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Cryptic Why is the IP's most canon weapon useless in this game: Torpedos?
newromulan1
Member Posts: 2,229
Look at almost every battle in ever episode - what did the most damage? What caused the whole ship to blow up? Torpedo hits!! The Borg would laugh off energy weapons, watch any DS9 battle - almost all torp hits blew up ships, last original series movie- cloaked Klingon ship was firing what and hammering the enterprise and excel? That's right Torpedos!! Oh and what was fired back to destroy that Klingon ship?? Torpedos!! Fire!! As Kirk would say.
In Star Trek Online Torpedos are USELESS!! Why? Why has Cryptic made the Series most primary destructive weapon useless in this game?
Why do shields have a built in 75% kinetic resist?
Why does 3% shields save your hull the same what 100% does?
Why can almost ALL escorts in this game OUTRUN torpedo's?
It's utter nonsense!!
It's more than that - it's unbalanced and GAME BREAKING
If you are a Star Trek fan do you really want to keep playing a game where the series main weapon is useless?
I guess it's because in PvE there is still some use for them - if just barely - so no-one really notices??
In Star Trek Online Torpedos are USELESS!! Why? Why has Cryptic made the Series most primary destructive weapon useless in this game?
Why do shields have a built in 75% kinetic resist?
Why does 3% shields save your hull the same what 100% does?
Why can almost ALL escorts in this game OUTRUN torpedo's?
It's utter nonsense!!
It's more than that - it's unbalanced and GAME BREAKING
If you are a Star Trek fan do you really want to keep playing a game where the series main weapon is useless?
I guess it's because in PvE there is still some use for them - if just barely - so no-one really notices??
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But yeah, pretty damned worthless in pvp..
Truth be known: underpowered but with infinite ammo.
Bye / Qapla' / Jolan tru
Didn't Voyager have an infinite stock of Torpedos??;):eek::P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
Life expectancy of a target also dramatically shortens when heavy cannons hit the bare hull. This is not something only torpedoes can achieve. The main difference between the two weapons is that DHCs don't suck when firing at a shielded target. General rule in PvP is that when your shields are down you are toast, regardless of what hits you next.
That being said, torpedoes also have their problems. They are weak to get through shields, which is, according to Undiscovered Country, absolutely not canon. Torpedoes don't benefit from any boff ability to completely bypass enemy shields, like we have seen in Generations, which could be something equal to Directed Energy Modulation.
And as a last gear grinding thing: swap Transphasic and Chroniton effects. What we know from canon:
Chroniton can bypass enemy shielding to a much bigger degree due to being out of temporal alignment, like we have seen in VOY: Year of Hell. Transphasic blows up Borg Cubes, but is not notable otherwise, like we have seen in VOY: Endgame.
In game: Transphasic bigger bleedthrough by shields (that should be Chroniton), while Chroniton slows down enemies (which isnt Transphasic, but pretty danged useless).
So yeah, Torpedoes need a rework, I vote for that. But even in their current state, Torpedoes are useful.
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With all the shield boosting passives and everything else - is there every really a time any more when someone does not have a sliver of shields which will absorb 75% MINIMUM of the torps damage - with the built in 75% kinetic resist mechanic?
Also there is NO way even in PvE that Torpedos can match the DPS hull smashing of energy weapons.
Just as that nice voyager video above and dozens of others that could be posted - in the IP torps were fired at a 10 to 1 ratio vs enegry weapons - and every time significant dmage was done - usually it was from Torpedos.
Why is Cryptic making them more and more useless?
Otherwise, torps are situationally powerful, nuke the enemy shield, and a torp salvo is more efficient than any energy attack. They are more powerful used as spike damage than sustained firepower. Just like in the show.
