A concern I have is that although we have a lot of issues, with the amount of issues people are bringing up, the more severe issues will get hidden, so rather than finding more issues, please can you debate the top 5 issues that seriously affect PvP right now here using the number i have allocated to each in Posts 1 & 2
Thanks again.
Also i have removed opinions and potential fixes from people's remarks, as a fix or opinion from one person might not be the same for another. However, i do stress i have (or tried to, to the best of my ability) capture the concerns you have brought up.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
A concern I have is that although we have a lot of issues, with the amount of issues people are bringing up, the more severe issues will get hidden, so rather than finding more issues, please can you debate the top 5 issues that seriously affect PvP right now here using the number i have allocated to each in Posts 1 & 2
Thanks again.
Also i have removed opinions and potential fixes from people's remarks, as a fix or opinion from one person might not be the same for another. However, i do stress i have (or tried to, to the best of my ability) capture the concerns you have brought up.
Missed this one from page 2.
UI: Boff Trays
Issue: Activating abilities too quickly does sometimes cause the tray to get "stuck". An ability will be highlighted but won't activate, and any subsequent abilities that you try to activate behave erratically (spamming tacteam 10 times a second, some abilities don't activate for at least 5 seconds). This persists through respawns.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
issue: grants to much res, often up to caped res if the incoming energy type and shield match. elite shields are imbalanced at best, but the res mods are what is really overboard.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Is this not a game bug rather than directly related to space PvP? If it isn't, I will add to list.
I haven't experienced it outside of PvP, which leads me to believe that it is somehow PvP related. Of course, I'm not a dev though, so I don't know for sure.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I haven't experienced it outside of PvP, which leads me to believe that it is somehow PvP related. Of course, I'm not a dev though, so I don't know for sure.
Ability: Tactical Team Debuff Cleanse Issue: Tac Team debuff cleanse lasts for a full 10s, this only leaves a 5s window in which any single tactical debuff can have an effect (Attack Patterns Beta/Delta, Fire on my Mark). This severely marginalizes these force multipliers and sources of damage resistance debuffs to low usability. Status: To be advised by Cryptic
Ability: Shield Distribution Issue: Native shield distribution is not strong enough to truly withstand most damage. It requires a keybind to maintain and 5 keybinds if you actually want to specifically manage each facing. This is an unwieldy mechanic and one that should be on by default, and is one that contributes to some of the artificial gap between New Player vs. Vet Player survivability. Status: To be advised by Cryptic
09. Ability: Temporal Inversion Field Issue: No consistent hard counter apart from bringing your own field in.Status: To be advised by Cryptic
i have to disagree u in that part. TIF can be easily countered by the use of photonic shockwave with after-shockwave doffs. it is a very reliable counter which always works if u know how to utilize the ability correctly.
i have to disagree u in that part. TIF can be easily countered by the use of photonic shockwave with after-shockwave doffs. it is a very reliable counter which always works if u know how to utilize the ability correctly.
5 km TIF radius effect vs 3km shockwave radius isnt a counter. Try to cover 2km during that effect being on.....
5 km TIF radius effect vs 3km shockwave radius isnt a counter. Try to cover 2km during that effect being on.....
Not to mention, Naz, that a team will be hard-pressed to have enough PSW's in the first place to potentially counter a full team of TIF's is quite difficult as well.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
yeah the movement debuff you and your team mates have to deal with can be an obstacle but for that u have the after-shockwaves which proc on all the other opponents, so even multiple tif's can be finished off at once. otherwise it would have been difficult to counter such cheese pvper like - fs- isnt it?
yeah the movement debuff you and your team mates have to deal with can be an obstacle but for that u have the after-shockwaves which proc on all the other opponents, so even multiple tif's can be finished off. otherwise it would have been difficult to counter such cheese pvper like - fs- isnt it?
I'll break one of my own rules, just this one time. I usually try not to engage in too much conversation in this thread.
Take your fleet's best 10 PvPers.
Split them into 2 5 man teams and balance the teams for player skill - make them as even as possible.
TEAM A: Give this team 3 to 5 copies of TIF, 3 to 5 copies of 30s+GPG, 2 to 3 carriers with Yellowstones, SS DOFFs, etc. The worst of the worst this game has to offer. Maybe they even take 4 to 5 Sci captains.
