teamwork in place NO TEAM NO Prize I like it...
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I really dislike the idea of taking the current stfs and cranking them up a couple of notches to nightmare. I think that it'll either be 2 shots- you're dead, or once you develop a strategy, you're on autopilot. (Something like nws, where you get marks at the end based on how well you did, even though you're expected to lose would be nice.) It'd also be nice to see something that didn't focus on pure spike DPS.
If the reward is desirable to the casual player base it will cause problems. If the reward is simply more marks and/or titles and such (like NWS) then it will be fine.
Sure your 'hardcore raider' crowd won't bother with it but nothing in STO is designed to appeal for them so no big loss.
Secondly though, the voth difficult? Seriously? I found the pre-nerf Tholians to be much more annoying er difficult than the voth are. Now granted your standard builds may not be as effective but they have a set bag of tricks that can easily be learned and countered with little effort. They are not more difficult than the borg, just better at stalling their inevitable explosion.
Also the rewards should be equal to the challenge. The Hive Onslaught is crazy hard but I don't bother because the rewards are lacking for the effort required.
Personally i'd like to see no penalty, instead I would not let players respawn after a death. What rewards would a player that died receive? It's a tough one maybe just a small amount of dil for effort (100 Dil).
Heck, most of the time Im not even on the game for three hours at a time.
Enjoy the respawn-fest "elite" players.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Great. Don't play them. Continue playing the "Elite" levels.
That's a valid concern. Adding some type of randomization to the event would help solve that. Players should know going in that their chances of success are not good, so not every aspect of the event would need to be balanced.
A minimal amount (5 or less), but sure... something for the attempt.
No. The Rewards are not the most important part. The challenging gameplay is the most important part. In-fact... Ultra-Elite should have a lower reward than Normal.
Here's an idea... Don't die. Make survival a secondary win condition. Die and you get nothing. Give the Engineers a reason to play.
Seriously, I really hate the zerg-rush-respawn aspect of this game.
Yep agreed, if nightmare comes, there should be some high end drops (new gear, items, crafting schematics..ect)
I say crafting schematics. Pair it with an updated crafting system to help revive it.
LMAO. +1 to you!
- Judge Aaron Satie
The return of the 3 hour STF is not something I care for. I feel 15 minutes is the sweet spot, 30 minutes is pushing it, and 3 hours is where I'm simply not interested in your content no matter how good it is. I just don't have that kind of time anymore, and having to quit half way through hurts everyone. If it was limited to this new difficulty, maybe, but I still think it's a terrible idea given that you're limiting the people who have the ability & desire to play this harder content even more. There's no point spending all that developer time on this if very few people have the time to play it.
As for rewards, you simply can't give out better gear, or you will doom the idea from the get go. I'd keep the mark rewards the same & just offer massive Dil, EC, FC & Exp rewards. 8k Dil, 2 Mill EC, 30K Exp, 1000 Fleet Marks once a day & 2400 Dil, 600k EC, 9K Exp, 300 fleet Marks for every run after that.
That should offer more then enough incentive for people to do it, and even after the "daily" mission you still get good returns, but given that there won't be better gear or marks it should keep the casuals out. Remember, the "PRO" players are doing 5 times the damage of the average pugger, you DON'T need anything more to boost your damage. We have enough power creep as it is with out mark XIV making it worse.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Besides, people are sick and tired of the STF, that's why they no longer play them. Adding a nightmare mode isn't going to get people to come back.