test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Weapon System Efficiency Not Giving 25%
sohtoh
Member Posts: 620 Arc User
I posted in another thread, about what I thought was correct information about the Weapon System Efficiency Comm Array. However, another player, has stated that they are only getting 20% from DHCs and Turrets.
Original thread located here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=13022321&posted=1#post13022321
I had thought that the ingame system was rounding up the 25% drain. But if Thissler is getting 12 reduced to 9.6 and 10 reduced to 8, and 8 becomes 6.4; then I was wrong about the rounding... and that can only mean that the Weapon System Efficiency is bugged.
Original thread located here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=13022321&posted=1#post13022321
I had thought that the ingame system was rounding up the 25% drain. But if Thissler is getting 12 reduced to 9.6 and 10 reduced to 8, and 8 becomes 6.4; then I was wrong about the rounding... and that can only mean that the Weapon System Efficiency is bugged.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Post edited by sohtoh on
0
Comments
Here you can see on video the tooltips.
May have to fast forward a bit if you don't want to see the entire show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjQdr65Dz8&list=TLU0VK9915msuPzxE9XykH6O9WrHQUhxUy
go to the six minute mark.
Hi guys,
I thought I would pop in and explain how this mechanic works. It functions identically how recharge reduction works. The formula used to calculate recharge or power cost reduction is:
Base Value/(1+(Sum of Bonuses))
Let's take Beam: Overload for example. This power's power cost is 50. Command - Weapon System Efficiency offers a 25% (.25) cost reduction. So, we're looking at:
50/(1+(.25)) = 40
So, in other words this is not a bug.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Reading this and looking at this tooltip and at several other percentage related reductions explains alot why most People don't get the expected values as the tooltips are just missleading.
Tooltip sugest a reduction of 25% to weapon drain simple math actualy if you consider the drain to be 100% a reduction would result in just 75% am i right?
So the formula would look like that
50*0.75=37.5
so now we are in a bit of a tight spot either the frmula has to be adjusted or the tooltips rephrased as it is just missleading.
So why does this break the general rule of thumb that percents aren't effected by diminishing returns and magnitudes are and why is it not labeled in plain sight that this is the case when it doesn't adhere to the same predictable nature as most other percents do?
I could be wrong but I think that would actually be a reduction of 50% if the sum of your advertised reductions was 100%.
50/(1+(1))=25
All the math in the tooltips is bad. Horrible even. If a tooltip lists a percentage you can practically guarantee that it's being used wrongly. Percentages are representative of a portion of a whole. Therefore it is flatly impossible for a percentage value to exceed 100%. Mathematically speaking anyway.
They really do need to get an actuary or at least somebody who majored in math to go over all their tooltips to make sure they give mathematically accurate summations. At least then people will be asking sensible questions like "What does this number mean?" instead of whining about "It's not giving me 500% increased damage like it says!"
(And yes, I'm being very serious about the bad math and the need to revise it in the tooltips)
STO is absolutely terrible at informing players what their ships, characters, powers and equipment actually do. Having literally every data point in-game go through a number of derived stat iterations before arriving at the final statistical impact does nothing but confuse people.
I think they should create a new type of tool tip that we can enable that reveals the formulas necessary for us to figure out these end results on our own. People who just want to get an approximation or a general idea what something does can still use the existing tool tips and those who want to know more before buying something or while tweaking their build can have more advanced and correct information at their fingertips if they are willing to put in a little work.
We don't always get the answers we want when we ask questions. Thanks for the quick reply. It may have been better to have been a bit more ambiguous with the amount of drain reduction to avoid confusion.
In my eyes and the eyes of every rational person, that is a 20% reduction, not a 25%.
40 is 80% of 50, period. To go back to simple grade school math:
It's a 20 percent reduction in laymens terms.
You should fix the tool tip or adjust the formula to 50/(1+(.33)) = 37.59 which is a little more than 75% of 50
The thing is, this is what makes me so angry about this game sometimes. The efficient BOff and Captain traits get me angry the same way. It's useless, only add's one power level at a setting of 25. Any power setting above 25 and the addition is not a whole number.... NOT A WHOLE NUMBER. Doesn't even get reflected in the UI let alone being completely useless. The fact that the Rommy traits are so potent and the efficient trait is crapped on gets me even more hot. I've had several devs tell me the efficient trait is not broken, well it works, but it's useless. I'm going to get on a tangent here...
weapon power drain / (1 + (aura + warp core drain resist))
which would result in:
12 weapon power drain = 8.27
10 weapon power drain = 7.40
8 weapon power drain = 5.51
then this statement "?The Weapon System Efficiency Command reduces power drain from weapons by 25% for the cruiser and nearby allies. " is incorrect
your formula is one for diminishing returns that set the max reduction to be only 50%
here is a table that lays it out. let's go with the beam overload example. the cost of that is 50
Sum of Bonuses / New power cost / % reduction
100% / 25.00 / -50%
95% / 25.64 / -49%
90% / 26.32 / -47%
85% / 27.03 / -46%
80% / 27.78 / -44%
75% 28.57 / -43%
70% / 29.41 -41%
65% / 30.30 / -39%
60% / 31.25 / -38%
55% / 32.26 / -35%
50% / 33.33 / -33%
45% / 34.48 / -31%
40% / 35.71 / -29%
35% / 37.04 / -26%
30% / 38.46 / -23%
25% / 40.00 / -20%
20% / 41.67 / -17%
15% / 43.48 / -13%
10% / 45.45 / -9%
5% / 47.62 / -5%
0% / 50.00 / 0%
so basically, no matter how many buffs you get, you can only reduce your power drain by 50%
AND this buff is ONLY a 20% real reduction in power drain. you should change the copy to reflect that because there is no way to achieve a 25% reduction. - unless you stack another 10% buff on top.
the statement should just read "?The Weapon System Efficiency Command reduces power drain from for the cruiser and nearby allies. " THAT would be correct.
"oh, look. Star Trek fans know how to use a calculator!"
what other buffs work this way?
Welcome to Cryptic math, where a 100% reduction in X thing is really 50% because:
1/(1+1) = 0.50
Personally, I hate Cryptic math. Makes everything not work as you expect it too.
And if a dev reads this comment, FIX THE DEFLECTOR OFFICER DOFF for God's sake!
If the reduction is a 0.25 modifier and that results in a 20% overall reduction, then just say its 20% in the tooltip. There is NO permutation of english in which saying you have a 25% reduction actually means 20%. Don't subject the end-user to your misleading math when you could so easily give us accurate and intuitive information for once.
As far as I know, there is no such general rule. Each stat differs on a case-by-case basis. The most I can say is that the same formula is used to convert damage resistance rating to damage resistance for every damage type.
There are two problems that are quite prevalent when it comes to Cryptic's tooltips. The first is that "x% reduction to y" often means "y is divided 1/(1+x)". The second is that "x% increase to y" often means "y is increased by x * b", where b is a hidden base value that is never shown in the UI.