test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Feedback› The Art of Star Trek Online

Females - Torso sliders improvement suggestion

jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
edited September 2014 in The Art of Star Trek Online
There's been a lot of talks about female models lately, and its' enhancements. I thought I'd start a separate topic, covering torso/waist/hips mainly. So, I am not going to cover legs & hands, as that's covered by other topics, but will focus purely on torso, to perhaps offer improvements/enhancements of the female torso.

To start - it's all about sliders, sliders, sliders.

The character creator has seemingly enough sliders. However, some of them are very limited, whereas there are sliders, which also affect other sliders' settings. That alone is in my humble opinion bad. So - Let's look at it indepth, to summarize functions of each slider, as well as adding where the settings collide with other slider's setting, and finally, adding a small suggestion how to enhance/improve things.

SHOULDER WIDTH
  • Self explanatory and rather simple. It governs the shoulders width. It does not collide with any other settings if you move them around. I see no problem with this slider, but adding for completion.

SHOULDER BULK
  • Affects bulkiness of the shoulders. No collision with other sliders' settings detected either. Again, adding for complete list.

TORSO BULK
  • Affects the bulkiness of the torso.
  • Limitations - It barely affects the waist part of the body & thus making, in some cases, where certain settings are set, characters looking unnaturally thin in waist.
  • Collisions with other slider settings - collides with bust setting, so when setting the character more bulkier, it also enlarges the TRIBBLE of the character, thus adding to clipping issues in certain cases.
  • Suggestion - For breast problem, see "bust size". For problem with the waist - make it so that the bulkiness affects size of the waist as well, so more settings work and the females look natural no matter how you move the slider around, to get the desired build. Or see "Waist slider" couple of lines beneath.

BUST SIZE
  • Affects size of your character's TRIBBLE.
  • Limitations - The TRIBBLE of this slider, if set to higher than minimum, go over the default TRIBBLE of the female body model and thus, cannot make less 'endowed' character with settings at minimum. At the other side, larger settings seem to look unnatural and perhaps could use some changes for more natural look, so even the bigger scales look good on the character.
  • Collisions - causes clipping of various pieces, such as combadges and chest pieces.
  • Suggestion - As it currently is, this slider simply covers/goes over the "hardcoded" TRIBBLE on the female model itself. Minimalize or remove the default "hardcoded" TRIBBLE on the female model underneath and make this slider only indicator of size of character's TRIBBLE. May prevent issues with clipping, if it's completelly separate, as well as fix the combadges disappearing half-way underneath and allow for more female builds as well, without looking disproportionate.

HIPS SIZE
  • Affects size of hips.
  • Limitations - It actually affects very small part of the body, and it's mainly character's butt's size, which is affected by this setting.
  • Collisions - No collisions with other slider setting detected.
  • Suggestion - Have the slider adjusted so it affects larger area around hips, allowing for curves for those who'd wish for them, as well as mitigating them, if so desired.

What is missing?

WAIST SLIDER

Currently, there's no way to make the waist of female character any thicker or less curvy, to reitrate, there's no way to change the shape of waist at all. Especially at certain settings, the characters look overly thin and unnatural, to the point it stands out how much thin the waist it. The best solution would be adding a separate slider for waist alone, with enough variety. That way, if people desire for any build of the body, be it slim, athletic or model-like, it'll look much more natural with each respective setting, as people will be able to adjust the waist setting if they so desire. I personally believe the waist is way too thin (given the characters have clothes, and not all of them are tight to copy the body-shape, as if there were no clothes) in every case, but again, probably matter of personal taste.

From my understanding, this slider exists in a game, which runs on the same engine, and that alone could make many more builds possible, with the female model.

