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Let us bail on bad groups as soon as the optional fails
cabezadetortuga
Member Posts: 251 Arc User
So, I'm sitting here with a leaver penalty after a really bad Khitomer Vortex run. No one but me was trying to cover probes, and I did not make it to the gate in time to stop the first probe from the other side. This was after telling the two nitwits on the other side to get their probes in team chat. They either ignored me or could not understand English. As soon as the first probe went through the gate, I quickly disabled the wifi on my computer and went outside to play with the dog. When i came back, I couldn't queue up to try again due to a leaver penalty.
We should be able to bail on bad groups as soon as the optional fails.
There was no way that I was going to sit there and deal with the headache of guarding two sides. I don't care if it can be done by some people with ease. That is irrelevant to me.
So I was faced with the following rational choices:
1. Let the probes through so that the mission fails, thereby putting me on timer for Khitomer Vortex.
2. Bail on the failgroup and get a leaver penalty for ALL stfs.
I had hoped that by cutting the wifi on my computer, I would fool the game into treating it as a simple disconnect but, alas, that did not work. Now that I know that I cannot bail without the leaver penalty, then that leaves #1 as the best choice.
In the future, I will be using option #1 in such a situation. I can use tractor beam repulsors to speed things along, I suppose.
But SERIOUSLY, we should be able to bail on groups as soon as the optional fails.
Thank you for reading.
We should be able to bail on bad groups as soon as the optional fails.
There was no way that I was going to sit there and deal with the headache of guarding two sides. I don't care if it can be done by some people with ease. That is irrelevant to me.
So I was faced with the following rational choices:
1. Let the probes through so that the mission fails, thereby putting me on timer for Khitomer Vortex.
2. Bail on the failgroup and get a leaver penalty for ALL stfs.
I had hoped that by cutting the wifi on my computer, I would fool the game into treating it as a simple disconnect but, alas, that did not work. Now that I know that I cannot bail without the leaver penalty, then that leaves #1 as the best choice.
In the future, I will be using option #1 in such a situation. I can use tractor beam repulsors to speed things along, I suppose.
But SERIOUSLY, we should be able to bail on groups as soon as the optional fails.
Thank you for reading.
Post edited by cabezadetortuga on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Edit: beaten to it. :P
You guys are missing the point. Missing the optional is not why I left. Go back to my original post. Read the numbered section that describes my two rational choices. This group was destined to failure. Had ONE of the other players started picking up probes on the other side, then I would have gladly stayed, but they didn't. So I had to either stay and watch the group fail, or leave and get a leaver penalty. Those were the only two possibilities.
Now, from a game design, marketing, and management perspective, is it a good idea to place players in such a lose/lose situation where no matter what they choose, they lose?
Stay=be penalized for mission failure
Leave=be penalized for leaving
The fact that this can happen in STO is clearly a design failure.
This is why the system should leave an out for players stuck in such a situation. As soon as the optional fails, players should be allowed to leave. That way, players aren't forced to sit through a group that is irreversibly bound for failure just to avoid a leaver penalty.
Why should I sit through a mission that I KNOW with absolute certainty is going to fail?
I know I have practically solod some ESTFs with a bad group. It is doable and over time they do learn. Try sending some helpful PMs or zone chatts. I would rather have some noobs who are honestly trying than a bunch of afkers... now those people really get under my skin.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Agreed.
the lousy players stuck around trying to complete the mission. The good player left due to things not going smoothly...
The Leaver Penalty is the out for players stuck in such a situation. If they do what you want, then more people would simply exit when the STF is not going the way they want and find a new STF and keep on leaving if they never find a good STF. With the Leaver Penalty, it gives a harsh enough penalty to consider leaving it and have some time to cool down from the stress of experiencing those STFs. Another problem is that people could use this to grief a bunch of STFs. Stay in long enough to ruin a person's day and move on to the next victim.
Are you explaining to us or justifying to yourself?
if my group gets it...then Great, if not..then oh well....on normal stfs its nothing...on elites....well, if its not the reputation event then its still nothing
the only one i would leave is ISE, IF AND ONLY IF, the group isnt doing that great (ie. tons of nanite probes and spheres)...but sometimes i like that as i can kill as much as i want heheh
Because that is what I am gathering from the responses.
I am only trying to think this through rationally. If completing the mission is a lost cause and the penalty for leaving is more severe than the penalty for failing, then the only logical thing to do is to go AFK and hope that it is over quickly so that you can go try another mission. Apparently, speeding the failure up is off the table since it was objected to. Just as there is no point in trying to keep a sinking ship afloat, there is no point in continuing to fight in an incompletable STF.
So the most efficient, rational, and logical thing to do is to go AFK.
That right there should tell everyone that the system is faulty.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You have 3 acceptable options IMO. Tell your teammates that this team is not working and accept the leaver penalty, carry on and try to complete it, or suggest to your teammates that this team is working, you don't want the leaver penalty, and the team should sabotage the STF to fail it. If the team wants to sabotage it for some reason, then it is perfectly fine, but one or two players should not make the choice to sabotage it for the group. Going afk for whatever reason except Real Life Aggro or Disconnecting is not acceptable. People that sabotage STFs are only a step lower than afkers.
You're missing the point. You agreed to join a pick-up-group, in which everyone is assumed to have entered with the intent to put forth a good faith effort to complete the mission as a team. When you bail on a group, that is acting in good faith, you willingly fail to honor that agreement and you practically guarantee that the group will fail the mission. The failure is yours. You deserve the penalty.
If yes, then it is inevitable.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Not a single person told you to afk...
In fact almost everyone is saying to stick with it and try to get the mission to the end.
Nobody seems to have said that. Everyone's saying either 'you chose to pug, deal with the consequences' or 'stick with the group and fight it out'.
