I think it can be agreed by most that cannons were always more powerful than beams, simply because of how they, and their mods, work. Crf allows for ALL your cannons to fire faster, while using up very little energy, thereby allowing you to maintain a very high dps rate. This, plus the manuverability of escorts, allows players to focus their fire on 1 shield facing and keep pummeling it. Even without this mod, cannons do far more damage than beams.
Beam overload allows for 1, and only 1, beam to fire a single overcharged burst, which drains your weapon power by nearly half on its own. So, immediately after that initial hit, your stuck with doing about half the damage with your remaining beams until your next volley.
Granted, we can put up to 8 beams on a target, vs 5 cannons, but escort manuverability essentially negates this by being able to stay behind the beam boat and still keeping all 5 cannons on target. Now, imagine an escort that can use a buffed BO to knock down a shield facing, then immediately blasts away with buffed cannons and CRF. Doesn't sound too fair to me.
Update to the Tac Consoles mentioned in today's patch notes. Take a look when you can
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
In a game where max DPS is king, why would someone spend fleet credits and dilithium on tac consoles that are worse than the ones already in game. On another note, thanks for keeping tac console farming a profitable venture.
In a game where max DPS is king, why would someone spend fleet credits and dilithium on tac consoles that are worse than the ones already in game. On another note, thanks for keeping tac console farming a profitable venture.
Don't underestimate the crit, 1.6%, only one console has higher and that is 1.8% and you can only have one.
Not everyone can afford MK XII's...I know I couldn't afford them unless I sold my JHDN and JHAS
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The new values make those consoles good, not vastly better then the existing ones, but still better, especially for romulans that can push a higher ctrh rate then others.
The higher potential crtd makes more then up for the loss in raw dps.
Changing the fleet tac console to energy specific is great but the damage bonus is still too low.
Fleet mk xii @ +25.5% (not including the crit bonus) vs a rare mk xi @ +26.2% and a very rare mk xi @ +28.1%
I can understand them not being +30% but they should at least be the same base damage as rare mk xi if not very rare mk xi.
I also think the bonus crit is a little on the low side too.
and why not make them better?
Embassy science consoles give better bonus than purple science consoles, fleet engineering consoles give bigger bonus than regular purples.
I think the experimental proton weapon will only be buffed by generic damage consoles. I suppose that will lead some people to use the godawful fleet tac consoles, right?
I think the experimental proton weapon will only be buffed by generic damage consoles. I suppose that will lead some people to use the godawful fleet tac consoles, right?
Read the Tribble patch notes, the Fleet Tac consoles are not going to be generic. They will be energy type specific. Looks like they will have less base damage bonus for more Crtd/Crth. This makes all the EC people spent loading out their ships with XII VR tac console not a total loss. Still, some of the PVP players will want these to up their spike damage and alpha strike damage. Also this will make the FOTM FAW-A2B-DEM cruisers have more bite if they have geared their build toward crit.
Read the Tribble patch notes, the Fleet Tac consoles are not going to be generic. They will be energy type specific.
You're the one who needs to do the reading.
Spire Fleet Holding Vulnerability Locator/Exploiter Tactical Consoles.
* Slightly reduced the effectiveness of weapon type (+Beam, +Cannon, +Mine, +Torpedo) bonuses on these consoles (25.5% to 22.3%).
* Added damage type versions of these consoles (+Phaser, +Disruptor, etc.) that add a 25.5% bonus.
* There are versions of these consoles for each damage type.
The 22.3% consoles will still buff the experimental proton weapon.
So now we have 22.3% weapon type consoles and 25.5% energy type consoles. I think this is fair, it gets rid of the rainbow boats we knew were coming because thats a huge loss in DPS.
Now i do feel that the energy type ones should be 26.2%% because that is on par with standard consoles. I don't think they should be any higher than that because it would just be too OP, and i'm also fine with the 25.5%
i'd say probably 90%, if not higher of players can't and will never be able to afford 30% consoles. The majority of them use 28.1% and granted you take a 10% loss in damage switching to 4 of these, BUT you'll gain up to 6.4% crit rate which MORE than makes up for that. Or you can gain 32% crit severity. or a mix of the two (what i'm planning on doing 2x crth 2x crtd) either of which makes up for the loss in overall dps for the extra crit, in my opinion.
