recount of KDF pop?

jmaster29

So, Cryptic/PWE, could we have a recount of the KDF population?

iconians

jmaster29 wrote: »

So, Cryptic/PWE, could we have a recount of the KDF population?

What are your parameters for what constitutes as the KDF population?

Number of gold members with accounts that have a KDF character?

Number of gold members with accounts that have a KDF character at level 50? If not, then at what level?

Would you count each KDF character on an account or simply the account itself for having a KDF character on it? Would each KDF character have to be logged in for a certain period of time? Would you include Romulan characters in this who are allied with the KDF or intending to be allied with the KDF?

Number of silver members with accounts that have a KDF character? At level 1 or level 50?

Would you include the number of characters an account has, or simply the KDF characters alone? Would this include gold or silver members?

If you include silver members, would you count the ones who didn't spend money on the game?

What about when they last logged in? At what point in time would you start the census for the KDF population?

How many hours/days/weeks must a KDF character be actively online and playing to count?

Would you simply count prime playing hours? If so, would you discount european players whose hours are different from the continental U.S.?

Would you count KDF players who stopped playing but are/were active on the forums? If so, at what point in time would that census start?

Would you include KDF players who don't PvP?

Would you discount KDF players who only log on for a few hours to get their 8k dilithium and then log out immediately after?

Keep in mind, it's normally an MMO's policy to keep player numbers secret, so asking for a census is generally regarded as rhetoric. Whenever numbers are released, it's generally skewed in favor of said MMO based on certain parameters I mentioned. This isn't a Cryptic/PWE thing, this is a game industry thing.

drowrulesupreme

I'd settle for whatever parameters Cryptic/PWE used when they came up with their now "famous/infamous" 18% figure when describing how much of the player-base was KDF. I don't need to know what those parameters are.
I'm only curious because my fleet is called 18 Percent and I wonder if I should rename

Unknown

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iconians

drowrulesupreme wrote: »

I'd settle for whatever parameters Cryptic/PWE used when they came up with their now "famous/infamous" 18% figure when describing how much of the player-base was KDF. I don't need to know what those parameters are.
I'm only curious because my fleet is called 18 Percent and I wonder if I should rename

Fair enough. I wouldn't mind hearing an update on that either.

zipagat

I wonder how KDF aligned Romulans would factor into population counts now, that said I very much doubt it will change the devs attitude of ''KDF? Whats that ?''

bitemepwe

They should count every account that has an actively played KDF or KDF-Rom toon, even if its just a fed KDF farm toon.

chalpen

There is no such answer that makes sense.

100 percent of people play kdf at some point

As a main? How do you do define "main"? If a kdf is played 45% of the time is it disqualified?

IMHO a good way of doing it is: How many kdf vs how many fed did the crystalline entity?

But I dunno

tfomega

This makes sense...

In the last fiscal month....

Total Fed plus Fed/Rom played hours divided by total overall played hours*100 = Total Fed Percentage

and

Total KDF plus KDF/Rom played hours divided by total overall played hours*100 = Total KDF Percentage

This will give us a ratio of KDF hours to Fed hours which excludes counting total players, but showing how active each faction is...

Perhaps a month to month median or mean might also help to show trend analysis.

We know they keep track of this because of the /played command per character.

bitemepwe

Cryptic is fully capable of defining what Active means, though TFomega's idea seems less likely to fall into bias. Go with it.

krrja

How about creating a thread that doesn't turn KDF players away by implying that the server hates them?

I play KDF because I like doing so, but I facepalm every time I see players jump ship due to the latest "Cryptic hates us, KDF sucks" thread.

We've certainly had enough vinegar, it's obviously not working, try honey. By enticing players to come over to the KDF side and have fun, Cryptic would have no choice other than to create content where the players are. The formula is very simple, cryptic has limited resources, most of them are directed where the playerbase is.

I'm actually surprised that KDF gets as much as it does considering how much complaining is generated in contrast to Fed side. Personally I wouldn't waste time creating content for players who will only whine and complain anyway and devote my time elsewhere. But the developers for Cryptic are saints apparently and do so anyway.

