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Suggestion: Sub-Factions
orangeitis
Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
I was specifically thinking about the KDF(and their lack of ships) when I decided to post this, so I think it goes here.
I'm proposing to the STO devs a new system where segregated species ships get bonuses. (well, different bonuses than united species ships)
-Add one 'free selection' ship per tier for each faction's sub-species(in this case, Orion, Nausicaan, Ferasan, Lethean, and Gorn for KDF)
-Use zen store ships as their premium skins (such as using the Dacoit Flight-Deck Cruiser as the premium skin for the Orion's Commander-level Brigand Cruiser)
-Add stat bonuses for each BOFF that matches the ship's and/or captain's species
-Add more species-specific costume options
-Add species-specific ship interiors including unified-species crew options
-Add species-specific captain skills that boost same-species away team abilities
-Any 'alien' species that joins their crew gains costume options for that specific group (such as those huge sharp Nausicaan bladed armor parts for Nausicaan aliens)
-Don't forget Klingons/Humans/Romulans
-And to balance it with united species ships/away teams, add skills that get stronger when synchronized with skills of other species
I'm wagering that it's the lack of gameplay that is specific to sub-species that is the reason you're not selling as many species-specific ships as you could be, Cryptic. Implement this system and I'm sure you'll get far more sales.
My older suggestion threads (dead threads; do not post in them!)
Orangie's Suggestions - Fleet Holding
Orangie's Suggestions - Zen Store Gifts
Orangie's Suggestions - Non-Combat Gameplay
Orangie's Suggestions - Celestial & Envoy Saucer Separation
Orangie's Suggestions - Cardassian Faction
Orangie's Suggestions - Klingon Blood Color
Orangie's Suggestions - Mission Pod Slot
I'm proposing to the STO devs a new system where segregated species ships get bonuses. (well, different bonuses than united species ships)
-Add one 'free selection' ship per tier for each faction's sub-species(in this case, Orion, Nausicaan, Ferasan, Lethean, and Gorn for KDF)
-Use zen store ships as their premium skins (such as using the Dacoit Flight-Deck Cruiser as the premium skin for the Orion's Commander-level Brigand Cruiser)
-Add stat bonuses for each BOFF that matches the ship's and/or captain's species
-Add more species-specific costume options
-Add species-specific ship interiors including unified-species crew options
-Add species-specific captain skills that boost same-species away team abilities
-Any 'alien' species that joins their crew gains costume options for that specific group (such as those huge sharp Nausicaan bladed armor parts for Nausicaan aliens)
-Don't forget Klingons/Humans/Romulans
-And to balance it with united species ships/away teams, add skills that get stronger when synchronized with skills of other species
I'm wagering that it's the lack of gameplay that is specific to sub-species that is the reason you're not selling as many species-specific ships as you could be, Cryptic. Implement this system and I'm sure you'll get far more sales.
My older suggestion threads (dead threads; do not post in them!)
Orangie's Suggestions - Fleet Holding
Orangie's Suggestions - Zen Store Gifts
Orangie's Suggestions - Non-Combat Gameplay
Orangie's Suggestions - Celestial & Envoy Saucer Separation
Orangie's Suggestions - Cardassian Faction
Orangie's Suggestions - Klingon Blood Color
Orangie's Suggestions - Mission Pod Slot
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Honestly, if they adjusted the dialog depending on the race of the char, in line with their various racial motivations and circumstances for why they are in Empire, that would go a long way.
One quick art option would be to design some alternate bridges/hallway designs that could be used for the racial ships. I do not think an Orion would have a dim, red lit bridge with targs running around on their Marauder.
I'd really like to see not only the visual distinctions, but to be given more background for each race. If you're leveling a Gorn, for example, you really should get a mission that's relevant to a Gorn and not just a Klingon. There's even less excuse for folding in Orions like that, since we know so much more about their culture.
But it's too late for Gorn and Orions to get the "Romulan" treatment. They are never going to feel like independent factions with a complete set of dedicated missions, full line of ships, etc.
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Why I agree to a good extent, they have done a pretty good job with the back story/path to 2409 to show why the Orions and Gorn are in the KDF, enough in my mind to eliminate the need for racial specific missions. The ships is not really an issue; from the dearth of canon examples, they could pump out as many different race ships as they want, as long as someone would buy them (definitely would not get them for free).