TEAM B: They get none of those items, they can only bring standard counters. This team is designed using standard (no BS 1 or 2) tournament rules.
Ask yourself how "easy" it would be to for TEAM B to counter TEAM A's tactics with "PSW" and it's 3km radius against multi-use, chained and coordinated TIF/GPG.
Some items, powers and pets, denote a clear and distinct power advantage that is completely and massively lopsided.
That is the definition of something that is overpowered, as opposed to something that is just "an edge".
Answer yourself, and if you're willing this thread, on what you think the results of this match would be.
That -FS- team you guys defeated, even Hank mentioned very specifically that it also required the creative use of some items your fleet doesn't generally use.
yeah the movement debuff you and your team mates have to deal with can be an obstacle but for that u have the after-shockwaves which proc on all the other opponents, so even multiple tif's can be finished off at once. otherwise it would have been difficult to counter such cheese pvper like - fs- isnt it?
Don't forget aux2id/APO make you immune to PSW which is more and more common as a counter to PSW /w TIF. At least that has been my experience in a few matches.
That leaves VM but there is no apparent icons to show who casted TIF.
I'll break one of my own rules, just this one time. I usually try not to engage in too much conversation in this thread.
Take your fleet's best 10 PvPers.
Split them into 2 5 man teams and balance the teams for player skill - make them as even as possible.
TEAM A: Give this team 3 to 5 copies of TIF, 3 to 5 copies of 30s+GPG, 2 to 3 carriers with Yellowstones, SS DOFFs, etc. The worst of the worst this game has to offer. Maybe they even take 5 Sci captains.
TEAM B: They get none of those teams. Standard (no BS 1 or 2) tournament rules premade.
Ask yourself how "easy" it would be to for TEAM B to counter TEAM A's tactics with "PSW" and it's 3km radius against multi-use, chained and coordinated TIF/GPG.
Some items, powers and pets, denote a clear and distinct power advantage that is completely and massively lopsided.
That is the definition of something that is overpowered, as opposed to something that is just "an edge".
Answer yourself, and if you're willing this thread, on what you think the results of this match would be.
That -FS- team you guys defeated, even Hank mentioned very specifically that it also required the creative use of some items your fleet doesn't generally use.
Are you serious dude ????? this is a very inappropriate comparison and a very unrealistic representation of how tif would be hard to counter.
first of all in a normal premade vs premade match no real pvp team in the world is going to enter with 5 sci and 5 ttifs. secondly our conversation is dealing with tif only, i have never talked about how annoying ss doffs or yellowstones are, that is clear. a normal pvp team is usually composed of 3 sci and 2 tacs so they have at most 3 tifs available not 5.
so if u wanna have a match of 2 teams being at the same level of skill and having at most 3 tifs on the one side and 3 photonic shockwaves on the other side, most of these tifs are very likely to be cleared.
this scenario you have created is comparable to a pvp team who encounters a troll team with 5 sci and and lots of cheese of whom both of them are on the same skill level and the outcome of such a match would be more than obvious.
by the way ultimatum we havent encountered -fs- just one time but many many other times and the most remarkable match was when i entered with an alpha zero premnade arena to face an -fs- made. we only had 2 psw available and -fs- were able to use 3 tifs, during the whole match i didnt notice anything of a tif slowing down my movement because those 2 wells did a nice job they cleared all of them even with 1 psw several tifs.
Are you serious dude ????? this is a very inappropriate comparison and a very unrealistic representation of how tif would be hard to counter.
first of all in a normal premade vs premade match no real pvp team in the world is going to enter with 5 sci and 5 ttifs. secondly our conversation is dealing with tif only, i have never talked about how annoying ss doffs or yellowstones are, that is clear. a normal pvp team is usually composed of 3 sci and 2 tacs so they have at most 3 tifs available not 5.
so if u wanna have a match of 2 teams being at the same level of skill and having at most 3 tifs on the one side and 3 photonic shockwaves on the other side, most of these tifs are very likely to be cleared.
this scenario you have created is comparable to a pvp team who encounters a troll team with 5 sci and and lots of cheese of whom both of them are on the same skill level and the outcome of such a match would be more than obvious.
by the way ultimatum we havent encountered -fs- just one time but many many other times and the most remarkable match was when i entered with an alpha zero premnade arena to face an -fs- made. we only had 2 psw available and -fs- were able to use 3 tifs, during the whole match i didnt notice anything of a tif slowing down my movement because those 2 wells did a nice job they cleared all of them even with 1 psw several tifs.
