There is no problem with an occassional Cross-Faction Ship moving around...
It IS a Problem however if most viable End-Game Vessels are Non-Fed or Non-Kling Vessels...
I don't care that they make money out of it but they NEED to assure that the Federation has enough Federation Ship Classes that are viable in Endgame and the same for the Klingons.
I don't care that there is the occassional "Ambassador"-Ship around Earth from the Elachi, Roms, Spoonheads or whatever but I care when it's a gorram Fleet big enough for total planetary annihilation!
After reading this post, I decided to take a pen an note down what ships are warping into Sol while having dinner. I never payed much attention to whatever is lingering in the system, so I was kinda interested in the outcome.
Over the course of ~10 minutes, 105 ships warped in or spawned:
81 Starfleet ships (Odysseys (11), Defiants (8), Mirandas (6) and Vestas (6) had the largest share)
14 "Alien" ships (4 Jem'Hadar HC, 2 Bug Ships, 2 Elachi, 2 Tal Shiar, 1 Marauder, 1 Atrox, 2 Kumari)
8 Romulan ships (5 Scimitars, didn't note down the other 3)
2 Cell ships
I agree that if the conclusion is that making appropriate ships for all 3 classes is too expensive or difficult then the mistake was in making 3 factions in the first place.
There are fair expectations here that should be met.
By saturating the game with lockboxes they will soon kill the frenzy that comes with these releases. Imho they should be periodical and limited in time.
After reading this post, I decided to take a pen an note down what ships are warping into Sol while having dinner. I never payed much attention to whatever is lingering in the system, so I was kinda interested in the outcome.
Over the course of ~10 minutes, 105 ships warped in or spawned:
81 Starfleet ships (Odysseys (11), Defiants (8), Mirandas (6) and Vestas (6) had the largest share)
14 "Alien" ships (4 Jem'Hadar HC, 2 Bug Ships, 2 Elachi, 2 Tal Shiar, 1 Marauder, 1 Atrox, 2 Kumari)
8 Romulan ships (5 Scimitars, didn't note down the other 3)
2 Cell ships
I think he said "viable". Just counting how many ships you saw doesn't reflect that IMO.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I dunno, my old Fed and KDF ships are still very viable in end-game.
And even though my toons' main ships are faction-specific ships (many of them older ones that hold up relatively well even in PvP), they still love their alien ships.
And I don't give a rat's rear if other people want to fly alien ships. If they want to, I let them. Doesn't hurt my immersion one bit. :P
You see we aren't saying they should stop making them and of course some people will buy them, heck I've bought them all except the latest Elachi. Nobody said, I don't think, that they are going to leave if there are too many.
The key point is that of the future of the game. It has to invest in the IP more, the ships that we know and love from the shows must be viable endgame ships, and the Star Trek Universe should look recognisably like the Star Trek we all know, otherwise it is a ST game in name only.
A balance must be struck that maintains the integrity of the Star Trek experience whilst introducing new ships and exciting ideas that gain short term cash flow.
I guarantee that if you are trying to introduce a new ST fan to the game the first ship he is going to want to fly is not an Elachi, it's going to be a Galaxy or a B'rel or a Defiant. When he discovers these are useless at endgame (which is starting to look like a distinct possibility with power creep) he will probably not invest heavily in the game.
My Defiant is useless in Endgame? HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!:LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....ROFLcopter.
You SHOULD care about power creep. New lockbox ships make all previous ships obsolete, how does it feel when you know starfleet and KDF ships are a generation behind at least? You know the ships you care about are the worst possible option you can choose when picking a ship.
This misguided attitude is what is ruining immersion in sto and causing over-proliferation of non-faction ships.
Lockbox ships are not better, they are just different with a unique console and in somecases worse then fleet ship alternative. Most people aren't even giving the various fleet ships a chance even though they are competitive statwise, people just think ooh lockbox, it must be better.
Take the fleet assault cruiser for example, much cheaper and better then the Galor and D'Kora. More hull, and 1 more tac console, and 1 more romulan tac boff can be used on it then the galor.
Elachi escort sucks, stupid boff layout for an escort the universals arent really even universal, you almost have to use 1 as sci and 1 as tac. I would take a Fleet Patrol escort or fleet defiant over this any day, even if I could have the elachi escort for free.
Please stop thinking lockbox ships are better everyone, give more of the fleet ships a chance, you save money, may end up doing better with the right ship, and get to play a game that looks like star trek instead of random sci fi movie.
Most power creep is coming in the form of doffs, romulan boffs, and lockbox/lobi items that can be used on any ship.
