You fire a spread at 50 targets...it only hits several of them. So apparently, it's not a grenade.
thats target selecting. hit/miss happens to ships who actually got shots fired on them. and when the torps get in optimum proximity range they explode.
You fire a spread at 50 targets...it only hits several of them. So apparently, it's not a grenade.
Ahh, but all AoE attacks are limited to 5 targets, even self-destruct.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
thats target selecting. hit/miss happens to ships who actually got shots fired on them. and when the torps get in optimum proximity range they explode.
The HY splash works like a grenade...
The TS works like FAW in a sense...TS has the 100% to-hit issue that FAW did.
TS requires a target be selected (unlike FAW), but the additional targets are selected at random (like FAW). It's not like CSV.
It's broken like FAW was. Should be fixed like FAW was.
if your in a grenade's kill zone, and it goes off, should it have a chance to 'miss' you?
1) It's not a grenade. It's a torpedo (spread) that, in this game, can be fire from 10km.
2) Using RP or 'Real-Life' examples to justify mechanics in a Sci-fantasy game, drunk!?!? :P Are you still you?
The point is that this is an inconsistent mechanic with how all other weapons and weapons powers work.
The forums, in its ever present bi-polar silliness, has people happy that one inconsistent mechanic is soon to receive a nerf while simultaneously through fascinating examples of mental & moral contortion* are willing to accept a separate but equally inconsistent mechanic.
Ahh, but all AoE attacks are limited to 5 targets, even self-destruct.
You can drop a HY torp on a Carrier with 12 fighters out, hit not only the Carrier - not only the 12 fighters - but yourself as well. Drop a Beach Ball out, and you can blow up all 12 fighters - damage the Carrier and likely blow yourself up too.
1) It's not a grenade. It's a torpedo (spread) that, in this game, can be fire from 10km.
2) Using RP or 'Real-Life' examples to justify mechanics in a Sci-fantasy game, drunk!?!? :P Are you still you?
The point is that this is an inconsistent mechanic with how all other weapons and weapons powers work.
The forums, in its ever present bi-polar silliness, has people happy that one inconsistent mechanic is soon to receive a nerf while simultaneously through fascinating examples of mental & moral contortion* are willing to accept a separate but equally inconsistent mechanic.
*Another word for this, would be bias.
im not going for a no nerf i bias or anything, but other then torps simply not fireing at a potential target, how would they handle missing? instead of a proximity explosion causing miss to appear? thats the sillyness i was trying to get at. actually impacting a target would proboly be more difficult then getting close enough to explode and deal some damage anyway.
this skill isn't terribly concerning when you cant even direct the AOE explosions through a downed facing you have opened up. it would be a whole lot of work for very little return, 'fixing' this
im not going for a no nerf i bias or anything, but other then torps simply not fireing at a potential target, how would they handle missing?
Fix it the same way they fixed FAW.
It picks the target, it rolls to hit, it can still miss rather than it picks the target and it never misses.
I mean, c'mon - not all HY are single torps.
Fire a HY of Chrons, Trans, Photons, Quants, Bio-Molecular, etc, etc, etc...it fires a volley of torps at a target. They can miss. Call that Volley a Spread, it never misses.
Take a normal Tric, fire it at a target it. It can miss. TS2 that Tric, fire it at a single target, it fires a single Tric that does the same damage as that normal Tric would have...but it can't miss (can be shot, but it can't miss).
BO, FAW, BTS, CRF, CSV, HY...they can all miss. TS can't. It's broken.
It picks the target, it rolls to hit, it can still miss rather than it picks the target and it never misses.
I mean, c'mon - not all HY are single torps.
Fire a HY of Chrons, Trans, Photons, Quants, Bio-Molecular, etc, etc, etc...it fires a volley of torps at a target. They can miss. Call that Volley a Spread, it never misses.
Take a normal Tric, fire it at a target it. It can miss. TS2 that Tric, fire it at a single target, it fires a single Tric that does the same damage as that normal Tric would have...but it can't miss (can be shot, but it can't miss).
BO, FAW, BTS, CRF, CSV, HY...they can all miss. TS can't. It's broken.