If you really despise 'fail groups', don't pug the queues. Join an active fleet and organize private matches. Make friends and organize private matches with them.
I think that a number of ppl here hinted that you sound pissed rather then rational .
No , that right there should tell everyone that you're a ***k , and you'll probably end up on more and more players 'ignore lists' as time goes on .
If you're looking for suggestions , here are two :
- Create an additional toon .
Once this toon is Level 50 , you can also play STF's with it , even if you'r main toon is on a cooldown or leavers penalty .
- Don't use the ingame PUG group maker .
Join these two chat channels that are dedicated to STF's , and you'll have an over 95% of getting the optionals in space , and about 70-80% chance of getting them on ground as well .
Public STF channel :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=753431
EliteSTF channel :
This is a private channel (much less active then it was before) , but still a good place to look for other players .
Contact @UFP-74656 or @Tilarta via ingame mail for an invite .
And try to remember : ditching your fellow players is never the answer .
(even when you're pissed
Let's summarize.
1. Stick with it and finish
2. Leave and take penalty. Switch to an alt or do something else
3. Use an ESTF channel
4. Do a pre made
5. Ask team to kindly sabotage a bad run
Instead he wants an option to TRIBBLE his team mates and introduce a new mechanism that is exploitable for briefing. Picard facepalm moment.
- Judge Aaron Satie
No, we don't need an "out" for when the Optional fails. What we need, is the ability to kick players who deliberately fail the optional, either via ignorance, lack of skill or both. You might notice by right-clicking a player name, the "Kick" option is there. But it's not functional in auto-teamed groups (PVE Queues).
Agreed, but to a point: whether or not it is possible to complete the STF (Mainly the boss of KSE).
So because you didn't get your 15 omega marks from the optional you're gonna deprive yourself and four other people from 60+ marks?
Que loco.
If I ever see you or anyone else deliberately pushing probes through in KASE I'll report you for griefing. That's a seriously not-cool move.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Deliberately?
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Combined number of posts from people who think the OP is right: 41
Combined number of posts from people who think the OP is wrong.....er....i lost count around 15k.
The cynical side of me supports the idea, since I'd rather certain players just buggered off than cry in the comments that the optional is gone, we're all n00b losers and wasting their oh so precious grinding time.
I would however want this additional change. If a player decides to bail their slice of the rewards should the mission complete successfully is re-distributed among the remaining players. It's only fair since we're the ones doing all the work.
On the other hand, STFs like ISE can bog down if someone blows a nanite gen too early. Lately I've noticed this isn't the problem that it used to be, or I've been extraordinarily lucky with PUGs. But even as recently as a few weeks ago someone did exactly that and ISE turned into a quagmire. Someone left, and I became the 2nd person to leave. In this specific situation I tried communicating before making the decision and got no word back. Some people were shooting at the regular spheres rather than the nanite spheres after I had told them to target the latter. I don't know whether it's because of griefing or simple ignorance (I try not to attribute anything to malice when it can be readily attributed to incompetence, ignorance or inexperience), but if I post in the team chat 'do x y z' or 'DON'T DO THAT' or whatever, and nobody even acknowledges the communication, I feel like I've made a good faith effort to try and salvage a bad situation.
And yeah I know that someone quitting early sucks and brings the rest of the team down. However my absolute worst PUG experience was one ISE when someone left because of the failed optional and the rest of the team and I had to spend the next hour struggling to win (it was crazy long, that game). And I pretty much vowed after that to never find myself in such a situation again. I'd rather eat the penalty. And this was before s7's Brave New World rollout of the craptastic reputation grind. Now, when the rewards for completion are some junk o-marks? Yeah, to hell with that. So I won't leave early and I won't leave if the optional fails, but I will leave if after making every effort to salvage a bad situation I'm left staring at the prospect of spending half an hour plus of my time on something that shouldn't take more than a third of that time. Fortunately, I haven't had many reasons to quit early except for the singular instance I experienced above.
I actually look forward to that kind of challenge.
I pug if I don't have fleetmates on to roll with and I like getting shaken out of autopilot once in a while.
Last week I wound up joining an ISE run that had already failed the optional and two other people had already left, leaving one experienced player in a torp-heavy Scamitar with two... less-experienced players in a defiant and an FAW cruiser of some sort.
I talked Scamitar out of bailing and we took the time to explain the 10% strategy to the other while we let the nanny probes play ring-around-the-transformer for a few minutes. Then we made a coordinated attack on the nanite spheres (watching all three of them blow up almost at once was a beautiful sight to behold. We burned down the transformer and the other spheres and switched sides.
Things were going well until cruiser hit FAW just as Scamitar launched a string of HY3 hyplasma torps at his generator, blowing that one early. Nobody had grav well or TBR so of course the nanny spheres showed up. Scamitar was in despair but then something unexpected and amazing happened.
Defiant, which to this point had been silent the entire match, said "Come on guys we cans still do this! Kill em all at once just like last time!" He was right. And it worked. And I swear I have never seen a gateway crumble that fast before. And with Cruiser and me spreading heals around and a timely Nimbus call from Scamitar we even tore down the tac cube without losing anybody.
Yeah, it took forty minutes longer than it should have and yeah, we each missed out on 15 omega marks. But guess what? WE HAD FUN. For once, ISE was a CHALLENGE that needed a team to pull together to beat it. And we did and it was awesome. I made two new friends that day (Cruiser disappeared) and we went on from there and took CSE and KASE by storm.
That's why I never "Post my worst STF." That's why I never bail when things get tough. That's why I pug. That's why I play this game.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Well, no, it doesn't really. Just lets me flex my scimitar's raw firepower and agility, which is equally as enjoyable.
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