Klingon: We are going to help you fight the Borg, but don't you think it's because we like you!
Federation: Oh yeah? Well maybe we don't need your help and don't want you to like us, you should be glad that we are fighting the Tholians for you!
Klingon: We are helping you because we know you would TRIBBLE up without us! And we are fighting the Tholians together, whether you like that or not!
Federation: Well, we don't, and while we accept your help we have been doing perfectly fine without you, so it's not because we need you, Baka!
Klingon: And we don't need you! Baka!
Romulan: Would you two Idiots just bloody get a room and start making out already?
Yeah, the war doesn't really make much sense at this point, espeically with everyone knowing the Undine orchestrated it and the Iconians are ready to conquer what's left afterwards. Ending it feels like a looong overdone move.
-
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
That and our characters regardless of faction know whats up with the undine by the end of the undine missions but it just ends without any follow up.
That and we know that some elements of starfleet are infiltrated by the undine and that the KDF chancellor may be an undine as well.
Do we know FULLY what's up though?
The Klingon lore hints at conspiracies involving J'mpok.
Maybe J'mpok led a team of Tal Shiar and Solonae on the strike against the Undine that triggered their involvement.
We know whoever attacked the Undine used an Iconian gate. It seems reasonable based on what we now know that it was NOT Iconians using the gate though and it always seemed silly that the Undine would mistake an Iconian attack for us attacking them.
My thinking is that it may have been some kind of joint servitor/Tal Shiar strike against the Undine that J'mpok led, hoping to provoke the Undine in a way that would benefit him politically.
I keep hoping that Martok's death was staged and that we could recover him somehow.
Just officially ending the war won't do anything for the game. Cryptic would need to go a few steps further and unite every playable faction under the banner of the federation, making all content -missions, ships, equipment- available for all players. Much more playtime for every char, no more faction specific balance issues, no more unprofitable and forever delayed klingon ships.
Yeah, you can forget that idealism. The Federation is already too big for its britches.
But ...
... if the war is going to end, what does that do to the "red vs. Blue" nonsensical excuse used for not allowing Romulans to be a full faction? "Red vs. Blue vs. Green" would be much better on multiple levels.
Red vs. Blue is an example of the Bifurcation Fallacy. Imposing such a perspective promotes social, political, economic, intellectual, and spiritual retardation (as well as "cultural" polarization). It needs to go for the good of real-world society (because encouraging thought and a broader and less simplistic perspective among gamers will, eventually, translate to real-world effects), as well as for the improvement of the game.
I've heard rumors that references to it are being scrapped from the opening Fed cinematic.
However, conflict with Klingons has been ADDED to the Fed tutorial.
This all does suggest to me that they plan to do SOME more with it but don't intend for it to be a permanent part of the game's backdrop. Since they are introducing the idea of fighting Klingons in the tutorial but are downplaying J'mpok and the Khitomer Accords in the cinematic.
Well that makes sense. :rolleyes:
"Fight's over!"
"No it isn't!"
Is Geko developing some kind of split personality? :rolleyes:
Yeah, you can forget that idealism. The Federation is already too big for its britches.
But ...
... if the war is going to end, what does that do to the "red vs. Blue" nonsensical excuse used for not allowing Romulans to be a full faction? "Red vs. Blue vs. Green" would be much better on multiple levels.
Red vs. Blue is an example of the Bifurcation Fallacy. Imposing such a perspective promotes social, political, economic, intellectual, and spiritual retardation (as well as "cultural" polarization). It needs to go for the good of real-world society (because encouraging thought and a broader and less simplistic perspective among gamers will, eventually, translate to real-world effects), as well as for the improvement of the game.
Remind me what makes the Romulans not a full faction again, aside from having the added option of using leveling ships, BOffs, and not having their own DOff system or Omega gear or starbases?
It seems to me that they lack very little and that most of what makes them "not a real faction" are things that they are less restricted about, not things they are lacking in.
