24 hours, more than 30 replies, 1200 views but... this thread is going nowhere useful.
I didn't initiate this to start a mess. So what about this before answering to the original post : 1) chill out ; 2) get the information in this thread right ; 3) think about the consequences of this addition for the game in general and for the klingon faction in particular.
Point 1 : Half of above messages could be wiped clean of provocations and foul language.
Fleet ships (Tier 5) are purchased at a shipyard for 20,000 fleet credits and 4 fleet ship modules [...] If a player has already unlocked the C-Store Retrofit version of a ship, then the associated fleet ship version will only cost 20,000 Fleet Credits and 1 (one) Fleet Ship Module.
There are exceptions to this rule. The Fleet B'rel is the most relevant one for this faction, the number of fleet modules necessary to purchase is 5 but is still subject to a discount for the owners of a B'rel retrofit.
It is currently unknown whether the ships accessible through the new Fleet building will be associated with a discount for the owner of the retrofit versions ; we have a screenshot indicating that it is the case, but this information is drawn from a test server. At this stage, honestly, we can only speculate on the costs of the new ships.
Making any access to the new ships conditional upon a new Tier-3 building is a simple way to raise the stakes for the new missions and their reward. Something new to do and a good reason to do it, it sounds like a classical PvE update for a MMO.
Point 3 was the intended topic for discussion here.
The Fleet Kar'Fi will get a 4th tactical console, as indicated by Kha Yuung. It's the best carrier in the game, by a landslide. With 7 weapons and 4 tactical consoles, it's a force on its own. With the update on some science abilities like Tyken's rift, the scientific Cmd slot can be put to good use.
Although the tactical Lt slot could have been made universal to give more flexibility to the bridge officers, I think that the Fleet Kar'Fi is nothing less than the single most powerful PvE ship in the game. I don't think that it brings imbalance to the game, because we won't be seeing effective teams of 5 Kar'Fi's mowing down everything on their road. It is certainly fair that science gets a piece of attention at this stage. It is certainly fair that of all new ships, the most interesting one is for the klingon factions. I see this addition as a welcome balancing move.
No, you're missing the point. We're fed up with the TRIBBLE cryptic/pwe is shovelling down our throats and calling chocolate cake. It's all perfectly ON-TOPIC and perfectly relevant to the discussion at hand. None of us are trolling or spamming or hi-jacking. All of us are sick and tired of the same old money-grubbing TRIBBLE tactics that cryptic are using these days.
We all HAVE thought of the consequences for adding these things to the klingon faction. Apparently you haven't thought as far ahead as the rest of us have. The game is circling the toilet right now, and with these improvements the water's just getting lower and lower.
That's the consequences we're looking at. That's the end-result that cryptic will force upon us. Not in so eloquent a way, but just about with the same amount of desirability as I've put it.
There are exceptions to this rule. The Fleet B'rel is the most relevant one for this faction, the number of fleet modules necessary to purchase is 5 and is not subject to a discount for the owners of a B'rel retrofit.
Yes it is. I have the B'Rel retrofit and the Fleet version says it costs only 1 FSM for me.
None of us are trolling or spamming or hi-jacking. All of us are sick and tired of the same old money-grubbing TRIBBLE tactics that cryptic are using these days.
Some objections have been raised about the cost of the Fleet Kar'Fi, and I relayed them in the previous message as far as they're objective and polite. After due consideration, it appears that they were based on a lack of information.
1) The discount will be applied for the owner of a Kar'Fi after all. Ziggyds 's screenshot and the precedent mentioned by Stofsk look convincing.
2) If one Fleet module will be enough, there is no need to invest real money into the Fleet Kar'Fi (farming energy credits or dilithium is not so time-consuming nowadays).
3) As for the necessity to raise the new building to tier 3, it's an incentive to play the game, not to invest money. Klingon players might be less numerous than Federation players, but they appear to have more powerful fleets on average. I don't think that this condition is discriminatory.
I'm not going to pay real money for the Fleet Kar'Fi. I think the klingon faction was neglected for too long. I think that the science and engineering departments were neglected for too long. But I can recognize a move in the right direction when I see one : the advanced comm array moved the cursor towards engineering, the Fleet Kar'fi is a little step for the science department and for the klingon faction. I'm waiting for more balancing changes like these two.