3 wells & 2 destroyers = 3 scis and 2 tac.
Anyway, can ALL parties keep this thread clear please.
Please keep discussions out of this thread as it soon becomes a challenge to pick up all the issues you guys are posting. Please start an alternate thread if you wish to discuss anything further.
oh all right ofc, i havent noticed your first message
generally the other points are quite crucial and should be fixed
But since you asked, I'll redesign the scenario for you.
Take your fleet's best 10 PvPers.
Split them into 2 5 man teams and balance the teams for player skill - make them as even as possible.
TEAM A: Give this team 3 to 5 copies of TIF. The team is otherwise designed using No BS tournament rules 1, 2 or 4.*
TEAM B: This team follows no BS tournament rules 1, 2 or 4.* They cannot bring TIF.
Have TEAM A spend some time planning on the ways they will use, and protect their TIF from being countered.
Everyone focuses on the counters to TIF.
It's rare you see anyone acknowledge the ways to counter those counters.
Xtreme already gave you one, Aux to ID.
*I left out No BS #3 rules set as it was a unique deviation from the otherwise typical No BS set up.
kk, yeah that seems to be a more reliable scenario. if the team has spent much time in order to be able to defend its ability to use them as effective as possible tif will be difficult to counter same also counts of all the other abilities, when they are well-prepared to counter an opponent?s counter strategy.
i need such a video too everytime i beam out against -FS-...oh wait 1 hour after that match some days after
IC beaming out when they realized they got no chance...only the brave Praxis stayd(outperforming his teammates anyways lol)
Hannibal learnd tho...they calld TIF cheese back then and beamd out...nowadays it's ok to use it...
There are several counters to it...Photonic Shockwave with doff,Tractor Beam repulsors,maybe just fly out of 5km with evasive..you guys should better complain about the ridiculous crits nowadays from romulans or that you didn't get your Chicken McNuggets from McDonalds^^
I also learnd something new in the past days....you can clear Graviton Pulse with ENG TEAM....wow...and i thought that cheese has no counter
issue: grants to much res, often up to caped res if the incoming energy type and shield match. elite shields are imbalanced at best, but the res mods are what is really overboard.
Problem is, itm akes the game a rock paper scissors game.
i need such a video too everytime i beam out against -FS-...oh wait 1 hour after that match some days after
IC beaming out when they realized they got no chance...only the brave Praxis stayd(outperforming his teammates anyways lol)
Hannibal learnd tho...they calld TIF cheese back then and beamd out...nowadays it's ok to use it...
There are several counters to it...Photonic Shockwave with doff,Tractor Beam repulsors,maybe just fly out of 5km with evasive..you guys should better complain about the ridiculous crits nowadays from romulans or that you didn't get your Chicken McNuggets from McDonalds^^
I also learnd something new in the past days....you can clear Graviton Pulse with ENG TEAM....wow...and i thought that cheese has no counter
wait a second, the screenshot of these matches u have made:
i think you definetly strain the truth. the match one hour after and a few days later we werent even a full inner circle team and then you call that a match against ic lol. we were 4 guys and u were a 5-man-team actually.
In the second match a few days later i queued up myself with my alpha defiant which i havent used for decades and met in arena 3 of my fleeties randomly, i even wasnt on ts dude. as they suggested to warp out, i warped out aswell cuz it would make no sense to fight you with inferior numbers^^. i normally dont warp out, it doesnt matter how bad the fight goes, in this time it was an exception.
the match we have frapsed was an organized premade vs premade match, those u have posted were random arena matches and they are absolutely meaningless.
for instance we also defeated pandas in random arena matches when we entered with a full team and they had 4 of their guys, woooooooww thats absolutely no achievement u can ask them, that is a considerable difference compared to an organized match.
but if u like we can set up other premade matches when i return from holiday, it would be my pleasure to face u again^^
PS: i have asked you several times for a premade match and you guys refused it every time with no clear reason, so there is no reason why you say "we warped out when we had no chance."
i think you definetly strain the truth. the match one hour after and a few days later we werent even a full inner circle team and then you call that a match against ic lol. we were 4 guys and u were a 5-man-team actually.