I totally agree with you, but don't you think rom boffs need to be fixed first? With all the blipping going on sometimes (depending on gear and boffs), it's the only way to get a meaningful hit. I mean really, with no gear I can see a b'rel near me, but I'm not going to see that t'varo with those boffs. With lag, desync, game mechanics, just throwing out spam while blipping makes one almost unhitable. This leaves most players in a situation where that T'varo is untargetable and unseeable. With TS, at least, I can hit that T'varo.
Now again, if the game was setup in such a way where, with investment, at some cost, I could see that T'varo, then TS totally needs to be changed.
NOTE: Using the T'varo is just for my example. I'm not pointing out any specific player.
I totally agree with you, but don't you think rom boffs need to be fixed first? With all the blipping going on sometimes (depending on gear and boffs), it's the only way to get a meaningful hit.
While I think the RomBOFFs are a crime against every player of the game, according to Geko's recent interview - they're still researching the validity of such claims.
But still, by using a broken mechanic to fight a broken mechanic - you're creating the appearance of there being something that can be done in regard to that first broken mechanic - so it may not look as broken as it actually is...
I mean really, with no gear I can see a b'rel near me, but I'm not going to see that t'varo with those boffs. With lag, desync, game mechanics, just throwing out spam while blipping makes one almost unhitable. This leaves most players in a situation where that T'varo is untargetable and unseeable. With TS, at least, I can hit that T'varo.
Now again, if the game was setup in such a way where, with investment, at some cost, I could see that T'varo, then TS totally needs to be changed.
I don't want to name any names...but...
There's a guy that runs an AtB Chimera w/ CPB. The guy watches, sees where I blip and he's there - CPB. He doesn't let it go with that - he knows I'm going to bounce all over the place, be gone as I cloak again...so he sticks to me and drops another CPB. Most folks either CPB long after I'm gone or they CPB but never follow up. The one guy does it better than them.
There's a guy that I swear binds a target for me if he sees me, because he'll have the tractor on me before I even know I've blipped. Not only does he tractor me, but he sticks to me. Most folks drop the tractor, I'm outside the 5km in no time and they may as well not even bothered with the tractor in the first place. The one guy does it better than them.
There's a guy that runs a hunter-killer. He sees me blip - I don't know he's there until I hear the TDF...and then it's an OF/OS moment as I don't know which way to go. There are other guys that might wait for somebody to blip to try to get them, but the one guy does it better than them.
Willard himself...he's a Sci in his T'varo. He's usually waiting for folks to blip himself. I'm not as good as those other guys at doing it by any means...but yeah, I'm still going to drop out the Sensor Scan, SNB, VM on the blipper. Because Sci abilities don't roll to hit either (meh, I've complained about that quite a bit - even though Willard's basically built around that).
Does Willard sport TS? Yep, he does. Asking for that to be fixed would appear to be a case of asking for my own guy to be nerfed. Thing is, I mainly use the TS on pets - which I wouldn't be missing anyway. I hate the way that perception works for NPCs - even though they can't shoot at you, they still look at you. You can use pets to figure out where a cloaked player is to drop the CPB, etc, etc, etc. So I'm usually using the TS to take out a bunch of pets. Sure, it also means that TS gets used against players as well - but if something is broken, it's broken...it wouldn't be the first thing that I've asked to be fixed (which in turn gets called a nerf) that I use.
But going back to the +Stealth stacking - yeah, I was there with folks complaining about it when they brought out the Embassy BOFFs - heck, there were issues where a B'rel wouldn't blip at all. Folks could sit at 0km and unload torps into you without you seeing them. Was happy with the March changes. When I noticed that it started stacking again sometime after LoR, I started complaining again.
With no BOFFs, Willard has 159 Stealth and a cloak of 5184.4 - he's getting +150 Stealth for being a Reman and +8.8 from the KHG Mk XII Deflector. He's at 125 Aux.
Add a BOFF with Sub, he's at 309 Stealth and a cloak of 5259.4...
Add another BOFF, he's at 459 Stealth and a cloak of 5334.4...
Add another BOFF, he's at 609 Stealth and a cloak of 5409.4...
