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Scimitar In ISE (I lol'd)
xapocalypseponyx
Member Posts: 577 Arc User
I flew with someone who had a properly built Scimitar for the first time tonight. Played ISE. He lead the way. I casually made my way to the first encounter. It was pretty much over by the time I got there. He lead the way to the left transformer. Didn't really have time to shoot much of anything, as the cube, generators, transformer, spheres all exploded rather quickly. 10% rule? lol Don't need that anymore. The reinforcements were slaughtered.
Repeat right side. Gate? Gone. Tac cube, I got some shots on it before it blew. Honestly, the rest of us were just there to fill the roster. The Scimi could have easily soloed the whole event. Did KASE and CSE as well. Not even worth describing. Where ever the Scimi went, everything exploded in seconds.
Congratulations team Cryptic. You've made ships that can solo all end game PvE content. No need for a team, other than to get the match started. My question, why? Why all of this insane firepower?
And what now? Do we have elite, end game content that is downright embarrassingly easy (not to mention damned boring) or do we raise the bar to challenge the new line of super-ships and fully show the chasm that now exists between them and the outdated (yet still full price) ships of yore?
For what it's worth, my vote is to raise that bar. I'd rather be challenged in my old, tired C-store ships of yesterday, than be stuck with the game as-is.
Repeat right side. Gate? Gone. Tac cube, I got some shots on it before it blew. Honestly, the rest of us were just there to fill the roster. The Scimi could have easily soloed the whole event. Did KASE and CSE as well. Not even worth describing. Where ever the Scimi went, everything exploded in seconds.
Congratulations team Cryptic. You've made ships that can solo all end game PvE content. No need for a team, other than to get the match started. My question, why? Why all of this insane firepower?
And what now? Do we have elite, end game content that is downright embarrassingly easy (not to mention damned boring) or do we raise the bar to challenge the new line of super-ships and fully show the chasm that now exists between them and the outdated (yet still full price) ships of yore?
For what it's worth, my vote is to raise that bar. I'd rather be challenged in my old, tired C-store ships of yesterday, than be stuck with the game as-is.
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they added damage specific 25.5s with the crit or critD bonus. dear lord
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Bwahahahaha (ships exploding as Scimitar re-cloaks)
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
hell the scim doesnt even uncloak :P (Cloaked Barrage)
they are destroyed before they even know what hit them
Times five consoles with a crit rate from all those Superior Operative boffs. I wonder if 60k DPS 'looks like' anything, or if its too fast for the human eye to follow?
News flash people, Fed and KDF tactical captains are doing this in any ship with a commander tactical station, the recluse, 1000 day ships, JHDC, JHHEC and many other ships are just as bad.
It all revolves around attack pattern beta and how beams have less damage drop off and with careful piloting can hit specifically all the targets you need. Not everyone can get a scimitar and hit that level, the gear and the spec will only take you so far, after that it's about positioning and when to activate your tactical captain abilities.
This is the product of tactical stacking and making everything damage related in any form the domain of 1 type of captain and one type of boff seating. Then having everything revolve around blowing up ships.
If you want to see just how far people are pushing it check this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ7NGSYzTHo
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Maybe not specifically, no. And I agree with what you wrote, but that was a sobering demonstration of the problem. It was one thing to not be dealing as much damage as the new shiny ship of the month. With builds like this, you almost can't even participate. Or worse still, is if everyone is flying builds like this. It's going to become a matter of, what's the point? Cryptic is going to DPS themselves and all of us out of a game.
I'm raising a new Sci character and finding I'm quite enjoying it. The battles at lower levels are actually battles. They're fun! I just got to where I can join the Mirror event, when it comes around. It's quite a different experience from the mega-slaughter at level 50. Ships having to actually work together. Cross healing, focusing fire. It took a while to clear out all of the ships and a bit more to finally take down the dreadnaught. It wasn't a race, it was a battle. And even though I've done it a hundred times, I found the experience enjoyable.
Then I played the afore mentioned matches, in which I was little more than a spectator. No teamwork. No saving the day by throwing a life saving heal on an escort under fire. No need to focus the team on one target. Almost no need to be there.
As it stands now, I already have two sets of ships. One for the end game speed trials and one for doing stuff alone, which tend to be lower geared and less uber ships. One, because they are often my favorite ships, like the classic Ambassador class and two, so I can have some semblance of a battle and not have everything explode the instant I fire.
That was an unexpected wall of text. Suffice it to say, I fear for the future of STO.
Science ships don't matter and neither do cruisers really though they are ahead of science ships.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Not a reset of the ships, a reset of the players. They need to get the new batch in after all, non jaded players with totally untapped wallets!