One problem with the theory that the chancellor is an Undine. Letheans.
Seriously, guys, unless the 'outed' infiltrators in the High Council purposefully revealed themselves to the Lethean mercs, the Klingons have working Undine detectors without any fancy technology. Just sic the psychic mercs on them. Start a Lethean Inquisition to root out infiltrators.
You know... sometimes it's better to... reveal one of yours to instill more fear and chaos.
I think that was one of the themes in the 'The Needs of the Many'.
I mean it's perfect, Letheans, being telepaths, are being influenced by Undine from the Beginning, actually helping them to replace J'mpok.
This Infiltrator is now safe, he can claim to have these Letheans for protection and Anti-Undine Operations etc. and nobody can actually prove the opposite.
Then you have a few Undine Operatives purposefully revealing (or rather letting themselves get revealed) themselves and you have a widespread panic and absolute fear because they can be everywhere and everyone and now the J'mpok Infiltrator and his Lethean Lackeys can strengthen their positiion being all "I have protection! We know how to deal with it!" etc. and can continue the Undines Campaign (and in extension the Iconian Plot).
Edit: If anything we need a FULL Feature Episode Series (at least one, maybe even two, complete with a Cliffhanger after the first), where we and our Klingon Counterparts and some heroic Romulans discover the actual Base of Operations of the Undine in our Universe, needing to infiltrate it, covert and not guns blazing, and having some optionals of releasing some "minor" Chars that have been known to be Undine in the previous Story and finally finding... Chancellor J'mpoc and Admiral Zelle, rescuing them, sabotaging the Bases Power Supply and trying to flee. Cut, Cliffhanger...
Second FE Series, we "return", having to get through an Undine Fleet, we barely get to waiting Enterprise and Bortasqu' (maybe even the Lleiset) and a combined Fleet (and not just 2 Ships ) with the Undine in Hot Pursuit.
Space battle in several Stages (maybe 2 Episodes long) with one Ground Combat Area where we try to board one Undine Battleship that "seems" to lead the Fleet and try to destroy it from within.
Big Flash...
Solanae and Elachi come out of an Iconian Gateway right as our Away Team was to blow up that Undine Ship, suddenly the Undine Break off their attack on the Allied Fleet and go on a complete frenzy against both the Solanae and the Elachi... something something Space Magic and we can return to our ship, now having the Klingons, the Federation (maybe the Romulans) AND the Undine all three fighting against this Iconian Servitor Fleet.
We (of course) manage to beat back the Fleet and the Undine somehow can disrupt the Open Gatway, we share a moment of silence, maybe another ground part where we meet up (all three... or four) and discuss what has happened when a huge Iconian Fleet Jumps right into the midst of our Fleet and a Single Messagen is send on all frequencies...
"Our Return... is your undoing!"
CUT! Cue 2-3 complete new STF agains the Iconians and prepare for next season!
One problem with the theory that the chancellor is an Undine. Letheans.
Seriously, guys, unless the 'outed' infiltrators in the High Council purposefully revealed themselves to the Lethean mercs, the Klingons have working Undine detectors without any fancy technology. Just sic the psychic mercs on them. Start a Lethean Inquisition to root out infiltrators.
He's also pushing to kill more Undine.
I could buy thatJ'mpok is a traitor, that he's being mind controlled by Orion traitors, that he may have provoked the Undine. I just can't buy that he is one.
That said, it would be nice if we had a plot that actually revealed who we've met actually is an Undine because unless some people we know (Kurland, Yaneshev, Quinn, etc.) are Undine, that plot wound up being rather pointless too.
As far as the storyline goes, it makes sense for the Fed/Klingon war to end, given how much joint faction stuff the Feds and Klingons do together. I really do love the idea of Worf becoming Chancellor. Plus, if they made a great feature episode series about a new peace treaty would just be awesome and very Trek. I hope whenever they do it that they also refresh PVP at the same time.