That's all he can add. I still haven't bothered filling out his BOFFs yet...too tedious. Only two of them are Sub/Sup Op. He's got a Sub, a 2x Op (normal) for the other three.
If he had all five, he'd be at 909 Stealth with a cloak of 5559.4...
There are folks with points in Stealth, etc, etc, etc - that are pushing that higher. Even for Willard it's broken, no doubt about that.
Course, if he 5 Pips his Singularity...he's looking at -400 Stealth.
Course too, Willard the Rat is more of Willard the Gnat. I think I've healed more with him than I have with my other 8 guys combined. There's a guy out there, again, not going to mention names - he's mean lil' bugger in his Torp'varo - blip, dead target, and he's gone.
Bah, now I'm just rambling...I'm surprised I can still post after asking if I could report Geko for trolling...heh.
this skill isn't terribly concerning when you cant even direct the AOE explosions through a downed facing you have opened up. it would be a whole lot of work for very little return, 'fixing' this
I wasn't specifically talking about you.
not mini has made this thread because, some players, are using this very specific mechanic to create instant kills on other players when they attempt to decloak or are already cloaked but have been spotted.
No ACC vs. DEF.
+50 DEF from Cloaking? Irrelevant.
Result?
Instant kill.
It's just typical forum hypocrisy, players rail against a mechanic that can kill in a few seconds and want to see it nerfed, but some of those same players seem to gleefully support a similar mechanic to use against a build type they are biased against.
not mini has made this thread because, some players, are using this very specific mechanic to create instant kills on other players when they attempt to decloak or are already cloaked but have been spotted.
No ACC vs. DEF.
+50 DEF from Cloaking? Irrelevant.
Result?
Instant kill.
It's just typical forum hypocrisy, players rail against a mechanic that can kill in a few seconds and want to see it nerfed, but some of those same players seem to gleefully support a similar mechanic to use against a build type they are biased against.
my goal is not to be hypocritical here man, im not someone using TS at all. to exploit or dump uselessly at targets with online shields. im done with my attempts to use torpedoes on any tactical ships.
ive never seen what you mention happen, but brels are oh so kill able by anything. i hesitate to sound an alarm if something pops one out of the blue.
but, now i do see there is a potential problem, especially with subterfuge stealth not stacking here soon. a detector boat with max buffed sensors and torp damage with TS3 going after battlecloakers, that sounds pretty close to doubletap exploit territory. torps can be quite op, if shields didn't exist at all. what a total mess cryptic has on its hands, regarding torps.
my goal is not to be hypocritical here man, im not someone using TS at all. to exploit or dump uselessly at targets with online shields. im done with my attempts to use torpedoes on any tactical ships.
but, now i do see there is a potential problem, especially with subterfuge stealth not stacking here soon. a detector boat with max buffed sensors and torp damage with TS3 going after battlecloakers, that sounds pretty close to doubletap exploit territory. torps can be quite op, if shields didn't exist at all. what a total mess cryptic has on its hands, regarding torps.
Correct. Actually we saw this in the most recent No BS tournament.
Several variations of Snooper builds, including Sci/Tvaros who remained cloaked themselves, who would use Torp Spread to do exactly what you describe.
but, now i do see there is a potential problem, especially with subterfuge stealth not stacking here soon. a detector boat with max buffed sensors and torp damage with TS3 going after battlecloakers, that sounds pretty close to doubletap exploit territory. torps can be quite op, if shields didn't exist at all. what a total mess cryptic has on its hands, regarding torps.
What I find amazing though are people who live in glass houses throwing stones.
Just in case this is aimed at me, seeing as you're using my wording, I wouldn't want anyone reading to be misled or confused.
> Try finding any posts where I've disagreed with the double tap changes directly.
> Try finding where I've called any specific mechanic an exploit.
If mechanics that allow for "instant kills" and exceptionally high stealth values are "unfair" or "poor game-play" (paraphrasing a.hawk)...
then
Mechanics that allow for exceptionally high perception, and Torpedo auto-hits on targets that don't have shields are equally "unfair" and "poor game-play".
If anyone here wants to take a stab at a logical argument that states otherwise, good luck with that, you're going to need it.
not mini has made this thread because, some players, are using this very specific mechanic to create instant kills on other players when they attempt to decloak or are already cloaked but have been spotted.