I most definitely am not tired of the alien ships. They make for variety. I wouldn't want to fly my Dominion Heavy Escort Carrier exclusively, but I do like it for a change from time to time. I also do not believe the alien ships, consoles, and weapons detract from any part of the game. Not everyone is all hawt to own a Akira class Heavy Escort. And if flying a Galor class encourages them to play STO, then why is this a problem?
TBH, if we're going to restrict or frown upon some ships, regardless of whether or not they come from a lockbox, then how long is it until people turn on your favorite ship? Let people fly what they want. As long as they are playing STO and spending money on it, why should I care?
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
What I am sick of is how so many actual Star Trek ships from episode/movie suck in the game compared to ships that are not from a Star Trek episode/movie. I also am sick that their is only 1 C-Store tier 5 Star Trek Klingon ship. Would love a tier 5 K'Vort Class to be added to C-Store.
Thanks for this effort and I think it more or less proves the opening post in that the original question asked was "Are players tired of alien ships?"
From your snapshot it seems that they may well be. I have noticed the same thing recently and despite many lockbox ships being won they don't appear to be all that common. Cryptic need to realise the reason there are 81 Starfleet ships and only 2 Elachi ships in your quick sample is because people want to play in Starfleet ships (and KDF/Romulan of course).
So continually pumping out non ST type vessels for non existant factions is pointless. I wager they could make far more money if the prize for the lockbox was a fleet ship with additional functionality or perhaps a new faction specific but recognisable design.
Well I'm glad you know how much money Cryptic makes on lock boxes , I didnt know they were giving out that information
Thanks for this effort and I think it more or less proves the opening post in that the original question asked was "Are players tired of alien ships?"
From your snapshot it seems that they may well be. I have noticed the same thing recently and despite many lockbox ships being won they don't appear to be all that common. Cryptic need to realise the reason there are 81 Starfleet ships and only 2 Elachi ships in your quick sample is because people want to play in Starfleet ships(and KDF/Romulan of course).
So continually pumping out non ST type vessels for non existant factions is pointless. I wager they could make far more money if the prize for the lockbox was a fleet ship with additional functionality or perhaps a new faction specific but recognisable design.
The Galor is a recognisable ship from the shows and as such is not really an issue. Flying Jem'Hadar ships is pushing the limits of what makes sense and the Elachi ships are just nonsense. It's what's coming next that worries us.
As for turning on our favourite ships, well they have been doing that since day one, the Galaxy, the hero of TNG is a neutered and impotent vessel and as time goes by becomes even more so.
You should care because if in a year or two all a newcomer to STO will see is unrecognisable alien ships everywhere in what is supposed to be a Star Trek Universe, the newcomer will rightly be disappointed, sure he can still get his hero ships but he'll find that they are 5 years out of date compared to what will be offered at that time if nothing is changed.
"worries us."? I am not worried at all. And I'll make up my own mind about what I need to worry about in STO. You weren't there to offer advice and guidance at any of the previous significant moments in my life. Somehow, I managed to get by.
It is merely a game. A decent game. With flaws. But still just a game. I flat out refuse to treat any part of Star Trek as some sort of religion. I fervently agree with Bill Shatner when all those years ago he said, "Get a life!" From the strident tones of your posts all throughout these forums, I am getting the idea you have elevated STO to the major reason you continue to get up in the morning. Whatever will you do with yourself when the day they pull the plug shows up? And that day will arrive eventually.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
One thing I will say: I've lost track of the number of times I've tried to blow up team mates flying Tholian vessels in Azure Nebula runs. I'd prefer people to not fly the exact same ships as the enemies we're blowing up, generally :P
As for what I fly: faction specific only, pretty much. I accidentally got to own a Galor on one of my fed sci's, but hardly ever use it. If I get tired of the traditional saucer shapes I log into my KDF or Romulan characters. *shrug* There's plenty of diversity in the game, with 3 (2,5?) factions...
You want cryptic to stop making them, then people need to stop buying them....I mean we can call cryptic greedy till the cows come home, but if people were not buying them then they would have nothing to sell and move on to something else to sell.:)
Come on, that's the oldest argument ever.
People can only buy what's being offered.
If the best ships in the game are some weired alien ships, people will buy them.
If they would look like steamy dung piles, they would buy them, as long they got Battle Cloak, DHCs and a good BOFF/Console Layout.
It's Cryptic's job to keep the game a Star Trek game.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The key point is that of the future of the game. It has to invest in the IP more, the ships that we know and love from the shows must be viable endgame ships, and the Star Trek Universe should look recognisably like the Star Trek we all know, otherwise it is a ST game in name only.
If in a year or two the majority of ships seen in the game are the latest uber powerful and unknown alien races then people will not come, they will only bother with Star Trek Online if they see recognisable elements within it from the show and films they loved. The more Cryptic move away from that the less Trek fans will want to bother with it.