... if the war is going to end, what does that do to the "red vs. Blue" nonsensical excuse used for not allowing Romulans to be a full faction?
Probably nothing. Cutting everyone off from their current starbases probably isn't really possible.
I've already invested heavily in a fleet starbase, and I don't want to lose that support, plus wait 6 months = 1 year for another one to get as far.
If they want to add an option to go your own way (and be severely gimped for a long time to come), then that's fine, but I've put in too much to give it all up just so we can hang out together in a big station shaped like a bird or whatever.
This isn't all that different from Klingons on TNG and DS9, honestly. They had a very loose definition of 'honor', and were more often just bullies and psychopaths.
Which is no different from the duplicity of ethics we see within the federation when one looks at the individuals who make it up.
Which is no different from the duplicity of ethics we see within the federation when one looks at the individuals who make it up.
DS9 made a point of showing that it was different, by having Ezri ask Worf if there'd ever been a leader in the Empire who he respected, and having him be stumped. That entire episode is about there being deep, institutional flaws in the Klingon system.
That was why Worf chose to put Martok in charge, because he knew that if he didn't, the Empire would likely eventually fall.
As far as the storyline goes, it makes sense for the Fed/Klingon war to end years ago, i mean, come on, given how much joint faction stuff the Feds and Klingons do together. I really do love the idea of Worf becoming Chancellor. Plus, if they made a great feature episode series about a new peace treaty would just be awesome and very Trek. I hope whenever they do it that they also refresh PVP at the same time.
DS9 made a point of showing that it was different, by having Ezri ask Worf if there'd ever been a leader in the Empire who he respected, and having him be stumped. That entire episode is about there being deep, institutional flaws in the Klingon system.
That was why Worf chose to put Martok in charge, because he knew that if he didn't, the Empire would likely eventually fall.
Honestly, I think Worf was the flaw. Don't get me wrong, I like Worf and he's probably amongst my favourite ST chars, but the fact that he lived with human parents and served in Starfleet from young age influenced his development as an individual.
As a char, he's just way to weird and uptight for a Klingon - at least compared to the vast majority of other Klingons we've seen throughout the shows. I can't see him succesfully leading the Empire for ex.
DS9 made a point of showing that it was different, by having Ezri ask Worf if there'd ever been a leader in the Empire who he respected, and having him be stumped. That entire episode is about there being deep, institutional flaws in the Klingon system.
That was why Worf chose to put Martok in charge, because he knew that if he didn't, the Empire would likely eventually fall.
If worf was any type of a warrior he would have turned to ezri and reminded her that the federation president didn't want to be there and isn't a leader either.
So "na na na bo bo".
Honestly, I think Worf was the flaw. Don't get me wrong, I like Worf and he's probably amongst my favourite ST chars, but the fact that he lived with human parents and served in Starfleet from young age influenced his development as an individual.
The flaw in question was that Chancellor was putting both the Empire and the war at risk for his own gain. This is the kind of man you get when the only way to rule is to claw your way to the top.
I can't see him succesfully leading the Empire for ex.
Neither could he, which is why I chose Martok. Martok was what the Empire needed: a man who was strong and brave and smart, but also wise and humble. He's the sort of man who should ideally be running the empire: instead, we get blowhard politicians like Gowron.
Martok was the cure for the corruption inherent in the system. Unfortunately, it appears to be back in full-force.
DS9 made a point of showing that it was different, by having Ezri ask Worf if there'd ever been a leader in the Empire who he respected, and having him be stumped. That entire episode is about there being deep, institutional flaws in the Klingon system.
That was why Worf chose to put Martok in charge, because he knew that if he didn't, the Empire would likely eventually fall.
and Kirk went off on his on crusade at the drop of a combadge against UFP protocals, Admiral whats his name allid with the Rommies and Klingons to assassinate the UFP president to prolong a war, Spock stretched the truth when it suited his ends, Sisko darkened his honor to save the Bajorans... The story of the fed heroes and supporting cast are as flawed as any sentient species ever shown in the IP
The UFP and Starfleet are as far from pure as the east is from the west, which is exactly my point.
you say the Klingons are corrupt, dishonorable and whatever and I say the feds are just as flawed. Neither lives up to its high and lofty ideals because such always breaks down at the individual level. Each has its share of dishonor, bullies and psycopaths to spare.
