Ranking/Ladder system to save PVP

mcduffie369

All we need is a basic ranking or ladder system to make pvp more enjoyable for newer players and old alike.

lter

PVP Tiers (not only in a eventual PVP Reputation) but taking into acount tiers in all reputations, cuality/colour of the gear, duties, and average dmg, score and utility (sci) in previous matches.

mcduffie369

If it calculated the gear quality people could join in low gear and then switch to high gear, or just use low gear and higher skill to steam roll noobs. It would have to be some scoring system that is calculated over time like StarCraft uses.

aquitaine985

I think you should journey to see the great emerald wizard.

mcduffie369

I think you shouldn't troll my thread if you don't have anything relevant to add...

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

I think you shouldn't troll my thread if you don't have anything relevant to add...

Well here is some relevant counterpoint then.

Ranking systems, and or tiered PvP will destroy the games PvP.

Its pretty simple really... this game doesn't have the population for that type of system. I know you say but if you build it they will come... but they won't... at least not 24/7. Like every other MMO that has tiered PvP.... for 2-3 peak hours on a Saturday it will work just fine. For every other hour of every other day of the weak the population will be to low... and either the que system will have to mis match people anyway. (and give people a huge reason to QQ) or not start matches at all (again massive reason to QQ).

Let me tell you what the real solution is.

Join Tyler Durden Chat channel for now... everyone is welcome. New Old Vet Good bad Ugly. We don't mind new people coming, we don't turn away vets that drive people nuts. We auto balance every challange match ourselves... and in general we have great epic close matches.

We have also been using Mancoms fantastic leaderboard system to as quickly as possible setup matches. He was nice enough to create for us a basic team creator that uses his leaderboard data base to come up with a balanced setup.

Long term the fix on Cryptics end... is to add to the game itself a return of basic data out of everyones log to there own server. They don't even have to create a leaderboard... which will just get gamed by the games D Bag portion of the population... however in the back ground that data could be used to do the same thing Mancoms teaming tool does for us... it could balance the teams. So both sides end up with as equal as possible in terms of healing / DMG / Debuffing / and the talent (as well as it can be measured).

Cryptic should honestly sit down with Mancom and pick his brain for a few hours. With in a weak they could fix the ques. These are the steps I would take to do that if it was my game;

1) Change what it means to Que as a team in the games public que. (there is a challange system where people can que as a full 5 mans to fight other 5 mans) When I say change it I say queing as a team means you get in the same map, not the same team per say.

2) Start collecting basic information needed to assign every player a number in the factors that can be used to achieve team balance. (talk to Mancom about it he has the experience with what works)

3) Add a team balancing tool to the ques. So that when people que up the system understands how to spin every single match to ensure the games are as good as they can be.

roxbad

mcduffie369 wrote: »

All we need is a basic ranking or ladder system to make pvp more enjoyable for newer players and old alike.

I support this idea.

Perhaps a 5 tier ranking?

Tie it to the individual player's win/loss ratio in each tier.

More wins than losses, player goes up a tier.

Wins and losses are balanced, player stays on current tier.

Losses exceed wins, player goes down a tier.

mcduffie369

StarCraft 2 has 2 game modes. A player can choose from ranked or unranked matches. We need a way for newer players to play without being steam rolled by uber pre-mades. There is no reason we can not have a ranking/ladder system.

captainedna

mcduffie369 wrote: »

There is no reason we can not have a ranking/ladder system.

yes there is.If 2 spoiled people who play pvp say you should not have a pvp ranking system like all other mmos you should not have one.:rolleyes:

maicake716

mcduffie369 wrote: »

StarCraft 2 has 2 game modes. A player can choose from ranked or unranked matches. We need a way for newer players to play without being steam rolled by uber pre-mades. There is no reason we can not have a ranking/ladder system.

way to go there, so it really is "ohs noes the evil premades kill us!" all along!.

mcduffie369

Yes, the premades are a serious problem for new players. If we had larger scale pvp such as WOW it would not be so bad, but since we have small matches in which a single premade can shatter the group and hunt the scattered players for the rest of the kill counter there is a problem with people trying pvp, becoming discouraged, and never playing again. We need a way to ease a player into it. You can not advance in skill as it sits right now unless you join the premades because your pug team will get rolled on, and that is not always an option. The PVP community is crushing PVP with their lack of sportsmanship. We need a system in place to prevent further decay of moral for pvp by the majority of the community.

iconians

1. It won't save pvp.

2. A lot of effort on Cryptic's part would need to make pvp viable and enjoyable. This is effort they are not willing to put in. The pvp 'community' is simply not populated enough to warrant spending company resources improving the pvp experience. I don't care if anyone says "Well if they did, then it'd draw players!" or "They should have fixed it to begin with!" Sorry, Captain Hindsight. Your superpowers are no use here. The reality is there's just not a population to warrant heavy pvp attention. You can't take a time machine to the past to fix it. We can only look at the present and go from there.

