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RIP A-10. Homage Rapter "War Targ" plz? :D
jnohd
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/09/18/air-force-mourns-likely-passing-of-a-10-warthog/?comp=700001076338&rank=6
The A-10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" is finally done. So sad, such an ugly, awesome, nearly indestructible platform, doomed because of its single-mission role.
I would love to see STO pay homage to it with a Bortasqu' Autocanon in a beautifully ugly Raptor. It would certainly make up for pivot issues if a combination of strengthened hull and melting disruptor Autocannon were available.
The A-10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" is finally done. So sad, such an ugly, awesome, nearly indestructible platform, doomed because of its single-mission role.
I would love to see STO pay homage to it with a Bortasqu' Autocanon in a beautifully ugly Raptor. It would certainly make up for pivot issues if a combination of strengthened hull and melting disruptor Autocannon were available.
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A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
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Post edited by jnohd on
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Heck, the KDF would probably use the original if they could. "Wait, so the humans built an aircraft that was just a giant gun, engines, and armor? Where the fanciest electronics on board were a pair of night-vision binoculars, and the pilot navigated with a map in his lap and a compass on the dash? And they retired it? What the hell is WRONG with them?"
It's not sexy like Air to Air.
So the JSF is going to be produced in lower numbers, higher cost per unit, and it's supposedly going to replace the USAF's F-16's, USN's/USMC's F/A-18's, USMC's AV-8 fleets. And that's not counting friendly nations that ponied up ALOT of money for the JSF's development, in hopes of a high-tech, stealthy, multirole, low cost aircraft. I'm damn sure it's not going to be the latter, and our friends I'm sure are happy with the ever increasing costs per unit of this jet. It's supposed to be the epitome of a stealthy, multirole aircraft, to include models doing VTOL operations, something the USMC and British have specified. All this!... Sure. And I'm going to wake up a billionaire tomorrow and find a beautiful supermodel wife next to me in bed, and walk into my garage and find my Lamborghini.
On a related note, all the USAF's money for aircraft is going into the F-22. And even then, it cannot even begin to replace a fraction of the scope and area that the venerable F-15's have covered for decades.
The USAF will get its modern fleet eventually, but it will be much, much smaller and history will see if that small fleet can cover the responsibilities that its older "teen" fighters have covered across the world.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Seconded. Would like :P
I can confirm that it has just almost caused a Dutch government to fall, again, because the ruling coalition finally decided to buy 37 JSF's (rather than the 80-something they originally wanted) to replace our 90-120 (depending on if you count planes being used to get spare parts) tired F-16's. Decision still needs to make to through our 2 chambers of parliament (Congress and a law-analysing body).
Let's just say that the continuous stream of bad news and additional cost riles up both the opposition and the supporters of the 2 ruling parties alike. Majority of people is arguing for either a European alternative (Saab Gripen, for one) or even some high tech helicopters instead, so we can, maybe, you know, not shrink every other part of our armed forces due to huge budget cuts :P We're even selling a state of the art amphibian support vessel we've developed recently, that hasn't even been fully commissioned yet. The Russians might be interested, it seems.
And let's be honest, if the Dutch are going to be in a situation where the most high tech fighters are need, those 37 JSF's won't save us. We tend to only get involved in NATO stuff against underorganised and underequipped rebels - I'd say a selection of some good quality choppers would be just as useful, if not moreso, while we can probably get jet fighter support from allies that can afford to have more than 4 operational at a time (which is the target our government is aiming for, according to recent reports).
We had actually updated the systems in our planes so they where state of the art but the airframes where shot from years of service and try as we might we could not buy the rights to build our own versions of the Airframes.
The A10 does have a fond place in my heart as it's such an iconic plane and I can always recognise the silhouette.
As for the idea of an upgraded Raptor with a Gatling weapon, You had me at new Raptor. Universal Ensign and 5 Tac Consoles please. Of course nobody will buy a Qin or Somraw with this baby in play. We are the only faction without a 5 console escort. The Romulans have one which can Battle Cloak. The Feds have 2 (F-AE, F-TER) and the F-TER can cloak with a console.