Neither lives up to its high and lofty ideals because such always breaks down at the individual level.
The difference is that the Empire is broken on an institutional level. Ezri comes right out and says that the Empire is dying, and Worf can't really come up with a cogent arguement against it, because deep down he knows it's true, and so do most Klingons. You still see some of this extensional angst about the state of the Empire in STO, such as the fear that the Federation will destroy their culture simply by coexisting with it.
Meritocracy is great, until you realize that the same merits that tend to aid people in becoming powerful are the same ones that you absolutely don't want powerful people to have . . . ever.
Worf killed an established politician from a noble house and put a commoner in his place, because he knew that he had to break some of those rules if the Empire was going to make it through the Dominion War. Right now, the Empire needs another Martok, and I think everyone knows who that is and what Jar'rod is going to have to do to end the war.
The difference is that the Empire is broken on an institutional level. Ezri comes right out and says that the Empire is dying, and Worf can't really come up with a cogent arguement against it, because deep down he knows it's true, and so do most Klingons. You still see some of this extensional angst about the state of the Empire in STO, such as the fear that the Federation will destroy their culture simply by coexisting with it.
Meritocracy is great, until you realize that the same merits that tend to aid people in becoming powerful are the same ones that you absolutely don't want powerful people to have . . . ever.
Worf killed an established politician from a noble house and put a commoner in his place, because he knew that he had to break some of those rules if the Empire was going to make it through the Dominion War. Right now, the Empire needs another Martok, and I think everyone knows who that is and what Jar'rod is going to have to do to end the war.
remember. Ezri is a psychologist. Not a poli sci major.
She is an armchair observer.
remember. Ezri is a psychologist. Not a poli sci major.
She is an armchair observer.
That's why the writers put Worf there, to have a Klingon voice to refute her if she's wrong. He doesn't.
EDIT: Also, as a Dax host, she has lifetimes of experience in dealing closely with Klingons. She doesn't even really want to tell Worf this. She was his wife until recently. She says it because that's what Klingons needed to hear at that time.
and Kirk went off on his on crusade at the drop of a combadge against UFP protocals, Admiral whats his name allid with the Rommies and Klingons to assassinate the UFP president to prolong a war, Spock stretched the truth when it suited his ends, Sisko darkened his honor to save the Bajorans... The story of the fed heroes and supporting cast are as flawed as any sentient species ever shown in the IP
The UFP and Starfleet are as far from pure as the east is from the west, which is exactly my point.
you say the Klingons are corrupt, dishonorable and whatever and I say the feds are just as flawed. Neither lives up to its high and lofty ideals because such always breaks down at the individual level. Each has its share of dishonor, bullies and psycopaths to spare.
Don't forget the guy who went against the treaty of algeron and developed a federation cloaking device, or section 31 for that matter.
As you rightly say Roach the Federation is as morally bankrupt as any other species when it suits their needs.
That's why the writers put Worf there, to have a Klingon voice to refute her if she's wrong. He doesn't.
which works very well during the DS9 timeline but does nothing the lessen the fact that both factions are as flawed as each other in STO, or as flawed as the individuals that move within their own manifestations over years.
Back to what I keep saying both are flawed, in STO and before STO.
Don't forget the guy who went against the treaty of algeron and developed a federation cloaking device, or section 31 for that matter.
As you rightly say Roach the Federation is as morally bankrupt as any other species when it suits their needs.
Exactly. People as individuals or as a government, all have a darkside where their moralities no longer hold firm. No one or no political structure is beyond it.