No ACC vs. DEF.
+50 DEF from Cloaking? Irrelevant.
Result?
Instant kill.
It's just typical forum hypocrisy, players rail against a mechanic that can kill in a few seconds and want to see it nerfed, but some of those same players seem to gleefully support a similar mechanic to use against a build type they are biased against.
Typical. A mechanic is found against your setups and you Q.Q. about it.
Where are the calls for adapting now? When MT was lolling about the poor noobs who don't take EPTS3 on their healers.
Just in case this is aimed at me, seeing as you're using my wording, I wouldn't want anyone reading to be misled or confused.
> Try finding any posts where I've disagreed with the double tap changes directly.
> Try finding where I've called any specific mechanic an exploit.
If mechanics that allow for "instant kills" and exceptionally high stealth values are "unfair" or "poor game-play" (paraphrasing a.hawk)...
then
Mechanics that allow for exceptionally high perception, and Torpedo auto-hits on targets that don't have shields are equally "unfair" and "poor game-play".
If anyone here wants to take a stab at a logical argument that states otherwise, good luck with that, you're going to need it.
None of these builds would have happened if you guys didn't milk your lame vape premades to the maximum.
Who wants to play against guys who run Theta, EWP, and nuke off every alpha, all the while being setup to get killed by one guy?
I don't mind playing against cheese setups, but I can sympathise with those who don't.
I am not sure whether spread should remain at 100% acc or not but I think a larger part of the issue is this games stealth/perception system.
Cloak needs to give a perception penalty to the user, and/or stealth detection skills should give a stealth penalty to the user.
Even ships with enhanced battle cloak should have to monitor their systems so they aren't emitting signals that would give away their position, like running sensors on full blast and emitting all those tachyon particles, it makes no sense that they can do this while cloaked now, and if they do it should make them easy to detect.
The best snoopers should be uncloaked sci ships, not cloaked warbirds.
Fix the stupid stealth stacking, and it will weaken both vape builds and detector builds. Especially if the non-cloakers are heavily employing anti-cloak, and detection in their setups.
Making the detection builds **** without fixing the boffs, would be the most moronic thing Cryptic has ever done.
The detection builds without cloak are questionable as well. It's not hard to let a teammate know to stay out of range while the SS wears out.
In fact, that's what the vapers do now, stay 15-20km out of range, until ready.
I am not sure whether spread should remain at 100% acc or not but I think a larger part of the issue is this games stealth/perception system.
Cloak needs to give a perception penalty to the user, and/or stealth detection skills should give a stealth penalty to the user.
Even ships with enhanced battle cloak should have to monitor their systems so they aren't emitting signals that would give away their position, like running sensors on full blast and emitting all those tachyon particles, it makes no sense that they can do this while cloaked now, and if they do it should make them easy to detect.
The best snoopers should be uncloaked sci ships, not cloaked warbirds.
They've got the mechanic for the Singularity Cores...if you're at 5 pips, you're sporting -400 Stealth...but that's the only thing I'm aware of in the game that reduces Stealth like that.
They've got the mechanic for the Singularity Cores...if you're at 5 pips, you're sporting -400 Stealth...but that's the only thing I'm aware of in the game that reduces Stealth like that.
As I stated earlier, feel free to peruse the forums and find where I've posted any particular thing was an exploit.
What calls for adapting? I didn't start this thread.
I'm responding to the issue that Torp Spread's auto hit should be brought in line with other normal mechanics, since it seems that's the road we might be taking soon - outlier mechanics brought in line.
None of these builds would have happened if you guys didn't milk your lame vape premades to the maximum.
Sorry if you dislike the decloak alpha mechanic. It is what it is and not even the new BO changes will remove it from the game.
The decloak vape builds came about as one part efficiency and one part necessity, playing a visible escort at this point in the game means you get to have most of your APAs nuked off, be constantly controlled with viral, etc.
Since it's missed your attention, if Hawk goes through and this BO change is part of a larger re-balancing to bring extremes more towards the center of play - I'm all for it, I've said this repeatedly nowin multiple threads.