I almost wish they didn't make them energy specific though because it was going to be nice to just have one set of consoles for all my weapons types but i understand the reasonings, i'll just have to pick one last type because if these are the same cost as the other consoles it will be very expensive fleet credit wise to get multiple sets.
Unless you've got weapons with all bonuses to crit is it really worth getting these consoles? will the little +1.8% really make that much difference? I've got all rare mk xi consoles and I'll loose a little dos by switching to these.
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Unless you've got weapons with all bonuses to crit is it really worth getting these consoles? will the little +1.8% really make that much difference? I've got all rare mk xi consoles and I'll loose a little dos by switching to these.
IMO, if your a romulan with a huge crit boost already thanks to the operative boffs, these might not be worth it since you already have a great crit rate with boffs, captain and then weapons.
For FED/KDF that have no chance of reaching romulan crit rates these are worth it. And thats what i'm doing. i'm getting them for my fed but passing on my romulan since i already have a 17% crit rate on my rom compared to 10% on my fed (this is just from the stats and does not include acc bonus or other bonuses)
They should have left the weapon type consoles as they were, not nerfed them in order to add the energy specific ones. Why did it have to be one or the other? If someone wants a rainbow boat, let them have a rainbow boat. At least it will get people using tetryon and polaron weapons more instead of everyone going disruptor, antiproton, or plasma.
I think the experimental proton weapon will only be buffed by generic damage consoles. I suppose that will lead some people to use the godawful fleet tac consoles, right?
The experimental proton weapon is a turret. If you're going to waste all those marks and dilithium on a generic console just to buff a single turret, you have some serious ocd min-max compulsion issues.
The experimental proton weapon is a turret. If you're going to waste all those marks and dilithium on a generic console just to buff a single turret, you have some serious ocd min-max compulsion issues.
Not a turret, it has a 180% firing arc. Its closer to a cannon.
Although it has a +6% crit chance and +10% accuracy.
The experimental proton weapon is a turret. If you're going to waste all those marks and dilithium on a generic console just to buff a single turret, you have some serious ocd min-max compulsion issues.
My point was that since it's a damage type that can only be boosted by the generic spire consoles, it seems like Cryptic's way of saying "Hey guys, if you want to use this sweet new proton weapon, you can only buff it with the new and crappy generic consoles LOL!" Don't get me wrong, I never said it was a good idea.
The new energy specific fleet tactical consoles need to be 30% , no 25%. To match the "non fleet" ones.
I dont care if weapon type ones get 10%, or 30% boost at all.
No they don't. you have to balance the game for the fact that not everyone will have access to these.
30% and the chance/severity is way to much. It would also make romulans even more OP than they already are.
the 25.5% is a little low. it should go up to 26.2% as others have said which is a very rare mk x console. At the absolute most it should be 28.1% but even that is too close considering what you get for it.
You mean like they balanced the embassy and mine consoles to be clearly superior to everything else in their respective spheres of influence?
Your right that they didn't but they also add only a very minor bonus to what the original console was and once that did not benefit DPS (with the exception of plasma, but considering plasma didn't do much to effect PVP since most people have high plasma resist it didn't matter as much)
With these consoles, to keep them at 30%, or raise them, in addition to adding chance or severity would of increased the DPS of ships by more than Cryptic wants.
by dropping them to 25.5% you'll still be able to do more DPS than 4x 30% consoles, at least when you crit. And lets be honest here, maybe 5% at most of the players have 4-5x 30% consoles. the vast majority of players run 26.2% or 28.1% and at most will lose 10-12% damage but will now gain up to 6.4% crit chance or 32% severity. which more than makes up for the damage loss.
And in the end it does not matter. If you don't like them that stick with your 30% consoles, those of us who will never be able to afford the 100,000,000+ EC that most of them require to outfit a full ship will use these. And that number is low considering I've seen Phaser, Disruptor, Plasma, and Antiproton all hit 40 Mil for a single console. which would be 160 Million EC for only 4 consoles.