Yes, there are certain builds for some situations in which certain torpedoes can be useful. Some can also spike decently. However, considering that fact that rapid firing DHCs or FAW/BO beams are ALWAYS useful and are certainly not situational at all it's pretty clear why you see a lot pure energy builds in both PvE and PvP and only a handful of torpedo users. The latter are also often inexperienced players who don't have any idea how low their overall DPS is. Most of them are usually situated on the lower end of my combat parser.
Smaller Ships could carry not much, 2 Dozen maybe 3, while larger Ships (Cruisers) can load a lot of 'em.
Escorts would still pwn, tank and science the everlasting sh*t out of everything but they get a small kick to the shin.
Torpedocarrying Cruisers would get one or two new abilities, something like "Beam Over Torpedos" or "Ferry Weapons" which could use the same animation like Boarding Parties but obviously targeted at Friendlies.
Science Ship would get the middle ground in carrying Capacity but also some Torpedo-related abilities, all obviously with a science twist... Tachyon-emitting detonators (AoE Tachyon Beam) or something like that.
I love(not) how in STAR TREK online - torpedos have become situational - and from many posters - accepted as situational.
Never on screen or in books or ANYTHING else star trek did I hear "Captain we can't fire the torpedos until the shields are down!!"
Do 30k in a torp boat then come talk.
There are some who use transphasics primarily and with the mines and cluster torpedo can be pretty effective. But only to circumvent the whole 0.1% of shields up - no damage.
It'd be nice if it scaled based on current shield facing for bleedthrough, but expecting that kind of logic would be silly.
One of the things I like about STO though is that it seems to be an ever evolving (albeit at times, apparently, too slowly for some) work in progress. Maybe the Devs will get to it, maybe they won't. Hopefully they will but until then, the little "universe" is still fun. In closing may I say that if we are going to stay with under powered torpedoes, can we please do something about those little green-balls-of-death torpedoes that some of those PVE d'ridex's fire, it seems only my polarize hull and evasive are in cooldown.
When a torpedo hits shields on screen, the ship bucks, crew is shaken up, and sparks fly. We don't get that.
What I'd like to see:
1. Kinetic impact
It's an explosion. It might be kinda cool if the impact knocked the ship around a little bit. Like nudging it over a little bit in the same direction as the torpedo was going when it hit.
But I'm not entirely sure the visual effect would work very well, something would have to limit how far a ship could be knocked with repeated strikes, and the fact that torpedoes can fire a lot more often than in the shows could be another issue.
2. Loss of crew efficiency
Torpedo hits that shove the ship around and rattle the hull are bound to have some effect on crew efficiency. I'd like to see this have an effect in combat.
The problem here is that the crew strength mechanic has never seemed to work all that well or have much effect on the ship's efficiency aside from subsystem repair... and the subsystems don't go down that often or for very long.
3. Random "bad" effects
We need "sparks to fly" occasionally when a torpedo hits. Even though we don't get to see the inside view of consoles blowing up in a crewman's face, we should be able to see the effects of it.
A loss of power in a subsystem. A console, BOFF ability, or weapon being knocked offline temporarily. A secondary explosion that does a little bit of hull damage. Weakened damage resistance. Something. And not the same something every single time. Give us a little variety in our mayhem.
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Although Cryptic tries to be canon in some regards, game mechanics cannot be held to the standards of what makes for the dramatizations of the stories on TV and movies and books.
If you think about it, it would make battles too easy if it too just one torpedo to take out an unsheilded but otherwise unscathed enemy ship in one blow.
That's my 2 EC...
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Although we have fleet stuff and rep stuff - one way to see how useless or used less - torps are is to take a look at their cost on the exchange.
Vs energy type weapons Torps have in most cases and their tac consoles dropped as much as 90% in the last 2 years.
This as passive powers to enegy weapons, new types of energy weapons, new resistences and everything else has been added - torps just keep getting nerfed to the point of not being effective.