I have less trouble with the dialog when its a Gorn as the character, maybe its from the Klingons conquering them or seeing S'taas running around sounding like a Klingon all the time. But it's fairly obvious that the whole Orion deal is something of convenience to the Orions, no matter what J'mpok thinks. Nausicaans and Letheans are more of a fit (if the whole honor/tradition/ceremony/ angle thing was taken out). Ferasan are Kzinti; no idea why they would be in the KDF, and I do not think back story makes it clear why they are there.
Hmm..maybe I will buy the Ferasan race, I suspect the Obelisk is closest I will come to a Kzinti carrier from SFB
Yeah, Cryptic basically approached the KDF as if it were an armored version of the Federation, when the Klingon Empire has NEVER been like that. If aliens served on ships, they did so as menial labor. Klingons have always filled in the need for manpower.
Having all manner of species wandering around on KDF installations/planets is just immersion-breaking for anyone who gets stuck on that detail.
At the very least, it would have been nice to have different dialogue for every sub-species, to emphasize the fact that there are supposed to be differences in culture and outlook. But that would require Cryptic actually caring about the KDF's development and actually devoting significant resources to flesh out the faction entirely. Much better to just slap on the missing levels, re-do the tutorial, and declare it 100% finished.
I agree, we aren't a armored version of the Federation, we don't use sick and unethical things like diplomacy, subterfuge, and the subverting of all cultures that they coexist with we don't use such foul means of treachery, nor do we just say the phrase "prime directive" as a excuse not to intervene on a morally wrong issue.
They will leave their own citizens to die to a foreign power* and rather then help them and did NOTHING about it, Worse yet they called their own citizens traitors for defending themselves yet it was the Federation that betrayed their own citizens, We Klingons however helped them It was the honorable thing to do, while the Federation just sat back on their soft and weak rear ends saying that we were the unethical, bloodthirsty, unintelligent, slow, and evil in the flesh, The attitude of the Federation is sick for being such a 'tolerant' and 'peace loving' galactic power.
*See the Demilitarized zone.
I would love to see an Orion subterfuqe storyline that shows what they are really up to and brought to Jmpok to become a part of the faction with Orion flavored rewards and PoV.
I would also love to see a Nauscican mini storyline of missions that offers the same.
Such a series of missions would both feed the fans of those races and give a better image of the KDF being a loose allaince of races instead of a fed faction clone with spiky bits.
R.I.P
I love those ideas. I want to see more of the going on's regarding the Orions, Gorn, Nausiccans, Lethians, Fersians and all of them.
As for sub-factions, the OP actually gave me an idea I will float: Species ships avalable for that species. Not everyone has purchased the Orion, Gorn, or Nausicaan ships. To whet their appetites, species should be able to aquire a "stripped down" version of their ships at the T2-T4 levels, and ONLY their species version with the ship token in addition to the standard KDF ships. Of course, if a play had purchased the C-store versions, they could still claim them regardless of species.
The ships would be to the C-store versions what the non C-store refits of the T2-T4 ships are. The Saber, Nova, Akira, Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid, Qul'dun, Norgh, Qorgh, K'T'inga, K'Tang, and Pach all have one less console and one less BOFF power; the "stripped down" species ships likewise would be weaker. Also, there would be NO console on these versions. Also, these weaker versions would NOT be accessable except to their respective species.
As I understand it someone wanted the Kzinti in STO but something went sideways in negotiations, but what I know could be completely wrong too.
For them joining the KDF look to the animated episode "The Slaver Weapon" as I understand it, the Kzinti Hegemony lost a war with the federation and ended up as a protectorate limited to police ships, so I can see them joining the KDF out for revenge.
Well, personally, one way to look at that, is they're getting too stretched thin, and have subjugated too many differing kingdoms/empires, to get away with treating them all as incapable of being warriors, and only fit for menial labourers. As well, specifically to the Orions, heck, sure the Orions did ask to become part of the Empire, however, if they had thought they would be treated as garbage, I think they would either have gone off on their own (Orion mini empire anyone?), or the Klin would really have a bad criminal element, acting against, and sabotaging, every facet of their Empire (and the Orions are fully capable of doing just that).
Whereas, with the current status, all the differing races that are currently capable under KDF laws and regulations, of becoming ships' crew and commanders, have a stake in seeing the KDF prosper.
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Well, technically they've only subjugated one 'empire' recently, that being the Gorn Hegemony. The Orions are more like allies than subject species. The Letheans are little more than mercenaries who don't have full citizenship. The Nausicaans were somehow subjugated along with the Gorn, though I generally view them as having the same status as Letheans. I don't even know what the backstory is supposed to be for the Ferasans.
