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Thoughts regarding the Fleet Tac Consoles
glassguitar
Member Posts: 427 Arc User
My initial reaction to these consoles are that the devs are contradicting themselves ...
Every single ship comes off the line with stock load out being mixed between cannon, beam and torpedo weapons. For an example let's look at the box standard escort load out:
FORE: One Dual Beam Bank, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, One Torpedo
AFT: One Beam Array, One Turret, One Torpedo
Typical bridge officer skill usage for escort alpha strike is to use Cannon Rapid Fire followed by Beam Overload and finish with a Torpedo. This method is virtually implied in the typical set of skills a Tactical Bridge Officer comes with.
The new consoles however, buff WEAPON TYPE, rather than energy type. It's as if a statement is being made:
Choose between cannons and beams. Choose between torps and mines.
...
This leads me to think that perhaps the dev team has decided that they absolutely do want us using the load outs they issue the ships with. The nature of these consoles implies that we should either go with a full cannon based build or a full beam build.
-OR-
They do not want the current standard escort alpha strike to be as powerful as it is.
...
Let's face one fact: Five of these consoles will grant 8% crit chance when stacked or 40%, yes FORTY PERCENT severity. Even a four tac consoles ship could go two and two and get 4% crit chance bonus and 16% severity. Using them is almost a no-brainer considering how important critical strikes are in this game.
So I pose this question to the devs: Is this a statement that you never intended for escorts to be able to buff DHCs, Turrets and Beam all with one console?
If so then kudos on forcing choices!
If not, I recommend the following change to the current design:
CHOICE 1: Instead of four types of console, just have two, #1. Energy Weapons buffed by 25.5%, #2 Kinetic Weapons buffed by 25.5%
CHOICE 2: Keep the current four console types and ADD two more. #1. All energy weapons buffed by 20% (or 21.1% since we can't ever seem to use a simple number ... LOL) #2. All kinetic weapons buffed by 20% (or 21.1%)
PERSONALLY, I like the idea that my beam based Avenger will be able to get 102% buff to damage and 32% severity bonus to Beam Overload attacks, while the JHAS on my tail would have to choose whether to buff his CRF or his BO. I just wonder if the devs INTEND this or if it's an oversight. If intended and it rolls like this, I will be getting my popcorn ready for the forum war!
Have fun, kill stuff, play STO.
Every single ship comes off the line with stock load out being mixed between cannon, beam and torpedo weapons. For an example let's look at the box standard escort load out:
FORE: One Dual Beam Bank, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, One Torpedo
AFT: One Beam Array, One Turret, One Torpedo
Typical bridge officer skill usage for escort alpha strike is to use Cannon Rapid Fire followed by Beam Overload and finish with a Torpedo. This method is virtually implied in the typical set of skills a Tactical Bridge Officer comes with.
The new consoles however, buff WEAPON TYPE, rather than energy type. It's as if a statement is being made:
Choose between cannons and beams. Choose between torps and mines.
...
This leads me to think that perhaps the dev team has decided that they absolutely do want us using the load outs they issue the ships with. The nature of these consoles implies that we should either go with a full cannon based build or a full beam build.
-OR-
They do not want the current standard escort alpha strike to be as powerful as it is.
...
Let's face one fact: Five of these consoles will grant 8% crit chance when stacked or 40%, yes FORTY PERCENT severity. Even a four tac consoles ship could go two and two and get 4% crit chance bonus and 16% severity. Using them is almost a no-brainer considering how important critical strikes are in this game.
So I pose this question to the devs: Is this a statement that you never intended for escorts to be able to buff DHCs, Turrets and Beam all with one console?
If so then kudos on forcing choices!
If not, I recommend the following change to the current design:
CHOICE 1: Instead of four types of console, just have two, #1. Energy Weapons buffed by 25.5%, #2 Kinetic Weapons buffed by 25.5%
CHOICE 2: Keep the current four console types and ADD two more. #1. All energy weapons buffed by 20% (or 21.1% since we can't ever seem to use a simple number ... LOL) #2. All kinetic weapons buffed by 20% (or 21.1%)
PERSONALLY, I like the idea that my beam based Avenger will be able to get 102% buff to damage and 32% severity bonus to Beam Overload attacks, while the JHAS on my tail would have to choose whether to buff his CRF or his BO. I just wonder if the devs INTEND this or if it's an oversight. If intended and it rolls like this, I will be getting my popcorn ready for the forum war!
