Sorry for the Necro-post. The information is still relevant.
I enjoyed your post and will forward newcomers to PvP to this thread for sure!
I am a veteran PvP-er myself and find fighting real players always more entertaining, educational and all around enjoyable experience then combating mindless TRIBBLE easy PvE spam. As much as I enjoyed reading up on stuff I already knew (lol), I still want to put in my 2 cents from all my years of experience.
I agree that the Engineer is one of the front running classes in dire need of a re-work. Aside from PvP(arguably), there really is no need for a tank in STO, seeing that Cryptic is enabling all ships to pretty much tank anyway, especially with the new consoles. We have an endless problem where everyone wants to fly a cruiser and everyone is afraid to take damage. We are left with team's full of zombie bricks making the few Tacs or Tac heavy ships on the team do most if not all the work(so much for teamwork and team comp..).
I am 90% of the time on my Tac toon in a stacked Mobius for PvP runs, however I still get on my Eng when the team needs a good healer (My eng is in a Recluse). I prefer a Eng as a pre-made/PUG healer for several reasons:
-The fact that you are ignored allows me to run my Pure Healing build like a dream.
-The few one-off self only career skills mean I can combat attacks without sacrificing heals to my teammates (RSF, Miracle Worker, Eng Fleet etc). A dead healer is no good to anyone.
A good healer even just one, can cause all kinds of problems for the other team, especially if they are less organized then your team. Not saying you cannot tank in other careers, but a eng has the ability to withstand attacks better(Atleast enough for them to move on to other targets), allowing them to focus on keeping the other teammates alive more effectively.
Yea I lose a SNB and all that jazz, but in my fleet we already have enough Sci's. In the form of other pseudo-Healers in CC builds, Escorts etc. In PUGS, you get alot of inexperienced players, meaning alot of the time, they focus on the healer to "get him out of the way", which often ends up leading to 2 or 3 players on your team taking dmg as the other team is spreading out to take on more targets to throw the healer off. Having those one-off selfish skills, means less worrying about me and more focusing on my team. Which if I may, is the TRUE role of ANY Healer on a team.
I have been in several Pre-made vs Pre-made matches where they had 2 very good healers. Between them we couldn't get much if anything done, despite chained SNB's. We were forced to get 1 or both the healers out of the way before we could go after their Tac's picking us off.
SNB- A good skill in its own right, but not the end-all-be-all. The trick is to have a SCI team ready either by you or your or team-mates and just wait till its been used before mounting an assault. Most players are easy to manipulate into using them early. Which can be done quite easily with Decoys, Sike-outs what have you.
I only recently found my footing as an engineer captain. The reason I didn't find it earlier was I had a lot of people telling me that they're no good. In PUG or premade I find an engineer tank/healer useful because:
Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker may be selfish abilities, but between them and EPtS I find I can keep myself alive and still be dishing out heals to the rest of my team. I only really need to use the team heals on myself if a large portion of the enemy are attacking me. If that happens, chances are my team doesn't need them at that moment.
Subnuc will clear off RSF, but enough healing abilities on my ship means that even if I'm subnuc'd I'll have one or two abilities not on CD that I can use if needed to keep myself alive. If I'm being subnuc'd then a sci or tac isn't being subnuc'd. I also stock Sci Team to clear it off me or my team.
In conjunction with the above reason, and as dnaangel9 stated, you're often ignored, allowing you to get to work.
If you have the spare tac ability, you also tend to stock BFAW which is great for clearing any annoying pets the opposition may have brought.
By no means am I a master PvP player. I'd hazard a guess and say that I'm in the lower 50%, but I've found a lot of success with engineers, success I didn't think was possible.
There is one side of this that says the engineer needs to be improved to be more useful in pvp.
But if more pvp modes were available that could make certain skills more interesting then I think that would help the engineer. I really don't like Arena that much just cause it seems silly to just duke it out. Cap and Hold is ruined by the alpha strike from a cloak that can kill me before I can hit a button. They get within 2k of me and I am dead. I circle or do anything while capping they can just wait, I have no chance of seeing them.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I only recently found my footing as an engineer captain. The reason I didn't find it earlier was I had a lot of people telling me that they're no good. In PUG or premade I find an engineer tank/healer useful because:
Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker may be selfish abilities, but between them and EPtS I find I can keep myself alive and still be dishing out heals to the rest of my team. I only really need to use the team heals on myself if a large portion of the enemy are attacking me. If that happens, chances are my team doesn't need them at that moment.