3. Tiered pvp and Pvp ladders have been discussed before. Discussed. That's all. Nothing came of those discussions. There will be nothing to come of them now.

4. The only pvp community here is that which is run by players. OrganizedPvP, Tyler Durden, PvP Bootcamp, whatever. It's player-run, and you can join the rest of the masochists who actually get enjoyment out of the pvp content STO has.

5. lolpvp

mcduffie369

PVP can be saved. A single event can make it happen. Remember the Defera Invasion when it was only available 2 times a day? Why can't we have a large scale Fed vs KDF war 3 times a day with its own, custom rewards to spike intrest. There are ways to do anything but being negative is not one of them.

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

PVP can be saved. A single event can make it happen. Remember the Defera Invasion when it was only available 2 times a day? Why can't we have a large scale Fed vs KDF war 3 times a day with its own, custom rewards to spike intrest. There are ways to do anything but being negative is not one of them.

Its simple someone at Cryptic would have to care about doing that. They don't so there it is.

Really though it would be a massive mistake on there part to push tons of players to pvp right now.

I mean if you where running a theme park... and you had 100 attractions that where all ok... and you had 1 really unique one that everyone thought was cool in theory, however it hadn't had any maintenance done in 4 years.

Would it be a really great idea to offer some amazing incentive for everyone in the park to run over and jump on it ?

mcduffie369

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o691/akurie369/domination_zps5f6b93e8.png
Simple Domination map. Cryptic already has the tool to make this. They could build it in a week. There are ways. Expand, expand, expand!

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o691/akurie369/domination_zps5f6b93e8.png
Simple Domination map. Cryptic already has the tool to make this. They could build it in a week. There are ways. Expand, expand, expand!

People have been telling them that sort of stuff for 4 years... and the only thing they have done for PvP is add a challenge system, and remove a game type. I agree they could add all sorts of stuff new maps new game types new open zones. I don't mean to be debbie downer, don't get your hopes up. The chances of them adding anything really new are pretty low.

mcduffie369

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o691/akurie369/domination_zps5f6b93e8.png
Would be good as a war zone reform as well. We don't have to ask for much, but we have to ask. It is the negative comments by our community that has discouraged cryptic in the first place. We on the internet have a bad habit of being overly negative and condescending. We must give the Devs our support and positive suggestions instead of the normal "DOOM DOOM DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM' that is so common, generic, and harmful to our cause.

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o691/akurie369/domination_zps5f6b93e8.png
Would be good as a war zone reform as well. We don't have to ask for much, but we have to ask. It is the negative comments by our community that has discouraged cryptic in the first place. We on the internet have a bad habit of being overly negative and condescending. We must give the Devs our support and positive suggestions instead of the normal "DOOM DOOM DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM' that is so common, generic, and harmful to our cause.

Don't buy that propaganda.

WE ARE NOT responsible for Cryptic not creating PvP content.

CRYPTIC is responsible for not creating PvP content.

So what if the guys that enjoy STFs wine to much Cryptic will stop tweaking them and will never ever create another. That will show em damn winers.

Hey all of us have posted lots of our own ideas and complained and asked over and over for 4 years. Do people get frustrated when nothing changes after 192 weekly patches... well ya what do you think.

IF a football or hockey or any other spots team has a bad year and the fans get on them for it... do they say the following year Scre* you we aren't changing nothing... if we suck again its all your fault you should have been nicer.

If the developers skins at Cryptic are that thin... then the guy in charge needs to tell them they are not allowed to read the forums or have there chat windows open when they play the game. So they can do there jobs.

Myself I am glad to see you in the forums btw... welcome to the pvp subsection. Please continue to post your constructive ideas. Lots of people are going to disagree on the idea of a ranking and ladder system, as it has failed terribly in other games over the years. Still appreciate the new blood here thanks, and your right every voice helps.

g0h4n4

mcduffie369 wrote: »

StarCraft 2 has 2 game modes. A player can choose from ranked or unranked matches. We need a way for newer players to play without being steam rolled by uber pre-mades. There is no reason we can not have a ranking/ladder system.