Have fun, kill stuff, play STO.
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This also means spire tac consoles won't make all other tac consoles obsolete. So if you want to forego some useful Boff ability options, you can benefit from spire tac bonuses, but if you want beams and cannons, you'll be able to stick with older energy-type consoles.
Do we even know for sure that the crit bonuses stack? I imagine there's at least diminishing returns somewhere.
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More viable?
All cannon or all beam set ups have long been the most efficient DPS set ups.
Instead of playing against that to create more variety, it seems the devs have decided to play into that.
1. How much damage does having more then one energy actually add?
2. Is critH or CritS better then straight percentage damage add?
Tac consoles have no diminishing returns for many i'd guess most, going from a 26.6 blue mk XI console to a Mk XII 25.5 will result in an easily provable damage increase. My math suggested I'd lose something like 14 damage per hit from forward cannon from a set of 28.1% consoles, and something like 18 per weapon From a set of 30%. Those are fairly rough numbers but its decent basis to measure against. Once I figure out the damage value of 6.4 vs 32 severity I'd be ready to make a better argument.
I'm not sure how these new consoles are supposed to improve anything. In this state, I wouldn't buy them.
Exactly, it really seems like these consoles are meant to restrict viable builds. I think its the same mentality that spawned the roms, the idea being to from this point on if you want to be the best you WILL do this.
So while I'm losing something paltry, like 40 damage per shot for a beam array, I'm gaining more crits which are doing double the damage.
I'd say intended personally.
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I do know I don't want to get hit by someone with 40% crit armed with "just" dual heavy cannons under CRF.
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Yes but think of all the beam boats not having a decloak alpha strike BO3 followed by DHC on CRF1 that wont use these console.
They may as well rename them to "Escort Alpha Strike" consoles perhaps. So I will have 3 out of 7 characters that may consider using them, maybe 3 out of 9 characters because I am thinking of rolling a sci on KDF and a Rom Sci both wont be doing alpha strikes.
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My personal expectations were Tac consoles boosting an energy type, with an added torpedo bonus to get the "canon variety" back in the game of using multiple weapon types on a craft, as the way they come now, (cannon+beam+torp) slightly similar to the neutronium-rcs combo consoles from the mine.
One thing this will do ... is make tactical consoles cheaper, because the demand for them will diminish greatly.... It will not make purple XII type consoles obsolete, but it will lower the gap between them and "easier to obtain" consoles significantly.
While I agree they might become a alternative to MK XII energy type consoles for the more common and casual player I doubt prices will really go down for the energy consoles on the exchange.
Many people that will get fleet consoles probably couldn't afford the exchange consoles anyways where as stupidly rich or min/maxers will still push for the highest numbers they can get and will still toss out piles and piles of EC.
I really like your point, Sax. It's not like this is being left to only weapon crits, it will affect other stuff that does damage.
So these are good for Sci ships? :P
But seriously though most ships don't have much else other than energy weapons...I think I would use these on some ships of mine but not all of them.
If and only IF you get enough crits to begin with not every build is done around crits and usualy the ones that have high CritH to make up for a loss in base damage are escort builds designed around the high crit alpha strike, theres no way my engi beam boat or sci can ever get crit damage compared to my tac's in escorts. Simply not enough crith and not enough critd to start with for a meaningfull alpha strike and BO on a beam boat simply empties weapon power making the next few shots finishing the beams cycle useless as well. BO gains a higher crit but following shots lose DPS voiding that BO crit's damage, and if you do not crit on the BO you plain and simply lose DPS because of it.
No those tac consoles are designed around DBB on an escort for alpha strike crit's. Instead of a 3 DHC and 1 DBB fore, 2 turret and KCB aft there will be 4 DBB fore rainbow, 2 turret and KCB aft escorts or similar cruiser/sci builds that are trying to be an escort.