Subnuc will clear off RSF, but enough healing abilities on my ship means that even if I'm subnuc'd I'll have one or two abilities not on CD that I can use if needed to keep myself alive. If I'm being subnuc'd then a sci or tac isn't being subnuc'd. I also stock Sci Team to clear it off me or my team.
In conjunction with the above reason, and as dnaangel9 stated, you're often ignored, allowing you to get to work.
If you have the spare tac ability, you also tend to stock BFAW which is great for clearing any annoying pets the opposition may have brought.
By no means am I a master PvP player. I'd hazard a guess and say that I'm in the lower 50%, but I've found a lot of success with engineers, success I didn't think was possible.
Glad to see others understand where I am coming from!
There is one side of this that says the engineer needs to be improved to be more useful in pvp.
But if more pvp modes were available that could make certain skills more interesting then I think that would help the engineer. I really don't like Arena that much just cause it seems silly to just duke it out. Cap and Hold is ruined by the alpha strike from a cloak that can kill me before I can hit a button. They get within 2k of me and I am dead. I circle or do anything while capping they can just wait, I have no chance of seeing them.
A proper ship setup will allow you to see cloaked ships ALOT better!
You will be surprised to see how many run 0 points in in Stealth skill.
A proper ship setup will allow you to see cloaked ships ALOT better!
You will be surprised to see how many run 0 points in the Stealth skill.
In fairness, the Stealth skill really doesn't actually add much actual stealth. It helps, but not by much. Or rather, it doesn't add enough stealth relative to the cost in skill points you have to give out for it. Nor are there enough things that are based off the stealth skill either to make folks more consider using it, outside of cloaks. Sure there is MES, but that takes a sci slot, and even if you maxed it out, can still be weaker than a basic cloak.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
In fairness, the Stealth skill really doesn't actually add much actual stealth. It helps, but not by much. Or rather, it doesn't add enough stealth relative to the cost in skill points you have to give out for it. Nor are there enough things that are based off the stealth skill either to make folks more consider using it, outside of cloaks. Sure there is MES, but that takes a sci slot, and even if you maxed it out, can still be weaker than a basic cloak.
Yes, the Stealth skill is one of the worst value skills in the entire game.
Just take a moment to compare what stealth grants (a tiny amount of stealth) vs. what the opposing skill (Starship Sensors) does:
> Increases Stealth Detection Rating
> Increases the Stealth Sight portion of Sensor Scan.
> Increases the Stealth debuff of Sensor Scan on enemy targets.
> Grants resistance vs. Scrambles/Jam Sensors/Placates (Roughly -50% duration for 9 ranks).
The cost to benefit ratio for these two technically opposing skills are way, way off.
We have an endless problem where everyone wants to fly a cruiser and everyone is afraid to take damage. We are left with team's full of zombie bricks making the few Tacs or Tac heavy ships on the team do most if not all the work(so much for teamwork and team comp..).
Indeed.
This is also why I think players need to be careful what they wish for with Engineers.
Some want them to retain their tanky-ness and:
> Do more damage
> Be even better at healing
Some people actually want all 3.
While Engineers need some tweaks, the above things should never happen in unison.
It would create a nightmare class that becomes the new defacto "best" career.
-The fact that you are ignored allows me to run my Pure Healing build like a dream.
-The few one-off self only career skills mean I can combat attacks without sacrificing heals to my teammates (RSF, Miracle Worker, Eng Fleet etc). A dead healer is no good to anyone.
A good healer even just one, can cause all kinds of problems for the other team, especially if they are less organized then your team. Not saying you cannot tank in other careers, but a eng has the ability to withstand attacks better(Atleast enough for them to move on to other targets), allowing them to focus on keeping the other teammates alive more effectively.
Yea I lose a SNB and all that jazz, but in my fleet we already have enough Sci's. In the form of other pseudo-Healers in CC builds, Escorts etc. In PUGS, you get alot of inexperienced players, meaning alot of the time, they focus on the healer to "get him out of the way", which often ends up leading to 2 or 3 players on your team taking dmg as the other team is spreading out to take on more targets to throw the healer off. Having those one-off selfish skills, means less worrying about me and more focusing on my team. Which if I may, is the TRUE role of ANY Healer on a team.
I have been in several Pre-made vs Pre-made matches where they had 2 very good healers. Between them we couldn't get much if anything done, despite chained SNB's. We were forced to get 1 or both the healers out of the way before we could go after their Tac's picking us off.