This is why Cryptic MUST update the older ships and introduce new faction aligned ships that are recognisable to a general ST audience.
This would require T5 versions of the Constitution and Enterprise classes.
I guarantee that if you are trying to introduce a new ST fan to the game the first ship he is going to want to fly is not an Elachi, it's going to be a Galaxy or a B'rel or a Defiant. When he discovers these are useless at endgame (which is starting to look like a distinct possibility with power creep) he will probably not invest heavily in the game.
I guarantee you that for the majority of the world's population the only ship they associate with Star Trek is the Constitution class. And the potential pool of future STO players does not include any dedicated Star Trek fans. The dedicated Star Trek fans have already tried STO and either are still playing or found the game lacking and left, never to return.
I'd like to see more exterior customization options for ships. Sure we can change nacelle style or hull style/material on some ships, but there are only so many federation styles so most ships still look very cookie cutter. I'd like to see exterior options....stuff we could mount on hull, on mount points or whatever, to distinguish ships more.
Space is a frictionless environment, and as the borg clearly demonstrated there is no need for ships to all have the same streamlined, clean-hull style. The only add ons I currently see for ships are borg related additions. let us have more.
And speaking of borg, when do I get my player-owned borg escort ship (aka the sphere) . Or at least a holo emitter sphere.
Space is a frictionless environment, and as the borg clearly demonstrated there is no need for ships to all have the same streamlined, clean-hull style. The only add ons I currently see for ships are borg related additions. let us have more.
...a couple of my friends love ST but say they don't have time for PC games let alone an MMO, but maybe in the future they will have time, at that point it's the hero ships they are going to want to fly not an Elachi escort.
which they can. they can fly just about anything they wish now either straight Fed'ish or weirdly ally'ish (their choice, never are you forced to fly an exotic ship in STO..'never' ) ..... and the memorable types are free via game story progression or easily available ( you start the game with a Miranda...dont get much more traditional than that) .
Everyone who starts this game as a newbie gets the Star Trek feel.... ships, missions, ect....all of it is standard trekky feeley.... it's a 'choice' to go exotic.
it's when you have been around a while and have quite a few levels under your belt, or 'choose' to spend real cash...that is when the exotic ships become available....as an 'option'.
nobody is forced to play an Elachi escort....it is their 'choice'.
.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Hmm not sure I agree there. Whilst I was born in 64 and remember the first reruns it was TNG that I loved the most. My kids love TNG and I am only now introducing them to TOS as I buy it on BD. The later movies mainly featured the Galaxy and the Sovereign.
Also there are plenty of people out there who are starting to discover ST for the first time thanks to the JJ movies (love em or hate em) and are now going back through the old shows and films, a friend of mine is really getting into it however he says Kirk and Co are fun but a bit too quirky for his tastes, he too prefers TNG and Voyager.
I would disagree if you think there are no ST fans left who have not tried this game, there must surely be many, a couple of my friends love ST but say they don't have time for PC games let alone an MMO, but maybe in the future they will have time, at that point it's the hero ships they are going to want to fly not an Elachi escort.
We're of the same generation, yet I realize that TNG was just Roddenberry's childish tantrum after Paramount pushed him to the side. Which is why he made Picard fly a Disney Cruise ship in space. Bring the kiddies.
I have always found TNG to be nothing but a shallow echo of True Trek. The real loss of Star Trek came when Roddenberry was forced to take his plan for the new TV series, Star Trek Phase II, and put it up on the silver screen as TMP. While TMP is one of my favorite Star Trek movies, with the action adventure Wrath of Khan as my second favorite, the decision to move the original cast to the cinema instead of the living room was ultimately Star Trek's doom.
I don't have any friends who are fans of TNG, DS9, or Voyager. None of us can stand that tripe; and we loathe JJ Trek.
Take two photos, one of the TOS Enterprise and one of the TNG Enterprise, and ask Joe Schmoes out on the street which one is Star Trek and see what you get for responses. Please don't be surprised when the overwhelming majority pick TOS.
Comments
After reading this post, I decided to take a pen an note down what ships are warping into Sol while having dinner. I never payed much attention to whatever is lingering in the system, so I was kinda interested in the outcome.
Over the course of ~10 minutes, 105 ships warped in or spawned:
81 Starfleet ships (Odysseys (11), Defiants (8), Mirandas (6) and Vestas (6) had the largest share)
14 "Alien" ships (4 Jem'Hadar HC, 2 Bug Ships, 2 Elachi, 2 Tal Shiar, 1 Marauder, 1 Atrox, 2 Kumari)
8 Romulan ships (5 Scimitars, didn't note down the other 3)
2 Cell ships
There are fair expectations here that should be met.
By saturating the game with lockboxes they will soon kill the frenzy that comes with these releases. Imho they should be periodical and limited in time.