But then look at how crits work, crit damage is based on the damage the weapons do. So lowering the base damage lowers the crit damage. So even the critd from these consoles are less than the 8% if swapping from MK XII blue or purple. So it is quite possible even on an escort with high crit alpha strikes these consoles may break even or be very little increase in DPS.
I am looking forward to results from tests between consoles on beam boats, sci, and escorts but quite frankly I am not expecting much from them at all.
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I was thinking about that too. With appropriate Boffs, skills, consoles, traits and weapon mods, a person can get their total crit rate upto 42% with these consoles, on the right ship. Not including accuracy overflow. That is NUTS.
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We need some Skittle/Rainbow boat captains to jump in here and lay some math down on us.
Also its worth noting, adding a single or even pair of torp launchers to a build is standard thing to do even with pure energy console builds. Lots of people do this, I run one myself. These consoles will add more to that torp launcher even if they are beamD or CannonD b/c the critH or CritS will effect all weapons on the ship regardless of type. That includes the cutting beam, and other damage effects that can crit, various science and engineering damage effects.
Or if you have a typical DBB + 3x DHC build, since taking Cannon or Beam consoles would gimp one or the other.
It acts as a way to counterbalance the prevalent of +crit chance on the Romulan faction. A Fed/KDF character with relatively lower crit chance could get the benefit of 2 or 3 [CrtH] mods, while Romulans with over 20% crit chance already will likely see greater benefit from severity. By halving the effect of the severity consoles, we have a bit more balance rather than a magnification of the Romulans vs Everyone else disparity on critical hits.
Furthermore, I think the idea of cannon vs beam rather than energy type is an attempt to make these consoles compliment current tactical consoles, rather than completely replace them. If you want to run cannons and a DBB, go ahead! You can use a 30% energy console and cover both. They also encourage people to throw a single torp onto their builds, which is something that has been notoriously ineffective despite being very canon.
I do not see any problem with that, and if it can slightly crash the market for Mk12 energy specific consoles, the better it is.
Besides, I think Mk12 Tac consoles are powerful enough already. Do we really need even more power creep?
Yeah, I was looking forward for a Mark XII ultra rare AP console with some additional bonus.
Ah well, with this I can make a troll character with a rainbow boat that looks totally stupid, but still well enough for stfs.
They don't need power creep, but it would be nice for people that can't afford to spend 30M plus on a single console to have access to MK XII. IN every other case of the fleet consoles, they have been the most desirable consoles that were buffed. In this case, it is the LEAST desirable.
Also, is this a case of encouraging the use of the worst tac consoles in the game, OR is it the devs not wanting to code and create four times as many consoles? Either way, shows a major disconnect between the devs and the way players actually play.
Is it the worst tac console in the game?
For a long time everyone hated plasma; a left over attitude from a brief period where it was believed borg were resistant to plasma. Now Plasma maybe the most popular form of energy weapon. We certainly have more things that add to compared to any other energy type except maybe polarion.
Clearly they have a record of encouraging the use a method in disfavor. It will remain to be seen if result of switching to these will be an overall dps increase, but I don't think they would put it in the game unless they were fairly sure it was.
That means they believe the critH and CritS is advantageous over the 4.5% energy damage loss or at least equal to it. Once someone has the consoles we can put data behind the argument one way or another.
Why didn't they do this with Dil Mine holdings then?
They took the best consoles, and made them unequivocally better.
There's a disconnect here.
Indeed. For the Embassy they buffed most sci consoles (I certainly ain't complaining about having better shield heals and the like). From the Spire they will be giving us generic damage consoles.
But the Dil Mine took the arguably best engy consoles and made em better. If they wanted to buff less used engy consoles, they should've gone with like the 'power boost' consoles:
Weapon one: Give a small resist to weapon drain or a slight bonus to energy damage
Shield one: Buff shield regen
Engine one: Turn rate boost
Aux one: I dunno...boost to heals, maybe exotic damage, something like that.
That is just random examples off the top of my head.
What a strange coincidence, I was thinking of posting to the suggestion threads that the energy consoles should give weapon power drain resist, either extra shield resistance or reduced bleedthrough, extra speed on the engines (turn is already handled by RCS) and not sure about aux power console, but probably stats of something. Maybe reduced global cooldowns.