look at the scoreboard...it was 4 of us plus pug against 4 of you plus pug
but ye keep telling yourself that it was 4vs5^^
the match we have frapsed was an organized premade vs premade match, those u have posted were random arena matches and they are absolutely meaningless.
that's also complete nonsense...we met in the queue when you made that vid..there was nothing organized...
the fact that we were flying around with 3 escorts and 2 sci ships..with like no heals and 2 new players shows that...
you would guess people notice the difference between 1 escort and 4 sci ships and 3 escorts and 2 sci ships...
the match some days later showd what's really happening...you realized you have no chance....and decided to BEAM OUT after getting beaten 8:0..
only praxis stayed in...
you guys should beam out right at the start next time...so it looks as if you didn't lose^^
Comments
Hey, you didn't add the crew thing I brought up.
Missed this one from page 2.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
issue: grants to much res, often up to caped res if the incoming energy type and shield match. elite shields are imbalanced at best, but the res mods are what is really overboard.
Thank you, Naz.
Is this not a game bug rather than directly related to space PvP? If it isn't, I will add to list.
I haven't experienced it outside of PvP, which leads me to believe that it is somehow PvP related. Of course, I'm not a dev though, so I don't know for sure.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I'll add when I get home
Issue: Tac Team debuff cleanse lasts for a full 10s, this only leaves a 5s window in which any single tactical debuff can have an effect (Attack Patterns Beta/Delta, Fire on my Mark). This severely marginalizes these force multipliers and sources of damage resistance debuffs to low usability.
Status: To be advised by Cryptic
Ability: Shield Distribution
Issue: Native shield distribution is not strong enough to truly withstand most damage. It requires a keybind to maintain and 5 keybinds if you actually want to specifically manage each facing. This is an unwieldy mechanic and one that should be on by default, and is one that contributes to some of the artificial gap between New Player vs. Vet Player survivability.
Status: To be advised by Cryptic
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12446541#post12446541
Grats on the thread post. I'll update when I'm on PC tomorrow. Good job.
PS, push this thread there as well
i have to disagree u in that part. TIF can be easily countered by the use of photonic shockwave with after-shockwave doffs. it is a very reliable counter which always works if u know how to utilize the ability correctly.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
5 km TIF radius effect vs 3km shockwave radius isnt a counter. Try to cover 2km during that effect being on.....
Not to mention, Naz, that a team will be hard-pressed to have enough PSW's in the first place to potentially counter a full team of TIF's is quite difficult as well.
Doable, but not easy.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
I'll break one of my own rules, just this one time. I usually try not to engage in too much conversation in this thread.
Take your fleet's best 10 PvPers.
Split them into 2 5 man teams and balance the teams for player skill - make them as even as possible.
TEAM A: Give this team 3 to 5 copies of TIF, 3 to 5 copies of 30s+GPG, 2 to 3 carriers with Yellowstones, SS DOFFs, etc. The worst of the worst this game has to offer. Maybe they even take 4 to 5 Sci captains.
TEAM B: They get none of those items, they can only bring standard counters. This team is designed using standard (no BS 1 or 2) tournament rules.
Ask yourself how "easy" it would be to for TEAM B to counter TEAM A's tactics with "PSW" and it's 3km radius against multi-use, chained and coordinated TIF/GPG.
Some items, powers and pets, denote a clear and distinct power advantage that is completely and massively lopsided.
That is the definition of something that is overpowered, as opposed to something that is just "an edge".
Answer yourself, and if you're willing this thread, on what you think the results of this match would be.
That -FS- team you guys defeated, even Hank mentioned very specifically that it also required the creative use of some items your fleet doesn't generally use.
Don't forget aux2id/APO make you immune to PSW which is more and more common as a counter to PSW /w TIF. At least that has been my experience in a few matches.
That leaves VM but there is no apparent icons to show who casted TIF.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Are you serious dude ????? this is a very inappropriate comparison and a very unrealistic representation of how tif would be hard to counter.
first of all in a normal premade vs premade match no real pvp team in the world is going to enter with 5 sci and 5 ttifs. secondly our conversation is dealing with tif only, i have never talked about how annoying ss doffs or yellowstones are, that is clear. a normal pvp team is usually composed of 3 sci and 2 tacs so they have at most 3 tifs available not 5.
so if u wanna have a match of 2 teams being at the same level of skill and having at most 3 tifs on the one side and 3 photonic shockwaves on the other side, most of these tifs are very likely to be cleared.
this scenario you have created is comparable to a pvp team who encounters a troll team with 5 sci and and lots of cheese of whom both of them are on the same skill level and the outcome of such a match would be more than obvious.
by the way ultimatum we havent encountered -fs- just one time but many many other times and the most remarkable match was when i entered with an alpha zero premnade arena to face an -fs- made. we only had 2 psw available and -fs- were able to use 3 tifs, during the whole match i didnt notice anything of a tif slowing down my movement because those 2 wells did a nice job they cleared all of them even with 1 psw several tifs.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
3 wells & 2 destroyers = 3 scis and 2 tac.