All I keep getting is the arguement the Empire is flawed without acceptance that so is the UFP.
Everybodies S@#*t stinks, thats the big universal constant and why evry sentient knows what s@#*t is. There is no pefect society or government.
STO's story content writers are trying desperately to give the Klingons a valid argument to attract people to the faction in the hope that maybe someday it'll be profitable. I guess someone has to, and it might as well be the people with the least overhead.
Look at the mission where Romulans have to pick a side. Apparently the Federation, the one power in the Alpha Quadrant who prides itself on it's careful diplomacy, decided to send a blabbermouth and a racist to represent them. If they wanted to make people pick the KDF, why not just send Janeway?
I'm not sure why they bother, because players who are emotionally invested in factions are all completely insane and I've seen people make sincere posts arguing in support of fascism because their favorite faction is the REAL good guy.
Comments
Federation: Oh yeah? Well maybe we don't need your help and don't want you to like us, you should be glad that we are fighting the Tholians for you!
Klingon: We are helping you because we know you would TRIBBLE up without us! And we are fighting the Tholians together, whether you like that or not!
Federation: Well, we don't, and while we accept your help we have been doing perfectly fine without you, so it's not because we need you, Baka!
Klingon: And we don't need you! Baka!
Romulan: Would you two Idiots just bloody get a room and start making out already?
Yeah, the war doesn't really make much sense at this point, espeically with everyone knowing the Undine orchestrated it and the Iconians are ready to conquer what's left afterwards. Ending it feels like a looong overdone move.
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
Do we know FULLY what's up though?
The Klingon lore hints at conspiracies involving J'mpok.
Maybe J'mpok led a team of Tal Shiar and Solonae on the strike against the Undine that triggered their involvement.
We know whoever attacked the Undine used an Iconian gate. It seems reasonable based on what we now know that it was NOT Iconians using the gate though and it always seemed silly that the Undine would mistake an Iconian attack for us attacking them.
My thinking is that it may have been some kind of joint servitor/Tal Shiar strike against the Undine that J'mpok led, hoping to provoke the Undine in a way that would benefit him politically.
I keep hoping that Martok's death was staged and that we could recover him somehow.
Yeah, you can forget that idealism. The Federation is already too big for its britches.
But ...
... if the war is going to end, what does that do to the "red vs. Blue" nonsensical excuse used for not allowing Romulans to be a full faction? "Red vs. Blue vs. Green" would be much better on multiple levels.
Red vs. Blue is an example of the Bifurcation Fallacy. Imposing such a perspective promotes social, political, economic, intellectual, and spiritual retardation (as well as "cultural" polarization). It needs to go for the good of real-world society (because encouraging thought and a broader and less simplistic perspective among gamers will, eventually, translate to real-world effects), as well as for the improvement of the game.
Well that makes sense. :rolleyes:
"Fight's over!"
"No it isn't!"
Is Geko developing some kind of split personality? :rolleyes:
Remind me what makes the Romulans not a full faction again, aside from having the added option of using leveling ships, BOffs, and not having their own DOff system or Omega gear or starbases?
It seems to me that they lack very little and that most of what makes them "not a real faction" are things that they are less restricted about, not things they are lacking in.
Seriously, guys, unless the 'outed' infiltrators in the High Council purposefully revealed themselves to the Lethean mercs, the Klingons have working Undine detectors without any fancy technology. Just sic the psychic mercs on them. Start a Lethean Inquisition to root out infiltrators.
I think that was one of the themes in the 'The Needs of the Many'.
I mean it's perfect, Letheans, being telepaths, are being influenced by Undine from the Beginning, actually helping them to replace J'mpok.
This Infiltrator is now safe, he can claim to have these Letheans for protection and Anti-Undine Operations etc. and nobody can actually prove the opposite.