Making any access to the new ships conditional upon a new Tier-3 building is a simple way to raise the stakes for the new missions and their reward. Something new to do and a good reason to do it, it sounds like a classical PvE update for a MMO.
With all due respect, no there's no reason to do it and not good at all the way it's being implemented. Yes, it's Cryptic's game and they're free to do whetever they want with it, but it doesn't mean that we must like or agree with it. Fleets have worked hard to complete T5 shipyards so they can get access to fleet ships.
This is not a way to raise the stakes, this is taking yet another system in game and spreading it all over the place without any level of logic or consistency. Like I said before, by what logic are ships that go in the spire selected. I'd be ok with it if it had some resemblance of a logical spread of which ship goes where. Like for example, only veteran ships are spire. Or veteran ships and carriers. Or new tier of ships. The way it is now, it's like Cryptic will go "eeny, meeny, miney, moe" and you get to pray that the ship you happen to like does not get drafted to the spire.
I'm going to be perfectly blunt here, you know how this sounds to me? Like they know that players are not big fans of rep.grinds and like they're not sure their new PvE content and fleet holding is fun and engaging enough by itself, but they can't be bothered to put some real creative effort into it and just put another carrot on a stick to fill in.
And have in mind that when I say this, I'm in fact ok with the rep.systems but I know that many people are not.
As to the topic of the Kar'fi - Yes it will be a 5 FM ship, but it will be eligible for the discount if the player owns the C-Store Kar'fi. It's good to have her finally make an appearance, it has been long overdue. Klingon fans have been asking for a fleet version for quite some time.
I don't agree with the people asking for any changes in stats other than the standard 10% boosts of all fleet versions. Honestly, her Boff layout and turn rate are perfect to me.
I don't neccessarily agree that it will be the most powerfull PvE ship, but it certainly will be a beast and close to the top. I don't think it could imbalance the game, because the game is fairly imbalanced in the current state, although I'm happy to see some efforts are being made to put things on a more even plain, like the cruiser comm arrays. She certainly can't imbalance the game any more than the Scimitar already did.
What I'm looking forward to the most related to the fleet Kar'fi is that she will give the deprived of ships KDF faction a fighting chance with the new toys Feds. and Roms got lately. This will be a great ship, heck even the standard one now is a very good ship. Her fleet stats, the addition of the tactical console and layout is very promising and I do expect the fleet Kar'fi to become one of the KDF's main fighting ships in the next period.
Hell, I'm not a carrier fan at all and even I'm considering grabbing that one so my Klingon can bring some power and devastation on the table again. :cool: I'm just lucky enough to be in a very strong fleet that will probably finish the spire with the speed of light.
24 hours, more than 30 replies, 1200 views but... this thread is going nowhere useful.
I didn't initiate this to start a mess. So what about this before answering to the original post : 1) chill out ; 2) get the information in this thread right ; 3) think about the consequences of this addition for the game in general and for the klingon faction in particular.
Point 1 : Half of above messages could be wiped clean of provocations and foul language.
There are exceptions to this rule. The Fleet B'rel is the most relevant one for this faction, the number of fleet modules necessary to purchase is 5 but is still subject to a discount for the owners of a B'rel retrofit.
It is currently unknown whether the ships accessible through the new Fleet building will be associated with a discount for the owner of the retrofit versions ; we have a screenshot indicating that it is the case, but this information is drawn from a test server. At this stage, honestly, we can only speculate on the costs of the new ships.
Making any access to the new ships conditional upon a new Tier-3 building is a simple way to raise the stakes for the new missions and their reward. Something new to do and a good reason to do it, it sounds like a classical PvE update for a MMO.
Point 3 was the intended topic for discussion here.
The Fleet Kar'Fi will get a 4th tactical console, as indicated by Kha Yuung. It's the best carrier in the game, by a landslide. With 7 weapons and 4 tactical consoles, it's a force on its own. With the update on some science abilities like Tyken's rift, the scientific Cmd slot can be put to good use.
Although the tactical Lt slot could have been made universal to give more flexibility to the bridge officers, I think that the Fleet Kar'Fi is nothing less than the single most powerful PvE ship in the game. I don't think that it brings imbalance to the game, because we won't be seeing effective teams of 5 Kar'Fi's mowing down everything on their road. It is certainly fair that science gets a piece of attention at this stage. It is certainly fair that of all new ships, the most interesting one is for the klingon factions. I see this addition as a welcome balancing move.