Anyway, can ALL parties keep this thread clear please.
oh all right ofc, i havent noticed your first message
generally the other points are quite crucial and should be fixed
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
I'm completely serious.
But since you asked, I'll redesign the scenario for you.
Take your fleet's best 10 PvPers.
Split them into 2 5 man teams and balance the teams for player skill - make them as even as possible.
TEAM A: Give this team 3 to 5 copies of TIF. The team is otherwise designed using No BS tournament rules 1, 2 or 4.*
TEAM B: This team follows no BS tournament rules 1, 2 or 4.* They cannot bring TIF.
Have TEAM A spend some time planning on the ways they will use, and protect their TIF from being countered.
Everyone focuses on the counters to TIF.
It's rare you see anyone acknowledge the ways to counter those counters.
Xtreme already gave you one, Aux to ID.
*I left out No BS #3 rules set as it was a unique deviation from the otherwise typical No BS set up.
kk, yeah that seems to be a more reliable scenario. if the team has spent much time in order to be able to defend its ability to use them as effective as possible tif will be difficult to counter same also counts of all the other abilities, when they are well-prepared to counter an opponent?s counter strategy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q57gDhb5ODk
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
1 hour after that match
some days after
IC beaming out when they realized they got no chance...only the brave Praxis stayd(outperforming his teammates anyways lol)
Hannibal learnd tho...they calld TIF cheese back then and beamd out...nowadays it's ok to use it...
There are several counters to it...Photonic Shockwave with doff,Tractor Beam repulsors,maybe just fly out of 5km with evasive..you guys should better complain about the ridiculous crits nowadays from romulans or that you didn't get your Chicken McNuggets from McDonalds^^
I also learnd something new in the past days....you can clear Graviton Pulse with ENG TEAM....wow...and i thought that cheese has no counter
Problem is, itm akes the game a rock paper scissors game.
VM so they ET and then GPG or GPG so they ET and then VM.
wait a second, the screenshot of these matches u have made:
i think you definetly strain the truth. the match one hour after and a few days later we werent even a full inner circle team and then you call that a match against ic lol. we were 4 guys and u were a 5-man-team actually.
In the second match a few days later i queued up myself with my alpha defiant which i havent used for decades and met in arena 3 of my fleeties randomly, i even wasnt on ts dude. as they suggested to warp out, i warped out aswell cuz it would make no sense to fight you with inferior numbers^^. i normally dont warp out, it doesnt matter how bad the fight goes, in this time it was an exception.
the match we have frapsed was an organized premade vs premade match, those u have posted were random arena matches and they are absolutely meaningless.
for instance we also defeated pandas in random arena matches when we entered with a full team and they had 4 of their guys, woooooooww thats absolutely no achievement
but if u like we can set up other premade matches when i return from holiday, it would be my pleasure to face u again^^
PS: i have asked you several times for a premade match and you guys refused it every time with no clear reason, so there is no reason why you say "we warped out when we had no chance."
regards hannibal
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
all good, just wanted to set right the truth.^^
the withdrawal of arena pvp is sometimes cruel
therefore atemporary substitution is needed xD
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
look at the scoreboard...it was 4 of us plus pug against 4 of you plus pug
but ye keep telling yourself that it was 4vs5^^
that's also complete nonsense...we met in the queue when you made that vid..there was nothing organized...
the fact that we were flying around with 3 escorts and 2 sci ships..with like no heals and 2 new players shows that...
you would guess people notice the difference between 1 escort and 4 sci ships and 3 escorts and 2 sci ships...
the match some days later showd what's really happening...you realized you have no chance....and decided to BEAM OUT after getting beaten 8:0..
only praxis stayed in...
you guys should beam out right at the start next time...so it looks as if you didn't lose^^