I'll gladly spend my 200k fleet credits and 35k diltihum on these.
Fleet gear is supposed to be better than drop gear. So at the least they should be +28.1% as thats the highest drop tac console and the crit severity and chance making them slightly better than MK XII purple +30%. But crits are more a tac escort alpha strike, no beam boat or sci using beams are comparable to an escort alpha strike and that makes the 25.5% less desired when they cost allot more than the 28.1% consoles but are comparable in overall DPS. Thats leaving whole builds behind with no benifit to getting the consoles as they are now. Thats leaving many players from having any desire to donate to the spire projects.
One of my beam boats has a 5.2% crit chance and 59% severity. Neither of those consoles will give it much of an increase in DPS if any at all.
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"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
yeah new consoles are to weak if other fleet consoles could be so much better then old one why this cant?
eng one give 40%turn +all resit while best old one give only 30% turn...think most of ppl who complain are ppl who sell current tac consoles on exchange for 30m+ so they dont wont for new consoles to be better to can still sell old ones for 30m+
No they don't. you have to balance the game for the fact that not everyone will have access to these.
No, they don't. They did not consider non fleet players when they made all sci and engi consoles obsolete? With all the defensive creep some offensive creep is welcome.
Both Science and Engineering consoles got a buff to there core function by 2% when they upgraded to ultrarare fleet versions, in addition to an extra bonus ability. Tactical consoles are the only ones getting hit with a nerf in exchange for there bonus.
Fleet tac consoles should be 32% damage increase just like engineering and science, but with a toned down bonus, maybe 1% CrtH or 5% CrtD. This would be inline with the fleet versions of other consoles.
Both Science and Engineering consoles got a buff to there core function by 2% when they upgraded to ultrarare fleet versions, in addition to an extra bonus ability. Tactical consoles are the only ones getting hit with a nerf in exchange for there bonus.
Fleet tac consoles should be 32% damage increase just like engineering and science, but with a toned down bonus, maybe 1% CrtH or 5% CrtD. This would be inline with the fleet versions of other consoles.
You are comparing apples to oranges, honestly. Consider that Sci and Eng consoles have many different potential functions (skill boosts for Science, ship stat boosts for Eng), as well as the fact that many of those console types were seen as underperforming. The trend Cryptic was looking at was one where people used their Sci/Eng slots for universal consoles, and then maxed out on Tac damage type consoles for DPS. Thus, the fleet Sci/Eng consoles had to compete not just with existing consoles of their types, but with things like the Borg Assimilated Console, etc.
The result was that they buffed the consoles in their primary job AND gave them a secondary buff as well. By making the consoles more versatile, they made them good enough to consider slotting in place of a lockbox or rep console. The fact that they made "normal" Sci and Eng consoles obsolete was largely irrelevant, since many people already sacrificed many of those slots for universals anyway.
Then we get to Tac consoles. For starters, virtually nobody slots universals in their Tac slots, so you don't have to worry about competing with those. Instead, you just have to compete with the current offerings. Now, that sounds easy, but unlike the other console types, Tac consoles don't have any versatility at all. They only increase damage, which makes them a no-brainer for players. Just slot the best possible damage increase, and you're done. You don't have to wonder if your ship would perform better with another Neutronium, or if you need better turn, or if you should keep your Universal in there, etc. It's just slot the biggest number, profit. This is bad for gameplay because it is boring, and bad for design because it means there aren't many avenues for improvement that don't just straight obsolete everything else.
So we end up with the current crop of consoles, which I think are simply fascinating. What they have done is basically boosted damage for people who understand how to maximize their benefits. In essence, the new consoles are a reward for people who have sufficient system mastery to make them work, which is an interesting bit of Dev psychology. The consoles might even be intended as a subtle kind of teaching tool - a way to prod more causal players into understanding the mechanics of damage better, instead of simply tossing on a bigger number and calling it a day. We'll see how successful it is - I'm hopeful that it works out, as I think it's actually a pretty solid design scheme. To paraphrase the old saying, though, you can lead a player to knowledge, but you can't make him think.