If anyone is interested, rather than creating a number to justify ones own poor attitude, try getting more players KDF side.

thecosmic1

jmaster29 wrote: »

So, Cryptic/PWE, could we have a recount of the KDF population?

The 16% figure did nothing to help the KDF player-base on the forum when DStahl said it. In fact it simply turned the KDF into the minority in every forum debate. "Of course you're not going to get X. You're only 16% of the population! It's not worth it for Cryptic to spend money on you."

Having a new number isn't going to change anything. At best it's just going to reaffirm that they're still a minority compared to the Fed players, and nothing good will come from knowing a new number. The haters on both sides will just use the number as an excuse for whatever argument is being made.

iconians

thecosmic1 wrote: »

The 16% figure did nothing to help the KDF player-base on the forum when DStahl said it. In fact it simply turned the KDF into the minority in every forum debate. "Of course you're not going to get X. You're only 16% of the population! It's not worth it for Cryptic to spend money on you."

Having a new number isn't going to change anything. At best it's just going to reaffirm that they're still a minority compared to the Fed players, and nothing good will come from knowing a new number. The haters on both sides will just use the number as an excuse for whatever argument is being made.

Sad, but true.

shpoks

This wouldn't work. I'm not sure how Cryptic counted the numbers for that one infamous metric that has been thrown around for months even years, but I just don't see a way of clearly counting the population. Especially now the way Romulans have been brought to the game.

What defines a KDF player? Or a Romulan or for that matter even a Federation one?
Number of characters in a faction? Time played on character? What if I had 1 KDF char that I play 80% of the time and 8 Fed. chars that I play 20% of the time?

Where do you put multi-faction players, people that play in all the factions? How do you calculate the Romulans, having them allied to Feds and KDF? How many Romulans are Fed/KDF players that just wanted to try the warbirds and still have access to their primary faction? How many of them are real Romulan dedicated players?

There are just too many variables IMHO. Since this is not a game like for ex. A*I*O*N that basically locks you in the faction you choose, but one that encourages alts and trying all sides of the story, I'm not sure if there is a real proper way to get a solid count.
Maybe an estimate based on some parameters (probably what Cryptic already did back then), but as others have said, to what purpose?

alopen

shpoks wrote: »

This wouldn't work. I'm not sure how Cryptic counted the numbers for that one infamous metric that has been thrown around for months even years, but I just don't see a way of clearly counting the population. Especially now the way Romulans have been brought to the game.

What defines a KDF player? Or a Romulan or for that matter even a Federation one?
Number of characters in a faction? Time played on character? What if I had 1 KDF char that I play 80% of the time and 8 Fed. chars that I play 20% of the time?

Where do you put multi-faction players, people that play in all the factions? How do you calculate the Romulans, having them allied to Feds and KDF? How many Romulans are Fed/KDF players that just wanted to try the warbirds and still have access to their primary faction? How many of them are real Romulan dedicated players?

There are just too many variables IMHO. Since this is not a game like for ex. A*I*O*N that basically locks you in the faction you choose, but one that encourages alts and trying all sides of the story, I'm not sure if there is a real proper way to get a solid count.
Maybe an estimate based on some parameters (probably what Cryptic already did back then), but as others have said, to what purpose?

+1. I have 7 toons, 2 fed, 3 roms (1 fed + 2 KDf aligned) and 2 KDF toons. I normally split time among the toons 50% Rom, 40% KDF, 10% Fed. But I've been leveling a new fed toon so the last week is like 90% fed and 10% all others. In terms of money spent fed = zero (mostly out of spite, KDF deserve native (read Klingon) tier 5 c-store ships not bought through fleet modules), and I lost track of KDF/Roms, (probably intentional on my part since its way too much for a video game ). Either they count me as of one faction, and get it wrong since I split time or they remove me from list since I can't be labeled.