No, the best carriers in the game are either the JHDC or the Recluse, depending on your preference. Now, if you mean it's the best faction restricted carrier in the game, I can agree with that. And it ought to be that way, since carriers were a KDF concept to begin with before Cryptic peddled it off.
Despite my generally pissed-off attitude towards Cryptic, I do like that we're getting a Fleet Kar'fi. I'm just tired of Cryptic's BS.
you know how this sounds to me? [...] like they're not sure their new PvE content and fleet holding is fun and engaging enough by itself, but they can't be bothered to put some real creative effort into it and just put another carrot on a stick to fill in.
Good point, and you're not alone !
When I discussed exactly the same issue with a contact of mine today, he described the Fleet Kar'Fi as "such a big carrot, so big that it looks like a stick" ! Your concern has echoes everywhere, in all three factions.
Well, we know very little about the new PvE content, we have as many reasons to hope as to fear... The klingon faction is used to being neglected and to have its rightful complaints fall into deaf ears. But maybe, this is the time for a change.
The new content will be shared by all the players, from all three factions. It 'd better be fun in itself, or Fed voices will raise all the more loudly that their carrot is a Fleet Atrox (no comment , and indeed no dedicated thread in the Federation Shipyard forum).
No, the best carriers in the game are either the JHDC or the Recluse, depending on your preference.
Looking at the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought's and the Recluse's stats, I prefer the Kar'Fi. The Recluse has flexibility on its side (the universal Cmd slot), but it does very little damage by itself (6 weapons, 2 tactical consoles). The JHDC is a top-class ship, and I certainly recommend it to engineer captains of all three factions, but I think the Fleet Kar'Fi will be a better addition to a PvE team, because of its complementarities with escorts (the scientific Cmd slot).
If we compare the pets, it seems that there is a consensus to prefer the Jem'Hadar attack frigate and the Fer'Jai frigate to any Tholian pets, including the Mesh Weavers (but we might speak of a minimal objective difference here).
We reach an approximate ex aequo between the JHDC and the Fleet Kar'Fi, and the clear third place for the Recluse. Personal preferences and some PvP team builds might of course matter a lot and change this ordering for a given player.
My impression in current practice of elite STF (I played a lot of elite STF recently for two new Romulan characters) was that the Kar'Fi was more or less on par with the JHDC right now. If that is true, the Fleet Kar'Fi will outperform the JHDC. Of course this is very subjective, dependent on the context and on the players flying the respective ships. It would be only logical (canon-wise) and fair that the klingon faction gets the best carrier...
Given the stats of the Obelisk Carrier, the Kar'Fi 's status of best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe) is definitely not threatened !
Given the stats of the Obelisk Carrier, the Kar'Fi 's status of best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe) is definitely not threatened !
You mean a carrier with super low hull, only 2 eng abilities, +15 total power and no system targeting is the best carrier in the game? Mmmhh...
If you were talking about the look i would definitely agree !
Given the stats of the Obelisk Carrier, the Kar'Fi 's status of best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe) is definitely not threatened !
Can you explain why you rate it so high? Even though I'd really like the kar'fi to be the best it seems to me that the normal kar'fi is slightly below the carriers that are capable of running an aux2bat setup (like the mirror vo'quv/obelisk/JHEC).
Can you explain why you rate it so high? Even though I'd really like the kar'fi to be the best it seems to me that the normal kar'fi is slightly below the carriers that are capable of running an aux2bat setup (like the mirror vo'quv/obelisk/JHEC).
JHEC isn't really in the same category, IMO. It's a single hangar escort, not a dual hangar carrier. The JHEC is fun, but it isn't the same kind of fun as a Kar'fi.
Obelisk looses out damage wise by having only a Lieutenant Tac officer as the top Tac possible, which mean no APO and only rank 1 of APB.
The Mirror Vo'Quv running Aux2Bat and Marion... that becomes interesting. The Mirror Vo'Quv Lt. Comm Tac spot becomes global cooldown, and the weapons drain a lot less energy plus get a small damage rider, versus the Kar'fis additional weapon hardpoint, more Tac consoles (+1 C-Store, +2 Fleet) being able to take advantage of Nukara Tier 4 rep, and slight additional flexibility of being able to run 2x different Ensign and Lieutenant Tac BOffs abilities. Mirror Vo'Quv running Aux2Bat pilots would have to time firing off Aux dependent Sci abilities or just go without, whereas a Kar'fi has them available all the time.