2. Major problems
a)Shields before anyhting else have a base min 75% kinetic resist to torps - this is WAY too high.
b)Bleedthrough damage and damage to shield is the same if your shield is at 3% of 100% - this seems illiogical as well as against canon. When weak shields of a ship are hit in the show - the explosion rips though the hull and the hull takes massive damage - to the point where some officer always says "one more hit and we are finished captain!!"
If Virusdancer or DDIS were here they could show you the detailed math of just how ridiculous the games mechnics are when it come to torpedos.
from this page show me tell me why VOY could have not made them own her own?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Photon_torpedo
The warhead had a detonation chamber filled with antimatter. what dose a warp core make?
system Lord Baal is dead
The above will go a long way in solving torpedo vs. shield issues that have been present since STO's public launch.
In the 5th episode - in the video above plus at the beginning of this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=gFq-37a7pk0&feature=endscreen
Captain Janeway says they have 38 photon torpedos and NO WAY to replace them - I figure the captain of the starship would know if there were a way.
on top of that it was never addressed in the show - but that is totally beside the point of how Torps have not been boosted but energy weapons and passive resists have been boosted almost every month.
At bare min they should increase Shield penetration on the games weakest torp: the Transphasic - to 60% from 40% - that would help out a little.
Second they should reduce the base kinetic resist of shields from 75% to a more reasonable 25%
And why can a player not avoid an NPC's torp but can easily evade a players torp? Never in the show did I see them try to outrun a torpedo - that's laughable.
system Lord Baal is dead
But you also make a good point and are backing my argument that Torpedo's SHOULD be getting buffed just as much if not more than energy weapons - as in shows like Voyager the primary weapons USED was torpedos!! When it came to talking about destroying a ship it was always about torpedos.
Look at the DS9 battle between Defiant and the Lakota(excel class) - They were at a stalemate with energy weapons and photons so the Adm says
"I'snt the Lakota equipped with Quantum torpedos?"
To which the women Captain replies "I thought we were just supposed to stop her(defiant) not DESTROY her"
So again why are torps such a joke now in the game?
i could say same for shields hull beam weapons and yes torps i mean ships lasted longer in fights with the Dominion on DS9 then they do in this game
system Lord Baal is dead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58hVEY5Og
or the fully scene from undiscovered country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSqCJ-UGYns
DS9 battle:
http://youtu.be/QkQizwbq7Rs?t=1m48s
You can't outrun a normal torpedo. Unless it's a targetable projectile, you can't. The instant a torpedo (or energy cannon shot) is fired, the hit or miss, time to impact, damage, and whether it's a crit or not is determined (the only thing I've noticed is that the target's shield being up or down is determined on impact). You can outrun the torpedo visual, but you'll probably focus so much on that part that you won't notice the damage has already been done. This can easily be tested with any torp, but a plasma torp makes it easier to see this because a plasma fire will show up on your ship even if the animation hasn't hit.
Actually you would switch Chroniton Torpedoes with Har'peng Torpedoes.
Chroniton Torpedoes in Voyager: Year of Hell bypassed shields, had radiation, and a delayed explosion. Which exactly what a Har'peng torpedo does.
Transphasic works as it should due to game balance, if it was 100% bypass, then players would use that and not any other kind of Torpedo.
You can't? Come play me in a 1 vs 1 PvP and I will show you just how you can.
Challenge accepted. But first let me share a little story.
I was in Kerrat, attacking a player in a BoP. He was losing, so he flew off fast and started battlecloaking. I got a torpedo fired off just before he disappeared. Now keep in mind, he's going faster than the torpedo animation. And then, he appeared in a flash, his ship turning into a fireball (hit him with his shields down). He exploded after the time it took for the torpedo to launch from my ship and reach the point in space where he was when I launched it.
Worf and Tasha are tactical in TNG but wear the golden-yellow of engineering.
Scotty is an engineer in red...
But as for torp and shields, I agree.
Let penetration increase with shield % decreasing.
Cheers
- Scotty, to La Forge