IMO if they counted everyone with a single KDF toon, then probably its the majority of the playerbase. The best they can do is count number of players who spend X amount of time on KDF toons over a specific period.

carasucia83

iconians wrote: »

What are your parameters for what constitutes as the KDF population?

Number of gold members with accounts that have a KDF character?

Number of gold members with accounts that have a KDF character at level 50? If not, then at what level?

Would you count each KDF character on an account or simply the account itself for having a KDF character on it? Would each KDF character have to be logged in for a certain period of time? Would you include Romulan characters in this who are allied with the KDF or intending to be allied with the KDF?

Number of silver members with accounts that have a KDF character? At level 1 or level 50?

Would you include the number of characters an account has, or simply the KDF characters alone? Would this include gold or silver members?

If you include silver members, would you count the ones who didn't spend money on the game?

What about when they last logged in? At what point in time would you start the census for the KDF population?

How many hours/days/weeks must a KDF character be actively online and playing to count?

Would you simply count prime playing hours? If so, would you discount european players whose hours are different from the continental U.S.?

Would you count KDF players who stopped playing but are/were active on the forums? If so, at what point in time would that census start?

Would you include KDF players who don't PvP?

Would you discount KDF players who only log on for a few hours to get their 8k dilithium and then log out immediately after?

Keep in mind, it's normally an MMO's policy to keep player numbers secret, so asking for a census is generally regarded as rhetoric. Whenever numbers are released, it's generally skewed in favor of said MMO based on certain parameters I mentioned. This isn't a Cryptic/PWE thing, this is a game industry thing.

In terms of what the OP is asking for, simply counting the number of toons is a pointless and misleading endeavor that will turn up erroneous results.

If we can monitor the average percentage of non Rom KDF toons at 3.5 hourly intervals over a period of 30 minutes during 3 months or so, it may give us an answer to the question. You can then divide up those toons into whatever categories you want, but the only way to determine population in a game where players can have many many toons is through a percentage count. If you want to spend longer, you can analyze average time per account, but I think a global count is sufficient to answer the OP's question since not all players have cross faction farmers. In fact, there are a great many players who are blissfully unaware that you can even mail yourself, much less transfer dilithium.

Most players I encounter play mostly on one side or the other but some will have and use (really use) toons on both. For Cryptic, population is about how profitable (really played) each side is, so it's the 'online-at-any-given-time' toon percentage count that's the important issue. They will never release actual figures, but I would be interested to see faction play percentages. What are the average online at a time toon percentages for FED, RRF and KDF?

I would wager:

44% Fed
29% KDF
24% RRF
2% for the love of damar give us cardassians already!!
1% Thank Shinzon I don't have to bother rerolling my fake alien fed/kdf rom since they're not a real faction anyway.

timezarg

drowrulesupreme wrote: »

I'd settle for whatever parameters Cryptic/PWE used when they came up with their now "famous/infamous" 18% figure when describing how much of the player-base was KDF. I don't need to know what those parameters are.
I'm only curious because my fleet is called 18 Percent and I wonder if I should rename

For anyone else interested, I believe that 'figure' came from Cryptic taking a headcount at conventions (i.e., how many people were there dressed as Klingons). That'll tell you just how valid that 'figure' was. . .even if it had the slightest bit of validity to it, it would only matter for determining how many people in the Trek community like to dress as Klingons. Completely useless for STO.

Federation trolls and asshats just took the figure and ran with it. I agree, we really don't need another figure pulled out of DStahl's nether regions.

johnsteward

Normalized playtime and not normalized playtime sounds like a good metric to me.

warmaker001b

Doesn't matter if they did a recount and post up active KDF players. Cryptic didn't care about the KDF playerbase when this game came out, back when we actually had far, far more players. And they still don't after almost 3 years of this game out with the barest of KDF development and with a smaller playerbase compared to when STO went live.

astro2244

You know when I first saw this post I thought it was about Klingon pop music. disappointing


(which btw if anyone has a link to Klingon pop music i'd like to see it)

khayuung

astro2244 wrote: »

(which btw if anyone has a link to Klingon pop music i'd like to see it)

Here.

astro2244

khayuung wrote: »

Here.