Then you have a few Undine Operatives purposefully revealing (or rather letting themselves get revealed) themselves and you have a widespread panic and absolute fear because they can be everywhere and everyone and now the J'mpok Infiltrator and his Lethean Lackeys can strengthen their positiion being all "I have protection! We know how to deal with it!" etc. and can continue the Undines Campaign (and in extension the Iconian Plot).
Edit: If anything we need a FULL Feature Episode Series (at least one, maybe even two, complete with a Cliffhanger after the first), where we and our Klingon Counterparts and some heroic Romulans discover the actual Base of Operations of the Undine in our Universe, needing to infiltrate it, covert and not guns blazing, and having some optionals of releasing some "minor" Chars that have been known to be Undine in the previous Story and finally finding... Chancellor J'mpoc and Admiral Zelle, rescuing them, sabotaging the Bases Power Supply and trying to flee. Cut, Cliffhanger...
Second FE Series, we "return", having to get through an Undine Fleet, we barely get to waiting Enterprise and Bortasqu' (maybe even the Lleiset) and a combined Fleet (and not just 2 Ships
Space battle in several Stages (maybe 2 Episodes long) with one Ground Combat Area where we try to board one Undine Battleship that "seems" to lead the Fleet and try to destroy it from within.
Big Flash...
Solanae and Elachi come out of an Iconian Gateway right as our Away Team was to blow up that Undine Ship, suddenly the Undine Break off their attack on the Allied Fleet and go on a complete frenzy against both the Solanae and the Elachi... something something Space Magic and we can return to our ship, now having the Klingons, the Federation (maybe the Romulans) AND the Undine all three fighting against this Iconian Servitor Fleet.
We (of course) manage to beat back the Fleet and the Undine somehow can disrupt the Open Gatway, we share a moment of silence, maybe another ground part where we meet up (all three... or four) and discuss what has happened when a huge Iconian Fleet Jumps right into the midst of our Fleet and a Single Messagen is send on all frequencies...
"Our Return... is your undoing!"
CUT! Cue 2-3 complete new STF agains the Iconians and prepare for next season!
He's also pushing to kill more Undine.
I could buy thatJ'mpok is a traitor, that he's being mind controlled by Orion traitors, that he may have provoked the Undine. I just can't buy that he is one.
That said, it would be nice if we had a plot that actually revealed who we've met actually is an Undine because unless some people we know (Kurland, Yaneshev, Quinn, etc.) are Undine, that plot wound up being rather pointless too.
Probably nothing. Cutting everyone off from their current starbases probably isn't really possible.
I've already invested heavily in a fleet starbase, and I don't want to lose that support, plus wait 6 months = 1 year for another one to get as far.
If they want to add an option to go your own way (and be severely gimped for a long time to come), then that's fine, but I've put in too much to give it all up just so we can hang out together in a big station shaped like a bird or whatever.
Which is no different from the duplicity of ethics we see within the federation when one looks at the individuals who make it up.
R.I.P
more like called due to lack of interest
DS9 made a point of showing that it was different, by having Ezri ask Worf if there'd ever been a leader in the Empire who he respected, and having him be stumped. That entire episode is about there being deep, institutional flaws in the Klingon system.
That was why Worf chose to put Martok in charge, because he knew that if he didn't, the Empire would likely eventually fall.
fixed for you
lack of interest and resources on Cryptics part, yes. That is the reason.
But it is always nice to flare up emotions with a "yeah the other guy gave up".
Honestly, I think Worf was the flaw. Don't get me wrong, I like Worf and he's probably amongst my favourite ST chars, but the fact that he lived with human parents and served in Starfleet from young age influenced his development as an individual.
As a char, he's just way to weird and uptight for a Klingon - at least compared to the vast majority of other Klingons we've seen throughout the shows. I can't see him succesfully leading the Empire for ex.
If worf was any type of a warrior he would have turned to ezri and reminded her that the federation president didn't want to be there and isn't a leader either.
So "na na na bo bo".
The flaw in question was that Chancellor was putting both the Empire and the war at risk for his own gain. This is the kind of man you get when the only way to rule is to claw your way to the top.