Giving an illustration of how the torso sliders could look like, after adjustments & also illustrated the thicker waist in small animation, to demostrate how huge the change could be. Thank you for reading. :)
SlidersTorso.gif
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I like, although I think you could rework the OP away from the focus you've put on muscular females to gain more support :)

    Aside from that feedback, I second the idea.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    I like, although I think you could rework the OP away from the focus you've put on muscular females to gain more support :)

    Aside from that feedback, I second the idea.
    Well, the point is, that the settings should work with more than one or two female body shapes without looking odd - hence why suggesting these improvements, as well as the fact, that they could perhaps mitigate some of the glitches they have there.. :)

    EDIT: I wrote the original post at 6 am my time.. so I touched it a bit, thanks for feedback :)
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    You missed a slider: Stomach Size. This slider changes the size of the hips and belly. I'm not sure it's exactly what you want though. At maximum setting, it gives the character a paunch. If I understand you correctly, you want a way to give the character a wide waist with little fat.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    frtoaster wrote: »
    You missed a slider: Stomach Size. This slider changes the size of the hips and belly. I'm not sure it's exactly what you want though. At maximum setting, it gives the character a paunch. If I understand you correctly, you want a way to give the character a wide waist with little fat.
    You are correct, I forgot about stomach slider, yes. I'll add it to complete list later, thank you for pointing that out. And you understand correctly.. there should be a way to control the thiskness of the waist; not just how fat the character is (stomach slier we currently have).

    What I am suggesting is, overally improvement for the female torso, hence why listing limitations and issues with each respective slider. Adding a waist slider would be major and imo should be done for males as well - as the waist is currently the only part of the torso you cannot directly control and thus, at certain settings, the characters look oddly proportioned.
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    These could be applied to the male sliders as well...

    Bust slider for men could be for build. Some males have more bulk in the upper chest than others... as for the waist? Well, I would like to think my captain is well fed and would like to give my character a more realistic waist to better match his age and the fact he doesn't spend every day in the gym for 3 hours.

    On my female characters, yes, I've hit those limitations too, and while I like a shapely female form just as much as everyone else does, I also like slight builds too. I am trying to keep a good mix on my crew, but what I end up with is a bunch of females that look like they all have breast implants and are wearing corsets underneath their tunics.

    My tac boffs, should have thicker waists to match the athletic needs of their specialty, while my science boffs are fine with slight builds matching bodies that spend most of their day crunching numbers and doing the brainy stuff... the engineers tending to have thicker arms for all of the manual work they do, etc etc.

    Full agreement about the breast slider tho. Even the minimum setting, is still a little too big sometimes, particularly when the torso itself is skinny and/or shorter.

    -- Smoov
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    smoovious wrote: »
    These could be applied to the male sliders as well...
    Totally agree with that.

    Back to original topic though - Current unability to alter the waist slimness/thickness limits amount of actual 'builds' imo. Just like you said in your post, that when you set the sliders certain way, the female characters look like they have corsets underneath their uniforms (nicely put, totally fitting!).

    Hence why this topic exists; so we can see the improvements on females and males alike. If anyone wants to make a similar topic for male torso; please feel free to, because I feel the issue is very similar, when it comes to the issues - although males do not have clipping issues because of TRIBBLE, haha. :)
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • alan171717alan171717 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I support this 100%, make it so!

    I want my bridge officers to be able to look like that can protect my scrawny feminine (male) captain.
    "I am a travelor of both time and space to be where I have been"
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    jodarkrider wrote: »
    ... although males do not have clipping issues because of TRIBBLE, haha. :)
    ... yet...

    -- Smoov
  • hanoverhanover Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I am now convinced that jodarkrider spends more time fiddling with settings in the tailor menu than actually playing the game.

    :P
    Does Arc install a root kit? Ask a Dev today!
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Seems like you're getting more support ITT, jodarkrider. =D I'm glad.
    hanover2 wrote: »
    I am now convinced that jodarkrider spends more time fiddling with settings in the tailor menu than actually playing the game.

    :P
    That's part of the game, ijs.;)
    U.S.S.%20Mastermind%20Signature_zpsgsyjxxz1.jpg~original
    Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hanover2 wrote: »
    I am now convinced that jodarkrider spends more time fiddling with settings in the tailor menu than actually playing the game.

    :P

    I'm no better myself :P
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Member Posts: 3,085 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    This whole "fixed waist proportions" thing is also present in Champions Online.
    I suppose it's because character models in older versions of Cryptic games weren't modeled with adjustable waist at all.

    It is not present in Neverwinter, where models were made without this limitation from the very beginning.

    To change it may require redoing models and maybe even redoing all torso costume pieces.
    *Alternative CO forum*  *Toons at PDB*  *DeviantART*




  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hanover2 wrote: »
    I am now convinced that jodarkrider spends more time fiddling with settings in the tailor menu than actually playing the game.