SNB- A good skill in its own right, but not the end-all-be-all. The trick is to have a SCI team ready either by you or your or team-mates and just wait till its been used before mounting an assault. Most players are easy to manipulate into using them early. Which can be done quite easily with Decoys, Sike-outs what have you.
Honestly the situation is complicated.
Sci still has the overall best suite for stacking.
You still need at least 1, preferably 2 good Tacs (and most tournaments ban 4 same-career captains anyway).
I think all of the damage-creep that's been added has helped Engineers a bit - but I'm not fully convinced that you still want to dump a Sci or Tac for a premade.
This is also why I think players need to be careful what they wish for with Engineers.
Some want them to retain their tanky-ness and:
> Do more damage
> Be even better at healing
Some people actually want all 3.
While Engineers need some tweaks, the above things should never happen in unison.
It would create a nightmare class that becomes the new defacto "best" career.
Honestly the situation is complicated.
Sci still has the overall best suite for stacking.
You still need at least 1, preferably 2 good Tacs (and most tournaments ban 4 same-career captains anyway).
I think all of the damage-creep that's been added has helped Engineers a bit - but I'm not fully convinced that you still want to dump a Sci or Tac for a premade.
Thanks for your comments.
Agreed. This is why I loved my D'Kora so much in PvP. As a TAC officer, I can work a Dkora like no ones business(and with DHCs/Turrets mind you!), almost never die, get top damage and most of the kills quite often in pre-mades. Its a perfect well-rounded ship to fill all the roles (Personal opinion obviously). It was always quite gratifying to out dmg the Jem' Attack ships on the team (Even in my fleets pre-mades).
Teams like it, because I am bringing alot of firepower and I am not as much of a liability to them as I am self-sufficent being in a stacked Pseudo-cruiser
Wow...awesome! Many thanks Ussultimatum because you saved me from a very big headache!
Now when a rookie wanna know something about abilities for PvPing I tell him to read your thread!:cool:
By the way...are you an evul Klingun or a good Fed comrade?:D
Comments
Clear and concise piece of work.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
Lol, ok.
Engineer is going to be fine most of the time.
When push comes to shove though, the Engineers abilities do not contribute as well to a team's performance as a Sci will.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
White lies.
It depends on one's goals.
I've never allowed one of my builds to stop at "fine".
I've never allowed one of my builds to approach "fine"...ahem.
Your Builds
^
Fine
v
My Builds
I'm not sure I put enough disclaimers for this particular build: The Chron Avenger
I enjoyed your post and will forward newcomers to PvP to this thread for sure!
I am a veteran PvP-er myself and find fighting real players always more entertaining, educational and all around enjoyable experience then combating mindless TRIBBLE easy PvE spam. As much as I enjoyed reading up on stuff I already knew (lol), I still want to put in my 2 cents from all my years of experience.
I agree that the Engineer is one of the front running classes in dire need of a re-work. Aside from PvP(arguably), there really is no need for a tank in STO, seeing that Cryptic is enabling all ships to pretty much tank anyway, especially with the new consoles. We have an endless problem where everyone wants to fly a cruiser and everyone is afraid to take damage. We are left with team's full of zombie bricks making the few Tacs or Tac heavy ships on the team do most if not all the work(so much for teamwork and team comp..).
I am 90% of the time on my Tac toon in a stacked Mobius for PvP runs, however I still get on my Eng when the team needs a good healer (My eng is in a Recluse). I prefer a Eng as a pre-made/PUG healer for several reasons:
-The fact that you are ignored allows me to run my Pure Healing build like a dream.
-The few one-off self only career skills mean I can combat attacks without sacrificing heals to my teammates (RSF, Miracle Worker, Eng Fleet etc). A dead healer is no good to anyone.
A good healer even just one, can cause all kinds of problems for the other team, especially if they are less organized then your team. Not saying you cannot tank in other careers, but a eng has the ability to withstand attacks better(Atleast enough for them to move on to other targets), allowing them to focus on keeping the other teammates alive more effectively.
Yea I lose a SNB and all that jazz, but in my fleet we already have enough Sci's. In the form of other pseudo-Healers in CC builds, Escorts etc. In PUGS, you get alot of inexperienced players, meaning alot of the time, they focus on the healer to "get him out of the way", which often ends up leading to 2 or 3 players on your team taking dmg as the other team is spreading out to take on more targets to throw the healer off. Having those one-off selfish skills, means less worrying about me and more focusing on my team. Which if I may, is the TRUE role of ANY Healer on a team.