Using BFAW weapons aura eptw a2b APB and my tac powers pve is now stupidly easy I only run about 10% crit I can sit under a cube In ISE elite and with 3 runs of BFAW everything including the cube is gone my build is far from optimised
Not here to be big headed as there are far better players than me out there just here to really voice my concern as this shouldn't be happening surely
I have to admit, I tend to stick my captains in their related ship classes. I also tend to put phasers on Feds and disruptors on Klinks. I'm just weird like that. Anyway, I don't have any super-uber ships, but I did drop my Fed tac captain in an Odyssey and set him up with some purplely mkxi phasers. Of course, in an Odyssey, you're limited to a Lt. Cmdr universal for tactical. So, only APB II.
I won't say I was doing the kind of damage I saw last night, but yeah 8 beams and the tools of a Tac was still pretty devastating. This also goes towards what others have been saying about torpedoes. I still use them on some escorts, because I think I benefit from the damage spike, but on cruisers, they are obsolete. Except for purposes of nostalgia. But, I digress.
Honestly, I don't know. They may have taken us to a point of no return. They've given the ability to have ridiculous damage output. People have paid to have ridiculous damage output. People are not going to be happy if that changes.
However, that would be a start. At this point, we are so well geared, even episode and foundry missions on elite should be at an ESTF level of difficulty. And then, up from there. It really is the only logical solution. If the challenge stays static, but the players just grow more and more outrageous, well the outcome is obvious and already here.
And one result will be everyone needing to step it up for the new end game. Unfortunately, this will not only widen the gap between players, but also equipment. Buying something like the Galaxy Dreadnaught will be the equivalent of buying a TOS Enterprise. Not something you'll want to bring to the DPS party.
Finally, if they could find a way to separate the classes more. My Tac in a cruiser was every bit as durable as my Engy, but was capable of far more damage. What was the point of choosing engineer again?
my scis and engies are hitting ridiculous numbers too. all it takes is a commander tac or lt comm tac for APB 2/3
its not just tac captains man. its tac boff abilities more than anything. APA/FOMM/TI are not the universal culprits. An argument could be made that engies cant do this, but a sci with 130 aux sensor scans does just as much damage for the duration as an APA/FOMM stack vs hull at least.
sensor scan + APB = LOL
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I was flying my FAHCR, another guy was in an FACR, but the leader - figuratively and literally, he did the most DPS - was in a Scimi. ACT analysis of CombatLog placed him at 16K (11K + 5K pet spam), with me at 11K and the other cruiser at 10K (the last two players were basically dead weight).
So..ISE..PUG...completed by 3 players...in 4:42 (10:18 left on the clock)...with a Scimi leading the way.
Sounds about right...
RCK
FED: Matt Torell, Lavinia Molinero, Zindox
KDF: Che'ko Tenda'All
ROM: Ecural Mendak
Exactly all talk....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
that is less then my sci in a vesta ^^
power creep did not catch up with him.
also, the reason why the scimitairs seem OP, is because they are. as far as ship balance goes, they are the strongest ships in the game, no arguing. and it does not hurt them, that they are on the romulan side, with stacking romulan operatives on each boff slots, while feds and klinks only get the tac slots
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Honestly the whole thing just makes the game less fun. When I tried using a ship that way (Excelsior in my case, so not even a Scim), things were over so fast just from spacebar mashing there wasn't any fun to be had. Took longer to get a group than run the mission. (Happy to be back in my Odyssey) And if you aren't running one of these things, build with something other than DPS in mind, why even leave the spawn point when there's nothing for you to do as everything's dead in seconds? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Plus, as much as I hate using the phrase 'pay to win' as a copout, in some cases it is. I've had fleetmates that, upon buying some of these ships, double their numbers overnight, just swapping gear from their old ships to new. (Then get real egotistical, like its their amazing talent making the difference) When a single purchase can make that large a difference so quickly, I'm not sure what else you'd call it.
What to do though, since its not any one thing causing it so much as compounding creep here and there amplifying, and most of the things on their own are at-least-moderately fair? You don't want to nerf the people that are just using one or two pieces of gear, make beams useless again or kill the A2B cycling that so many regular cruisers use. But on the other hand, they continue down this power creep / p2w path, its just gonna get worse and worse and create further stratification. People who do spend the money will roflstomp everything the game has, while those that can't or won't just have to hope their teammates have enough class to dial it back so everyone gets to have some fun (unlikely given the egos involved). Makes for a really boring game when there's The Right Way, and Everything Else. Plus if they buff new content to account for these ships, people not running them are kinda screwed.
I wonder how hard it would be to implement compounding nerfs, things that taken individually are only like 5% off the top here and there, but when stacked together would take some of these overkill ships and cut them in half? Or maybe a stacking limit, like only strongest debuff applies, or highest shield res, or single largest energy boost, or highest level of Operative, or things like that? Hmm, what else?
Which ship? Mine? The Scimi in the pug I mentioned? Or were you referring to the OP's mystery Scimi?