I think he said "viable". Just counting how many ships you saw doesn't reflect that IMO.
And even though my toons' main ships are faction-specific ships (many of them older ones that hold up relatively well even in PvP), they still love their alien ships.
And I don't give a rat's rear if other people want to fly alien ships. If they want to, I let them. Doesn't hurt my immersion one bit. :P
My Defiant is useless in Endgame? HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!:LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....ROFLcopter.
This misguided attitude is what is ruining immersion in sto and causing over-proliferation of non-faction ships.
Lockbox ships are not better, they are just different with a unique console and in somecases worse then fleet ship alternative. Most people aren't even giving the various fleet ships a chance even though they are competitive statwise, people just think ooh lockbox, it must be better.
Take the fleet assault cruiser for example, much cheaper and better then the Galor and D'Kora. More hull, and 1 more tac console, and 1 more romulan tac boff can be used on it then the galor.
Elachi escort sucks, stupid boff layout for an escort the universals arent really even universal, you almost have to use 1 as sci and 1 as tac. I would take a Fleet Patrol escort or fleet defiant over this any day, even if I could have the elachi escort for free.
Please stop thinking lockbox ships are better everyone, give more of the fleet ships a chance, you save money, may end up doing better with the right ship, and get to play a game that looks like star trek instead of random sci fi movie.
Most power creep is coming in the form of doffs, romulan boffs, and lockbox/lobi items that can be used on any ship.
TBH, if we're going to restrict or frown upon some ships, regardless of whether or not they come from a lockbox, then how long is it until people turn on your favorite ship? Let people fly what they want. As long as they are playing STO and spending money on it, why should I care?
Well I'm glad you know how much money Cryptic makes on lock boxes , I didnt know they were giving out that information
I wager you missed my point
It is merely a game. A decent game. With flaws. But still just a game. I flat out refuse to treat any part of Star Trek as some sort of religion. I fervently agree with Bill Shatner when all those years ago he said, "Get a life!" From the strident tones of your posts all throughout these forums, I am getting the idea you have elevated STO to the major reason you continue to get up in the morning. Whatever will you do with yourself when the day they pull the plug shows up? And that day will arrive eventually.
As for what I fly: faction specific only, pretty much. I accidentally got to own a Galor on one of my fed sci's, but hardly ever use it. If I get tired of the traditional saucer shapes I log into my KDF or Romulan characters. *shrug* There's plenty of diversity in the game, with 3 (2,5?) factions...
People can only buy what's being offered.
If the best ships in the game are some weired alien ships, people will buy them.
If they would look like steamy dung piles, they would buy them, as long they got Battle Cloak, DHCs and a good BOFF/Console Layout.
It's Cryptic's job to keep the game a Star Trek game.
Until then, still Trekking along!
Space is a frictionless environment, and as the borg clearly demonstrated there is no need for ships to all have the same streamlined, clean-hull style. The only add ons I currently see for ships are borg related additions. let us have more.
And speaking of borg, when do I get my player-owned borg escort ship (aka the sphere)
Rodenberry's made four rules for ship design - http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm
If Cryptic followed these rules, then there are only so many ways to change the rest of the ship without it looking similar enough to another ship.
rule #1 is already non-relevant with the USS Kelvin...
so yeah....pretty sure Gene isnt in control of the IP anymore.....
which is a good thing IMO.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
which they can. they can fly just about anything they wish now either straight Fed'ish or weirdly ally'ish (their choice, never are you forced to fly an exotic ship in STO..'never' ) ..... and the memorable types are free via game story progression or easily available ( you start the game with a Miranda...dont get much more traditional than that) .
Everyone who starts this game as a newbie gets the Star Trek feel.... ships, missions, ect....all of it is standard trekky feeley.... it's a 'choice' to go exotic.
it's when you have been around a while and have quite a few levels under your belt, or 'choose' to spend real cash...that is when the exotic ships become available....as an 'option'.
nobody is forced to play an Elachi escort....it is their 'choice'.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I have always found TNG to be nothing but a shallow echo of True Trek. The real loss of Star Trek came when Roddenberry was forced to take his plan for the new TV series, Star Trek Phase II, and put it up on the silver screen as TMP. While TMP is one of my favorite Star Trek movies, with the action adventure Wrath of Khan as my second favorite, the decision to move the original cast to the cinema instead of the living room was ultimately Star Trek's doom.
I don't have any friends who are fans of TNG, DS9, or Voyager. None of us can stand that tripe; and we loathe JJ Trek.
Take two photos, one of the TOS Enterprise and one of the TNG Enterprise, and ask Joe Schmoes out on the street which one is Star Trek and see what you get for responses. Please don't be surprised when the overwhelming majority pick TOS.