If it's just caving in to tears while not addressing any other broken mechanics over the long term - then it doesn't make sense and isn't really part of a positive process going forward.
Comments
You fire a spread at 50 targets...it only hits several of them. So apparently, it's not a grenade.
thats target selecting. hit/miss happens to ships who actually got shots fired on them. and when the torps get in optimum proximity range they explode.
Ahh, but all AoE attacks are limited to 5 targets, even self-destruct.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
The HY splash works like a grenade...
The TS works like FAW in a sense...TS has the 100% to-hit issue that FAW did.
TS requires a target be selected (unlike FAW), but the additional targets are selected at random (like FAW). It's not like CSV.
It's broken like FAW was. Should be fixed like FAW was.
1) It's not a grenade. It's a torpedo (spread) that, in this game, can be fire from 10km.
2) Using RP or 'Real-Life' examples to justify mechanics in a Sci-fantasy game, drunk!?!? :P Are you still you?
The point is that this is an inconsistent mechanic with how all other weapons and weapons powers work.
The forums, in its ever present bi-polar silliness, has people happy that one inconsistent mechanic is soon to receive a nerf while simultaneously through fascinating examples of mental & moral contortion* are willing to accept a separate but equally inconsistent mechanic.
*Another word for this, would be bias.
You can drop a HY torp on a Carrier with 12 fighters out, hit not only the Carrier - not only the 12 fighters - but yourself as well. Drop a Beach Ball out, and you can blow up all 12 fighters - damage the Carrier and likely blow yourself up too.
There's a difference between AoE and multitarget.
im not going for a no nerf i bias or anything, but other then torps simply not fireing at a potential target, how would they handle missing? instead of a proximity explosion causing miss to appear? thats the sillyness i was trying to get at. actually impacting a target would proboly be more difficult then getting close enough to explode and deal some damage anyway.
this skill isn't terribly concerning when you cant even direct the AOE explosions through a downed facing you have opened up. it would be a whole lot of work for very little return, 'fixing' this
Fix it the same way they fixed FAW.
It picks the target, it rolls to hit, it can still miss rather than it picks the target and it never misses.
I mean, c'mon - not all HY are single torps.
Fire a HY of Chrons, Trans, Photons, Quants, Bio-Molecular, etc, etc, etc...it fires a volley of torps at a target. They can miss. Call that Volley a Spread, it never misses.
Take a normal Tric, fire it at a target it. It can miss. TS2 that Tric, fire it at a single target, it fires a single Tric that does the same damage as that normal Tric would have...but it can't miss (can be shot, but it can't miss).
BO, FAW, BTS, CRF, CSV, HY...they can all miss. TS can't. It's broken.
I totally agree with you, but don't you think rom boffs need to be fixed first? With all the blipping going on sometimes (depending on gear and boffs), it's the only way to get a meaningful hit. I mean really, with no gear I can see a b'rel near me, but I'm not going to see that t'varo with those boffs. With lag, desync, game mechanics, just throwing out spam while blipping makes one almost unhitable. This leaves most players in a situation where that T'varo is untargetable and unseeable. With TS, at least, I can hit that T'varo.
Now again, if the game was setup in such a way where, with investment, at some cost, I could see that T'varo, then TS totally needs to be changed.
NOTE: Using the T'varo is just for my example. I'm not pointing out any specific player.
Lies! You're hating on Willard...poor ol' Willard.
Heh, kidding - there are a bunch of people that blip around far better than I do with Willard...I'm a noob by comparison.
While I think the RomBOFFs are a crime against every player of the game, according to Geko's recent interview - they're still researching the validity of such claims.
But still, by using a broken mechanic to fight a broken mechanic - you're creating the appearance of there being something that can be done in regard to that first broken mechanic - so it may not look as broken as it actually is...
I don't want to name any names...but...
There's a guy that runs an AtB Chimera w/ CPB. The guy watches, sees where I blip and he's there - CPB. He doesn't let it go with that - he knows I'm going to bounce all over the place, be gone as I cloak again...so he sticks to me and drops another CPB. Most folks either CPB long after I'm gone or they CPB but never follow up. The one guy does it better than them.