Comments
Beam overload allows for 1, and only 1, beam to fire a single overcharged burst, which drains your weapon power by nearly half on its own. So, immediately after that initial hit, your stuck with doing about half the damage with your remaining beams until your next volley.
Granted, we can put up to 8 beams on a target, vs 5 cannons, but escort manuverability essentially negates this by being able to stay behind the beam boat and still keeping all 5 cannons on target. Now, imagine an escort that can use a buffed BO to knock down a shield facing, then immediately blasts away with buffed cannons and CRF. Doesn't sound too fair to me.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Fleet mk xii @ +25.5% (not including the crit bonus) vs a rare mk xi @ +26.2% and a very rare mk xi @ +28.1%
I can understand them not being +30% but they should at least be the same base damage as rare mk xi if not very rare mk xi.
I also think the bonus crit is a little on the low side too.
≡/\≡
In a game where max DPS is king, why would someone spend fleet credits and dilithium on tac consoles that are worse than the ones already in game. On another note, thanks for keeping tac console farming a profitable venture.
Don't underestimate the crit, 1.6%, only one console has higher and that is 1.8% and you can only have one.
Not everyone can afford MK XII's...I know I couldn't afford them unless I sold my JHDN and JHAS
The higher potential crtd makes more then up for the loss in raw dps.
and why not make them better?
Embassy science consoles give better bonus than purple science consoles, fleet engineering consoles give bigger bonus than regular purples.
Read the Tribble patch notes, the Fleet Tac consoles are not going to be generic. They will be energy type specific. Looks like they will have less base damage bonus for more Crtd/Crth. This makes all the EC people spent loading out their ships with XII VR tac console not a total loss. Still, some of the PVP players will want these to up their spike damage and alpha strike damage. Also this will make the FOTM FAW-A2B-DEM cruisers have more bite if they have geared their build toward crit.
You're the one who needs to do the reading.
The 22.3% consoles will still buff the experimental proton weapon.
Thank you Cryptic! I am so happy to get these with a critical bonus, this new holding is going to be awesome.
This is what really made S8 that good for me.
Now i do feel that the energy type ones should be 26.2%% because that is on par with standard consoles. I don't think they should be any higher than that because it would just be too OP, and i'm also fine with the 25.5%
i'd say probably 90%, if not higher of players can't and will never be able to afford 30% consoles. The majority of them use 28.1% and granted you take a 10% loss in damage switching to 4 of these, BUT you'll gain up to 6.4% crit rate which MORE than makes up for that. Or you can gain 32% crit severity. or a mix of the two (what i'm planning on doing 2x crth 2x crtd) either of which makes up for the loss in overall dps for the extra crit, in my opinion.
I almost wish they didn't make them energy specific though because it was going to be nice to just have one set of consoles for all my weapons types but i understand the reasonings, i'll just have to pick one last type because if these are the same cost as the other consoles it will be very expensive fleet credit wise to get multiple sets.
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IMO, if your a romulan with a huge crit boost already thanks to the operative boffs, these might not be worth it since you already have a great crit rate with boffs, captain and then weapons.
For FED/KDF that have no chance of reaching romulan crit rates these are worth it. And thats what i'm doing. i'm getting them for my fed but passing on my romulan since i already have a 17% crit rate on my rom compared to 10% on my fed (this is just from the stats and does not include acc bonus or other bonuses)
The experimental proton weapon is a turret. If you're going to waste all those marks and dilithium on a generic console just to buff a single turret, you have some serious ocd min-max compulsion issues.
Not a turret, it has a 180% firing arc. Its closer to a cannon.
Although it has a +6% crit chance and +10% accuracy.
Fair enough
My point was that since it's a damage type that can only be boosted by the generic spire consoles, it seems like Cryptic's way of saying "Hey guys, if you want to use this sweet new proton weapon, you can only buff it with the new and crappy generic consoles LOL!" Don't get me wrong, I never said it was a good idea.
I dont care if weapon type ones get 10%, or 30% boost at all.
No they don't. you have to balance the game for the fact that not everyone will have access to these.