You mean a carrier with super low hull, only 2 eng abilities, +15 total power and no system targeting is the best carrier in the game? Mmmhh...
If you were talking about the look i would definitely agree !
I wasn't thinking about the look, but since you mentionned it... .
I was thinking about the number of tactical consoles, the best pets in the game (admittedly ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar frigates), the seventh weapon slot (some other carriers have only six) and the turn rate and inertia, slightly better than most other carriers. I will argue in the sequel that most carriers don't tank well anyway (except the Jem'Hadar ships) in spite of engineer BOff slots, so I think that the Kar'Fi's bridge officers are definitely one of the best configurations for a carrier.
To be clear, I don't think that the Fleet Kar'Fi will be the unique dominating carrier in the game. The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is optimal too, in a different way (a tanking capability but no science). These ships won't be chosen by the same captains : I would clearly recommend the Kar'Fi to a science captain and the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought to an engineer captain.
Can you explain why you rate it so high? Even though I'd really like the kar'fi to be the best it seems to me that the normal kar'fi is slightly below the carriers that are capable of running an aux2bat setup (like the mirror vo'quv/obelisk/JHEC).
The ability to run an Aux2Batt build is certainly a nice feature of the Mirror Vo'Quv, Obelisk and Jem'Hadar carriers (both). The universal commander slot is certainly a nice feature of the Recluse. Yet the Kar'Fi has an offensive potential that is unmatched among the carriers, except by the Jem'Hadar carriers (which I would consider optimal as well).
The Obelisk suffers from the wasted commander problem in PvE (namely, the engineer commander can equip skills that are half as useful as tactical or scientific commander skills, e.g. attack pattern omega 3). The Mirror Vo'Quv and Recluse have only 2 tactical consoles, which is really sad. These three ships could be played as tanking carriers (since they have the engineer slots and hull requirements for a tank), but keeping the agro will be a problem. When most of the offensive output of the ship is provided by the pets, you cannot expect to tank well.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought and Heavy carriers are good tanks, the former with a cruiser feel, the latter with a destroyer feel (and fewer pets). The Kar'Fi is different but on an equal footing, it can't be played as a proper tank but it is a scientific ship with a great offensive potential. In my personal experience, I've seen Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts and Kar'fis provide the same kind of damage contribution to an elite STF group, so I assume that either the Kar'Fi's pilots are a bit better on average, or that the forthcoming Fleet Kar'Fi will be an inch better (from the viewpoint of damage) than the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought.
I wasn't thinking about the look, but since you mentionned it... .
I was thinking about the number of tactical consoles, the best pets in the game (admittedly ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar frigates), the seventh weapon slot (some other carriers have only six) and the turn rate and inertia, slightly better than most other carriers. I will argue in the sequel that most carriers don't tank well anyway (except the Jem'Hadar ships) in spite of engineer BOff slots, so I think that the Kar'Fi's bridge officers are definitely one of the best configurations for a carrier.
To be clear, I don't think that the Fleet Kar'Fi will be the unique dominating carrier in the game. The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is optimal too, in a different way (a tanking capability but no science). These ships won't be chosen by the same captains : I would clearly recommend the Kar'Fi to a science captain and the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought to an engineer captain.
Indeed... the Dreadnaught has horrible tank and a wretched turn rate. The fighters you can get with it are junk so you need Elite Scorps which is fine but still a bit disappointing.
Also a Carrier, especially one as horribly slow as the Dreadnaught and the rest of them besides the Kar'Fi need the ability to slow down, hold, and shut down enemies to be very effective and with next to no Science not only does the Dread fail to have many heals but it has next to no holds or disabling abilities.
As you say it is kind of alright for an Engineer especially if all you want to do is kill structures and cubes with it but anything more dynamic then that and most every other carrier (besides maybe the Obelisk) is superior. Which is a bit rough considering that the Dread's console is AWESOME. I suppose if they had just made it a hulking battleship (LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN) then it would have gotten cruiser commands and would have been a lot more worthwhile (especially because then it would have probably gotten a turn of 7 at least).