You can still get steam rolled in un ranked matches too, especially those that have reached the highest tiers already and not looking for points

vsilverwings1

Scoring system wouldn't encourage me to pvp and may even put me off. Whenever I've seen these multiplayer systems put in place it leads to the top X players having an impossible score like doing a mission in 0:00:01 seconds....yeah nothing wrong there. The point is this leads to people finding ways to abuse the system; farming kills or bailing from a pvp before death. As long as people are top of the rankings they don't care how they get there or what people think. Casual players may give up altogether because they can't keep up with the hardcore pvpers.

Premade vs casual pvpers, unbalanced/PvE geared abilities being used in a PvP environment...I really don't see how any scoring system bolted on to the pvp system we have right now would make it better. I like pvp and I'm good at it so I'm not anti or TRIBBLE pvper I just have other things I'd rather do considering the state of the pvp as it is now.

Fix the system first, then build on it.

aquitaine985

You must be new here ^_^

-Cryptic could do a lot of things if they had the incentive. There have literally been HUNDREDS of threads full of good ideas.

But our ideas don't pay their bills.

Until Cryptic get off their backsides and spend however much time it takes, to get however much money is required, to give however much Dev time is needed, to test by normal and PvP centric players - we will not see any new maps, nor game types, nor significant balance check, nor queue separation to moderate premades, nor official properly run Cryptic/PWE/B'Flakes run events or community run workshops.

havam

I still think that a gear-score system is the way to go.Maybe take player class into consideration.

If 10 People are in the queues, the match starts no matter what the gear score, just with an attempt at balance distribution of player classes.

Spam heavy builds and teams would meet their kind, and people with mk x white in non-fleet ships would have a higher chance of meeting other new toons.

If people want to get their accolades and have unshielded FvK ground matches that is fine. But putting those people in the top ground pvp brackets, my cause problems.

As for the likelyhood of any of that ever beig implemented by cryptic...see my sig

g0h4n4

aquitaine985 wrote: »

You must be new here ^_^

-Cryptic could do a lot of things if they had the incentive. There have literally been HUNDREDS of threads full of good ideas.

But our ideas don't pay their bills.

Until Cryptic get off their backsides and spend however much time it takes, to get however much money is required, to give however much Dev time is needed, to test by normal and PvP centric players - we will not see any new maps, nor game types, nor significant balance check, nor queue separation to moderate premades, nor official properly run Cryptic/PWE/B'Flakes run events or community run workshops.

+1 to ^^^

No point in wasting time, they aint going to do anything to help, they haven't done much since beta.

mcduffie369

I often wonder how many people who are active on the forum are even active on the game anymore. I use the forum to encourage growth while most seem to use is to discourage any kind of action. Be positive people. Instead of saying "Oh, they won't do anything... bla, bla, bla... doom, doom, doom..." try throwing some ideas into the pot. If an idea is popular enough and generates enough positive feed back it may come to life, but from what I can see positive feedback is a concept alien to most forum users. Once upon a time people knew how to communicate in ways that where helpful.

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

I often wonder how many people who are active on the forum are even active on the game anymore. I use the forum to encourage growth while most seem to use is to discourage any kind of action. Be positive people. Instead of saying "Oh, they won't do anything... bla, bla, bla... doom, doom, doom..." try throwing some ideas into the pot. If an idea is popular enough and generates enough positive feed back it may come to life, but from what I can see positive feedback is a concept alien to most forum users. Once upon a time people knew how to communicate in ways that where helpful.

Well you can't blame people for being realistic at this point. I know that sounds horrible. Seriously though go back to the very first page of the PvP section... and scroll through that page and the next...

Guess what all the stuff you are talking about is there.

Lots of other great ideas there to...

I noticed on the first page of the PvP section... someone mentioned before launch almost 4 years ago that we shouldn't all spawn together at the same point. They just changed that like a month ago. lmao

Cryptic has made there feelings about PvP very clear over 4 years... they have none. There was a plan at one point before the game launched. Eti E sector was intended to be a sector at war... it had Kerrat And Otha... and planets that where place holders that launched the que (they still do I think). K7 and Ganalda both had PvP gear vendores. (which have since been removed).