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i'd like to take the idea of a "gatling cannon" a little further...
imagine a 3 set K'vort (5 forward weapon each, and 1 tac version with 5 tac consoles) pack, with 3 piece console set and a "RApid launching photon torpedo tube" (which is inside the middle of the deflector dish in the head part of the ship)
now this torp launcher i imagine similar to the omega torp launcher, fireing a projectile each second with a dps value above 1500, or even more.
the consoles would interact with this launcher similar as the andorian escort.
that would be my, "wartarg"
the 3 ships would come with a battlecloak and one of the consoles would be a spread mode, where each second 3 torpedos are launched at 3 sepeerate targets...2 minute cooldown
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I whole heartedly support a KDF Wartarg idea.
R.I.P
As much as I would loved to see a bolstered Air Force. If future wars are being fought in cell styled terrorist cells vs. special ops teams and also through hacking the other guys computers, air power is going to see a limited scope future.
Memory Alpha's entry:
"The Raptor's outer hull was reinforced with a type of coherent molecular alloy made it capable of withstanding atmospheric pressure of 15,000 GSC, or that found in a class 9 gas giant, at an approximate depth of two kilometers. Overall, the Raptor's hull was twice as thick as that of Starfleet's NX-class."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Raptor_class
The Ship & Shuttle Requisition Officer (when asked to tell more about Raptors):
"Raptors are about firepower.
They don't have the room for extensive engineering or medical facilities. But their weaponry means that their crew is seldom as risk, and their speed makes them hard to hit. The Raptors most powerful weapons are mounted at the fore of the craft, and a hit from a forward facing raptor will make almost any opponent notice."
http://www.zam.com/wiki/Raptors_%28STO%29
Ever since reading both of those two entries, I'd thought of the Raptor as that heavy armored, hard hitting A-10 of the KDF.
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It seems quite clear to me that no one here has actually worked up-close and personal with the A-10(patrickngo being the exception). Who is getting most of the kills today? You control the skies so that the enemy can't drop bombs on the ground pounders. Your ground forces are more effective when they have overwatch from above. The need for close air support will always exist as long as there is a need for forces on the ground. And you can't win a war without boots on the ground holding territory. Those nations that ignore this do so at their peril.
Also, while the A-10 is geared primarily for ground support, it CAN do air to air combat just as interceptors do, only they are not as efficient at it. Interceptors can do ground support, but they can only fire off a few shots before they are done. All in all, the A-10 can do the F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35's job better than the later can do the job of the former.
The air to air interceptors haven't had a real fight since Gulf War 1, and barely at that. Mark my words, the Air Superiority Fighter community will be in for a rude awakening when the PLAAF (People's Liberation Army Air Force, Red China) decides to challenge America's dominace. They have yet to reveal their trump card, one that they are specifically gearing to be a Raptor (F-22) killer. When they do, the West will be overconfident and that will cost the lives of many good men and women.
As to the KDF ship, I support more Fleet Raptors. It is a travesty that only the Qin and the Somraw are the only Fleet Refits avalabile.
There's hilarious story of General Horner going down to the air boss desks during Desert Stomping Ground and asking the F-15 guys if they'd shot anything down that day. No, they hadn't shot at any aircraft that day. General Horner then goes to the F-16 desk and asks them what they'd shot down for him today. Sorry sir, we haven't shot down any targets for you. He goes to the F-18 desk, no kills for the general. A/V-8 desk, the Marine Harriers haven't engaged any air targets today. On and on down the line through each of the fighter aircraft types in the inventory, and it's always the same story ... sorry sir, we haven't shot down anything today.
Then General Horner gets to the A-10 desk and asks them what they shot down today. The A-10 guy perks up and says, "We shot down two helicopters for you today, sir!"
General Horner then proceeds to kick up a big fuss in front of the F-15, F-16 and F-18 people in the HQ about how the A-10s can somehow find aircraft to knock out of the sky, but the supersonic interceptors aren't finding diddly squat ... essentially shaming the "pointy nosed fighter jocks" that the ground loving Warthogs are doing THEIR JOBS for them!