What have I done?! I think commander Kruge turned In his grave. :eek:

khayuung

astro2244 wrote: »

What have I done?! I think commander Kruge turned In his grave. :eek:

The internet was really why Q wanted to judge us badly.

tehbubbaloo

timezarg wrote: »

For anyone else interested, I believe that 'figure' came from Cryptic taking a headcount at conventions (i.e., how many people were there dressed as Klingons). That'll tell you just how valid that 'figure' was. . .even if it had the slightest bit of validity to it, it would only matter for determining how many people in the Trek community like to dress as Klingons. Completely useless for STO.

Federation trolls and asshats just took the figure and ran with it. I agree, we really don't need another figure pulled out of DStahl's nether regions.

this is my recollection as well. never mind how much easier it is to pull on a kirk shirt or slip spock ears on as opposed to making a proper klingon costume.

its not surprising that kdf content doesnt sell all that well; theres hardly any to buy! maybe try giving all those orion girls something to buy other than the klingon academy outfit for starters? perhaps something as minimal as a stats update on our cstore ships?

or just maybe stop giving all our toys away to the feddies?

doffingcomrade

Here's the truth: There are so many ways to massage any statistic that they're basically just going to pull a number ex recto and use it to support their chosen agenda. Whatever they choose to do, there's a number they can pull that justifies doing just that. Without any independent oversight of these numbers, they mean precisely nothing. A claim that cannot be independently verified is meaningless.

lordmalak1

Dan said many moons ago that the KDF population was a never changing constant. So the population remains the same, like Pi.

mimey2

People may have ran with that number in a bad way in the past, but if anything, I say...it's proof of just how much they are shooting themselves in the foot by letting so many of their customers feel so unappreciated and such.

Even if that 18% still was correct, think about it. That is almost a FIFTH of their playerbase potentially. That's a big number that they are just letting slip on by, and who are willing to buy things that aren't doing so (or sticking to non-faction things like master keys, bank slots, that kinda thing).

If it was a super-small number, like 5% tops of the player base who played KDF, I might understand it more, but as it stands, the KDF playerbase, at least going on that 18% figure whether it is true still or not, is a very significant minority that they are just ignoring.

People sometimes consider the devs to be 'Ferengi', but I disagree. No Ferengi worth his latinum would allow so many potential customers to slip through their fingers.

captainpugwash1

Play K.D.F. 90% of the time (not in a fleet) and cant find anything to buy that's any better than what i all ready got !!!!!!!,,,,,,,so no money off of me,,,,,,,,,,,,

newromulan1

mimey2 wrote: »

People may have ran with that number in a bad way in the past, but if anything, I say...it's proof of just how much they are shooting themselves in the foot by letting so many of their customers feel so unappreciated and such.

Even if that 18% still was correct, think about it. That is almost a FIFTH of their playerbase potentially. That's a big number that they are just letting slip on by, and who are willing to buy things that aren't doing so (or sticking to non-faction things like master keys, bank slots, that kinda thing).

If it was a super-small number, like 5% tops of the player base who played KDF, I might understand it more, but as it stands, the KDF playerbase, at least going on that 18% figure whether it is true still or not, is a very significant minority that they are just ignoring.

People sometimes consider the devs to be 'Ferengi', but I disagree. No Ferengi worth his latinum would allow so many potential customers to slip through their fingers.

I think they should put out a good new T5 tac ship and a new T5 Science ship + a set of costumes

Then if those don't sell enough to turn a profit - sadly it will be time to let the KDF drift off into the sunset - if they DO put out the stuff to buy and the KDF can't support it - then what good is the KDF to them business wise?

P.S I still love my KDF - but Business is business - nothing personal.

daan2006

do yall really want to know think about it could have gone up could find out it went down could find out now there is more romulans then kdf think about this very carefully you may find out even more bad new then the last time

burstdragon323

According to CaptainGeko in the 2nd part of the P1 podcast, he said that KDF numbers were up, though he failed to say how much.