I know it sucks... but we pretty much have to play what we got cause they won't be changing things.

So by all means throw out your ideas... ya never now some dev with spare time might decide to flesh one of them out... seriously though don't get your hopes up. The number of changes made on purpose to PvP game play in 4 years can be counted on one hand.

mcduffie369

They should give their engine out to select volenteers to create content for review :l

aquitaine985

mcduffie369 wrote: »

I often wonder how many people who are active on the forum are even active on the game anymore. I use the forum to encourage growth while most seem to use is to discourage any kind of action. Be positive people. Instead of saying "Oh, they won't do anything... bla, bla, bla... doom, doom, doom..." try throwing some ideas into the pot. If an idea is popular enough and generates enough positive feed back it may come to life, but from what I can see positive feedback is a concept alien to most forum users. Once upon a time people knew how to communicate in ways that where helpful.

I applaud your sense of positivity. I do. And I hark back to when I had that too.

Ship back let's say a month of threads in this forum section. Count the threads made by the doom-sayers as you view them, and see how they fare.

The last time a Dev was sacrificed to PvP, the forums were awash with dozens of threads made nearly on a daily basis. You'd have threads that speculated on new maps, threads that bashed out new game types - some from other games, you'd see threads that went on with dozens of pages about which maps are broken, how the breaks were caused, how they could be fixed and how the people who tested it got their findings so Devs could replicate and fix. You'd see threads about useless ships, consoles and powers and how the testing done could show ways of making them competitive. Threads of people composing lists of things that needed attention, and why. It was about a month where we as a community had somebody to work with. And it was AMAZING. The Dev would update us on his work load, ask people to test things for him to review, ask the community as a whole to behave themselves and find their opinion.

He left the company about a month or two after being given the job. We were told a new Dev was replacing him. We never found out his name, or what he was doing.

I don't think you, me, or anyone else is in a position to say "Shame on you for not being positive" in the face of nearly 4 years of PVP that's actually seen more content taken away then has been released. When the biggest fix for our existing playground (Kerrat) was done by a Dev in his spare time.

antoniosalieri

mcduffie369 wrote: »

They should give their engine out to select volenteers to create content for review :l

Yes that is a good idea. I think there are issues with the engine in creating PvP maps honestly. Just guessing it seems though that the PvP maps where not created in the same way as newer maps are... I don't think there foundry tool can create pvp maps with out a major rewrite.

It would be very nice though if Cryptic would add PvP options to the foundry and allow players to create new maps at least. Even if we could only use them in challange mode or something.

g0h4n4

antoniosalieri wrote: »

Yes that is a good idea. I think there are issues with the engine in creating PvP maps honestly. Just guessing it seems though that the PvP maps where not created in the same way as newer maps are... I don't think there foundry tool can create pvp maps with out a major rewrite.

It would be very nice though if Cryptic would add PvP options to the foundry and allow players to create new maps at least. Even if we could only use them in challange mode or something.

Love to have battles over a well created Earth or a battle over Qonos, epic HD maps.

But reality kicks in, no, zip, zero.. end of really, that sums up PVP's attention from the Dev's atm.

They really are missing out on a pot of gold the PVP community. Where competitions sponsored by well known tech firms like Intel/AMD/ Nvidia could be held for world finals. This happens to other games like Battlefield 3, Counter strike and Star Craft 2.

Shame they don't see the bigger picture and let the PVP rot. The community is the only thing keeping it alive.

I've even had to change to the Fed side to get any PVP as the Klinks weren't popping in the queues too often and the quality is often poor and too cheese for my liking

captainedna

maicake716 wrote: »

way to go there, so it really is "ohs noes the evil premades kill us!" all along!.

yesterday from 10 matches 9 were premade groups .Even if I set as a rule "warp out when premades want to stomp pugs" no longer works because I cant get my daily dili and fm.You still need 3 matches for the daily.

EDIT : add another 5 today.Not going to waste my time trying another 5 times ,I'm going to play watch a movie tonight

mcduffie369

A single premade in the Q can shut it down for hours. PVP has been made so unpopular by their unsportsman like tactics that the numbers are just too low. The only fix for this is a ranking/ladder system since we can not expect the premades to pull their punches on the new guys. With a ranking system you will see interest in pvp increase due to the new players feeling that they can enter the match and face other players of their skill level and not face the premades for what will turn into a spawn hunt/camping scenario.