30% and the chance/severity is way to much. It would also make romulans even more OP than they already are.
the 25.5% is a little low. it should go up to 26.2% as others have said which is a very rare mk x console. At the absolute most it should be 28.1% but even that is too close considering what you get for it.
You mean like they balanced the embassy and mine consoles to be clearly superior to everything else in their respective spheres of influence?
Your right that they didn't but they also add only a very minor bonus to what the original console was and once that did not benefit DPS (with the exception of plasma, but considering plasma didn't do much to effect PVP since most people have high plasma resist it didn't matter as much)
With these consoles, to keep them at 30%, or raise them, in addition to adding chance or severity would of increased the DPS of ships by more than Cryptic wants.
by dropping them to 25.5% you'll still be able to do more DPS than 4x 30% consoles, at least when you crit. And lets be honest here, maybe 5% at most of the players have 4-5x 30% consoles. the vast majority of players run 26.2% or 28.1% and at most will lose 10-12% damage but will now gain up to 6.4% crit chance or 32% severity. which more than makes up for the damage loss.
And in the end it does not matter. If you don't like them that stick with your 30% consoles, those of us who will never be able to afford the 100,000,000+ EC that most of them require to outfit a full ship will use these. And that number is low considering I've seen Phaser, Disruptor, Plasma, and Antiproton all hit 40 Mil for a single console. which would be 160 Million EC for only 4 consoles.
I'll gladly spend my 200k fleet credits and 35k diltihum on these.
One of my beam boats has a 5.2% crit chance and 59% severity. Neither of those consoles will give it much of an increase in DPS if any at all.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
eng one give 40%turn +all resit while best old one give only 30% turn...think most of ppl who complain are ppl who sell current tac consoles on exchange for 30m+ so they dont wont for new consoles to be better to can still sell old ones for 30m+
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
No, they don't. They did not consider non fleet players when they made all sci and engi consoles obsolete? With all the defensive creep some offensive creep is welcome.
Fleet tac consoles should be 32% damage increase just like engineering and science, but with a toned down bonus, maybe 1% CrtH or 5% CrtD. This would be inline with the fleet versions of other consoles.
You are comparing apples to oranges, honestly. Consider that Sci and Eng consoles have many different potential functions (skill boosts for Science, ship stat boosts for Eng), as well as the fact that many of those console types were seen as underperforming. The trend Cryptic was looking at was one where people used their Sci/Eng slots for universal consoles, and then maxed out on Tac damage type consoles for DPS. Thus, the fleet Sci/Eng consoles had to compete not just with existing consoles of their types, but with things like the Borg Assimilated Console, etc.
The result was that they buffed the consoles in their primary job AND gave them a secondary buff as well. By making the consoles more versatile, they made them good enough to consider slotting in place of a lockbox or rep console. The fact that they made "normal" Sci and Eng consoles obsolete was largely irrelevant, since many people already sacrificed many of those slots for universals anyway.
Then we get to Tac consoles. For starters, virtually nobody slots universals in their Tac slots, so you don't have to worry about competing with those. Instead, you just have to compete with the current offerings. Now, that sounds easy, but unlike the other console types, Tac consoles don't have any versatility at all. They only increase damage, which makes them a no-brainer for players. Just slot the best possible damage increase, and you're done. You don't have to wonder if your ship would perform better with another Neutronium, or if you need better turn, or if you should keep your Universal in there, etc. It's just slot the biggest number, profit. This is bad for gameplay because it is boring, and bad for design because it means there aren't many avenues for improvement that don't just straight obsolete everything else.
So we end up with the current crop of consoles, which I think are simply fascinating. What they have done is basically boosted damage for people who understand how to maximize their benefits. In essence, the new consoles are a reward for people who have sufficient system mastery to make them work, which is an interesting bit of Dev psychology. The consoles might even be intended as a subtle kind of teaching tool - a way to prod more causal players into understanding the mechanics of damage better, instead of simply tossing on a bigger number and calling it a day. We'll see how successful it is - I'm hopeful that it works out, as I think it's actually a pretty solid design scheme. To paraphrase the old saying, though, you can lead a player to knowledge, but you can't make him think.