When the Klingons started expanding from Qo'noS, they conquered many alien races that happened to be in the way. There are likely many subject races, they just aren't seen in the Klingon Defense Force, and they don't mix a whole lot with the ruling species (Klingons).
As for the Empire getting stretched too thin. . .doubtful. Not when you consider how the KDF operates. The skill of the average KDF conscript/volunteer doesn't match that of a trained officer in Starfleet (Ensign or above), and probably doesn't match the skill of most Starfleet non-coms (trained engineers, w/e). They're trained to fight hand-to-hand (boarding, invading planets, etc) and utilize most Klingon technology they'll likely come across. That opens the labor pool significantly, because they don't have to go through a 4-year training course like Starfleet personnel have to. It takes an enemy like the Dominion to really stretch the military capability of the Klingon Empire.
Ambassador S'taass, what do you have to say to that idea?
"He knows nothing about Honour!"
I couldn?t resist!
What I realy want is for Cryptic to break with doctrine. Say with the Voth. It is pretty clear that they are simply taking what was presented in Voyager and running with it. It feels like classic boring humanwank fanfiction.
I would realy love it if we would find out the the Voyager crew were wrong about the Voth origin (so they are actually natural to their Quadrant in space and any resemblance with dinousaurs is pure coincidence) and would most assuredly rejoice at some J'mpok love, fed tears would be a welcome bonus
Cryptic could do a hell of a lot with that blank slate if they wanted.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Yeah, a Lethean sci-heavy escort would be nifty. Or a Lethean science ship. Some storyline episodes giving the Lethean species a bit of substance would be nice, too.
For example, I think having a free ship model at each tier for each of the species within the KDF is a pipedream, considering it's taking us near 2 years to get a single T5 ship. I am also extremely doubtfull about separate storylines for those species since it seems that the focus from now on is on crossfaction content (model that I don't really like), although I'd love Cryptic to prove me wrong and hit us with that thunder from a clear sky. hehe
Having the rumors that dStahl is working on new KDF content, I certainly hope they prove me wrong and show us that even if most end-game is unified, we can expect a couple of those amazing faction specific missions every now and then which would be amazing and I for one would be very gartefull if we get this.
What I think we can realisticaly expect to get at a certain point in time is the following:
- A species specific bridge pack in the C-Store (3 bridges - Orion/Nausicaan/Gorn)
- A pair of canon Klingon costumes in the C-Store, and aditional species specific costumes in the lobi store (and only if we ask a lot for this)
- Adjustments to Boff skils that would enable the KDF to have at least some selection of space Boff traits (probably will come together with Fed. Boff adjustments)
- Species specific conversations - now this is a tricky one, while I really can't see the devs. going back and re-doing all of the KDF missions to fit each of the species present, I do believe that it's possible in future (especially KDF specific) content this to be implemented. From what I've heard, the new Federation tutorial dialogue is created in a way that takes into account the species you're playing, something that is also quite new and rare on the Federation side. That gives me the faith that maybe the same could happen in any future KDF content with the KDF species.
Other than that, I do like the idea about the species specific Captain and Boff skills which would get somekind of synergy bonuses in the away team or if the ship you're flying is a species specific ship from the same race as your Captain. I really like this, this would be cool as a unique element for the KDF because the KDF is more of an loose alliance of species with similar current interests unlike the Federation where the planets apply for membership and form one single government.
I think the devs. would do well to take a serious look at this idea, this is something that could bring a new exciting and fun element to the KDF, improve the sales of the species specific ships in the C-Store as well as a nice adition in the RP department.
What I think should have been done (will never happen, though) is that every ally/vassal to the Klingon Empire got their own social zone, e.g. Homeworld/Space station with it's own short missions that explain why the F you are "member" of the Empire. Every people should have their own vessels, of course a Nausicaan playr could purchae the other ship as well but the social zone's shipyard would distribute unique ship(s) for every ally species.
The Klingon Empire just doesn't work like a red federation would with all the shared instances. You would especially not see a Gorn ambassador talking in Klingon cliches or Orions caring about the whole warrior's honour.
The KDF faction is a major TRIBBLE-up for every single fan of it's portrayed subfactions. Honestly, who wanted to play an Orion wearing a Klingon uniform, commanding Klingon ships and be adressed as such?
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There's a difference in fixing a major problem and causing harm which the Prime Directive is supposed to stop.