I have been in several Pre-made vs Pre-made matches where they had 2 very good healers. Between them we couldn't get much if anything done, despite chained SNB's. We were forced to get 1 or both the healers out of the way before we could go after their Tac's picking us off.
SNB- A good skill in its own right, but not the end-all-be-all. The trick is to have a SCI team ready either by you or your or team-mates and just wait till its been used before mounting an assault. Most players are easy to manipulate into using them early. Which can be done quite easily with Decoys, Sike-outs what have you.
Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker may be selfish abilities, but between them and EPtS I find I can keep myself alive and still be dishing out heals to the rest of my team. I only really need to use the team heals on myself if a large portion of the enemy are attacking me. If that happens, chances are my team doesn't need them at that moment.
Subnuc will clear off RSF, but enough healing abilities on my ship means that even if I'm subnuc'd I'll have one or two abilities not on CD that I can use if needed to keep myself alive. If I'm being subnuc'd then a sci or tac isn't being subnuc'd. I also stock Sci Team to clear it off me or my team.
In conjunction with the above reason, and as dnaangel9 stated, you're often ignored, allowing you to get to work.
If you have the spare tac ability, you also tend to stock BFAW which is great for clearing any annoying pets the opposition may have brought.
By no means am I a master PvP player. I'd hazard a guess and say that I'm in the lower 50%, but I've found a lot of success with engineers, success I didn't think was possible.
But if more pvp modes were available that could make certain skills more interesting then I think that would help the engineer. I really don't like Arena that much just cause it seems silly to just duke it out. Cap and Hold is ruined by the alpha strike from a cloak that can kill me before I can hit a button. They get within 2k of me and I am dead. I circle or do anything while capping they can just wait, I have no chance of seeing them.
Glad to see others understand where I am coming from!
A proper ship setup will allow you to see cloaked ships ALOT better!
You will be surprised to see how many run 0 points in in Stealth skill.
In fairness, the Stealth skill really doesn't actually add much actual stealth. It helps, but not by much. Or rather, it doesn't add enough stealth relative to the cost in skill points you have to give out for it. Nor are there enough things that are based off the stealth skill either to make folks more consider using it, outside of cloaks. Sure there is MES, but that takes a sci slot, and even if you maxed it out, can still be weaker than a basic cloak.
Yes, the Stealth skill is one of the worst value skills in the entire game.
Just take a moment to compare what stealth grants (a tiny amount of stealth) vs. what the opposing skill (Starship Sensors) does:
> Increases Stealth Detection Rating
> Increases the Stealth Sight portion of Sensor Scan.
> Increases the Stealth debuff of Sensor Scan on enemy targets.
> Grants resistance vs. Scrambles/Jam Sensors/Placates (Roughly -50% duration for 9 ranks).
The cost to benefit ratio for these two technically opposing skills are way, way off.
Especially when you compare it to things like Romulan boffs that give double what 9 points in the stealth skill gives.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Agreed, if you're interested please post comments or ideas in this new thread on the stealth skill HERE.
Lol I didn't even see this message before I saw your other post.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Thank you!
Indeed.
This is also why I think players need to be careful what they wish for with Engineers.
Some want them to retain their tanky-ness and:
> Do more damage
> Be even better at healing
Some people actually want all 3.
While Engineers need some tweaks, the above things should never happen in unison.
It would create a nightmare class that becomes the new defacto "best" career.
Honestly the situation is complicated.
Sci still has the overall best suite for stacking.
You still need at least 1, preferably 2 good Tacs (and most tournaments ban 4 same-career captains anyway).
I think all of the damage-creep that's been added has helped Engineers a bit - but I'm not fully convinced that you still want to dump a Sci or Tac for a premade.
Thanks for your comments.
Agreed. This is why I loved my D'Kora so much in PvP. As a TAC officer, I can work a Dkora like no ones business(and with DHCs/Turrets mind you!), almost never die, get top damage and most of the kills quite often in pre-mades. Its a perfect well-rounded ship to fill all the roles (Personal opinion obviously). It was always quite gratifying to out dmg the Jem' Attack ships on the team (Even in my fleets pre-mades).
Teams like it, because I am bringing alot of firepower and I am not as much of a liability to them as I am self-sufficent being in a stacked Pseudo-cruiser
Thank you for the reply.
Currently, I am an evul (Fed) Romulan. :P