As for the Kar'Fi, between its turn rate, fighters, sci abilities, invincibility, 4 forward weapons, tactical consoles, and power loadout it can easily best many other carriers in a fight and IS the King of Carriers with the Recluse trailing it. A fleet version would only up this ante but it could really use to get its Subsystem targeting back.
However... The truth has been stated before and will continue to be true: If you cannot take full advantage of a ship due to your skillset then it will never be any good for you. So if the Kar'Fi is too much to handle for a captain then it will not meet the standard set forth but the same is true of all ships.
Personally, since I bought the Kar'fi and the fleet ships came out, I've been hoping for it to get a fleet version. However, I don't like it for my science captain, despite the sci's skills. I like it on my tac. It fights so much better than any of my other KDF ships, the Guramba inclided.
I'm ecstatic that its now a fleet variant as well, though, it could use the 4 FSM instead of five, or if keeping the 5 FSM, give it at least two of the subsystem targetings (weapons/engines or weapons/shields). But that is just me and my twisted sense of idealism
Personally, since I bought the Kar'fi and the fleet ships came out, I've been hoping for it to get a fleet version. However, I don't like it for my science captain, despite the sci's skills. I like it on my tac. It fights so much better than any of my other KDF ships, the Guramba inclided.
I'm ecstatic that its now a fleet variant as well, though, it could use the 4 FSM instead of five, or if keeping the 5 FSM, give it at least two of the subsystem targetings (weapons/engines or weapons/shields). But that is just me and my twisted sense of idealism
This is a bit of bump-necroposting, but aside from the occasional "build help" thread, we haven't seen much information about the Fleet Kar'Fi. Presumably some fleets already have the T3 Spire or will soon have it, so this is the right time to raise the Fleet Kar'Fi from the dead (after one month... hopefully it is not a skeleton yet).
Is there something in actual play that differs from theoretical expectations ? On paper, my impression is that it is the best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the much more expensive Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe).
What about the turn rate, the inertia rating and the feeling that results from them ? Same feeling as the other carriers ?
Can we say something concrete now or should I wait a couple of weeks before bringing back the dinosaurs (ooops no sorry that's with the Voth, I got confused) ?
This is a bit of bump-necroposting, but aside from the occasional "build help" thread, we haven't seen much information about the Fleet Kar'Fi. Presumably some fleets already have the T3 Spire or will soon have it, so this is the right time to raise the Fleet Kar'Fi from the dead (after one month... hopefully it is not a skeleton yet).
Is there something in actual play that differs from theoretical expectations ? On paper, my impression is that it is the best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the much more expensive Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe).
What about the turn rate, the inertia rating and the feeling that results from them ? Same feeling as the other carriers ?
Can we say something concrete now or should I wait a couple of weeks before bringing back the dinosaurs (ooops no sorry that's with the Voth, I got confused) ?
1) No other thread discusses the actual tests of the Kar'Fi ;
2) the latest contribution was only a month old ;
3) what would be the point of opening a new thread about the Kar'Fi since all the previous information is still relevant ?
1) No other thread discusses the actual tests of the Kar'Fi ;
2) the latest contribution was only a month old ;
3) what would be the point of opening a new thread about the Kar'Fi since all the previous information is still relevant ?
Come on... Moderators, Necrothread here.
1) Create a new thread.
2) Posting on a thread a month old is necrothreading.
3) Opinions might have changed and you can still read this thread without posting.
Comments
I didn't initiate this to start a mess. So what about this before answering to the original post : 1) chill out ; 2) get the information in this thread right ; 3) think about the consequences of this addition for the game in general and for the klingon faction in particular.
Point 1 : Half of above messages could be wiped clean of provocations and foul language.
Point 2 : The general rule about Fleet ships is stated in this page of the Wiki. There are exceptions to this rule. The Fleet B'rel is the most relevant one for this faction, the number of fleet modules necessary to purchase is 5 but is still subject to a discount for the owners of a B'rel retrofit.
It is currently unknown whether the ships accessible through the new Fleet building will be associated with a discount for the owner of the retrofit versions ; we have a screenshot indicating that it is the case, but this information is drawn from a test server. At this stage, honestly, we can only speculate on the costs of the new ships.
Making any access to the new ships conditional upon a new Tier-3 building is a simple way to raise the stakes for the new missions and their reward. Something new to do and a good reason to do it, it sounds like a classical PvE update for a MMO.