RCK
Wait someone is asking for proof? Did you not see the video I linked where 4 scimitars and a recluse just completely pwn ISE?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Aux2Battery Scimis are no rocket science. The setup I used back in those days I frapsed the video mentioned above is: http://i.imgur.com/Lb3DObk.jpg
Skills: http://i.imgur.com/IODR8v3.jpg
All arrays are [CrtD]x3. My current build uses AP:O3, BFAW3, AP:B1 and TT1, plasma arrays (w/ the experimental one from rep system), vr Mk XII consoles and T5 in all rep systems. I still need to get some marks for the romulan engine to further boost the attack patterns.
Some guys even stopped using Aux2Bat, switched to fleet AP weapons and still do about the same or even more DPS. They loose some survival abilities, but hey, somehow you need to get that GDF running.
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
there was a vid? i swear that stf was over so fast that i blinked and missed it heheh
I seriously doubt we're looking at the same parse statistics. My guess is you're looking at specific engagements and identifying your best combat events, whereas I'm quoting the average over the duration of the mission. No compensation for "dead" periods, travel time (we did one side at a time), etc.
Again, it was effectively a 3 player team completing the mission with nearly 10.5 mins left on the optional clock. It was also a PUG, meaning no prior coordination or TS communication. And, finally, we had two dead weights on the team who were contributing virtually nothing to the DPS output.
I should revisit that CombatLog (saved it for posterity) and try to tease out the best engagements to see just how OP things really got. I know I've hit 30-40K at certain points (opening cube/spheres engagement), so I'm thinking I might be underreporting my own output.
RCK
Actually I was referring to the ship you mentioned, but I would also be interested in yours. Always good to see ship configurations as an inspiration for my own vessels.
FED: Matt Torell, Lavinia Molinero, Zindox
KDF: Che'ko Tenda'All
ROM: Ecural Mendak
Unless it means something else for your settings, that 5k wasnt done by you.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Here are two examples of my parses. One shows me at 10k, and one shows me at 13k. Note that the amount of damage dealt is pretty much the same in both instances.
The difference is that in the 13k parse, the instance was much shorter (2 minutes shorter, in fact) due to the fact the people I was running with did a lot more damage themselves.
So when you see people doing 20-30k DPS think about that.
Ive ran with a group of the 20k+ DPS guys and did only 10k myself. Which is the actual level of my personal DPS? Hard to say, isnt it? From what i can tell, if the instance runs anything less than 6 minutes, I am almost assured to be over 10k. Anything longer and its a real struggle.
http://i.imgur.com/bkZeysF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zw3Aw3p.jpg
Oh and here is one of my KDF rommie alt (a 3 minute 20 second ISE run) with some of those 11-20k dps guys.
http://i.imgur.com/2KJRKVU.jpg
So I mean, one standard really needs to be kept, else youre just talking about a very relative thing.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
nope, my best results are around 17k dps over a whole run of ISE. 15k is my avg, and in the past few days, after my 3 months break, I have not gone below 12k (and I was changing up builds all over the place)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Here's my build:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=rcktacfahcrevt_0
Note: The above is optimized for PvP play. If I want to go full-on PvE, I'll swap out APO for APB.
Ran this build through ISE the other day - again, in a PUG - pulled 14K DPS average across the mission. Also tanked the gate and take cube without breaking a sweat.
And as for efficacy in PvP, just ask around Ker'rat.
RCK - a.k.a. Jacob Lightener, Captain of the FAHCR U.S.S. "BFAW DEM Hacker"
That's not really addressing the root of the problem, is it? I mean, sure, it could end up helping PvP in the long run - if everything is done or tweaked to be right eventually - and anything that does that gets my vote, but it won't really help the state of end-game pve because the net result will simply be that all classes flying all ship types will be able to roflstomp the content in equal or equivalent fashion. Essentially exacerbating the problem by extending PvE roflstompability to all. Very democratic, but not really the right move.
While it's true that lots of NPC's use Captain and Boff powers - Mogai ApA, Mirror TBR/GW, etc, it's not nearly enough and I think one answer would be to make sure that NPC's do far more of that kind of thing, they should do more cross healing, subnuking, sensor scrambling, etc. I have been playing a long time, I have always played through the solo stuff on Elite, and I have never not ONCE been Sensor Scanned by a NPC, as one example.
Part of the problem I think is that whenever even the tiniest of baby steps are taken in that kind of direction, the cries of NNNNNNEEERRRRRRFFFFFITTTT!!! can be heard be heard as far away as Andromeda and Cryptic pretty much does as it is told. Just look at NWS, the recent nerf to Borg Sphere EPtS and how the Tholians don't disable your subsystems quite so much - if ever -any more, if you need examples. There are a ton of other things I could mention, but I think the point is made.
If we forget vanity stuff and foundry missions, which I think are not related to this discussion, I think they're scared to take many of the critical steps needed to keep (long-time) existing players interested in much of the end-game content. I for one am bored out of my mind with most of the PvE combat in the game, not because my ship is uber, not because I am 'oh so great at the game', but more because I have played the end-game stuff so many times, I now know what almost every NPC ship in the game is going to do 5 minutes before it does it.
It's time to put the 'I' back into 'AI'.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.