    :P
    Yyyyyyyeeeeahhhhhh, suuuuuuure, son. :P
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • chrisolliecchrisolliec Member Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This thread is a good idea.

    Besides, the hips slider collides with the (forgotten) stomach slider.
    As well as the torso slider does.
    Both increase how far the stomach sticks out.
    Torso for the upper belly (which makes it look like the char would wear way too tight pants if you don't move the hips slider accordingly), hips for the lower belly (effect not that strong, as the portion of belly that is affected isn't as big as the torso one).
    If you move all of them to the max, your char looks like she were pregnant.
    (Try this on the "Satra" Boff from the Romulans and you'll get a belly that looks as if she were at least ten months pregnant with at least twins.:P)

    As you can see, I'm another slider tinkerer - creating an new char usually takes me quite some time... ;)
    "I came from a time long gone, saw many other times...
    But I'm still a mere human."
    Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You guys should probably check a certain thread way down in the bowels of the forums, in the Tribble section ... There is a thread in there that might interest you ... Just sayin ;)
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
    My%20STO%20Sig%20Clear_zps5etu86s1.png
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    You guys should probably check a certain thread way down in the bowels of the forums, in the Tribble section ... There is a thread in there that might interest you ... Just sayin ;)
    Yeah, someone necro'd this hardcore... but surely, I'm glad that the developpers listened. :D
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Had a quick play with the new sliders on Tribble ...

    It's not perfect, and I think they still need to add more adjustment levels, most notably in the "minimum" direction, but from what I've had a look at so far, were going to be seeing a lot of Nicki Minaj and Shakira clones appearing around ESD and Qo'noS once these go to Holodeck ... :D

    I can already hear the words 'Dayum gurll!" being used a lot in zone chat ... ;)
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
    My%20STO%20Sig%20Clear_zps5etu86s1.png
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    Had a quick play with the new sliders on Tribble ...

    It's not perfect, and I think they still need to add more adjustment levels, most notably in the "minimum" direction, but from what I've had a look at so far, were going to be seeing a lot of Nicki Minaj and Shakira clones appearing around ESD and Qo'noS once these go to Holodeck ... :D

    I can already hear the words 'Dayum gurll!" being used a lot in zone chat ... ;)
    Agreed, the minimum settings could use more improvement. We can wish and hope, but I still like they took some of our suggestions to heart.

    As for weird barbie girls running around - honestly, as long as it's not forced on my character, I don't care what monstrosities run around all that much, people are entitled to their choices just like I'm on mine.
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,728 Community Moderator
    edited August 2014
    I'm hopping they fix the TNG badge clipping issue. That one's been bothering me since I started playing just before F2P.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jodarkrider wrote: »
    <snip>As for weird barbie girls running around - honestly, as long as it's not forced on my character, I don't care what monstrosities run around all that much, people are entitled to their choices just like I'm on mine.

    I concur ... I've seen some truly awful toons in STO (the ones where you just have to ask ... Why!!!) ...

    But then I have also seen some truly astonishing and beautiful combinations, so much so that I have, on several occasions, even turned Zone Chat back on and actually complemented players on their creation.

    On a slight tangent, I have a Female Trill Toon, and I gave her the Mirror Crop Top, T'Pol Pants with the "Suit Boots" as her "Workout/Exercise Costume" ... And I've had several compliments on the outfit ... and rather disturbingly, one "proposition" from another player ...
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
    My%20STO%20Sig%20Clear_zps5etu86s1.png
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    I concur ... I've seen some truly awful toons in STO (the ones where you just have to ask ... Why!!!) ...

    Who doesn't!? That said, I haven't seen as many recently, maybe I spend too much time in space
    But then I have also seen some truly astonishing and beautiful combinations, so much so that I have, on several occasions, even turned Zone Chat back on and actually complemented players on their creation.

    First, you turned Zone Chat on at all!?!?!?! You brave, brave person! lol
    Second, I like to think I do a good job on my characters making sure they're proportions are as close to right as I can get them, my first female character was two hours in the making and then another half an hour of adjustments after the first mission, she's been in and out of the tailor ever since for minor tweaks lol.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
Sign In or Register to comment.