Point 3 was the intended topic for discussion here.
The Fleet Kar'Fi will get a 4th tactical console, as indicated by Kha Yuung. It's the best carrier in the game, by a landslide. With 7 weapons and 4 tactical consoles, it's a force on its own. With the update on some science abilities like Tyken's rift, the scientific Cmd slot can be put to good use.
Although the tactical Lt slot could have been made universal to give more flexibility to the bridge officers, I think that the Fleet Kar'Fi is nothing less than the single most powerful PvE ship in the game. I don't think that it brings imbalance to the game, because we won't be seeing effective teams of 5 Kar'Fi's mowing down everything on their road. It is certainly fair that science gets a piece of attention at this stage. It is certainly fair that of all new ships, the most interesting one is for the klingon factions. I see this addition as a welcome balancing move.
We all HAVE thought of the consequences for adding these things to the klingon faction. Apparently you haven't thought as far ahead as the rest of us have. The game is circling the toilet right now, and with these improvements the water's just getting lower and lower.
That's the consequences we're looking at. That's the end-result that cryptic will force upon us. Not in so eloquent a way, but just about with the same amount of desirability as I've put it.
Thanks. Message updated. This information is all the more valuable that the Wiki doesn't mention it.
Some objections have been raised about the cost of the Fleet Kar'Fi, and I relayed them in the previous message as far as they're objective and polite. After due consideration, it appears that they were based on a lack of information.
1) The discount will be applied for the owner of a Kar'Fi after all. Ziggyds 's screenshot and the precedent mentioned by Stofsk look convincing.
2) If one Fleet module will be enough, there is no need to invest real money into the Fleet Kar'Fi (farming energy credits or dilithium is not so time-consuming nowadays).
3) As for the necessity to raise the new building to tier 3, it's an incentive to play the game, not to invest money. Klingon players might be less numerous than Federation players, but they appear to have more powerful fleets on average. I don't think that this condition is discriminatory.
I'm not going to pay real money for the Fleet Kar'Fi. I think the klingon faction was neglected for too long. I think that the science and engineering departments were neglected for too long. But I can recognize a move in the right direction when I see one : the advanced comm array moved the cursor towards engineering, the Fleet Kar'fi is a little step for the science department and for the klingon faction. I'm waiting for more balancing changes like these two.
With all due respect, no there's no reason to do it and not good at all the way it's being implemented. Yes, it's Cryptic's game and they're free to do whetever they want with it, but it doesn't mean that we must like or agree with it. Fleets have worked hard to complete T5 shipyards so they can get access to fleet ships.
This is not a way to raise the stakes, this is taking yet another system in game and spreading it all over the place without any level of logic or consistency. Like I said before, by what logic are ships that go in the spire selected. I'd be ok with it if it had some resemblance of a logical spread of which ship goes where. Like for example, only veteran ships are spire. Or veteran ships and carriers. Or new tier of ships. The way it is now, it's like Cryptic will go "eeny, meeny, miney, moe" and you get to pray that the ship you happen to like does not get drafted to the spire.
I'm going to be perfectly blunt here, you know how this sounds to me? Like they know that players are not big fans of rep.grinds and like they're not sure their new PvE content and fleet holding is fun and engaging enough by itself, but they can't be bothered to put some real creative effort into it and just put another carrot on a stick to fill in.
And have in mind that when I say this, I'm in fact ok with the rep.systems but I know that many people are not.
As to the topic of the Kar'fi - Yes it will be a 5 FM ship, but it will be eligible for the discount if the player owns the C-Store Kar'fi. It's good to have her finally make an appearance, it has been long overdue. Klingon fans have been asking for a fleet version for quite some time.
I don't agree with the people asking for any changes in stats other than the standard 10% boosts of all fleet versions. Honestly, her Boff layout and turn rate are perfect to me.
I don't neccessarily agree that it will be the most powerfull PvE ship, but it certainly will be a beast and close to the top. I don't think it could imbalance the game, because the game is fairly imbalanced in the current state, although I'm happy to see some efforts are being made to put things on a more even plain, like the cruiser comm arrays. She certainly can't imbalance the game any more than the Scimitar already did.