There's a guy that I swear binds a target for me if he sees me, because he'll have the tractor on me before I even know I've blipped. Not only does he tractor me, but he sticks to me. Most folks drop the tractor, I'm outside the 5km in no time and they may as well not even bothered with the tractor in the first place. The one guy does it better than them.
There's a guy that runs a hunter-killer. He sees me blip - I don't know he's there until I hear the TDF...and then it's an OF/OS moment as I don't know which way to go. There are other guys that might wait for somebody to blip to try to get them, but the one guy does it better than them.
Willard himself...he's a Sci in his T'varo. He's usually waiting for folks to blip himself. I'm not as good as those other guys at doing it by any means...but yeah, I'm still going to drop out the Sensor Scan, SNB, VM on the blipper. Because Sci abilities don't roll to hit either (meh, I've complained about that quite a bit - even though Willard's basically built around that).
Does Willard sport TS? Yep, he does. Asking for that to be fixed would appear to be a case of asking for my own guy to be nerfed. Thing is, I mainly use the TS on pets - which I wouldn't be missing anyway. I hate the way that perception works for NPCs - even though they can't shoot at you, they still look at you. You can use pets to figure out where a cloaked player is to drop the CPB, etc, etc, etc. So I'm usually using the TS to take out a bunch of pets. Sure, it also means that TS gets used against players as well - but if something is broken, it's broken...it wouldn't be the first thing that I've asked to be fixed (which in turn gets called a nerf) that I use.
But going back to the +Stealth stacking - yeah, I was there with folks complaining about it when they brought out the Embassy BOFFs - heck, there were issues where a B'rel wouldn't blip at all. Folks could sit at 0km and unload torps into you without you seeing them. Was happy with the March changes. When I noticed that it started stacking again sometime after LoR, I started complaining again.
With no BOFFs, Willard has 159 Stealth and a cloak of 5184.4 - he's getting +150 Stealth for being a Reman and +8.8 from the KHG Mk XII Deflector. He's at 125 Aux.
Add a BOFF with Sub, he's at 309 Stealth and a cloak of 5259.4...
Add another BOFF, he's at 459 Stealth and a cloak of 5334.4...
Add another BOFF, he's at 609 Stealth and a cloak of 5409.4...
That's all he can add. I still haven't bothered filling out his BOFFs yet...too tedious. Only two of them are Sub/Sup Op. He's got a Sub, a 2x Op (normal) for the other three.
If he had all five, he'd be at 909 Stealth with a cloak of 5559.4...
There are folks with points in Stealth, etc, etc, etc - that are pushing that higher. Even for Willard it's broken, no doubt about that.
Course, if he 5 Pips his Singularity...he's looking at -400 Stealth.
Course too, Willard the Rat is more of Willard the Gnat. I think I've healed more with him than I have with my other 8 guys combined. There's a guy out there, again, not going to mention names - he's mean lil' bugger in his Torp'varo - blip, dead target, and he's gone.
Bah, now I'm just rambling...I'm surprised I can still post after asking if I could report Geko for trolling...heh.
I wasn't specifically talking about you.
not mini has made this thread because, some players, are using this very specific mechanic to create instant kills on other players when they attempt to decloak or are already cloaked but have been spotted.
No ACC vs. DEF.
+50 DEF from Cloaking? Irrelevant.
Result?
Instant kill.
It's just typical forum hypocrisy, players rail against a mechanic that can kill in a few seconds and want to see it nerfed, but some of those same players seem to gleefully support a similar mechanic to use against a build type they are biased against.
my goal is not to be hypocritical here man, im not someone using TS at all. to exploit or dump uselessly at targets with online shields. im done with my attempts to use torpedoes on any tactical ships.
ive never seen what you mention happen, but brels are oh so kill able by anything. i hesitate to sound an alarm if something pops one out of the blue.
but, now i do see there is a potential problem, especially with subterfuge stealth not stacking here soon. a detector boat with max buffed sensors and torp damage with TS3 going after battlecloakers, that sounds pretty close to doubletap exploit territory. torps can be quite op, if shields didn't exist at all. what a total mess cryptic has on its hands, regarding torps.