In the instance of Kirk and Co, the prime directive had already been broken. They were duty bound to fix the damage.
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This
And I would love to learn more about the true motives of the Orions. Or how loyal are the Gorn and consider the Nausicaans their little agreement with the KDF advantageous ?
Having standard versions of our minor race's ships would be very easy. Minus one console slot, knocking down one bridge officer one rank and removing the special console/hangar pet.
At least I could live without any new skin for those ships.
The effort for doing so is minimal.
The prefixes are already available, but race specific ranks are missing.
Way more complicated would be new storylines (say 1-20) for the 3 KDF allies/vassals. And those races would need their own homeworlds, right ? A Nausicaan asteroid base, how cool whould that be ?
But unfortunately this would require tons of dev time.
Maybe the last issue could be circumvened by just adding embassies to Qonos ?
Otherwise I could just quote Angrytarg's post. He sums it up perfectly.
I agree that would have been the best way. I doubt we'll ever really get there, but they could take some baby steps in that direction.
What they COULD do, eventually, as part of an Iconian invasion storyline, would be to start creating some of those homeworlds and use them to move that plot thread forward. All they need is a good excuse to do it that fits with their plans.
Once there were homeworlds for the vassal sub-factions, it could open the door for some of what you're talking about.
Well, me. I developed my Orion's bio specifically with that kind of thing in mind. I wanted her to feel more like a Warrior Princess with specific ties to the Klingon culture.
But it doesn't feel as if there is much room for the Orion Syndicate as a functional part of the Empire and not a whole lot of plot development around that uneasy relationship.
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The only real way I can see the plot going with the Orions and the KDF is down the path of the Orions pulling the strings of the higher ups within the great houses and maybe the chancellor's himself.
I suppose they could tie the Iconians in that way with them manipulating the Orion Syndicate to exert control on the KDF hence all the big push for the war with Starfleet and the Gorn and so on.
...*runs*
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Basically, at some point in the early game (possibly not when you roll your character, but after a thematically appropriate mission), you'd be presented with a choice. You could pledge your unwavering allegiance to the KDF, join the Gorn resistance as a sleeper agent, align yourself with the Orion Syndicate, etc.
You would be able to choose only one of these, and your choice would have subtle effects on your gameplay experience (nothing drastic, as I'm sure Cryptic would have little interest in writing full missions for a segment of a faction). Maybe some alternative dialogue here and there, and a tiered gear/ship progression a la the reputation system.
Romulans could choose between being loyal Republicans or Tal Shiar sleeper agents. Starfleet officers could choose between openly supporting or rebelling against Section 31.
The nature of the Klingon faction opens itself to far more options, though.
Every one of the sub-species has its own homeworld with its own people and starships. Vulcans have their own. Gorn as well. Same with Rigelian, Nausicaan, Trill, etc. There's nothing stopping us continuity-wise from being able to start the game on one of their homeworlds and pilot a species-exclusive ship while still being loyal to the greater faction.
Nothing continuity-wise that is... though development-wise and money-wise, there's probably a great deal standing in the way. Doing this would mean not only putting more development into the maps each sub-faction's home planet, but it would directly endanger some of the C-store's(least popular) ships(if done poorly...)
Not to mention that the STO devs seem to want to follow a storyline. One that doesn't involve that faceless protagonist as anything other than whomever starts at Starfleet Academy, as a first officer on a B'rel, or a colonist on Virinat.
It's a shame that the devs don't want to expand this game into something more. It IS a great game, and I am personally appreciative of everything the devs are doing for it. But it just seems like a very awesome fraction of a much greater game...
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That's why I feel the best sub-faction for Starfleet officers would be to align with traditional Starfleet Intelligence or Section 31.
It's true that some Federation species have fielded their own ships, but (I think) we only saw them in Enterprise - ancient history. Since then, there have been references to, for example, ships with all-Vulcan crews, but those ships have been portrayed as standard Starfleet designs (I think).
Not to say your idea couldn't work...it just might require some additional narrative hoops to jump through.
Personally, I think it's absurd that Starfleet only maintains one training Academy...can you imagine how huge that place would have to be? :eek:
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It's all pretty inconsistent, but my sense has always been that a Federation world has jurisdiction over its own local security/defense, while Starfleet handles anything on an interstellar level.
Except for Earth, which seems to have turned everything over to Starfleet.
Maybe it was just my denial that Starfleet is the be-all-end-all of the Federation.
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