What I'm looking forward to the most related to the fleet Kar'fi is that she will give the deprived of ships KDF faction a fighting chance with the new toys Feds. and Roms got lately. This will be a great ship, heck even the standard one now is a very good ship. Her fleet stats, the addition of the tactical console and layout is very promising and I do expect the fleet Kar'fi to become one of the KDF's main fighting ships in the next period.
Hell, I'm not a carrier fan at all and even I'm considering grabbing that one so my Klingon can bring some power and devastation on the table again. :cool: I'm just lucky enough to be in a very strong fleet that will probably finish the spire with the speed of light.
No, the best carriers in the game are either the JHDC or the Recluse, depending on your preference. Now, if you mean it's the best faction restricted carrier in the game, I can agree with that. And it ought to be that way, since carriers were a KDF concept to begin with before Cryptic peddled it off.
Despite my generally pissed-off attitude towards Cryptic, I do like that we're getting a Fleet Kar'fi. I'm just tired of Cryptic's BS.
Good point, and you're not alone !
When I discussed exactly the same issue with a contact of mine today, he described the Fleet Kar'Fi as "such a big carrot, so big that it looks like a stick" ! Your concern has echoes everywhere, in all three factions.
Well, we know very little about the new PvE content, we have as many reasons to hope as to fear... The klingon faction is used to being neglected and to have its rightful complaints fall into deaf ears. But maybe, this is the time for a change.
The new content will be shared by all the players, from all three factions. It 'd better be fun in itself, or Fed voices will raise all the more loudly that their carrot is a Fleet Atrox (no comment
Looking at the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought's and the Recluse's stats, I prefer the Kar'Fi. The Recluse has flexibility on its side (the universal Cmd slot), but it does very little damage by itself (6 weapons, 2 tactical consoles). The JHDC is a top-class ship, and I certainly recommend it to engineer captains of all three factions, but I think the Fleet Kar'Fi will be a better addition to a PvE team, because of its complementarities with escorts (the scientific Cmd slot).
If we compare the pets, it seems that there is a consensus to prefer the Jem'Hadar attack frigate and the Fer'Jai frigate to any Tholian pets, including the Mesh Weavers (but we might speak of a minimal objective difference here).
We reach an approximate ex aequo between the JHDC and the Fleet Kar'Fi, and the clear third place for the Recluse. Personal preferences and some PvP team builds might of course matter a lot and change this ordering for a given player.
My impression in current practice of elite STF (I played a lot of elite STF recently for two new Romulan characters) was that the Kar'Fi was more or less on par with the JHDC right now. If that is true, the Fleet Kar'Fi will outperform the JHDC. Of course this is very subjective, dependent on the context and on the players flying the respective ships. It would be only logical (canon-wise) and fair that the klingon faction gets the best carrier...
You mean a carrier with super low hull, only 2 eng abilities, +15 total power and no system targeting is the best carrier in the game? Mmmhh...
If you were talking about the look i would definitely agree !
Can you explain why you rate it so high? Even though I'd really like the kar'fi to be the best it seems to me that the normal kar'fi is slightly below the carriers that are capable of running an aux2bat setup (like the mirror vo'quv/obelisk/JHEC).
JHEC isn't really in the same category, IMO. It's a single hangar escort, not a dual hangar carrier. The JHEC is fun, but it isn't the same kind of fun as a Kar'fi.
Obelisk looses out damage wise by having only a Lieutenant Tac officer as the top Tac possible, which mean no APO and only rank 1 of APB.
The Mirror Vo'Quv running Aux2Bat and Marion... that becomes interesting. The Mirror Vo'Quv Lt. Comm Tac spot becomes global cooldown, and the weapons drain a lot less energy plus get a small damage rider, versus the Kar'fis additional weapon hardpoint, more Tac consoles (+1 C-Store, +2 Fleet) being able to take advantage of Nukara Tier 4 rep, and slight additional flexibility of being able to run 2x different Ensign and Lieutenant Tac BOffs abilities. Mirror Vo'Quv running Aux2Bat pilots would have to time firing off Aux dependent Sci abilities or just go without, whereas a Kar'fi has them available all the time.
I wasn't thinking about the look, but since you mentionned it...
I was thinking about the number of tactical consoles, the best pets in the game (admittedly ex aequo with the Jem'Hadar frigates), the seventh weapon slot (some other carriers have only six) and the turn rate and inertia, slightly better than most other carriers. I will argue in the sequel that most carriers don't tank well anyway (except the Jem'Hadar ships) in spite of engineer BOff slots, so I think that the Kar'Fi's bridge officers are definitely one of the best configurations for a carrier.