Before that war, General Horner had a son who was an air force pilot who quit flying supersonic fighters just so he could be an A-10 pilot ... and General Horner was so ashamed of this that he would often say that his son (who was very much alive and flying) had died in a motorcycle accident. Afterwards, General Horner had a newfound respect for what the A-10 could do ... which no other aircraft in the inventory had a HOPE of doing!
But the truth of the matter is that the USAF has *always* hated the Close Air Support role ... "mud moving" as they call it ... so it should come as no surprise that institutionally they've been looking for a reason/excuse to get rid of the A-10 for decades now. They never wanted to do the job of Close Air Support, because there's really "no glory" in it, unlike air-to-air fighter operations. Nobody becomes an "ace" by dropping bombs on the ground ... only by shooting down other aircraft.
Best possible thing that could come out of this is that if the USAF abandons the A-10 and sends them all to the Boneyard, the US Army should just write a requirement for the A-10 and put them back into service flying for the Army, rather than the USAF.
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It's been my understanding that these things were designed during the Cold War for when the USSR stormed across Eastern Europe in tanks and armored vehicles. That they could be easily repaired and relatively cheap to produce.
They do one job and they do it well.
This sounds great! Something like the disruptor autocannon from the Bortasqu' but with micro-photon torps.
KDF Tac: Bortasqu' Tactical
Fed Tac: Fleet Gal-X
Keep those big guns a-thunderin'
And the gist of the article in the OP is that, due to the budget issues, the USAF is fast running out of money to keep everything they've got, and the A-10, along with (I think) the KC-10 tanker are the first two aircraft on the list to be "retired" due to lack of funds to continue operations.
General in that story needs one of those demotivatonal triple-facepalms...
Okay General, how would you feel about facing the prospect of having a relative treated at an accident scene by a triage nurse instead of an EMT? I mean, that triage nurse can assess injuries "reasonably well"...
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I imagined it along similar lines to the Andorian and the new Romulan ships - perhaps a 2-piece set bonus from a disruptor Autocannon and an Armor console? Something that emulates the survivability of the A-10?
Someone here suggested it be a bit slower (low impulse multiplier), but faster turning, but I'm not sure if a direct lift has the same results.
Ideas:
High Hull
High Weapon power bonus
Shield Power bonus
Low/no impulse bonus (equal or less than 1.0 - cruiser speeds?)
High turn (better than some escorts?)
Autocanon Weapon (hull regen and/or hp set bonus?)
Armor console - high resists &/or crew survivability (hull regen and/or hp set bonus?)
5 forward weapon slots
5 Tac consoles
Cloak, but not battlecloak
Commander Tac
Lt Commander Eng
Lt Eng
Lt Tac (or Universal?)
Ensign Sci (or Universal?)
I was actually thinking a defensive mode instead of a set bonus - basically the opposite of go down fighting, where is increases resists based on hull damage.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
My understanding is that the Army has used that threat to brow-beat the USAF into keeping that aircraft in service. Along a similar line, it is the Army who pays the Air Force for the use of their weather forecasters so that the Army doesn't have to worry about training and maintaining them.
I know this isnt funny, but somehow this reminds me of selling fleet ships without the console.
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Ah... the F35 "multirole" fighter. If i may weigh in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPqbN7OooRg
The USAF is still has a card to play in the CAS role though.
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edit: and I do support the OP's idea.
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I have to voice a disagreement with your statement. While a hack may be possible for first and second-world enemies. It is far more effective to just jam those signals. No signal and the craft loses control.
A-10 gets hit by wide band jamming, and he finishes his mission(s) then flies home and gives people funny looks. "What jamming?"
And as to the A-10 being a serviceable air to air vehicle. Most aircraft today don't fly and fight at super sonic speeds. They get airborne and fire self guided missiles. Missiles that even the ugly little warthog can carry. So yeah it can give a yeoman performance in air to air in a pinch. But they are still the best air to ground role.
Oh and thinking on it. Instead of a slow, armoured k'vort, with blisters of weapons. Give it a b'rel with a built in spinal fast firing disruptor cannon. Add normal weapons from there.
C-store. I will buy one. Especially if they call it a Warthog.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
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