Yep, I wasn't meaning you.
Correct. Actually we saw this in the most recent No BS tournament.
Several variations of Snooper builds, including Sci/Tvaros who remained cloaked themselves, who would use Torp Spread to do exactly what you describe.
That's exactly how I feel also.
Is that confirmed about a Subterfuge fix?
EDIT: nvm I found it in the tribble notes
What I find amazing though are people who live in glass houses throwing stones.
Just in case this is aimed at me, seeing as you're using my wording, I wouldn't want anyone reading to be misled or confused.
> Try finding any posts where I've disagreed with the double tap changes directly.
> Try finding where I've called any specific mechanic an exploit.
If mechanics that allow for "instant kills" and exceptionally high stealth values are "unfair" or "poor game-play" (paraphrasing a.hawk)...
then
Mechanics that allow for exceptionally high perception, and Torpedo auto-hits on targets that don't have shields are equally "unfair" and "poor game-play".
If anyone here wants to take a stab at a logical argument that states otherwise, good luck with that, you're going to need it.
If not, I've always preferred the saying that folks who live in glass houses shouldn't shag sheep.
If I do, er, I don't shag sheep.
Having said that, I really do not concern myself with semantic sophistries in some forum, I got other things to do.
Stuff will be fixed or it won't. But I didn't want to bust your party guys, so carry on.
Typical. A mechanic is found against your setups and you Q.Q. about it.
Where are the calls for adapting now? When MT was lolling about the poor noobs who don't take EPTS3 on their healers.
None of these builds would have happened if you guys didn't milk your lame vape premades to the maximum.
Who wants to play against guys who run Theta, EWP, and nuke off every alpha, all the while being setup to get killed by one guy?
I don't mind playing against cheese setups, but I can sympathise with those who don't.
Cloak needs to give a perception penalty to the user, and/or stealth detection skills should give a stealth penalty to the user.
Even ships with enhanced battle cloak should have to monitor their systems so they aren't emitting signals that would give away their position, like running sensors on full blast and emitting all those tachyon particles, it makes no sense that they can do this while cloaked now, and if they do it should make them easy to detect.
The best snoopers should be uncloaked sci ships, not cloaked warbirds.
Fix the stupid stealth stacking, and it will weaken both vape builds and detector builds. Especially if the non-cloakers are heavily employing anti-cloak, and detection in their setups.
Making the detection builds **** without fixing the boffs, would be the most moronic thing Cryptic has ever done.
The detection builds without cloak are questionable as well. It's not hard to let a teammate know to stay out of range while the SS wears out.
In fact, that's what the vapers do now, stay 15-20km out of range, until ready.
They've got the mechanic for the Singularity Cores...if you're at 5 pips, you're sporting -400 Stealth...but that's the only thing I'm aware of in the game that reduces Stealth like that.
I'm fine with that, just give me better passive detection of Roms, and remove the Rom god stealth from boffs.
Without a proper spec, EPTA, sensor scan, you aren't seeing most Roms until it is too late.
There are ways around that.
/isgood
I'm in a Scimitar. Feel free to bring your torp spreads.
Unlike some parties, I haven't started any massive QQ threads on a mechanic I was unable to deal with.
I haven't called anyone an exploiter, or called any mechanic exploiting, on either of these issues.
As I stated earlier, feel free to peruse the forums and find where I've posted any particular thing was an exploit.
What calls for adapting? I didn't start this thread.
I'm responding to the issue that Torp Spread's auto hit should be brought in line with other normal mechanics, since it seems that's the road we might be taking soon - outlier mechanics brought in line.
Sorry if you dislike the decloak alpha mechanic. It is what it is and not even the new BO changes will remove it from the game.
The decloak vape builds came about as one part efficiency and one part necessity, playing a visible escort at this point in the game means you get to have most of your APAs nuked off, be constantly controlled with viral, etc.
Since it's missed your attention, if Hawk goes through and this BO change is part of a larger re-balancing to bring extremes more towards the center of play - I'm all for it, I've said this repeatedly now in multiple threads.
If it's just caving in to tears while not addressing any other broken mechanics over the long term - then it doesn't make sense and isn't really part of a positive process going forward.