To be clear, I don't think that the Fleet Kar'Fi will be the unique dominating carrier in the game. The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is optimal too, in a different way (a tanking capability but no science). These ships won't be chosen by the same captains : I would clearly recommend the Kar'Fi to a science captain and the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought to an engineer captain.
The ability to run an Aux2Batt build is certainly a nice feature of the Mirror Vo'Quv, Obelisk and Jem'Hadar carriers (both). The universal commander slot is certainly a nice feature of the Recluse. Yet the Kar'Fi has an offensive potential that is unmatched among the carriers, except by the Jem'Hadar carriers (which I would consider optimal as well).
The Obelisk suffers from the wasted commander problem in PvE (namely, the engineer commander can equip skills that are half as useful as tactical or scientific commander skills, e.g. attack pattern omega 3). The Mirror Vo'Quv and Recluse have only 2 tactical consoles, which is really sad. These three ships could be played as tanking carriers (since they have the engineer slots and hull requirements for a tank), but keeping the agro will be a problem. When most of the offensive output of the ship is provided by the pets, you cannot expect to tank well.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought and Heavy carriers are good tanks, the former with a cruiser feel, the latter with a destroyer feel (and fewer pets). The Kar'Fi is different but on an equal footing, it can't be played as a proper tank but it is a scientific ship with a great offensive potential. In my personal experience, I've seen Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts and Kar'fis provide the same kind of damage contribution to an elite STF group, so I assume that either the Kar'Fi's pilots are a bit better on average, or that the forthcoming Fleet Kar'Fi will be an inch better (from the viewpoint of damage) than the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought.
yes pls id much prefer improved boff layout than a extra console. for my beloved kar'fi
Indeed... the Dreadnaught has horrible tank and a wretched turn rate. The fighters you can get with it are junk so you need Elite Scorps which is fine but still a bit disappointing.
Also a Carrier, especially one as horribly slow as the Dreadnaught and the rest of them besides the Kar'Fi need the ability to slow down, hold, and shut down enemies to be very effective and with next to no Science not only does the Dread fail to have many heals but it has next to no holds or disabling abilities.
As you say it is kind of alright for an Engineer especially if all you want to do is kill structures and cubes with it but anything more dynamic then that and most every other carrier (besides maybe the Obelisk) is superior. Which is a bit rough considering that the Dread's console is AWESOME. I suppose if they had just made it a hulking battleship (LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN) then it would have gotten cruiser commands and would have been a lot more worthwhile (especially because then it would have probably gotten a turn of 7 at least).
As for the Kar'Fi, between its turn rate, fighters, sci abilities, invincibility, 4 forward weapons, tactical consoles, and power loadout it can easily best many other carriers in a fight and IS the King of Carriers with the Recluse trailing it. A fleet version would only up this ante but it could really use to get its Subsystem targeting back.
However... The truth has been stated before and will continue to be true: If you cannot take full advantage of a ship due to your skillset then it will never be any good for you. So if the Kar'Fi is too much to handle for a captain then it will not meet the standard set forth but the same is true of all ships.
I'm ecstatic that its now a fleet variant as well, though, it could use the 4 FSM instead of five, or if keeping the 5 FSM, give it at least two of the subsystem targetings (weapons/engines or weapons/shields). But that is just me and my twisted sense of idealism
Is there something in actual play that differs from theoretical expectations ? On paper, my impression is that it is the best carrier in the game (ex aequo with the much more expensive Jem'Hadar Dreadnought, maybe).
What about the turn rate, the inertia rating and the feeling that results from them ? Same feeling as the other carriers ?
Can we say something concrete now or should I wait a couple of weeks before bringing back the dinosaurs (ooops no sorry that's with the Voth, I got confused) ?
Necrothread. Bad idea bringing it back to life.
1) No other thread discusses the actual tests of the Kar'Fi ;
2) the latest contribution was only a month old ;
3) what would be the point of opening a new thread about the Kar'Fi since all the previous information is still relevant ?
Come on... Moderators, Necrothread here.
1) Create a new thread.
2) Posting on a thread a month old is necrothreading.
3) Opinions might have changed and you can still read this thread without posting.