Neither could he, which is why I chose Martok. Martok was what the Empire needed: a man who was strong and brave and smart, but also wise and humble. He's the sort of man who should ideally be running the empire: instead, we get blowhard politicians like Gowron.
Martok was the cure for the corruption inherent in the system. Unfortunately, it appears to be back in full-force.
and Kirk went off on his on crusade at the drop of a combadge against UFP protocals, Admiral whats his name allid with the Rommies and Klingons to assassinate the UFP president to prolong a war, Spock stretched the truth when it suited his ends, Sisko darkened his honor to save the Bajorans... The story of the fed heroes and supporting cast are as flawed as any sentient species ever shown in the IP
The UFP and Starfleet are as far from pure as the east is from the west, which is exactly my point.
you say the Klingons are corrupt, dishonorable and whatever and I say the feds are just as flawed. Neither lives up to its high and lofty ideals because such always breaks down at the individual level. Each has its share of dishonor, bullies and psycopaths to spare.
R.I.P
At least that makes sense. I can even make the awards up, right now. No new items.
L2, Access to factions Eta Errandi starbase
L4, Access to factions Homeworlds
L5, Access to factions levelling content.
Boom!
The difference is that the Empire is broken on an institutional level. Ezri comes right out and says that the Empire is dying, and Worf can't really come up with a cogent arguement against it, because deep down he knows it's true, and so do most Klingons. You still see some of this extensional angst about the state of the Empire in STO, such as the fear that the Federation will destroy their culture simply by coexisting with it.
Meritocracy is great, until you realize that the same merits that tend to aid people in becoming powerful are the same ones that you absolutely don't want powerful people to have . . . ever.
Worf killed an established politician from a noble house and put a commoner in his place, because he knew that he had to break some of those rules if the Empire was going to make it through the Dominion War. Right now, the Empire needs another Martok, and I think everyone knows who that is and what Jar'rod is going to have to do to end the war.
remember. Ezri is a psychologist. Not a poli sci major.
She is an armchair observer.
Absolutely the single worst idea I've ever read on the forum.
That's why the writers put Worf there, to have a Klingon voice to refute her if she's wrong. He doesn't.
EDIT: Also, as a Dax host, she has lifetimes of experience in dealing closely with Klingons. She doesn't even really want to tell Worf this. She was his wife until recently. She says it because that's what Klingons needed to hear at that time.
Kill Melani D'ian and the war is truly over.
that is absolutely the single worst comment I've ever read on the forum. Nothing tangible.
Don't forget the guy who went against the treaty of algeron and developed a federation cloaking device, or section 31 for that matter.
As you rightly say Roach the Federation is as morally bankrupt as any other species when it suits their needs.
which works very well during the DS9 timeline but does nothing the lessen the fact that both factions are as flawed as each other in STO, or as flawed as the individuals that move within their own manifestations over years.
Back to what I keep saying both are flawed, in STO and before STO.
R.I.P
Exactly. People as individuals or as a government, all have a darkside where their moralities no longer hold firm. No one or no political structure is beyond it.
All I keep getting is the arguement the Empire is flawed without acceptance that so is the UFP.
Everybodies S@#*t stinks, thats the big universal constant and why evry sentient knows what s@#*t is. There is no pefect society or government.
R.I.P
STO's story content writers are trying desperately to give the Klingons a valid argument to attract people to the faction in the hope that maybe someday it'll be profitable. I guess someone has to, and it might as well be the people with the least overhead.
Look at the mission where Romulans have to pick a side. Apparently the Federation, the one power in the Alpha Quadrant who prides itself on it's careful diplomacy, decided to send a blabbermouth and a racist to represent them. If they wanted to make people pick the KDF, why not just send Janeway?
I'm not sure why they bother, because players who are emotionally invested in factions are all completely insane and I've seen people make sincere posts arguing in support of fascism because their favorite faction is the REAL good guy.